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Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2010,13:08) Quote (martian @ Aug. 15 2010,14:04) Sorry folks. Sometimes I must deal with the children. I am still looking for the rational to tell me the fruit of the doctrine of pre-existence. Show me how it benefits me and I will consider it.
Martiani was looking at your remarks and i jump away of my computer screen to let all your ego blow beside me not on me.
it is obvious to me you are not in a position to receive truth your heart is still full of ego.and we know God will not open the eyes of those blind who say they can see.
Pierre
Interesting remarks.Martian is one who has demonstrated humility. Over and over again.
His posts on the process he uses to allow scripture to speak for itself is a testimony to his humility before God and God's word.
He is not emotion driven.
He is not seeking to prove a preconceived idea.
He is not looking for brownie points from any man.
His heart's desire is to stand approved before God, II Timothy 2:15.
He seeks to please God, and not men.
By working within a logical process, he takes his own feelings, emotions, preconceptions and denominational teachings out of the picture. He discards them in order to read what God intended. He empties himself, so that God may fill him with God's words.
He is not perfect, but has demonstrated the maturity of one who truly seeks to do the will of the Father.
He has humbled himself under the mighty hand of God, and God has and will continue to exalt him.
That is what God wants for all of us to do. I am sure that we have all done this to some degree or other.
Martian is one who has excelled.
Jesus Christ might have been tempted to call on those 12 legions of angels. But he did not. Why? He subdued his emotions, he emptied himself of his own will in order to do the will of the Father, the only true God. John 17:3.
Martian to me, is a brother in Christ.
I stand for my brothers and sisters in Christ, whenever and where ever I can.
Believers have done this for me. I have learned to do it for them.
barley
barely………….Amen to that brother, martian has taken so much criticism from people here and insults that it is a wonder he even continues to post. He definitely has shown humility and sound teachings here. My hope is he does not get discouraged Here it would be a great loss. IMO
peace and lvoe to you and yours brother………………………gene
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 15 2010,19:17) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 15 2010,15:33) T8 and Martian………..It is also written the GOD created everything by (himself) and (alone). But you both chose to ignore it right?
Actually Gene, who is ignoring it?If God made all things, then it was him and no one else that made all things. If God made all things THROUGH Jesus, then it was still God and no one else who made all things, and it was THROUGH Christ and not another that he created all things.
Now we know that God created Eve, right?
And God made Eve through Adam, right?
And the head of the woman is the man, the head of the man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God, right?See, no contradiction, just harmony. Scripture is not in a state of contradiction Gene.
T8………You are forgetting one thing, GOD said He did it (ALONE) and BY (HIMSELF). Now does (ALONE) mean some one else was participation in the process, maybe i simple do not know what the word alone means , because according to you preexistences it should read together with Jesus.God does not create (through) beings He creates (IN) Beings He produces their thought and actions (IN) them they are programed by GOD to carry out His instructions , like angles he makes their Spirits (IN) them and send them forth to minister, Just like DNA it produces what it is Programed by GOD to DO. All thing subsist that Way. How do you think that God is (IN) ALL and and through (ALL) .
You have not shown (ONE) scripture that show (ANY) Preexistent actions of Jesus or His Preexistent Name, or His Preexistent Office or any Proof text to support you claims of a preexistent Jesus. Only text that you preexistences force to conclusions by inserting words that are controversial at best.
YOU produce no logic for GOD even doing it that way or purpose it would serve for him to Morph anyone and pass him off a Human Being. It would serve no purpose in the Plan for salvation of Mankind for him to do that. Think about it T8. Show us what purpose it would be for GOD to do that what does it prove to us Human beings. Was God saving preexistence beings or was it mankind he was dealing with?.
Your teaching only serves to separate Jesus from Man KIND and their Identity with HIM as a fellow Human being. It is most definitely Antichrist to deny Jesus' Humanity, IMO.
peace and love ………………..gene
Marian……> sorry i did not mean T8 and Martian , I meant T8 and Mike. sorry brother.
