Worship God the Father only?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
Worshiping Jesus is not the same as knowing him or loving him
and he told us true worshipers will WORSHIP THE FATHER in spirit and truth
and he is our Master and Lord…is he not?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 14 2006,02:11)

Quote To WorshippingJesus. Your conclusion about my writing is incorrect. I said that Jesus is the image of God. And we are MADE in the image of God. One difference is that Jesus wasn't made. So I never said that there was no difference, I outlined the difference, but you came to the wrong conclusion. The correct conclusion of what I wrote is that we were made and we will be like Christ. I will go further and say that Jesus Christ is the prototype and we are the copies. 1 John 3:2-3 2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure. t8 Sorry for the misunderstanding. Thanks for clearing that up. MY bad, as they say here in the states.

No probs WorshippingJesus.

Thanks

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Gen 24
26″Then the man bowed low and worshiped the LORD.

27He said, “Blessed be the LORD, the God of my master Abraham, who has not forsaken His lovingkindness and His truth toward my master; as for me, the LORD has guided me in the way to the house of my master's brothers.”

So he was at a well and had just spoken to Rebekah and was thanking and praising the God who is near to all of us and heard his prayer and hears our prayers.

Bowing down alone seems unlikely to be true worship.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Mk 7
“7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”

hmmm.

Our relationship with God does depend on our doctrines.

It is wiser to abide in the scriptures.

[NickHassan]

Hi ,

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Hebrews 13:15

Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name.

So our temple bodies belong to God in Christ and are indwelled by the Spirit of God Who helps us worship God.

[Cubes]

Quote

Cubes, I would have liked to have worked on this post a little more before I submitted it, but have several social engagements forthcoming that will keep me away from HN. I not sure I've made myself very clear in parts so will further develop some aspects in the future if need be, and when time permits. Cheers.

Hi Is:  Not a problem.  

Quote

I believe the scope of this “honour” would encompass worship….the Bible certainly places no restrictions on the honour rightly due to Yahshua, neither do I. Blessings

I would agree except in as far as such worship fails to recognize the Father as the God who rules and reigns over all.  Then again, that's where we disagree.

Quote

John 5:23 22″For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,  23so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

 That goes without saying.  For me, this works without the Son ever having to be GOD in the sense that you mean.  It works with the apostles who continued the work of Jesus and it works with us:  as the Father sent the son, so the son sends us.  He who honors us in Christ honors Christ, do they not…?
However we are not Christ and cannot expect to receive his specific glory.  Why then would he (the sent) receive the glory of he who sent him? Was it not he himself who said that a servant is not greater than his master?  But then we've had this conversation before.

There would hardly be any need for Christ to tell us this, or for the Father to have John prepare his way…in addition to various prophets, if Jesus is the same identity as Father God, as trinitarians claim.  Think about it.  After all, no one has ever seen GOD, so why the need to speak of such honor (he who honors me, honors the Father who sent me),  if in fact Jesus is YHWH?  Not to mention all the other scriptures that refute that notion such as Is 61 and Malachai 3:1, and Jesus driving merchants out of this Father's house, etc.

He is not the same identity (GOD).  Therefore to worship him as GOD rather than Lord as our Father commanded violates the first and greatest commandment and dishonors both the Father and his son, IMO.  

Quote

These expressions of praise and adoration, which are IMHO a form of worship in and of themselves, are the precursor to the acts of prostration in both instances (a common theme in the Revelation scenes) and I suggest to you Cubes that if what is described in Revelation 5:12-14 isn't divine worship (i.e. worship that can only be rightly received by the One true God) – then we actually have no scriptural frame of reference for WHAT divine worship actually IS. But we have already agreed that it is this kind of worship. It seems to me the multitudes are simply following the John5:23 mandate:

We do have frames of reference for what acceptable worship actually is but it begins from Genesis, as NH was pointing out.  The Psalms are also indispensible, as well as Jesus' own way of life.  When I hear the living creatures and elders praise the Father in Rev 4, it harmonizes w/ scripture from Genesis.  When I hear their accolades to the Son, it harmonizes with scripture as relates to him both in the first and second covenants, so I can put things in perspective:  I can understand that God has exalted his son to his right hand that every knee should bow before him and every tongue confess him as Lord, and that is what I see happening.  It reverberates the sound of all previous scripture.  Besides all that, we are told in the preceding chapter that the Father is God, and again in chapter 5 that the Father is God.  The son is clearly shown to be the Lamb of God and not God, and WHY he is worthy, in that he redeems us to our God.

