Kathi,In your contribution I cannot understand what it is you say is easier to understand – is it related youth thread topic.Ok, just give me a short summary of what it is it said to you concerning the nature and personage of Angels.Kar, it is right that you say there are greater things to life than struggling over interpretation, there is still…[Read more]

Kathi,You have a very FERTILE imagination…(perhaps there is a link there!)It was good dialoguing with you but I must leave and get to bed.

Kathi,Remember that when Jesus was on earth he was EXACTLY man – but sinless.Jesus said that ALL THE THINGS HE DID Others could do – IF THEY HAD FAITH – Jesus didn't do anything that another of Mankind couldn't have done.When the Jews accused him of blasphemy for forgiving Sin (Leading to false belief that he is God) what did Jesus reply? Did…[Read more]

Kathi,Yes, I thought that verse would be what you would post…This is what I am trying to show across the forum: The verse refers to the RISEN CHRIST – for God gave him the POWER AND AUTHORITY to BE HIS Exact Radiance to uphold all things by it.Read the verses without PREJUDICE:God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many…[Read more]

Kathi,The great Confusion is because people started questioning the ILL-LOGIC of the Creed – IT NEVER MADE SENSE except to those who had to LIVE by it or else DIE BY IT.Even today – WJ knows he is badly wrong but HAS to keep believing in himself because it is his livelyhood…same as my friends who run churches – It's their Job and mainstream…[Read more]

Kathi,Was not the Creed force fitted and ratified by the Romans – The ABOMINATION (Standing where it should not) – The very Enemies of God and Christ?

Kathi,you say “and then was begotten…possibly begotten by the Father's word, not necessarily through some labor and delivery process.”but earlier you said “I don't believe that God willed a Son into existence with His thoughts.”Word and thought are the same to God (God does not think what he does not say – unlike humans) so you are contradicting…[Read more]

Kathi,What Scripture verse says that Jesus has the EXACT NATURE as his Father?An d what is “ETERNAL NATURE” (Eternal is a State – Nature is Feature/Characteristic. For instance: You can't 'SEE' that the Nature of that someone is ETERNAL)

Kathi,The Creed is MANMADE… And you know that it has been messed around with over time …How can they be “Co-Eternal” if one was “BEGOTTEN”.Kathi, explain to me what “BEGOTTEN” means in this context, to you.And explain how Jesus is “ETERNALLY BEGOTTEN” (What on earth or in Heaven does that means anyway…!) if he DIED…!!!

Point of Order:No place in JESUS' TEACHING was there mention of Government… Jesus himself did not teach concerning Government but that it was Prophesied about him…Jesus died in Sin ( taking on the Sins of the whole human race) – yet he himself did not sin.Just a point of order – not a dramatic slam.

kathi,I know people say “Mary gave birth to THE SON OF GOD” – is this a corruption of your idea or is your idea a corruption of their idea?Sonship in Spiritual terms is nothing to do with PROCREATION – because Spirits do not Procreate.Spirits CREATE – but do not PROCREATE – so Sonship is not about a personal offspring (a Son) it is about DOING…[Read more]

Kathi,Even the Trinitarians (as exampled by WJ and Trinis are by far the largest group of “Eternal Son” believers) do not believe that Jesus was Begotten before time.Until i heard you saying what you are trying to say hear i'd never (thought provokingly) heard of this idea…Kathi, unless i have been placing my head in the sand can you tell which…[Read more]

Quote (seekingtruth @ April 19 2011,17:19)Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2011,11:30)Quote (seekingtruth @ April 18 2011,09:47)I believe the reason that there is so much dis-agreement is akin to the story of the “blind men and an elephant”, we are all discussing something we cannot see from what we perceive of it through limited information on…[Read more]

Its hard to do in a written manner – in real – round a table – there would just be a “shhush – yeah yeah -we know – we know – lets get back to the topic at hand …”

Hi Irene,I understand but if we pursue it then this is how a thread gets quickly off-topic. I know – and knew – exactly what Keith's alto-issue was but I am diverting it back to the topic of the thread.I do understand both sides – can you see that I'm trying to keep the topic “on-topic”…

Just as a point of minor discussion:What does this verse say: “1Cr 15:47 The first man of the earth, earthy: the second man the Lord from heaven.”In my discussion with Mikeboll I pointed out a style of language that preEmpts events such as Jesus being “The Begotten Son” before he was raised up.This verse states that “The Second Man” IS “The…[Read more]

Wispring,Jesus is talking of Paradise Earth – The fulfilment of God's Plan – the word that went of God's mouth that will not return to him until it is fulfilled.Jesus is able to be in Heaven as Spirit – and on Earth with a recogniseable Body – With the Sacrificial holes in his hands and feet – this is not a blemish but as an everlasting symbol of…[Read more]

Kathi,There seems to be a secondary “Poll” in this thread – and that is “hands up everyone who thinks Kathi should drop her idea of Jesus INSIDE GOD”?Kathi, you can still hold your idea – just not foist in on us for we cannot hold it as any kind of truth or reality. You thought you had an idea – we all do – but there comes a time when you must see…[Read more]

Kathi,Thanks for the understanding and the re-direction.But frankly – No, it does not make any better sense seeing that “Biological Father” is a “Concept”. God would not need to Conceive in the “BODY” but only in Mind and thought (Shhh..Don't let Gene see this idea …)To soften the blow I think you can make a reasonable claim for Father/Son…[Read more]

Irene,I don't believe this was the point Keith was making.We are discussing the thread topic that Kathi set.Kathi is asking if when does a biological father become a biological father – and we agree that it is at conception.We are waiting to see what kathi has to say about her thread topic.