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[Irene]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 20 2008,03:08)

Irene…..what's so important about John 1:1, is trinitarians as well as preexistences can not find any other scripture that shows were Jesus is said to specifically preexist at all so they all uses John to try to get across they point, because if they can get people to see Jesus as the Word John is speaking of they both have a specific scripture to prove there points, and with out transposing the word written in John they have (NO) SPECIFIC Text that says Jesus preexisted. That why John 1:1 is the most contested scripture in the bible by scholars and Bible teachers. Peace to you and yours……….gene

Did you even read my last post? I did give clear scriptures that show the preexsisting of Jesus.
Thats all I am so tired of this, when people just ignore things.
Peace and Love Irene
P.S. thats it for me.

[Irene]

Mandy thank you for joining me in Song. God is so good and greatly to be praised.
Love Irene

[Irene]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,03:19)

Jesus called his FATHER God. Jesus never called himself God. Jesus never called the Spirit God. Why believe the Trinity?

Good question, which I have asked our Son in so many words, but the God of this world has blinded them.
When one sees all it seems so clear, but to them it is not.
t8 is right in His assessment. The Father is above all Ephesians 4:6.
Peace and Love Irene

[Irene]

GOD OF OUR FATHERS
1 God of our Fathers, whose almighty hand
Leads forth in beauty all the starry band.
Of shinning worlds through splendor in the skies,
Our grateful songs, before Thy throne arise.

2 Thy love divine hath led us in the past
In this free land by Thee our lot is cast.
Thy Word our law Thy paths Thy chosen way.

3 From wars alarms, from deadly pestilence,
Be Thy strong arm our ever sure defense.
Thy true religion, in our hearts increase.
Thy bounteous goodness nourish us in peace.

Peace and Love Irene

[Irene]

THE LORD BLESS YOU AND KP YOU
The Lord bless you and keep you
The Lord lift His countenance upon you
and give you peace.
The Lord make His face shine upon you
And be gracious to you, be gracious.
The Lord be gracious to you.
Amen, and Amen

Peace and Love Irene

[Irene]

Hi Samual

These four beasts in Dan. 7:3, are in fact the same four kingdoms as in the statue of metals, Dan. 2:32-33.
Yes, verse 17 does explains it, what other four beasts are there except the four beasts from
verses 4-7? They are the four empires starting with,
Babylon, head of gold and the lion.
Medo-Persia, arms and chest of silver and the bear.
Greece, belly and thigh of bronze and the leopard.
Rome, legs of iron and the great and terrible beast.
They are all the same kingdoms, arise out of the earth simply means, from among the people. People make up nations.
Verse 18 is speaking of the time when Christ will rule this earth with all his saints, just as you read in Dan. 2:44, God's kingdom will stand forever.
The little horn did make war with the saints, read about the history of the Catholic Church, how they persecuted, tortured and killed all that would not except their doctrine. The pope was no different than any other worldly ruler, he wanted to rule the world like the Romans did, that is why he is called the image, only he tried it with deceit and with the superstition of the people, making them believe he had the power of God.
God said he would rule for 1260 years, verse 25.
It is not the beasts that are wearing down the saints, it is this little horn, the pope.

Georg

PS. check out Google “the popes inquisition”

[Irene]

Hi 942767

Dan. 11:29 “At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter”.

“HE”, is the king of the north. The appointed time was in 1789 when Napoleon invaded Egypt.
The former was in B.C.30 when Cleopatra, Queen of Egypt, with Mark Anthony, stood up against Rome. When their army was defeated, they both committed suicide.
The latter was in A.D.269, Zenobia, Queen of Egypt and a decadent of Cleopatra, rebelled against Rome, and was defeated as well.
Napoleons invasion was unsuccessful because of the ships of Chittim, Cyprus.

Blessings to you

Georg

[Irene]

Hi 942767

True, Syria is north of Egypt, and they had many skirmishes between each other, but Macedon is by far the most northern kingdom. When Rome invaded Macedon in B.C.149, Rome took on the biblical title, King of the north.

