- This topic has 2,141 replies, 60 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
Quote So we see here the Father says the Angels are to “Proskuneo” him. Sure, and the primary meaning of proskuneo is to “bow down” or as you say to “to fall upon the knees and touch the ground.” Essentially, it means to bow down.
Think of when those mocking Jesus with his stake bowed down before Jesus in a mocking way. The word proskyneo was used. The KJ even translates this as “worship.” It is a mistranslation. They were not worshipping him. They were simply bowing down before him, mocking him.The primary meaning of that word is to bow down. It certainly can mean to worship and often does. But it is up to the context to decide. And unfortunately, for a trinitarian, the context of the whole Bible suggests that Jesus is God Almighty and therefore deserving of worship.
BUT, one cannot make the case that Jesus is God Almighty because he is worshipped. The word proskyneo is used. But we know there are more than one meaning.
david
SHOULD WE “WORSHIP” JESUS?
THE HEBREW AND GREEK WORDS [proskynéo (Greek) and hishtachawah (Hebrew)] THAT ARE OFTEN TRANSLATED “WORSHIP,” HAVE A VARIETY OF MEANINGS.
At HEBREWS 1:6, the angels are instructed to “worship” Jesus, according to the rendering of RS, TEV, KJ, JB, and NAB, and others.
New World Translation (NW) says: “do obeisance to.”
Young's Literal Translation (YLT) says: “let them bow before him.”At MATTHEW 14:33, Jesus’ disciples are said to have “worshiped” him, according to RS, TEV, KJ.
Other translations say that they “showed him reverence” (NAB), “bowed down before him” (JB), “fell at his feet” (NE), “did obeisance to him” (NW).The Greek word rendered “worship” is proskynéo, which 'A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature' says was also “used to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before a person and kissing his feet, the hem of his garment, the ground.” (Chicago, 1979, Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker; second English edition; p. 716)
The Greek word proskynéo corresponds closely to the Hebrew term hishtachawah́ in expressing the thought of obeisance and, at times, worship.For example, this is the term used:
at Matthew 14:33 to express what the disciples did toward Jesus;
at Hebrews 1:6 to indicate what the angels are to do toward Jesus;
at Genesis 22:5 in the Greek Septuagint to describe what Abraham did toward Jehovah;
at Genesis 23:7 to describe what Abraham did, in harmony with the custom of the time, toward people with whom he was doing business;
at 1 Kings 1:23 in the Septuagint to describe the prophet Nathan’s action on approaching King David.
at Matthew 18:26 in connection with a slave’s doing obeisance to a king.NOTICE THOSE LAST FEW EXAMPLES AND CONSIDER WHAT THIS MEANS.
Let’s look at one more example. It’s an example of what happens when we insert the word “worship” where it clearly doesn’t belong–we get the wrong meaning.MARK 15:19 (New King James Version)
“Then they struck Him on the head with a reed and spat on Him; and bowing the knee, they WORSHIPED Him.”Many Bible's here have “paid homage to him,” or did “obeisance to him,” or something similar. Clearly, they were not spitting on him and at the same time worshiping him. The verse before (Mark 15:18) and Matthew 27:29 make clear that they “made fun” of him.
It was in a mocking way that they did “obeisance to him,” bowing to him. They were not worshiping him and the context certainly doesn’t allow proskynéo to be translated as “worship” here.
CLEARLY, IT SHOULD NOT ALWAYS BE TRANSLATED AS “WORSHIP.”NOW CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING:
At MATTHEW 4:10 (RS), Jesus said: “You shall worship [from proskynéo] the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.”
(At Deuteronomy 6:13, which Jesus is evidently here quoting, appears the personal name of God, the Tetragrammaton.) In harmony with that, we must understand that it is proskynéo with a particular attitude of heart and mind that should be directed ONLY TOWARD JEHOVAH GOD.The bottom line is this:
If you believe that Jesus is God Almighty, then you will believe the the context in these scriptures demands that those words be translated “worship” with respect to Jesus.
But the scriptures discussed above do not in themselves show that Jesus should be worshiped. They seem to indicate that only God should be worshiped. (And if you believe that Jesus is God, you will believe that Jesus was saying he should be worshiped.)
BUT YOU CAN'T USE THESE SCRIPTURES TO PROVE ANYTHING IN THIS REGARD.(At Deuteronomy 6:13, which Jesus is evidently here quoting, appears the personal name of God, the Tetragrammaton.) In harmony with that, we must understand that it is proskynéo with a particular attitude of heart and mind that should be directed ONLY TOWARD JEHOVAH GOD.
The bottom line is this:
If you believe that Jesus is God Almighty, then you will believe the the context in these scriptures demands that those words be translated “worship” with respect to Jesus.
But the scriptures discussed above do not in themselves show that Jesus should be worshiped. They seem to indicate that only God should be worshiped. (And if you believe that Jesus is God, you will believe that Jesus was saying he should be worshiped.)
BUT YOU CAN'T USE THESE SCRIPTURES TO PROVE ANYTHING IN THIS REGARD.[/quote]yes brother David, you are on right track as far as the explanation cocerned.
Peace to you
AdamTo all,
When you worship Jesus, you are worshiping the Father. Jesus did say I and my Father are one.
Hi gs,
He is one with God in the same way as he wants us to be one with him.