Should we not take these details into account in shaping our understanding, given that we also have precedence of how others are rightly honored in worship who are not regarded as God?

Finally, from Genesis… certainly Deuteronomy, I was told to expect a messiah (prophet, servant) of God.  Not God himself in the form of a man.  So I plan to stick to plan A, the original plan as I do not recognize this new message of a God who is not a man, but then is a man; a God who sends but then is his own prophet and servant, a God who is creator, self-existing and eternal but then gets created/born of a woman, anointed and sealed by another God, is capable of dying and receives life from another God and is exalted by the same… a God who is T..H..R..E..E.., I mean Three in ONE!  Where were we told of such a thing?  The last I heard GOD is One, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!

As the son of God, I know to expect that (we are examples).  As the Most High God, there is no supporting evidence that God was ever a man, was born, anointed, died, raised from death….  

So there is my reasoning, Is.

Love ya.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Finally, from Genesis… certainly Deuteronomy, I was told to expect a messiah (prophet, servant) of God.  Not God himself in the form of a man.

Cubes

Isnt that what the Saducees and Pharisees looked for, and did they not miss the Messiah?

Tell me does Genesis and Deutoronomy show that the Messiah would die and rise from the dead and be exalted above the heavens all power given to him in heaven and earth?

Does it show that all things were made by him and for him?

Does it show that he was the Eternal life that was with the Father before all things and that by him all things consist?

Does it show That he the Lord God YHWH, would call him God and set him at his right hand, the highest place in the universe.

Does it show that the Lord God would give him a name that is above all names?

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Isa 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the ***church of God***, ***which he hath purchased with his own blood***.

Jude 1:25
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Isa 45:21
Tell ye, and bring [them] near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? [who] hath told it from that time? [have] not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Rev 1:8
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 1:11
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Deu 6:4  
Hear, O Israel: The LORD (Y'hovah) our God (Elohiym-plural) is one LORD (Y'hovah):

Blessings

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
Another dodo hunt?
You cannot see the wood for the trees confusing these few scriptures with the 2000 plus that speak of the one true God, the God and Father of Jesus.
Men love confusion.

Is 5
” 18Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:

19That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!

20Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

21Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

22Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

23Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

24Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. “

[Cubes]

Hi W,

I shall be without comp access for the better part of this weekend but I hope to respond to you at the earliest opportunity.

Have a blessed weekend.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 15 2006,21:01)

Quote Finally, from Genesis… certainly Deuteronomy, I was told to expect a messiah (prophet, servant) of God. Not God himself in the form of a man. Cubes Isnt that what the Saducees and Pharisees looked for, and did they not miss the Messiah? Tell me does Genesis and Deutoronomy show that the Messiah would die and rise from the dead and be exalted above the heavens all power given to him in heaven and earth? Does it show that all things were made by him and for him? Does it show that he was the Eternal life that was with the Father before all things and that by him all things consist? Does it show That he the Lord God YHWH, would call him God and set him at his right hand, the highest place in the universe. Does it show that the Lord God would give him a name that is above all names? Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the ***church of God***, ***which he hath purchased with his own blood***. Jude 1:25 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring [them] near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? [who] hath told it from that time? [have] not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Rev 1:8 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Rev 1:11 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD (Y'hovah) our God (Elohiym-plural) is one LORD (Y'hovah): Blessings

To WorshippingJesus.

If we stick to the same group of scriptures we can believe whatever we want to believe. After all this is exactly what cults do. Take a scripture here and there and build a completely different picture that was intended. But if we understand that there is one God the Father and that Jesus is his son, (as it is written) then you can read ALL scripture without having to invent a creed to try and make it work. The truth works on its own. There is no conflict in truth. But if we add in the Trinity, we create huge conflict and we have to become more philosophical in order to understand the confusion and then it appears that only the best brains claim to actually understand it. But the truth that Jesus taught can be understood by children.

