@ Berean,

You take off on a long dissertation on the Talmud and Pharisees and miss what I actually said. The quoting was only to show what the Jews believe.

Please explain Deut 18:15,18 and how we have a preexistent Christ.

Look up Hellenism, this thinking was infiltrating the early church.

@ Proclaimer,

Clarity of a statement you made in an earlier post (#942749) about how the trinity doctrine and preexistence doctrine are not mutually exclusive. This means both are truth; yet you reject the one and except the other. Was this a typo?

I will assert both doctrines are false teachings, because this wasn’t the Jewish belief. If it w…[Read more]

@ Proclaimer,

Please explain what each of these verses you sited mean and how they relate to a preexisting son in heaven at creation:

Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and t…[Read more]

@ Carmel,

Again I ask you, what faith do you associate with and why do you fear sharing it?

“GOD  WHO IS ETERNAL, HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS SATANIC PHYSICAL MORTAL WORLD…”

Seriously!! The God I serve is active all around me.

“ALL WOMEN WERE SATAN’S PROPERTY THROUGH EVE’S SIN AS SHE SINNED FIRST AND SATAN FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME OCCUPIED H…[Read more]

@ Gene,

I haven’t stopped posting; I am simply buried in the happenings of life, so certain things become less of a priority. I will admit, to a point, the futility of posting my thoughts and responding to others; but I haven’t dusted my feet off yet.

I come from a perspective that most do not. I believed in the trinity, I believed in the…[Read more]

@ Berean,

JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

Please refer to the following link and read again and focus on the meat of what I said. The “us/our” of Gen 1:26; theologians “universally admitted” Jesus wasn’t the plural to whom God was speaking to. So who would be left for God to speak with? The…[Read more]

@ Proclaimer,

#10 doesn’t make sense, Jesus was in heaven at creation as God’s son, came to earth and became a man, only to return to heaven as the son again? Please clarify.

@ Proclaimer,

What does it mean Christ “emptied himself”?

Emptied himself of what?

@ Proclaimer,

What does it mean Christ existed in the form of God?

@ Proclaimer,

Did Jesus ever say he was the “word” or “the word”?

Please provide scriptural examples.

@ Berean,

Let’s go back to Genesis 1:26, the “us” and “our” in the creation of man. Your belief tells you it’s Jesus, the Jews understood it was the heavenly hosts to whom God was speaking. Who’s correct, you or the Jews? You reject the idea the God of the universe would dare speak to his heavenly creation and assert by speaking to them HE was…[Read more]

@ Proclaimer,

For me there is only a right and wrong, no maybe; it’s black and white, no gray; pick a side of the fence, can’t exist on both sides at the same time nor straddle it; and there is no middle of the road. So the truth will never be in the middle. If you want to call it “extreme”, so be it; I call it a truth or a lie.

Neither example…[Read more]

@ Berean,

“The real “nuts and bolts” of this entire conversation comes down to whether or not we understand scripture from a Jewish or a Nicean perspective.”

Which perspective are you using to understand scripture? The Adventists “belief” page mimics the Nicean Creed, case and point. Then to use a blanket statement of those who don’t believe the…[Read more]

@ Proclaimer,

This entire conversation is a circle, it’s the same argument for the last 20 years. One side pitted against the other and both sides having the mindset of “I’m right and your wrong.” Always repeating the same thing. Either Christ preexisted or he didn’t; one belief is wrong and the other correct, both can’t be right.

The real “nuts…[Read more]

@ Camel and Gene,

Why are we making this so difficult? There is NOTHING spiritual about the John 14:24. The whole summation of what Christ is teaching are the words which he is speaking; These words he speaks, come from one source; so grammatically the singular can be used – “the word of God”. So we are going to beat each other up over gramm…[Read more]

@ Berean,

This is almost painful.

What I said was Rev 19:13 allusions back to Isa 63:2,3 – meaning it references back to, there’s a connection.

How can one single out a portion of a verse and use that for the basis of their understanding, if only a small portion is looked at (copy/paste theology) how can one see the wider picture? Now y…[Read more]

@Berean,

You are picking and choosing verses or parts of verses to support your religion. It’s like reading every other paragraph or starting in the middle of a book. You cannot possible hope to understand the story. We cannot use a “copy/paste” theology to understand what scripture is telling us! Thus your focus on a single part of a verse and s…[Read more]

@Berean,

We need to backup this bus, are you really saying Isa 63:2,3 is a reference to Jesus’ ministry!??!!?!? Read verse 1, who is being judge here? Edom is…again!! Who is Edom? Edom is Esau (Gen 36:8), the nation of Edom is from Esau, Esau is Jacob’s brother, the son of Isaac. If this reference of God’s vengeance on Edom is speaking of Chris…[Read more]

@ Berean,

You may disagree with my assertion of whom is being spoken of, but looking at the verse prior “…He has names written and a name written which no one knows but he himself.” (WEB) Most translations do not have “has names written”; however, I find this interesting that it is inserted here. Who is known by many names? God or Jesus?…[Read more]

@ Berean,

Singing of John 1:1-14 doesn’t change the meaning of what is written.

Rev 1:1 – not sure where you are going with this.

Rev 19:13 – are we understanding this correctly, YOU added Jesus in parentheses to emphasis the “he” is “Jesus”. This verse allusions back to Isaiah 63:2,3 and speaks of God’s day of vengeance. So who is it really be…[Read more]