Worship God the Father only?

[NickHassan]

Hi Charity,
Cubes is a blessing.

The path is truth.
“My word is truth”
Follow truth.

[charity]

Amen Nick

It sometimes is that all we have left is just to love each other and that in its self is loving the truth

Jhn 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

2Cr 8:7 Therefore, as ye abound in every [thing, in] faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and [in] all diligence, and [in] your love to us, [see] that ye abound in this grace also.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

1Pe 3:8 Finally, [be ye] all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, [be] pitiful, [be] courteous:

charity

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Finally, from Genesis… certainly Deuteronomy, I was told to expect a messiah (prophet, servant) of God.  Not God himself in the form of a man.

My post was to your comment above.

I agree with pretty much everthing you said. But not the above. I would only add that the Reason they crucified the Messiah Jesus, was not just because he said he was the Son of God, but to the Jews he was claiming to be God.

So I disagree with you that the Word/God didnt take on a body and was tabernacled among us.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

To further clarify my response to your questions above, and speaking of my opinion, I believe that in order for the NT scriptures to be considered true, they would have to be in some way shape or form established in the first covenant: that's what the scriptures I cited are about. If we do not readily see references and answers to questions such as you have above, it could be that we are not seeing or recognizing all the clues yet… God also builds on what he has already done giving us the types and shadows of physical things that are later revealed in a greater spiritual way and generally when we put such patterns together, they fit harmoniously from various angles with previously established truths as to assure us of the giver of the truth, so even for the apostles, they had to rely on scripture, and Jesus said of himself that scriptures are written of him… so that no prophecy is by private interpretation! So why would we think to do less? When we find a new testament doctrine seemingly divorced from all scripture and precedence beforehand, then I feel that we can trust it if it builds on revealed truth, hold off on conclusions or suspect OUR TRANSLATION/INTERPRETATION thereof if it does not agree with other scriptures. Hope that helps. I realize that I have not answered your questions. Would try to focus on those in my next post.

As far as my questions I know the answer to them. I dont have all knowledge, niether do you or any other on this forum.

All we can do is seek the Lord and he will lead us into all truth by the Spirit of truth.

His promise to do that is for every sincere child of his.

[NickHassan]

Hi Cubes,
Finally, from Genesis… certainly Deuteronomy, I was told to expect a messiah (prophet, servant) of God. Not God himself in the form of a man.

Indeed.
Is 49
” 1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

4Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God.

5And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.

6And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

7Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.”

A servant to God who had been hidden in the palm of God now man from the Womb.
So what if the enemies of Christ think he is God when he did not say so because we do not agree with his murderous enemies.
He said he was the Son of God and we should rather believe him.

[Cubes]

Quote (charity @ Dec. 20 2006,08:22)

Cubes I have to say I praise God for you and your words given. I can’t tell you how much they have blessed me Very very much Nothing but tears Thankyou And for the guy’s I understand also you anger and frustrations to seek truth; everything is easy forgotten when the heart is noticed the desire is truly good intention charity

Hi Charity,

You are a blessing too and we are a house being built together to the glory of God.

[Cubes]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 21 2006,02:32)

Quote To further clarify my response to your questions above, and speaking of my opinion, I believe that in order for the NT scriptures to be considered true, they would have to be in some way shape or form established in the first covenant:  that's what the scriptures I cited are about.   If we do not readily see references and answers to questions such as you have above, it could be that we are not seeing or recognizing all the clues yet… God also builds on what he has already done giving us the types and shadows of physical things that are later revealed in a greater spiritual way and generally when we put such patterns together, they fit harmoniously from various angles with previously established truths as to assure us of the giver of the truth, so even for the apostles, they had to rely on scripture, and Jesus said of himself that scriptures are written of him… so that no prophecy is by private interpretation!  So why would we think to do less? When we find a new testament doctrine seemingly divorced from all scripture and precedence beforehand, then I feel that we can trust it if it builds on revealed truth, hold off on conclusions or suspect OUR TRANSLATION/INTERPRETATION thereof if it does not agree with other scriptures. Hope that helps. I realize that I have not answered your questions.  Would try to focus on those in my next post. As far as my questions I know the answer to them. I dont have all knowledge, niether do you or any other on this forum. All we can do is seek the Lord and he will lead us into all truth by the Spirit of truth. His promise to do that is for every sincere child of his.

Amen, WJ.

[Cubes]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2006,02:52)

Hi Cubes, Finally, from Genesis… certainly Deuteronomy, I was told to expect a messiah (prophet, servant) of God.  Not God himself in the form of a man. Indeed. Is 49 ” 1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. 2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. 4Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God. 5And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. 6And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. 7Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.”   A servant to God who had been hidden in the palm of God now man from the Womb. So what if the enemies of Christ think he is God when he did not say so because we do not agree with his murderous enemies. He said he was the Son of God and we should rather believe him.

