Worship God the Father only?

Participant

worshipwhoeveryoulike?

Its Good worship Jesus, who worshiped God, but don't worship each other

All things work together for those that love God

By the mind we have unity
By all with the new mind we have an army.
We are promised the mind of God, and with receiving we will desire all as God desires.
Instinctively
Consequently
then his will shall be preformed on earth by obedience

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

January 21, 2007 at 6:33 am#37938

Participant

Quote

Haven't you noticed that all of the scriptures you use are like this?

David

Are they?

Jn
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Heb
1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
(since we dont believe in Polotheism then the Mighty God must be the true God)

Isa 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, **the Almighty**.

Rev 1:11
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Rev 1:17
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Rev 2:8
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Rev 22:3
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

This is only a few. Are these clear enough?

January 21, 2007 at 6:47 am#37939

Participant

Quote

David

Are they?

Isa 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, **the Almighty**.

Rev 1:17
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Rev 2:8
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Rev 22:3
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Thankyou for making my point for me.

david

January 21, 2007 at 6:54 am#37942

Participant

Quote

Thankyou for making my point for me.

david

Is that all you have!

January 21, 2007 at 6:55 am#37943

Participant

Those scriptures are wonderful

Not a complaint

But the mind must take every thought captive to the will of God

Motives of heart driving force, using the letter also can kill

Pro 30:27 The locusts have no king, yet go they forth all of them by bands;

They have no king to present them to God

An army is under direction of the king
A worthy King conceals before God everything

January 21, 2007 at 6:57 am#37944

Participant

Quote

And you're right that Yahshua isn't a false god. The word “god” truly fits him in every way. So he isn't a false god.

David

NWT Says Jesus is a God!

Polotheism is Idolatry!

January 21, 2007 at 7:01 am#37945

Participant

Quote

So what are you saying David that I should leave my interpretation and follow your interpretation.

The scripture is clear, but of course you want to read into it what you want.

I Jn 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

This verse mentions the Son of God twice and says we are in him this is the true God and Eternal life which John mentions in ch 1:1,2 of this Epistle.

How clear is that?

Compared to the thousand scripures that specifically say that Jehovah is God, it's not clear in the least–comparatively speaking.
This scripture doesn't say: Jesus is the only true God.
It says “This is the true God.”
So, it's not nearly as clear as you imagine.
The expression: “Jehovah your God,” for example, occurs 455 times in the Bible. That expression is clearly indicating that Jehovah is God.
This scripture in question says: “This” is the true God.

So don't try to tell me its “so” clear.

Let's see who the “this” is.

1 JOHN 5:19-20
“We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one. But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting.”

So, we know we originate with GOD.
The Son of God, (ie: not the one just spoken of but the “son of” that one) came and gave us knowledge of THE TRUE ONE.
(So the question is, is this verse speaking about Jesus giving us knowledge of himself, or of God, whom he is the “son of.”)
The next verse makes it plain and answers the question:
“we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ”
In this verse, it's crystal clear that the true one spoken of IS NOT Jesus Christ. We know this because we are in union with the true one by means of “his son,” (ie: not him, but “his son.”) Therefore, I don't see how anyone can logically say that the true one spoken of here is Jesus Christ.

Looking at verse 18, the preceeding verse, also makes clear that we are speaking of God, not Jesus, who is called “his son,” here. In this verse and verse 19, it is clear that we are speaking of God. Jesus is mentioned as coming and giving us knowledge of that one, and is definitely distinguished from the “true one” in verse 19. Hence, the sentence: “This is the true God and life everlasting,” can not refer to Jesus, because he is distinguished as being the son of this one, and not the true one himself.

Of course, we are not given a name. But we do know it is not speaking of Jesus, as he is spoken of in a related way to the true one, and therefore can't be the true one being spoken of himself.

It is absurd to suggest that this scripture clearly says that Jesus is the only true God.
You have mention of Jesus in the sentence before. It's not even in the same sentence.

A thousand times, we find the name Jehovah in the same sentence, specifically being called God, without question.
How odd it is that this is not the case with his supposedly equal counterpart, Jesus.

david

January 21, 2007 at 7:05 am#37946

Participant

Quote

Quote
Thankyou for making my point for me.

david

Is that all you have!

WJ, my point is that: “that's all you have.” and you made that point beautifully. I had said that the scriptures on your side, are for some reason all ambiguous in the way you are using them.
When the Bible speaks of Jehovah or the Father being God, there is no question what it is saying.
You picked 10 scriptures, which I must assume you think are clear, as I said that all your scriptures are unclear and ambiguous. Yet, half of the scriptures you chose are from the highly symbolic book of revelation. And which of those scriptures even say that Jesus is God?

My whole point is that you would reasonably think that the God's word would make this more clear if it were true. Don't you think?

January 21, 2007 at 7:13 am#37947

Participant

Quote

My whole point is that you would reasonably think that the God's word would make this more clear if it were true. Don't you think?

David

Jesus said with his own mouth that he is the first and the last and you refuse to believe him!

I still will praise and magnify and lift up and glorify the name of Jesus who is my Lord and my God!

This is my Fathers commandment to honour the Son AS I honour my Father.

Blessings

January 21, 2007 at 7:20 am#37948

Participant

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue [that] shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This [is] the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness [is] of me, saith the LORD.

January 21, 2007 at 7:21 am#37949

Participant

Quote

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Thanks Charity!