peace and love ………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 16 2010,02:32) Marian……> sorry i did not mean T8 and Martian , I meant T8 and Mike. sorry brother. peace and love ………………..gene
Gene! Again you are denying Scripture….. Col. 1!6 states that through Jesus all was created….and John 1:3 also states that through The Word all was made…. And that Word became flesh, just in case you are going to trow that out……
IreneIrene …………> as i have said before a (WORD) can (NOT) BE FLESH. It can only come to be (IN) a flesh person. Also we have shown here many times the translators could have just as easily used the word (for) or (because of) they all have the same Greek translation. But trinitarians trying to push their preexistence ideologies about the origins of Jesus force the text to say that , and You still have not dealt with where GOD said HE ALONE CREATED EVERYTHING AND BY HIMSELF. First get that straight in your mind, IMO
peace and love to you and Georg……………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 16 2010,03:00) Irene …………> as i have said before a (WORD) can (NOT) BE FLESH. It can only come to be (IN) a flesh person. Also we have shown here many times the translators could have just as easily used the word (for) or (because of) they all have the same Greek translation. But trinitarians trying to push their preexistence ideologies about the origins of Jesus force the text to say that , and You still have not dealt with where GOD said HE ALONE CREATED EVERYTHING AND BY HIMSELF. First get that straight in your mind, IMO peace and love to you and Georg……………………..gene
Hi Gene,First, anything is possible with God. If he spoke the word “buffalo” and then said, “Let it be flesh”, His word could become flesh.
Second, “the Word of God” simply means that Jesus is God's spokesman. And God's spirit spokesman did indeed become flesh.
Third, why didn't you answer my post about God ALONE created all?
mike
Quote (martian @ Aug. 15 2010,13:01) All the debates center on proving that Christ pre-existed, I want to know what purpose it serves. Did God do it so that we would have something to debate? How does this doctrine work? What does it do for the believer? How does it help me along the journey to become like Christ?
What kind of fruit does it produce in my life? How does it edify or build me up?
Hello Martian,To answer the question in the post…Why MUST Christ pre-exist? First of all there is NO imperative that he Must pre-exist…..the Bible says that he was the FIRSTBORN of all creation and is BEFORE all things and does pre-exist everything else that was created….the only “thing” before him was God.
However, if you really want to know about God look at His actions.
First act, pro-creation of His only begotten son. Son means that he is NOT God, the Father, whom he came from so, there is NO Trinitarian pre-conceived ideas.
Therefore, God wanted to have a family and is shown thru his first act.
Second act, creation of everything else THRU His son. Everything was BY, THRU and FOR Jesus. God made it and then gave it to His son.
Look at the creation account concerning Adam and Eve.
Gen 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Gen 1:28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
After God made Adam and Eve in His image, male and female, He then blessed THEM and told them to have a FAMIILY, protect the earth that was given to them and then to rule over everything on the earth that was created FOR them.
Exactly as God did in His life with His son.
Now look at our lives: We are adopted children of God. We are to multiply by making disciples and teaching them the truths and ways of Jesus. We are still to protect the earth we live on, and to care “over” the people under our discipleship.
When our bodies die we will be given an incorruptible body for our spirits in order to live with our God and Father, and with our brother, Jesus. Some will rule with him in his millennium kingdom and others will be priests, serving God….all for the betterment of all creation.
The Professor
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 16 2010,11:00) Irene …………> as i have said before a (WORD) can (NOT) BE FLESH. It can only come to be (IN) a flesh person. Also we have shown here many times the translators could have just as easily used the word (for) or (because of) they all have the same Greek translation. But trinitarians trying to push their preexistence ideologies about the origins of Jesus force the text to say that , and You still have not dealt with where GOD said HE ALONE CREATED EVERYTHING AND BY HIMSELF. First get that straight in your mind, IMO peace and love to you and Georg……………………..gene
Gene,You are too funny.
Here is the beginning of John 1:1 in Spanish:
Juan 1:1 En el principio era el Verbo,
As you can see they do not have “Word” but “Verb” for Jesus. And if you followed the chapter to verse 14 they explain that the “Word” is possibly a Name or Title for Jesus (pre Mary), and not a 'word” literally and became “flesh” (human). Hilarious.
And contrary to Trinitarians the “Word” became flesh and lived amongst us……not “God” whom the Word was WITH.
The Professor
Quote (Baker @ Aug. 16 2010,10:45) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 16 2010,02:32) Marian……> sorry i did not mean T8 and Martian , I meant T8 and Mike. sorry brother. peace and love ………………..gene
Gene! Again you are denying Scripture….. Col. 1!6 states that through Jesus all was created….and John 1:3 also states that through The Word all was made…. And that Word became flesh, just in case you are going to trow that out……
Irene
Irene,What you point out is so true. Also, as someone else said, “God alone did it.” Not evolution or any other theory. And your verses explain how God alone (no one else) did it THRU His son.
Therefore God's son is our Creator, but not our God. His Father alone is our God and our Creator (thru His son).
God is the Power, Jesus is the means.
The Professor
Quote (barley @ Aug. 16 2010,09:29) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2010,13:08) Quote (martian @ Aug. 15 2010,14:04) Sorry folks. Sometimes I must deal with the children. I am still looking for the rational to tell me the fruit of the doctrine of pre-existence. Show me how it benefits me and I will consider it.
