Worship God the Father only?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

WorshippingJesus I have heard your words You may say anything against Christ our lord and saviour, and be forgiven But Blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable Denying the power of God to perform his will, and denying that Christ walked in the flesh is the spirit of the antichrist To be born again of good seed not a bad seed Behold God created Christ Isa 54:16 “Behold, I have created” the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. Behold the creation worshiped more than the creator Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Vessel sent to subdue all things Phl 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. It seems it is no longer a matter of deaf ears to gain hearing but beyond? Christ worships God Hbr 10:5 ¶ Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, *but a body hast thou prepared me: Hbr 10:6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Hbr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, The word of God, in volume of a book at Gods service Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Amen charity

Charity

I hear your words.

But is this an example of love, to call a child of God a blasphemer?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, No matter how old your foundation is claimed to be the building must be built on the only cornerstone provided by God. “You are the Christ, the son of the living God”

NH

Have you ever considered these words?

Matt 16:
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Notice: I will build My Church.

and

Church of God

I Cor 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

I Cor 10:22
Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

I Cor 11:22
What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

Whose Church is it NH?

Let me see…ahhhh…

Church of God ….I Cor 10:22

Church of Jesus….Matt 16:18

One God NH.

Father,Son and Holy Spirit!

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
Do you think Jesus built his church on Peter?
No.
Peter was just the first stone found ready for laying next to the cornerstone of Christ in the building of God. He manifested the Spirit of truth through his mouth and Jesus rejoiced to hear him.
That Spirit said
“you are the Christ, the son of the living God.”
just as you should.
So you will find him in the walls of the new Jerusalem in Rev 22 along with the other stones and you will see that building shown in Eph 2.
It was Peter himself who told us we should also come as living stones.

1Peter 2
” 4To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.”
No we are not following Cephas or Paul or Apollos
1Cor 3
” 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.”

The building of God is not built on men.
.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, Do you think Jesus built his church on Peter? No. Peter was just the first stone found ready for laying next to the cornerstone of Christ in the building of God. He manifested the Spirit of truth through his mouth and Jesus rejoiced to hear him. That Spirit said “you are the Christ, the son of the living God.” just as you should. So you will find him in the walls of the new Jerusalem in Rev 22 along with the other stones and you will see that building shown in Eph 2. It was Peter himself who told us we should also come as living stones. 1Peter 2 ” 4To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.” No we are not following Cephas or Paul or Apollos 1Cor 3 ” 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.” The building of God is not built on men. .

NH

Boy. Thats a total diversion from what I posted. Where did I mention Peter was the foundation.

Look again NH.

Whos Church Is it?

Jesus said it is his.

The Apostles call it the Church of God.

Matt 16:18
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build **my church**;…

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
The builder is God and the church is the body of Christ founded on the stone of Christ..
Be found in it by expressing same truth that Peter did and
call Jesus your Lord and God your God.
“You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God”

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, The builder is God and the church is the body of Christ founded on the stone of Christ.. Be found in it by expressing same truth that Peter did and call Jesus your Lord and God your God. “You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God”

NH

No.

Jesus is the builder. I will build MY CHURCH

Believe his words!

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
Do you see conflict between the Son and His Father who has given him all authority?
Then you do not understand the kingdom which is not divided against itself or it could not stand.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, Do you see conflict between the Son and His Father who has given him all authority? Then you do not understand the kingdom which is not divided against itself or it could not stand.

NH

The conflict is in you. You dont see the unity of the Father and the Son as God!

MY CHURCH!

CHURCH OF GOD!

The Apostles saw no conflict!

[NickHassan]

Hi w,
Not another fascinating similarity that you take as a proof?
Christ is the servant of God.
No conflict.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Worship God our Saviour!

Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isa 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Hsa 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

And then….

Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

And so fulfilled the prophesy of Isaiah…

Isa 9:
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, **The mighty God**, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Matt 1:
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, **God with us**.

Take note Arian followers, he was the mighty God, God with us before the baptism at the Jordan.

Lk 2:11
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Tts 1:
3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Tts 2:
10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Tts 3:4
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Jud 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Remeber , he that hath the Son hath the Father, also he that honors the Son honors the Father also.

I Jn 2:
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

I Jn 4:
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ [Word/God, the Mighty God] is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ [Word/God the Mighty God] is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Compare with…

I Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God [the Mighty God] was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

So for all the Arian believers and followers…

If you honor the Father then you have to honor the Son.

The Son is fully honored when he is aknowledge for who he is,

The Mighty God, the Word that was with God and the Word that was God who never ceased being God but left his place beside his Father and became a servant by taking on human form, becoming a Son, and submitting to the Father even to death of the cross. Who is now exalted back to his original Glory that he shared with the Father as God, seated at the right hand of the Father, and has been given all power, and authority, all the fullness of the Godhead being in him, and is given a name above ALL Names, JESUS.