WorshippingJesus, you also need to look at ALL the scriptures. There are hundreds of scriptures that clearly teach that God is the Father and Jesus is his anointed.

Now I was not sure of your point regarding Jesus doing things that were not in previously written but Jesus being seated at the right-hand of God is in the Old Testament, so why not believe it? While I am at it I will add in 2 more things that are also written:

His resurrection

Psalm 16:10 because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay.

Acts 2:31 Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay.

His ascension

Psalm 68:18 18 When you ascended on high, you led captives in your train; you received gifts from men, even from the rebellious— that you, O LORD God, might dwell there.

Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

Seated at the right hand of God

Psalm 110:1 The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Besides what is written, we also know that Jesus was a mystery.

Romans 16:25
Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,

Trying to add in the Babylonian concept of a 3 in one God or triune God is vanity, false, and is not supported in scripture.

I cannot understand why anyone would dedicate so much energy into something that is against God. What reward do you expect to receive?

Why waste your one life here on this lie? Would it be better not to teach and love the truth? Things would be better for you on judgement day and for others too.

[Worshipping Jesus]

.

Quote

To WorshippingJesus. If we stick to the same group of scriptures we can believe whatever we want to believe. After all this is exactly what cults do. Take a scripture here and there and build a completely different picture that was intended. But if we understand that there is one God the Father and that Jesus is his son, (as it is written) then you can read ALL scripture without having to invent a creed to try and make it work. The truth works on its own. There is no conflict in truth. But if we add in the Trinity, we create huge conflict and we have to become more philosophical in order to understand the confusion and then it appears that only the best brains claim to actually understand it. But the truth that Jesus taught can be understood by children. WorshippingJesus, you also need to look at ALL the scriptures. There are hundreds of scriptures that clearly teach that God is the Father and Jesus is his anointed. Now I was not sure of your point regarding Jesus doing things that were not in previously written but Jesus being seated at the right-hand of God is in the Old Testament, so why not believe it? While I am at it I will add in 2 more things that are also written: His resurrection Psalm 16:10 because you will not abandon me to the grave,      nor will you let your Holy One see decay. Acts 2:31 Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. His ascension Psalm 68:18 18 When you ascended on high,      you led captives in your train;      you received gifts from men,      even from the rebellious—      that you, O LORD God, might dwell there. Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. Seated at the right hand of God Psalm 110:1 The LORD says to my Lord:      “Sit at my right hand      until I make your enemies      a footstool for your feet.” Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Besides what is written, we also know that Jesus was a mystery. Romans 16:25 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, Trying to add in the Babylonian concept of a 3 in one God or triune God is vanity, false, and is not supported in scripture. I cannot understand why anyone would dedicate so much energy into something that is against God. What reward do you expect to receive? Why waste your one life here on this lie? Would it be better not to teach and love the truth? Things would be better for you on judgement day and for others too.

Hi t8

You say…

Quote

If we stick to the same group of scriptures we can believe whatever we want to believe. After all this is exactly what cults do. Take a scripture here and there and build a completely different picture that was intended.

That’s exactly what I see this forum doing.
“Well lets just see we have a few scriptures here that makes sense so lets just forget the others because they cant mean what they say.”

You say…

Quote

But if we understand that there is one God the Father and that Jesus is his son, (as it is written) then you can read ALL scripture without having to invent a creed to try and make it work.

This seems to be the theme around here. Jesus s the Son so he can’t be God the Father.

To me this is pure ignorance. No one with a Trinitarian view has denied the Son of God.

The very word Trinitarian says that.

It’s disingenuous to say that Trinitarians believe that Jesus is the Father

You talk about using a few scriptures to support a doctrine, well the theme scripture here is:

I Cor 8:6
But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

Trinitarian view does not contradict this.

You say…

Quote

The truth works on its own. There is no conflict in truth. But if we add in the Trinity, we create huge conflict and we have to become more philosophical in order to understand the confusion and then it appears that only the best brains claim to actually understand it. But the truth that Jesus taught can be understood by children.

If you don’t look at scriptures from a Trinitarian perspective then you have a huge hole in the scriptures, and you have to completely ignore many scriptures.

You say….