Martiani was looking at your remarks and i jump away of my computer screen to let all your ego blow beside me not on me.
it is obvious to me you are not in a position to receive truth your heart is still full of ego.and we know God will not open the eyes of those blind who say they can see.
Pierre
Interesting remarks.Martian is one who has demonstrated humility. Over and over again.
His posts on the process he uses to allow scripture to speak for itself is a testimony to his humility before God and God's word.
He is not emotion driven.
He is not seeking to prove a preconceived idea.
He is not looking for brownie points from any man.
His heart's desire is to stand approved before God, II Timothy 2:15.
He seeks to please God, and not men.
By working within a logical process, he takes his own feelings, emotions, preconceptions and denominational teachings out of the picture. He discards them in order to read what God intended. He empties himself, so that God may fill him with God's words.
He is not perfect, but has demonstrated the maturity of one who truly seeks to do the will of the Father.
He has humbled himself under the mighty hand of God, and God has and will continue to exalt him.
That is what God wants for all of us to do. I am sure that we have all done this to some degree or other.
Martian is one who has excelled.
Jesus Christ might have been tempted to call on those 12 legions of angels. But he did not. Why? He subdued his emotions, he emptied himself of his own will in order to do the will of the Father, the only true God. John 17:3.
Martian to me, is a brother in Christ.
I stand for my brothers and sisters in Christ, whenever and where ever I can.
Believers have done this for me. I have learned to do it for them.
barley
Hello Oatmeal,You are full of mush.
Martian didn't use a single Scripture in this thread that I saw.
He asks questions for which he receives Scriptural responses and never yet has responded to the Scriptures, here or in the other threads. He avoids them and then goes to another question or topic.
You call this humility?
I call it @#$@%#@$%!
The fruit of knowing WHY God pro-created His son “first” is that we can see and understand God and His desire to have a family. And then He gives (gave) us His Commandments in Gen 1:28 to enjoy the fruits (and herbs) of creation.
Matthew 28, God's son was given all authority in heaven and earth and orders us to go and make disciples (FRUIT) with this authority that he gives us.
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 16 2010,04:42) Hello Oatmeal, You are full of mush.
Martian didn't use a single Scripture in this thread that I saw.
He asks questions for which he receives Scriptural responses and never yet has responded to the Scriptures, here or in the other threads. He avoids them and then goes to another question or topic.
You call this humility?
I call it @#$@%#@$%!
That's how I see it also David.Martian would rather quote a whole website from someone who agrees with him than to actually discuss the scriptures.
And humility? Please. He is the nastiest tempered poster on HN. He surpasses KJ.
Maybe oatmeal thinks it's cool and Christian for Martian to talk so direspectfully to Irene and to call me “Monkey Ministries” and dishonest, etc.
mike
So far Barley and Gene are the only ones that tried to answer the questions I posed. There are those like Mike and Irene that want to teach us what to believe.
1.It is said of me that I want Jesus to be like me for some wrong motive. The fact is just the opposite. My flesh would love nothing more then to have Jesus be different or have an advantage over me. That would give my flesh an excuse to say I cannot be like him in all things. It would give my flesh a reason to doubt as to what areas I can be like Christ and what areas I cannot. Can I have faith to obey God even unto death like Christ if Christ’s faith was based on info (from pre-existence) not available to me?
2.However, God called me in my Spirit and heart to want to FOLLOW JESUS. To go on the same path and make the same decisions based on the same info that developed the character of God in Christ. That is the whole purpose of Christianity.
3.Teaching bares fruit.
Acts 20:20 how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
Righteousness means staying on the right path. The path that Christ walked started in the same manner as me at conception he became a living human organism. He had to learn all he knew of God after his birth just like me. He had to be perfected and overcome temptation just like me. He had to learn to lay his life down for those around him. This is the path of righteousness that Christ taught. God did not give us a teaching that would give our flesh excuses. He gives teaching that is full proof and fool proof. A fool wants a doctrine that can give him an excuse to not be like Christ. The devil wants a doctrine that has an escape plan for our flesh to say “Hey I could never be like Christ because he was something other then what I am.” OR “Hey no one can really be like Christ.” In addition those that teach this doctrine can never tell me in what ways I can and in what ways I cannot be like Christ. They cannot tell me what info Christ had that I do not have. They cannot tell me what memories Christ had that I am lacking.
Christ the complete human trains me in righteousness because it shows me that I can have the same info from God, I can make the same decisions from that info as Christ and I can not just act like Christ but actually be like Christ in character.