Great contribution, Nick.

[david]

Quote

I agree with pretty much everthing you said. But not the above. I would only add that the Reason they crucified the Messiah Jesus, was not just because he said he was the Son of God, but to the Jews he was claiming to be God.

John 10:33-36 (King James Version)
33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

In verse 33, we see that THE JEWS claim that Jesus was making himself God. This is how they wrongly interpreted what Jesus was saying. Remember, they also accused him of sedition, being a drunkard, a glutten, etc. Anything they could.
BUT NOTICE WHAT JESUS SAID IN VERSE 36.

Was Jesus claiming to be God? Or was it that Jesus “said” “I am the Son of God”?

What the Jews who wanted to kill Jesus believed about Jesus was clearly wrong. We should put a lot more into what Jesus himself claimed, in verse 36.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

John 10:33-36 (King James Version) 33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? In verse 33, we see that THE JEWS claim that Jesus was making himself God.  This is how they wrongly interpreted what Jesus was saying.  Remember, they also accused him of sedition, being a drunkard, a glutten, etc.  Anything they could. BUT NOTICE WHAT JESUS SAID IN VERSE 36. Was Jesus claiming to be God?  Or was it that Jesus “said” “I am the Son of God”? What the Jews who wanted to kill Jesus believed about Jesus was clearly wrong.  We should put a lot more into what Jesus himself claimed, in verse 36.

David

Yes we know Jesus was the Son of God, and is was the Word/God that was with the Father.

But the Jews knew full well what he was saying.

But if is isnt as you say…

The scriptures do say…
I Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Interesting the word manifest is, phaneroo which means: to make manifest or **visible** or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way.

What is more interesting is that Paul doesn’t use the Title Father [pater] when he so often does in showing the distinction between the Father and the Son, but he uses “Theos”.  

David why do you turn from what is written.

[Cubes]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 21 2006,02:29)

Quote Finally, from Genesis… certainly Deuteronomy, I was told to expect a messiah (prophet, servant) of God.  Not God himself in the form of a man. My post was to your comment above. I agree with pretty much everthing you said. But not the above. I would only add that the Reason they crucified the Messiah Jesus, was not just because he said he was the Son of God, but to the Jews he was claiming to be God. So I disagree with you that the Word/God didnt take on a body and was tabernacled among us.

God spoke things into existence and in due time, he sent his son and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

All things came into existence by and through the word… but it is God who gave the word and therefore is the possessor of the word.  God is in the word and the word is in God, naturally…

God is in his creation (Romans 1) and his creation is sustained in him.  

Of course God is above his son and above his creation.

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 21 2006,00:28)

Quote John 10:33-36 (King James Version) 33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? In verse 33, we see that THE JEWS claim that Jesus was making himself God.  This is how they wrongly interpreted what Jesus was saying.  Remember, they also accused him of sedition, being a drunkard, a glutten, etc.  Anything they could. BUT NOTICE WHAT JESUS SAID IN VERSE 36. Was Jesus claiming to be God?  Or was it that Jesus “said” “I am the Son of God”? What the Jews who wanted to kill Jesus believed about Jesus was clearly wrong.  We should put a lot more into what Jesus himself claimed, in verse 36. David Yes we know Jesus was the Son of God, and is was the Word/God that was with the Father. But the Jews knew full well what he was saying. But if is isnt as you say… The scriptures do say… I Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Interesting the word manifest is, phaneroo which means: to make manifest or **visible** or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way. What is more interesting is that Paul doesn’t use the Title Father [pater] when he so often does in showing the distinction between the Father and the Son, but he uses “Theos”.   David why do you turn from what is written.

Hi W,
So you admit that
you agree with the Jews
rather than Jesus???

Whom are you following then?

[Cubes]

Quote (david @ Dec. 21 2006,05:01)

What the Jews who wanted to kill Jesus believed about Jesus was clearly wrong.  We should put a lot more into what Jesus himself claimed, in verse 36.

Well said, David.

…I said, I am the Son of God?

[Cubes]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 21 2006,05:28)

Quote John 10:33-36 (King James Version) 33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? In verse 33, we see that THE JEWS claim that Jesus was making himself God.  This is how they wrongly interpreted what Jesus was saying.  Remember, they also accused him of sedition, being a drunkard, a glutten, etc.  Anything they could. BUT NOTICE WHAT JESUS SAID IN VERSE 36. Was Jesus claiming to be God?  Or was it that Jesus “said” “I am the Son of God”? What the Jews who wanted to kill Jesus believed about Jesus was clearly wrong.  We should put a lot more into what Jesus himself claimed, in verse 36. David Yes we know Jesus was the Son of God, and is was the Word/God that was with the Father. But the Jews knew full well what he was saying. But if is isnt as you say… The scriptures do say… I Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Interesting the word manifest is, phaneroo which means: to make manifest or **visible** or known what has been hidden or unknown, to manifest, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way. What is more interesting is that Paul doesn’t use the Title Father [pater] when he so often does in showing the distinction between the Father and the Son, but he uses “Theos”.   David why do you turn from what is written.