[Irene]

Mandy! I really do wish too that we would all be united in the word of God, but I also have come to the conclusion that it is almost impossible. I really had a hard couple of days. First with our Son on Sunday, He believes in the trinity. He and Georg got into discussing the trinity. If God does not show a person, we cant do so, that I have said before, but I too try and try again. So has Georg. We Love each other in spite of it, tho. And so maybe that is what we have to do here also. I have fallen short of it, I must confess again, hopefully this is the last time for me. I will put this on my prayer list. May God have mercy on me.(us)
Peace and Love Irene

[Irene]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 19 2008,07:34)

come on in you simple ones come and rest your weary bones we''ll look after your book and compass while you rest the way is very hard on knees, your feet now must need ease we've been there and we know it's hard to struggle on in pain so we've been thinking and come up with another easier plan you'd been misled you need to walk, put your feet up float away just lie down on this wheeled bed, that's a magic carpet spread take a sip of this sleeping draught tincture of universalism daft when you wake up you'll be there, time and energy to spare but when i looked around the room, a mauseleum full of tombs full of unaware dead and dying men, anaesthetised, bewitched i turned away instead and putting faith in what the master said though it seems hard to hear, let the dead bury their own dead

Nick I like the beginning of this Poem.
I been there and we know it is hard to struggle on in pain. What comes to mind is the ” Footprint in the sand.” I very seldom tell of all my pain, but I do have it every day, and I do struggle with it.
Some days are like Jesus is lifting me up and I have no feet at all, even tho I am walking, in the air. Other days I cry out to God. And He shows me beauty in His creation. How wonderful in all the earth, Lord O Lord is Thy Name, call upon the Lord and He will hear you.
70 years on this planet is it enough, have I learned enough? Or do I have still Pride or ???
Hear me O Lord……………………….
Peace and Love Irene

[Irene]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 19 2008,07:34)

come on in you simple ones come and rest your weary bones we''ll look after your book and compass while you rest the way is very hard on knees, your feet now must need ease we've been there and we know it's hard to struggle on in pain so we've been thinking and come up with another easier plan you'd been misled you need to walk, put your feet up float away just lie down on this wheeled bed, that's a magic carpet spread take a sip of this sleeping draught tincture of universalism daft when you wake up you'll be there, time and energy to spare but when i looked around the room, a mauseleum full of tombs full of unaware dead and dying men, anaesthetised, bewitched i turned away instead and putting faith in what the master said though it seems hard to hear, let the dead bury their own dead

Nick I like the beginning of this Poem.
I been there and we know it is hard to struggle on in pain. What comes to mind is the ” Footprint in the sand.” I very seldom tell of all my pain, but I do have it every day, and I do struggle with it.
Some days are like Jesus is lifting me up and I have no feet at all, even tho I am walking, in the air. Other days I cry out to God. And He shows me beauty in His creation. How wonderful in all the earth, Lord O Lord is Thy Name, call upon the Lord and He will hear you.
70 years on this planet is it enough, have I learned enough? Or do I have still Pride or ???
Hear me O Lord……………………….
Peace and Love Irene

[Irene]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 19 2008,09:10)

Quote (Irene @ Aug. 18 2008,16:06) Hi 942767 Mat. 24:15 is speaking of Antichrist, who through his false gospel, would destroy the truth about Christs sacrifice. I would not say it was just prior to the holocaust, since this abomination has been practiced since the third Century. And yes, Mat. 24:21,22 are referring to the holocaust. Mat. 24:29 is a prophecy yet to be fulfilled, and when you see the events taken place in Israel, you should know it is very near. It will be the third and final tribulation for the Israelites, A.D. 70 being the first. Mat. 24:30 is in fact the beginning of the millennium. Mat. 24:31 has already happened, Christ is not coming for his church, he is bringing her with him. The tribulation is for the Israelites, the rest of the world will feel God's wrath. Georg OK Brother Georg: Thanks for sharing your understanding of this event with me.   We disagree so let's pray that God will show us what is the truth since either you or I must be wrong in our interpretation of these scriptures. God Bless

I like that idea, Love and Peace Irene
don't tell Georg, HHHHHHHaaaaaaaaaaa

[Irene]

Ephesians 2:8 tells us this
” For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourself, it is a free gift of God,
verse 9 not of works lest anyone should boast.
But when we do Sin and I believe all still do, we have a Mediator Jesus Christ so we can go in front of the Throne of God and ask for forgiveness of our Sins. And God will be quick to forgive them.
Can we still loose our Salvation, I think we can. IMO
Peace and Love Irene