Phil 2
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Glory and honor is given to the Father when every tongue confesses that Jesus is Lord, Mighty God, prince of peace, Lord of Lords, King of Kings.

Heb 1:
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Pss 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish [from] the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed [are] all they that put their trust in him.

Let all men fall to their knees and obey the Fathers command to worship the Mighty God Jesus!

Give him the honor that is due his name!

Jn 5:23
That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Jn 8:54
Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Jn 8:54
Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

The word for honoureth is doxazo, which means;

1) to think, suppose, be of opinion

2) to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate

3) to honour, do honour to, hold in honour

4) to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour

See how the Father exalts and praises Jesus?

Jn 12:26
If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

You cant have the Father without having the Son.

You cant Honour and acknowedge the Father without giving the Same Honour and acknowedgement to the Son.

II Peter 1:17
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Jn 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

look at how the Host of heaven honours him!!!

Rev 5:
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, wh
ich are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You seem to regard worship of Jesus as being worship of his father. You preach that worship to the exclusion of the Father and that is anathema. It shows how accepting one false doctrine can spawn other falsities. Worship God.

[Cubes]

Quote (david @ Jan. 22 2007,08:49)

In the Bible, we see that Israelite human judges were called gods, (“mighty ones, strong ones”) and that angels were called gods (“mighty ones, strong ones”) These were not false gods, were they?  NOPE.  NOPE! NOOOOO! They were “mighty ones.”  No question.   I HAVE A QUESTION, completely hypothetical:  If everyone was a god, would anyone be a god, or a “mighty one”?  No.  One is mighty, only in reference to another. The angels were mighty ones compared to humans.  The judges are mighty compared to other israelites.  (The false gods, the idols are false in that they are not really mighty at all, they're powerless). So, with reference to Jehovah, is anyone else mighty?  Is anyone his God?  We know that Jehovah is the God of Jesus.  This is stated several times.    Yet, no one is mighty compared to the Almighty Jehovah.  He is a “mighty one” compared to everyone else on a completely different level: He is Almighty, without limit in might. Hence, he can fittingly and rightly be called the only true God.

Well said, David.
That's what the scriptures show.

Psa 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

[Cubes]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 21 2007,07:47)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 20 2007,09:28) Hi Is 1.18, Yes. For US there is ONE GOD the Father. So I would not be being true to scripture if I was to worship His Son or any other godly being. That would be polytheism and anathema for US. No polytheism is believing in more than one godly (divine) being…… Only one godly being – God.

Hi Is,

If we believed them to be on equal footing, then you are right.
But I believe that Moses was a prophet of God, who was as God to Pharoah to the performing of wonders as granted by YHWH, one who could do nothing without God.
Moses was real.  He really did exist and brought the people out of Egypt (by the hand of YHWH).

In this statement, you'd hopefully recognize that I mean that YHWH is utmost GOD and that I acknowledge the total reliance of Moses upon GOD.

Similarly with Jesus, except that as David's post explained, Jesus is yet greater than Moses but still dependent upon GOD having nothing that has not been given to him, and proceeding out of God, having God as his head… living because of the Father, etc.  Need I go on?

We are not polytheists.  Trinitism on the other hand is, by having EQUAL personS in ORIGINS and ALL attributes that characterize “GOD,” and by referring to one who is under GOD [most high] as GOD Most High…. and in the process, creating another God entirely who is compared in glory (not being) with the one and only true GOD.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Cubes @ Jan. 25 2007,17:05)

If we believed them to be on equal footing, then you are right. But I believe that Moses was a prophet of God, who was as God to Pharoah to the performing of wonders as granted by YHWH, one who could do nothing without God. Moses was real.  He really did exist and brought the people out of Egypt (by the hand of YHWH).

Hi Cubes
Yes Moses was “as God” to Pharaoh. Yahshua was simply designated “God” in the NT.

Quote

In this statement, you'd hopefully recognize that I mean that YHWH is utmost GOD and that I acknowledge the total reliance of Moses upon GOD.

You mean there is more than One God (divine being)??? Wow!, I thought that there was only One, and that every other being was part of His creation….

Quote

Similarly with Jesus, except that as David's post explained, Jesus is yet greater than Moses

He he….Cubes I'm going to nominate that for the understatement of the year. Yes Yahshua was “greater than Moses”, He is greater in the same way a builder is greater than His house:

Hebrews 3:1-6
1Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession; 2He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house.
3For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house.
4For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.
5Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later;
6but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

Yahshua = Creator
Moses = Creation

The gulf between Moses and Yahshua in terms of their “greatness” is incomprehensibly vast.