Hi W,

I agree 1 Tim 3:16 speaks of Jesus but disagree that by “theos” Paul meant that Jesus is the Living God.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of HIM from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by THE THINGS THAT ARE MADE, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Two different personalities.  

Again God is in his creation and the creation is in God; but he made and sustains his creation; his creation is subject to him therefore.  Similarly, he brought forth his own word and image and that word and image is subject to him as all the rest although with the major difference that he has put all things in subjection to his beloved son, Jesus Christ.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

God spoke things into existence and in due time, he sent his son and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us. All things came into existence by and through the word… but it is God who gave the word and therefore is the possessor of the word. God is in the word and the word is in God, naturally… God is in his creation (Romans 1) and his creation is sustained in him. Of course God is above his son and above his creation.

Cubes

There is no scriptural evidence that the Word had a beginning.

Jesus the Word was co-creator of “everything” including time and space.

No beginning for the Eternal life that John spoke of.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, So you admit that you agree with the Jews rather than Jesus??? Whom are you following then

NH

I would rather believe what is written in scripture rather than a rumor about Euisbus or however you spell it.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, I agree 1 Tim 3:16 speaks of Jesus but disagree that by “theos” Paul meant that Jesus is the Living God. Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of HIM from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by THE THINGS THAT ARE MADE, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. Two different personalities. Again God is in his creation and the creation is in God; but he made and sustains his creation; his creation is subject to him therefore. Similarly, he brought forth his own word and image and that word and image is subject to him as all the rest although with the major difference that he has put all things in subjection to his beloved son

Cubes

Thank you for your opinion!

[Cubes]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 15 2006,07:01)

Tell me does Genesis and Deutoronomy show that the Messiah would die and rise from the dead and be exalted above the heavens all power given to him in heaven and earth?

Some orthodox Jews question this very thing and have refused the messiah on account of it…. of course, they seem unwilling to consider the insights of Christ and the apostles in interpreting the 1st Covenant, so it makes our study harder without their cooperation.  But again, the word is nigh and not in heaven or under the depths for us to say who would go for us.  If we seek the LORD with all our hearts, we shall find him.

I was not aware of this line of questioning and reasoning till this past September 2006… It would demand some commitment to time and effort but now seems a good time to study the many messianic prophecies more indepth, and let them shape our understanding and Christology in the NT!  God knows we've gotten carried away and gone off on wide tangents before!  

We'll need to do it in a new thread unless NH can refer us to some existing ones.

Is 50:4 “The Lord God has given Me
The tongue of the learned,
That I should know how to speak
A word in season to him who is weary.
He awakens Me morning by morning,
He awakens My ear
To hear as the learned.
5 The Lord God has opened My ear;
And I was not rebellious,
Nor did I turn away.
6 I gave My back to those who struck Me,
And My cheeks to those who plucked out the beard;
I did not hide My face from shame and spitting.

7 “For the Lord God will help Me;
Therefore I will not be disgraced;  
Therefore I have set My face like a flint,
And I know that I will not be ashamed.  
8 He is near who justifies Me;
Who will contend with Me?
Let us stand together.
Who is My adversary?
Let him come near Me.
9 Surely the Lord God will help Me;
Who is he who will condemn Me?
Indeed they will all grow old like a garment;
The moth will eat them up. (Ps 102:23f, Heb 1:1f)

10 “Who among you fears the Lord?
Who obeys the voice of His Servant?
Who walks in darkness
And has no light?
Let him trust in the name of the Lord
And rely upon his God.
11 Look, all you who kindle a fire,
Who encircle yourselves with sparks:
Walk in the light of your fire and in the sparks you have kindled–
This you shall have from My hand:
You shall lie down in torment.

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 21 2006,06:23)

Quote Hi W, So you admit that you agree with the Jews rather than Jesus??? Whom are you following then NH I would rather believe what is written in scripture rather than a rumor about Euisbus or however you spell it.

Hi W,
Lots of things are written in scripture such as this about Jesus
Jn 8
“52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil.”
Jn 9
“29We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is. “
Jn 10
“20And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?”

We believe none of these because they are found in the mouths of his enemies.

Do you believe what his enemies said about him?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, Lots of things are written in scripture such as this about Jesus Jn 8 “52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil.” Jn 9 “29We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is. “ Jn 10 “20And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?” We believe none of these because they are found in the mouths of his enemies. Do you believe what his enemies said about him? ————–

NH

What do you think?

Weak…LOL:)

[Author]

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