Quote

WorshippingJesus, you also need to look at ALL the scriptures. There are hundreds of scriptures that clearly teach that God is the Father and Jesus is his anointed. Now I was not sure of your point regarding Jesus doing things that were not in previously written but Jesus being seated at the right-hand of God is in the Old Testament, so why not believe it?

Why don’t you believe the scriptures that show plainly Jesus is also God?

You say…

Quote

Besides what is written, we also know that Jesus was a mystery. Romans 16:25 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, Trying to add in the Babylonian concept of a 3 in one God or triune God is vanity, false, and is not supported in scripture. I cannot understand why anyone would dedicate so much energy into something that is against God. What reward do you expect to receive? Why waste your one life here on this lie? Would it be better not to teach and love the truth? Things would be better for you on judgement day and for others too. Why do you spend so much energy trying to make Jesus less than the Father says he is?

Why do you spend so much energy making Jesus less than the Father declares. Your view of him is merely a man, or maybe a superman, who had some special powers from God. But in the end he is just a Son like you or I.

BTW, He is the co-creator with the Father and the Spirit.

Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 1:11
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto
Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Rev 21:
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Wouldn’t it be better to honor the Son as we honor the Father? Again show me where the Father commands us to not worship the Son or acknowledge him as God.

A Father has a Son they are two beings, but they are still human.

God has a Son, the Only Begotten, they are two beings, but they are still God.

Why is that so hard to understand? One Godhead Father, Son and Holy Ghost which Jesus explains is a person that the Father sends and Jesus sends.

This is scripture, and is the truth.

No I will not turn from the truth and accept a derivative of the Arian view that Jesus is not deity, God.

Matt 28:
17 And when they saw him, they ***worshipped him***: ***but some doubted***.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus acknowledges the 3, why don’t you?

Blessings[/B]

[Worshipping Jesus]

t8

BTW

Lets look at fruit.

There are thousands of trinitarian churchs world wide leading thousands of people to Jesus. Where is the fruit of your sect.

Please tell me I would like to know.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, Another dodo hunt? You cannot see the wood for the trees confusing these few scriptures with the 2000 plus that speak of the one true God, the God and Father of Jesus. Men love confusion. Is 5 ” 18Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope: 19That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it! 20Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! 21Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! 22Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: 23Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! 24Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. ”

NH

Do you even understand the scriptures you just quoted?

“You should read scripture with an open mind and heart and let it teach you'.

“Should we not respect and rely on scripture for truth as Jesus did if we follow him”?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
We preach Jesus so that in him men can meet the Father.
Jesus is not the finishing point
but the way,
the mediator between God, his Father,
and men.

If Jesus never was given life in himself then he remained one with God, but he was given life in himself. He is the unique and glorious son of God who BECAME ONE with his God.

Jn 5
” 26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; “

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, We preach Jesus so that in him men can meet the Father. Jesus is not the finishing point but the way, the mediator between God, his Father, and men. If Jesus never was given life in himself then he remained one with God, but he was given life in himself. He is the unique and glorious son of God who BECAME ONE with his God. Jn 5 ” 26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; ”

NH

Tell me who is seen in the end here?

Rev 1:8
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 1:11
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Rev 21:
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev 22:
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

[david]

It is clear, beyond a shadow, that the Father, “Jehovah is God.” (Ps 100:3)

Expressions we find in the Bible:

Jehovah God–50 times
the [true] God Jehovah–4 times
Jehovah their God–39 times
Jehovah the [true] God–8 times.
Jehovah is in truth God–1 time
Jehovah is God–1 time
Jehovah is my God–1 time
Jehovah is our God–1 time
Jehovah your God–455 times
Jehovah our God–105 times
Jehovah my God–40 times
Jehovah his God–29 times
Jehovah is a God–7 times
Jehovah the God of–204 times
Jehovah a God–1 time

So, about A THOUSAND TIMES or so, we are told specifically that Jehovah is God.
Also, about 43 times, we are told that Jehovah is God “Almighty.”

Jesus is called god or God about 3 times (about 7 or so if you're less picky) and not called Almighty at all (unless you try to make the scripture in Revelation apply to Jesus).

It's true that Jesus is referred to as God or Mighty God. And everything about him matches up with what the word “God” means.
Other's were called gods–judges, angels, Satan–and the word god applies to all of them as they are all “mighty.”