January 21, 2007 at 7:24 am#37950

Participant

POLYTHEISM:

# the belief in more than one Deity.
http://www.fabrisia.com/glossary1.htm

# the worship of many gods.
http://www.willdurant.com/glossary.htm

# (belief in a pantheon of many deities, usually male and female), and
http://www.religioustolerance.org/tran_imm.htm

# Believing in the existence of more than one god.
http://www.reasoned.org/glossary.htm

# Form of belief in which a person has two or more gods.
http://www.elissetche.org/dico/P.htm

# The belief in the existence of multiple deities or godheads, as opposed to monotheism, where only a single god or godhead is revered.
http://www.moonbeamgarden.com/witchscottage/wiccan_pagan_glossary.htm

# The belief in more than one God, for example Hinduism or the religion of the Ancient Greeks or Romans.
http://www.elliotcross.com/glossary.html

# the belief that more then one god exists.
http://www.strongatheism.net/intro/lexicon/

# the belief in many supreme deities.
http://www.geocities.com/brianmyhre/12Def.htm

# The belief in the existence of many deities which are not even remotely related to each other and are completely individual. Paganism is not polytheistic, for we believe every aspect of our God and Goddess come together as one, which makes us pantheistic.
spiraldance.deep-ice.com/glossary.htm

# the doctrine that there are many gods and goddesses
http://www.d.umn.edu/~revans/Handouts/rel_terms.htm

# belief in multiple Gods
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

# Polytheism is belief in, or worship of, multiple gods or divinities. The word comes from the Greek words poly+theoi, literally “many gods.” Most ancient religions were polytheistic, holding to pantheons of traditional deities, often accumulated over centuries of cultural interchange and experience. The belief in many gods does not preclude the belief in an all- powerful all-knowing supreme being. …
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytheism

************

We have to look at the word “God” in the way it is used in the Bible and not look at man made definitions.
Part of the problem is, when we look at definitions of the word “god” today, they tend to look at the english meaning of the word today, as being the one and only supreme ….etc.
When you do this, LOOK AT MAN MADE DEFINITIONS OF THIS WORD, you will most likely come to the wrong conclusions.

In the Bible, we see that Israelite human judges were called gods, (“mighty ones, strong ones”) and that angels were called gods (“mighty ones, strong ones”)

These were not false gods, were they? NOPE. NOPE!
NOOOOO!

They were “mighty ones.” No question.

I HAVE A QUESTION, completely hypothetical: If everyone was a god, would anyone be a god, or a “mighty one”? No. One is mighty, only in reference to another.
The angels were mighty ones compared to humans. The judges are mighty compared to other israelites. (The false gods, the idols are false in that they are not really mighty at all, they're powerless).
So, with reference to Jehovah, is anyone else mighty? Is anyone his God? We know that Jehovah is the God of Jesus. This is stated several times. Yet, no one is mighty compared to the Almighty Jehovah. He is a “mighty one” compared to everyone else on a completely different level: He is Almighty, without limit in might.
Hence, he can fittingly and rightly be called the only true God.

Isn't it easier, once we understand what words mean?

January 21, 2007 at 7:28 am#37951

Participant

Quote

Jesus said with his own mouth that he is the first and the last and you refuse to believe him!

Oh, I'm sorry. Where did Jesus clearly say that he is God Almighty? Which scripture are you speaking of anyway? (I take it this is your strongest proof, as we are discussing your inability to provide clear scriptures. So i expect this should be good.)

david

January 21, 2007 at 7:29 am#37952

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 21 2007,07:21)

Quote

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Thanks Charity!

How have you translated these verses?

God created a waster, God created him?

Sorry but need to ask?

January 21, 2007 at 7:43 am#37955

Participant

Quote

How have you translated these verses?

God created a waster, God created him?

Sorry but need to ask?

Charity

No weapon that is formed against me will prosper. And every tongue that rises against me I will condemn. This is my heritage as a servant of the Lord!

January 21, 2007 at 7:46 am#37957

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 21 2007,07:43)

Quote

How have you translated these verses?

God created a waster, God created him?

Sorry but need to ask?

Charity

No weapon that is formed against me will prosper. And every tongue that rises against me I will condemn. This is my heritage as a servant of the Lord!

Have you seated yourself above us?

January 21, 2007 at 8:56 am#37972

NickHassan

Participant

Hi W,
You say
“I still will praise and magnify and lift up and glorify the name of Jesus who is my Lord and my God!
This is my Fathers commandment to honour the Son AS I honour my Father.”

It is a funny old thing but you,
who acknowledge the commands of the Father,
seem to elevate the Son
at THE EXPENSE of THE FATHER.

I do not remember you mentioning you actually worship our Father God at all.

January 21, 2007 at 7:31 pm#37984

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 21 2007,07:43)

Quote

How have you translated these verses?

God created a waster, God created him?

Sorry but need to ask?

Charity

No weapon that is formed against me will prosper. And every tongue that rises against me I will condemn. This is my heritage as a servant of the Lord!

WorshippingJesus

I have heard your words

You may say anything against Christ our lord and saviour, and be forgiven
But Blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable
Denying the power of God to perform his will, and denying that Christ walked in the flesh is the spirit of the antichrist

To be born again of good seed not a bad seed

Behold God created Christ
Isa 54:16 “Behold, I have created” the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Behold the creation worshiped more than the creator
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Vessel sent to subdue all things
Phl 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

It seems it is no longer a matter of deaf ears to gain hearing but beyond?

Christ worships God
Hbr 10:5 ¶ Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, *but a body hast thou prepared me:
Hbr 10:6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Hbr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
The word of God, in volume of a book at Gods service
Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Amen

charity

January 21, 2007 at 7:50 pm#37985

NickHassan

Participant

Hi charity,
Christ came as the image that me could see but men forgot the original and worshiped the image.

January 21, 2007 at 8:14 pm#37986