[Irene]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 19 2008,09:27)

Quote (Irene @ Aug. 19 2008,09:23) Now let me get in here. First I do believe that Jesus as the Word God was there in the beginning with Father God. But I see it as God being a tittle or a Family Name. Question did the Word have a beginning or was He always there with Father God? Here we have to go to other scripture to find this out. Col. 1:15 I hope that you W.J. and Mandy read this with an open mind. Col. 1:15 ” He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION.” Verse 16 ” For by Him all things were created…………… verse 17 ” And He was before all things and in Him all things consist.” cerse 18 I ratherfind it interesting, because it shows us that He was first in all. So that He will have preeminence, meaning first to be born and first to be resurrected from the dead. Rev. 3:14 “..These says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.”  I find this verse also very important because it tells you that He indeed the Firstborn of all creation. Then when you go to Proverbs 8: 22-30  I love these verses especailly if you take it out of the James Moffat translation of the Bible. verse 22 ” The eternal Irene You have posted this a milllion times and we have read it and it is ambiguous. Firstborn does not necessarily mean the first to be born. The context of Colossians 1 shows this to be true for it also says he is the firstborn from the dead and we know Christ was not the first to rise from the dead. Paul used the same word in the context which simply means preeminence. WJ

That is upsolutley bull. Look it up in the Dictonary. And Christ was the first that ever was resurrected and became a Spirit being.
You telling me that I have put this up a million times, look in the mirrow about your trinity believe.
The scriptures are not ambiguous they are clear cut, only to those that don't want to even look at them it is.
Some are jsut blind, that is all. I really mainly wrote all of this down for You Mandy.
You know I don't get angry to often, but you have just done so, thank you.

[Irene]

Now let me get in here.
First I do believe that Jesus as the Word God was there in the beginning with Father God. But I see it as God being a tittle or a Family Name. Question did the Word have a beginning or was He always there with Father God? Here we have to go to other scripture to find this out.
Col. 1:15 I hope that you W.J. and Mandy read this with an open mind.
Col. 1:15 ” He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRSTBORN OF ALL CREATION.”
Verse 16 ” For by Him all things were created……………
verse 17 ” And He was before all things and in Him all things consist.”
cerse 18 I ratherfind it interesting, because it shows us that He was first in all. So that He will have preeminence, meaning first to be born and first to be resurrected from the dead.

Rev. 3:14 “..These says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.”  I find this verse also very important because it tells you that He indeed the Firstborn of all creation.

Then when you go to Proverbs 8: 22-30  I love these verses especailly if you take it out of the James Moffat translation of the Bible.
verse 22 ” The eternal formes me first of His creation, first of all His works in days of old.”
verse 23 ” I was fashioned in the earliest ages, from the very first when earth began.”

Please listen what it says

verse 24 I WAS BORN WHEN THERE WAS NO ABYSSES, WHEN THERE WERE NO FOUNTAINS OF WATER.”

verse 25 “e're He sank the basis of the Mountains, e're the hills exsisted, I WAS BORN.'

verse 26 ” when earth and fields were not created, nor the very clouds of the world.”

verse 27 ” When He set the heavens up, I WAS THERE, where He drew the Vaults o're the abyss.”

verse 28 ” when He made the clouds firm overhead, when He fixed the fountains of the deep.”

verse 29 ” When He set the bounderies of the sea, when He layed foundation of the earth.”

verse 30 “I WAS THERE WITH HIM THEN, HIS FOSTER CHILD, I was His delight day after day, playing in His presence constantly.

This is so exciting to me to see all of this.