God is in him and he is in God.
We are not worshiped.I thought i had something to add..but these last couple of posts…echo my sentiments…
Jesus is to be “worshipped”…and rightly…so look at the position he has been given by God…but he is not to be “worshipped” as if he was God…Proskyneo does not always mean the type of reverential “worship” that Jesus rightly said only belonged to God at Matt 4:10..notice the way this verse is translated in a very enlightening translation called, “The Message Bible”
Matt 4:10 (message)- 10Jesus' refusal was curt: “Beat it, Satan!” He backed his rebuke with a third quotation from Deuteronomy: “Worship the Lord your God, and only him. Serve him with absolute single-heartedness.”
Further notice the etymology of the word “worship”
WORSHIP (n) O.E. worðscip, wurðscip (Anglian), weorðscipe (W.Saxon) “condition of being worthy, honor, renown,” from weorð “worthy” (see WORTH) + -scipe (see -SHIP). Sense of “reverence paid to a supernatural or divine being” is first recorded c.1300. The original sense is preserved in the title worshipful (c.1300). The verb is recorded from c.1200.
worship- reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence (from merriam-webster)
Simply put Christ is to be worshipped, but NOT the way His father is to be worshipped
Quote Hi gs,
He is one with God in the same way as he wants us to be one with him.
God is in him and he is in God.
We are not worshiped.Hi Nick, Of course we are not worshipped, because all the fullness of God doesn't dwell in us. All of the fulness of God dwells in Jesus.:)
Quote (dirtyknections @ May 30 2008,01:59) I thought i had something to add..but these last couple of posts…echo my sentiments… Jesus is to be “worshipped”…and rightly…so look at the position he has been given by God…but he is not to be “worshipped” as if he was God…Proskyneo does not always mean the type of reverential “worship” that Jesus rightly said only belonged to God at Matt 4:10..notice the way this verse is translated in a very enlightening translation called, “The Message Bible”
Matt 4:10 (message)- 10Jesus' refusal was curt: “Beat it, Satan!” He backed his rebuke with a third quotation from Deuteronomy: “Worship the Lord your God, and only him. Serve him with absolute single-heartedness.”
Further notice the etymology of the word “worship”
WORSHIP (n) O.E. worðscip, wurðscip (Anglian), weorðscipe (W.Saxon) “condition of being worthy, honor, renown,” from weorð “worthy” (see WORTH) + -scipe (see -SHIP). Sense of “reverence paid to a supernatural or divine being” is first recorded c.1300. The original sense is preserved in the title worshipful (c.1300). The verb is recorded from c.1200.
worship- reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence (from merriam-webster)
Simply put Christ is to be worshipped, but NOT the way His father is to be worshipped
Hi Dk,
Nice post on worship. I agree with you. Jesus is our Lord and Master. We have to worship and bowdown to him in that way but not as God the Father.
Thanks
AdamFYI
The Worship of Christ
http://adonimessiah.blogspot.com/2006/12/worship-of-christ.htmlCan we “worship” Jesus Christ?
http://adonimessiah.blogspot.com/2006….st.htmlQuote (Adam Pastor @ June 03 2008,07:33) FYI The Worship of Christ
http://adonimessiah.blogspot.com/2006/12/worship-of-christ.htmlCan we “worship” Jesus Christ?
http://adonimessiah.blogspot.com/2006….st.html
Thanks Brother Adam Pastor. You always have something valuable to share. Nice to hear from you. God Bless you and your family.To all,
It is not wrong to worship Jesus. Everyone has agreed that Jesus(Yeshua) means Yahweh is salvation! And we all agree that the Father's name is Yahweh. So how is it wrong to worship Jesus?
Hi Nick,
Elijah means God is Lord. Of course we donot worship Elijah, because he is not God. Jesus is different. All the fulness of the Godhead dwelt in Jesus bodily, not Elijah. By the way, I looked up the word Godhead, which means deity. The Father revealed his redemptive name through his son. When we worship Jesus, we are not worshiping the man Christ Jesus, we are worshiping the Father ( Yahweh is salvation, which is Jesus in English, or Yeshua in the Hebrew)
Quote (Adam Pastor @ June 03 2008,07:33) FYI The Worship of Christ
http://adonimessiah.blogspot.com/2006/12/worship-of-christ.htmlCan we “worship” Jesus Christ?
http://adonimessiah.blogspot.com/2006….st.html
Hi Adam,
Thanks for the articles on Worship. You know I am also another Adam from India. I like your posts very much and I agree with most of your understanding on God and Jesus.
Why you are absent for quite a long time on this forum?
Peace to you
AdamQuote All the fulness of the Godhead dwelt in Jesus bodily, not Elijah. By the way, I looked up the word Godhead, which means deity. On whether that word that some Bible's translate Godhead, is referring to personality or quality, we can discuss if you like. But notice how Colossians 1:19 compares to Colossians 2:9, which you mention.
COLOSSIANS 2:9
“because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality [or “Godhead”] dwells bodily.”COLOSSIANS 1:19
“because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him,”All fullness dwells in Christ because it “pleased the Father” (KJ, Dy), because it was “by God’s own choice.” (NE) So the fullness of “divinity” that dwells in Christ is his as a result of a decision made by the Father.
Who did Jesus say to worship?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
