@Berean,

Proverbs 30 does?!?!?

We’ve been over this passage and the answer is G-d is the only who has done all of these things; however the question is rhetorical and obviously doesn’t need and answer. Even Agur, who claims to be the dumbest of the dumb, knows this…and you don’t??!?

“Who has ascended into heaven, and then…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

Was it too much to read?

Soooooooo, you can’t prove the Jesus is The Messiah! I understand, I can’t make you see what you don’t want to see; I can only present it. The reality is, it’s up to you to make the choice and I can attest it’s a hard one…for months I kept what I was finding to myself. Also, you would spend less time lear…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

You keep saying “Prove Jesus is the Messiah” and then narrowing that demand to one point: “He has no biological father, therefore his lineage cannot be traced, therefore he cannot be the Messiah.”

It isn’t just a “single point” where the Jesus fails; this is the beginning point. If the Jesus cannot/does not pass this, he ISN’T The Mes…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

In NONE of what your wrote did you prove the Jesus is The Messiah! I wrote on how the Jesus couldn’t be The Messiah starting with the birth narrative and you respond with criticism of what the Tanakh says, calling what I wrote assumptions; except what would have been the understanding of procreation in the time of Moses? Keep r…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

Jesus did not have a biological father.

Then we have a problem! The word for descendant used in the passages concerning David’s throne is “zera”, which means to produce after one’s own kind – making it biological. Did you not read Num 1:2, 18, 2:2, 32; Ezra 2:59? How is tribal lineage determined going all the way back to Moses? You sai…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

I didn’t ask about messianic references, as we’ll most likely agree on a fair number of them; I asked to PROVE the Jesus IS the Messiah and to begin with the birth narrative.

Who is the Jesus’ biological father and does this fit with what G-d said concerning tribal lineage and sons being counted with their fathers house (Num 1:2, 18,…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

Prove the Jesus is the Messiah! If that cannot be established, everything thing we are talking about is a waste of time. If the Jesus isn’t the Messiah, who cares what the unknown writer of Hebrews says or claims the Jesus is, or how it aligns or doesn’t align with the Tanakh, or if it fits a Messianic prophecy or not.

This takes us…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

Point 1. I don’t disagree with at all; upon further study, Davidic kingship can be applied to mean Messianic. Now we roll back to my original question, is the Jesus the true Messiah and can this be applied to him.

Point 2. I agree with what you wrote, you articulated it better than I did; the main idea of what I said is that this c…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

I can’t believe I allowed you suck me into this rabbit hole and away from what was originally said, stop wasting time; does Hebrews chapter one claim all that is quoted from the Tanakh is applied to the Jesus or not? If yes, then explain and support it with the Tanakh, not with the writings and musing of man; if no, then rip the b…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

In response to post 948112

No, I’m reading the words written and the words written, don’t match…can’t have the 60+ different interpretations in front of me at all times. I’m comparing your translation of choice (NASB) to the Jewish Study Bible. If you need to justify your belief by using a translation that has fallen into obscuri…[Read more]

@Keith,

Desire truth. Psalm 45:7 did not call Jesus Elohim, It stated that he has an Elohim( God)

“You love justice and hate evil. For this reason God, your God has anointed you with the oil of joy, elevating you above your companions.”

Who is the “you” that is being anointed? The Jesus??? If so, you’re going have to tell me when the Jesus is…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

In response to post 948115, would you like some cheese with your whine?

When you answer every question I ask, then you’ll have grounds to stand on to lecture me! Besides, does reading and comprehension fail you? I originally stated “I initially started a long response to what you said, but abandoned it.” What part of that do you N…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

I initially started a long response to what you said, but abandoned it. I will say this in response to what you wrote, in none of your response did you address the core issue; nothing written in Hebrews chapter one is about the Jesus! It’s a twisting of the Hebrew scripture to fit the Jesus.

When have you looked into the Jewish…[Read more]

@ lightenup,

You understand Psalm 102 perfectly; why are you corrupting the meaning of it by applying it to the Jesus? It seems you are using the Hebrews 1:10-12 passage to claim G-d of the Tanakh and the Jesus of the NT are the same. To unpack what is being said in this chapter one needs to begin in verse 5, where this dialog begins? G-d is…[Read more]

@Berean,

Wow what an intellectual response; you have made me more aware of who the jesus is…loads of sarcasm!

I explained the passage, how come you can’t give your thoughts on it? Repeating the words of the passages DOES NOT EXPLAIN HOW THE PASSAGE IS A REFERENCE TO THE jESUS!!!! How do you NOT understand that?!? Why does the “christian” h…[Read more]

@Berean,

Not Proverbs 30…AGAIN!!!

Have you not read the passage with comprehension? Are we really using “pointy fingers” without explaining what you’re talking about?!!!?

Reading this passage we start with Agur speaking with two others and basically calls himself stupid. He then asks them four rhetorical questions; who has gone to heaven and…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

I guess you kind of answered the question of who or what will be rolled up; but who or what is the “they”? If it’s simply heaven and earth as the Psalm says, what is the writer of Hebrews getting at? The Psalm is speaking of G-d lasting longer than HIS creation as HE is eternal AND what does this have to do with the Jesus?

@ lightenup,

You didn’t answer the question; who or what will be folded up like a garment and be changed?

How can YHWY be both the Father and the son (aka lord)? Keith is onto something…

@Lightenup,

The theos of John 1:1b identifies the theos of John 1:1c as the YHWH who laid the foundation of the world and the heavens were the work of His hands and not only that but that as YHWH, this theos who is the Son, will at a future time, fold them up like a garment and they will be changed in Hebrews 1:10-12.
Amazing!

The Jesus is G-d of…[Read more]

@Keith,

Its called justice– A perfect mortal man sinned and lost a good standing with God for all his descendants.

Adam was punished for his sin, but did G-d reject him for it? NO!!

Justice = A perfect mortal man lived a sinless existence, yet paid in full the wages of sin he did not owe= the ransom sacrifice.

Are you saying the Jesus lived a…[Read more]