Peace and Love Irene

[Irene]

PRAISING GOD EVERY DAY IS MY INTENTION HERE,
WHETHER SOME OF MY BRETHREN WILL JOIN ME?
I CERTAINLEY WOULD REJOICE IN THAT, AND SO WOULD GOD, I AM SURE OF THAT.
A WISE MAN SAID A LONG TIME AGO, AND I SAID THIS BEFORE, SINGING IS PRAYING TWICED.
I HEARD MY HUSBAND SAY SO MANY TIMES, THAT HE CAN'T SING, BUT WHEN HE OPENS HIS MOUTH
A NICE SOUND COMES OUT.
MAKING A JOYFUL NOICE TO THE LORD OUR GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST IS A MUST, IN MY EYES.
IF YOU AGREE COME AND JOIN ME.
IRENE

[Irene]

PRAISING GOD EVERY DAY IS MY INTENTION HERE,
WHETHER SOME OF MY BRETHREN WILL JOIN ME?
I CERTAINLEY WOULD REJOICE IN THAT, AND SO WOULD GOD, I AM SURE OF THAT.
A WISE MAN SAID A LONG TIME AGO, AND I SAID THIS BEFORE, SINGING IS PRAYING TWICED.
I HEARD MY HUSBAND SAY SO MANY TIMES, THAT HE CAN'T SING, BUT WHEN HE OPENS HIS MOUTH
A NICE SOUND COMES OUT.
MAKING A JOYFUL NOICE TO THE LORD OUR GOD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST IS A MUST, IN MY EYES.
IF YOU AGREE COME AND JOIN ME.
IRENE

[Irene]

How long, O Lord, will Thy forget me?
How long wilt Thou hide Thy face from me?
How long shall mine enemies triumph over me?

Consider and hear me, O Lord my God
Consider and hear me, O Lord my God
Lighten mine eyes, lighten mine eyes
Lest I sleep the sleep of the death.

Let not mine enemies say: I have prevailed against him
Prevailed against him
For my trust is in Thy mercy, Thy mercy and faithfulness
Thy mercy and faithfulness.

Stand up, O Lord, in Thy might! Arise!
Judge Thou my cause!
Gird me with strength unto the battle
With strength unto the battle
And I will praise Thee, ans I will praise Thee
Will praise Thee upon the Harp.

Stand up, O LORD, in Thy might! Arise!
Judge Thou my cause!
And I will praise and magnify Thy Name Forever more.

Peace and Love Irene

[Irene]

How long, O Lord, will Thy forget me?
How long wilt Thou hide Thy face from me?
How long shall mine enemies triumph over me?

Consider and hear me, O Lord my God
Consider and hear me, O Lord my God
Lighten mine eyes, lighten mine eyes
Lest I sleep the sleep of the death.

Let not mine enemies say: I have prevailed against him
Prevailed against him
For my trust is in Thy mercy, Thy mercy and faithfulness
Thy mercy and faithfulness.

Stand up, O Lord, in Thy might! Arise!
Judge Thou my cause!
Gird me with strength unto the battle
With strength unto the battle
And I will praise Thee, ans I will praise Thee
Will praise Thee upon the Harp.

Stand up, O LORD, in Thy might! Arise!
Judge Thou my cause!
And I will praise and magnify Thy Name Forever more.

Peace and Love Irene

[Irene]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Aug. 19 2008,02:25)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 19 2008,01:38) T8………this whole thing about John 1:1 is what trinitarians us to do two things , one to try to show Jesus' preexistence and His Identity as the God of creation. Both preexistences and trinitarians hinge the belief system on this simple verse and the word Jesus is not even in it. It's all just smoke and mirrors, the truth is that John was expressing what was in the very beginning of all things and that was his (ONLY) point and nothing else. If trinitarians as well as preexistences have to have that verse to prove there positions, there positions are weak at best. Because there is no specific mention of Jesus at all in the text and transposing it to mean that is forcing the text. IMO love and peace to you and yours T8………….gene the “word” mentioned at John 1:1 IS referring to Jesus…John is simply showing Jesus relationship to his Father…I have never gotten the big deal with this verse..There are a sufficient amount of other verses to disprove the trinity, I don't see a need to get lost in words over this one.

Well Hello stranger, have not seen you post for awhile, how are you doing?
You are right, I don/t know either why people fall over John 1:1 so much. We have other scriptures to see if God is a trinity or not ore if Jesus was there before the world was. And He was according to Co. 1:15 and Rev. 3:14 John 17:5 I believe when a scripture is not clear to us, that we should see if there are other scriptures that can help us to understand.
I mainly writing this for Gen, I know you do understand the preexisting if Jesus.
Peace and Love Irene

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