Quote

but still dependent upon GOD having nothing that has not been given to him, and proceeding out of God, having God as his head… living because of the Father, etc.  Need I go on?

Philippians 2:5-8
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Quote

We are not polytheists.  Trinitism on the other hand is, by having EQUAL personS in ORIGINS and ALL attributes that characterize “GOD,” and by referring to one who is under GOD [most high] as GOD Most High

Well herein lies the problem for you Cubes…..according to you there are more than One God, a “Most High” one (of which Yahshua is also called in Dan 7) and lesser ones. I assert that there exists only One God – YHWH.

As for the “origins” and “attributes” part of the statement I agree entirely! The Bible does not differentiate between the Father and Son with regard to these. The Son perpetually existed “with” the Father in the beginning (John 1:1b) and every divine attribute the Father is described as having is likewise applied to the Son in scripture.

Quote

…. and in the process, creating another God entirely who is compared in glory (not being) with the one and only true GOD.

John 17:5
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Blessings

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Christ said true worshipers worship the Father.
He did not say
“worship me”
He did not say
” I am the Father”
If he was the Father God what reason would he have had for making this statement?
Somehow his words continue to have no validity for some who call him “lord”.
I think we should listen to him.

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18
You say
“Well herein lies the problem for you Cubes…..according to you there are more than One God, a “Most High” one (of which Yahshua is also called in Dan 7) and lesser ones. I assert that there exists only One God – YHWH. “

We worship and serve one God, in Christ
It is you who have found scriptures that speak of Jesus as God.
You then bring them to us to demand we accept he imust be our God too.
That is your problem not ours as our God is one and he has a son.
You have caused your own confusion.

[Cubes]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 27 2007,05:10)

Quote (Cubes @ Jan. 25 2007,17:05) If we believed them to be on equal footing, then you are right. But I believe that Moses was a prophet of God, who was as God to Pharoah to the performing of wonders as granted by YHWH, one who could do nothing without God. Moses was real.  He really did exist and brought the people out of Egypt (by the hand of YHWH). Hi Cubes Yes Moses was “as God” to Pharaoh. Yahshua was simply designated “God” in the NT. Quote In this statement, you'd hopefully recognize that I mean that YHWH is utmost GOD and that I acknowledge the total reliance of Moses upon GOD. You mean there is more than One God (divine being)??? Wow!, I thought that there was only One, and that every other being was part of His creation…. Quote Similarly with Jesus, except that as David's post explained, Jesus is yet greater than Moses He he….Cubes I'm going to nominate that for the understatement of the year. Yes Yahshua was “greater than Moses”, He is greater in the same way a builder is greater than His house: Hebrews 3:1-6 1Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession; 2He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house. 3For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house. 4For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God. 5Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; 6but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. Yahshua = Creator Moses = Creation The gulf between Moses and Yahshua in terms of their “greatness” is incomprehensibly vast. Quote but still dependent upon GOD having nothing that has not been given to him, and proceeding out of God, having God as his head… living because of the Father, etc.  Need I go on? Philippians 2:5-8 5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Quote We are not polytheists.  Trinitism on the other hand is, by having EQUAL personS in ORIGINS and ALL attributes that characterize “GOD,” and by referring to one who is under GOD [most high] as GOD Most High Well herein lies the problem for you Cubes…..according to you there are more than One God, a “Most High” one (of which Yahshua is also called in Dan 7) and lesser ones. I assert that there exists only One God – YHWH. As for the “origins” and “attributes” part of the statement I agree entirely! The Bible does not differentiate between the Father and Son with regard to these. The Son perpetually existed “with” the Father in the beginning (John 1:1b) and every divine attribute the Father is described as having is likewise applied to the Son in scripture. Quote …. and in the process, creating another God entirely who is compared in glory (not being) with the one and only true GOD. John 17:5 “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. Blessings

Greetings Is.  

Please refer to the Trinity thread for my response (page 555).

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….st=5540

[david]

Quote

We are not polytheists. Trinitism on the other hand is, by having EQUAL personS in ORIGINS and ALL attributes that characterize “GOD,” and by referring to one who is under GOD [most high] as GOD Most High…. and in the process, creating another God entirely who is compared in glory (not being) with the one and only true GOD.

–Cubes.

Wow. Come to think of it, Cubes, you are right. They are polytheists who try to wrap up this belief into a nice little mystery by using really big philisophical words.

Now that I have Is 1:18's attention:

Is 1:18, you say:

Quote

Yes Moses was “as God” to Pharaoh.

What does this mean? How was Moses as God “to Pharaoh”? Did pharaoh worship him, “as God”? NOOOOOOO. And if no worship was involved what does that tell us about the word “God”? Did pharaoh think that Moses was composed of some trinity, or that he was “as” Jehovah?
Or can the word translated “God” sometimes convey a more general meaning? What are your thoughts on this?