As the Son of God Almighty, Jesus is without question Mighty. In scripture he is called Mighty God, even. But his Father is without question “Al mighty.” There is grand difference between the two.

While on earth, the son directed worship to the Father. He quoted the Hebrew scriptures and directed worship to His Father, not himself.

The word translated worship is sometimes applied to Jesus, but that word has a number of meanings and can just as easily mean other things. Less and less Bibles are translating that word as “worship” with reference to Jesus, as they break away from wrong unsupported tradition.

Alpha and Omega.
To whom does this title properly belong?

(1) At Revelation 1:8, its owner is said to be God, the Almighty. In verse 11 according to KJ, that title is applied to one whose description thereafter shows him to be Jesus Christ. But scholars recognize the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 11 to be spurious, and so it does not appear in RS, NE, JB, NAB, Dy.

(2) Many translations of Revelation into Hebrew recognize that the one described in verse 8 is Jehovah, and so they restore the personal name of God there.

(3) Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be ‘sons’ of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his ‘brothers.’ (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ‘brothers’ of Jesus are referred to as “sons of God.” (Gal. 3:26; 4:6)

(4) At Revelation 22:12, TEV inserts the name Jesus, so the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 13 is made to appear to apply to him. But the name Jesus does not appear there in Greek, and other translations do not include it.

(5) At Revelation 22:13, the Alpha and Omega is also said to be “the first and the last,” which expression is applied to Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18. Similarly, the expression “apostle” is applied both to Jesus Christ and to certain ones of his followers. But that does not prove that they are the same person or are of equal rank, does it? (Heb. 3:1)

So the evidence points to the conclusion that the title “Alpha and Omega” applies to Almighty God, the Father, not to the Son.

david

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
The life is in the Son of God who is the way to God, not God Himself.

[Cubes]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 15 2006,07:01)

Quote Finally, from Genesis… certainly Deuteronomy, I was told to expect a messiah (prophet, servant) of God.  Not God himself in the form of a man. Cubes Isnt that what the Saducees and Pharisees looked for, and did they not miss the Messiah?

Hi WJ,  

Thanks for bearing w/my delays in getting back to you.

I am not sure about what you mean by the above:  Jesus came as the messiah/prophet and son of God, as he was prophesied to come… Some recognized and accepted him while others did not believe him to be the one and so rejected him as they still do.

Their rejection was not because of any misunderstanding of his nature, but that they didn't believe him to be THE MESSIAH and Son of God.  They believe in such a one though, as you well know… so it was Jesus they had a problem with.  Of course he happened to be the real deal.

Quote

Tell me does Genesis and Deutoronomy show that the Messiah would die and rise from the dead and be exalted above the heavens all power given to him in heaven and earth? Does it show that all things were made by him and for him? Does it show that he was the Eternal life that was with the Father before all things and that by him all things consist?

 
16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19 *And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private *interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but *holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

[Cubes]

To further clarify my response to your questions above, and speaking of my opinion, I believe that in order for the NT scriptures to be considered true, they would have to be in some way shape or form established in the first covenant: that's what the scriptures I cited are about.

If we do not readily see references and answers to questions such as you have above, it could be that we are not seeing or recognizing all the clues yet… God also builds on what he has already done giving us the types and shadows of physical things that are later revealed in a greater spiritual way and generally when we put such patterns together, they fit harmoniously from various angles with previously established truths as to assure us of the giver of the truth, so even for the apostles, they had to rely on scripture, and Jesus said of himself that scriptures are written of him… so that no prophecy is by private interpretation! So why would we think to do less?

When we find a new testament doctrine seemingly divorced from all scripture and precedence beforehand, then I feel that we can trust it if it builds on revealed truth, hold off on conclusions or suspect OUR TRANSLATION/INTERPRETATION thereof if it does not agree with other scriptures.

Hope that helps.

I realize that I have not answered your questions. Would try to focus on those in my next post.

Talk w/ you later.

[charity]

Cubes I have to say

I praise God for you and your words given.

I can’t tell you how much they have blessed me

Very very much

Nothing but tears

Thankyou

And for the guy’s I understand also you anger and frustrations to seek truth; everything is easy forgotten when the heart is noticed the desire is truly good intention

charity

[Author]

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