The Father is spoken of as being God 'to Jesus.' Yet, never is the reverse mentioned. (just a random comment)

I'm wondering what you think of the angels being called gods. Yes, there is only one true God, one God who is God to all, and above all in power, mighty, strength, wisdom, etc. But with reference to us, for example, angels could be called gods. They are of course not “the” God, the one you refer to here:

Quote

I thought that there was only One, and that every other being was part of His creation….

You had said this:

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You mean there is more than One God (divine being)

I wonder what your definition of “divine” is. My dictionaries say that it means having the nature or form of a deity or being god like. We can fight over words on this, and I don't want to be anti-semantic, so let's just look at this: “You mean there is more than One God…” Of course, the Bible speaks of one true God, Is 1:18. No one can argue that. But no one can argue that the angels are called gods (and they're not false gods, they really are mighty ones).
So how do we reconcile these two facts? By understanding the meaning of the word “god” it becomes clear that in relation to others (as in relation to Pharoah, or Aaron also, Moses could be spoken of as god in relation to them) Even Jesus has a God, his Father.

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You mean there is more than One God (divine being)??? Wow!, I thought that there was only One, and that every other being was part of His creation….

You make a bit of a mistake here, one which is largely responsible for this whole trinity belief, and this is connecting these two ideas of yours. Yes, there is one all powerful, almighty being, the only true God, who created heaven and earth. Every other being is a part of His creation. True.
BUT, the word God is applied to ones who are clearly not Him, in the Bible. I don't think we can call the angels “false gods” They are perhaps in relation to Jehovah–they are not really mighty at all, compared to him, the Almighty. Yet, they are “mighty ones” compared to us. So, that term rightfully fits. And the contradictions and mysteries disappear and fade away.

david

[david]

As well, Is 1:18, I know you are busy, but I'm was wanting to continue our conversation that seems to have ended on Jan 21, page 540 of the trinity thread, about Jesus and the pharisees.

david

[Proclaimer]

Quote (david @ Jan. 28 2007,01:30)

Quote We are not polytheists. Trinitism on the other hand is, by having EQUAL personS in ORIGINS and ALL attributes that characterize “GOD,” and by referring to one who is under GOD [most high] as GOD Most High…. and in the process, creating another God entirely who is compared in glory (not being) with the one and only true GOD. –Cubes. Wow. Come to think of it, Cubes, you are right. They are polytheists who try to wrap up this belief into a nice little mystery by using really big philisophical words. Now that I have Is 1:18's attention: Is 1:18, you say: Quote Yes Moses was “as God” to Pharaoh. What does this mean? How was Moses as God “to Pharaoh”? Did pharaoh worship him, “as God”? NOOOOOOO. And if no worship was involved what does that tell us about the word “God”? Did pharaoh think that Moses was composed of some trinity, or that he was “as” Jehovah? Or can the word translated “God” sometimes convey a more general meaning? What are your thoughts on this? The Father is spoken of as being God 'to Jesus.' Yet, never is the reverse mentioned. (just a random comment) I'm wondering what you think of the angels being called gods. Yes, there is only one true God, one God who is God to all, and above all in power, mighty, strength, wisdom, etc. But with reference to us, for example, angels could be called gods. They are of course not “the” God, the one you refer to here: Quote I thought that there was only One, and that every other being was part of His creation…. You had said this: Quote You mean there is more than One God (divine being) I wonder what your definition of “divine” is. My dictionaries say that it means having the nature or form of a deity or being god like. We can fight over words on this, and I don't want to be anti-semantic, so let's just look at this: “You mean there is more than One God…” Of course, the Bible speaks of one true God, Is 1:18. No one can argue that. But no one can argue that the angels are called gods (and they're not false gods, they really are mighty ones). So how do we reconcile these two facts? By understanding the meaning of the word “god” it becomes clear that in relation to others (as in relation to Pharoah, or Aaron also, Moses could be spoken of as god in relation to them) Even Jesus has a God, his Father. Quote You mean there is more than One God (divine being)??? Wow!, I thought that there was only One, and that every other being was part of His creation…. You make a bit of a mistake here, one which is largely responsible for this whole trinity belief, and this is connecting these two ideas of yours. Yes, there is one all powerful, almighty being, the only true God, who created heaven and earth. Every other being is a part of His creation. True. BUT, the word God is applied to ones who are clearly not Him, in the Bible. I don't think we can call the angels “false gods” They are perhaps in relation to Jehovah–they are not really mighty at all, compared to him, the Almighty. Yet, they are “mighty ones” compared to us. So, that term rightfully fits. And the contradictions and mysteries disappear and fade away. david

Good post david

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