When I see people comparing learning to make decision like Christ that lead to the character of Christ compared to 3/o’s leaning to climb trees like monkeys, I am flabergasted that such a person even claims to be walking with God. Do I have a righteous anger about that at times? You bet! I get angry to see my beloved’s mission so carelessly compared. Do I sometimes get in the flesh with that anger? Yes I guess I do. As Gene put it I am not perfect yet. However with another human’s example to follow I know that the perfection I seek in God is possible. I have seen it done by my fully human – non pre-existent brother, Jesus.Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 16 2010,04:42) Quote (barley @ Aug. 16 2010,09:29) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2010,13:08) Quote (martian @ Aug. 15 2010,14:04) Sorry folks. Sometimes I must deal with the children. I am still looking for the rational to tell me the fruit of the doctrine of pre-existence. Show me how it benefits me and I will consider it.
Martiani was looking at your remarks and i jump away of my computer screen to let all your ego blow beside me not on me.
it is obvious to me you are not in a position to receive truth your heart is still full of ego.and we know God will not open the eyes of those blind who say they can see.
Pierre
Interesting remarks.Martian is one who has demonstrated humility. Over and over again.
His posts on the process he uses to allow scripture to speak for itself is a testimony to his humility before God and God's word.
He is not emotion driven.
He is not seeking to prove a preconceived idea.
He is not looking for brownie points from any man.
His heart's desire is to stand approved before God, II Timothy 2:15.
He seeks to please God, and not men.
By working within a logical process, he takes his own feelings, emotions, preconceptions and denominational teachings out of the picture. He discards them in order to read what God intended. He empties himself, so that God may fill him with God's words.
He is not perfect, but has demonstrated the maturity of one who truly seeks to do the will of the Father.
He has humbled himself under the mighty hand of God, and God has and will continue to exalt him.
That is what God wants for all of us to do. I am sure that we have all done this to some degree or other.
Martian is one who has excelled.
Jesus Christ might have been tempted to call on those 12 legions of angels. But he did not. Why? He subdued his emotions, he emptied himself of his own will in order to do the will of the Father, the only true God. John 17:3.
Martian to me, is a brother in Christ.
I stand for my brothers and sisters in Christ, whenever and where ever I can.
Believers have done this for me. I have learned to do it for them.
barley
Hello Oatmeal,You are full of mush.
Martian didn't use a single Scripture in this thread that I saw.
He asks questions for which he receives Scriptural responses and never yet has responded to the Scriptures, here or in the other threads. He avoids them and then goes to another question or topic.
You call this humility?
I call it @#$@%#@$%!
The fruit of knowing WHY God pro-created His son “first” is that we can see and understand God and His desire to have a family. And then He gives (gave) us His Commandments in Gen 1:28 to enjoy the fruits (and herbs) of creation.
Matthew 28, God's son was given all authority in heaven and earth and orders us to go and make disciples (FRUIT) with this authority that he gives us.
The Professor
Davidbfun,
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the lord Jesus Christ,
Thanks,
I am mush,
oatmeal is cooked till it becomes mush. Evidently, I was cooked to perfection. Although I eat it raw sometimes.
Bread is rather boring for some people, without at least butter or jelly on it.
Who is the bread of life?
I love the bread of life.
I will happily wash it down with the living waters.
Did JC claim to be the eight course meal of life?
What and where are the scripture references for Jesus Christ's teaching say in Matthew 6:19-23?
Or Matthew 6:26-30?
Or Matthew 6:24-29?
What scripture did Jesus quote when he said, “Daughter, be of good comfort, thy faith hath made thee whole,” in Matthew 9:22?
Was Jesus Christ wrong?
Matthew 23:27. You are like whited sepulchres. Was Jesus Christ wrong?
No, he studied the OT enough to realize what was being taught in the OT.
God cares for those who serve God.
God heals those who believe God's promise to heal.
Martian has shared a great deal of scripture. I have read his posts and they represent scripture even when he did not give references.
Now, I like references because it allows me to read and reread and check context, but I don't always get them to my satisfaction either.
I've seen some of these scriptural responses that you refer to.
I personally do not respond to some because I don't feel like typing out Genesis through Revelation to some of these people. They can buy their own Bible and read it for themselves.
And you haven't avoided answering questions?
Martian is a humble man. He would not have spent the time he has searching the scriptures if he was not.
It is clear to me, that he wants to learn scripture for himself and not take the word of others for truth. Acts 17:11. That takes humility.
I would be very convenient and easy for me to accept the trinity and all that related stuff. But we must go to the word without preconceived notions. When we do that, we find the the trinity is not scriptural.
Have not you read that the Bible teaches that, “there is no God”?
It does, if you ignore the context. See Psalm 53:1. It says in the middle of the verse, that “there is no God”
The trinity and preexistence and all that stuff could be legit if you took scripture out of context, but then why believe that there is a God?
Your answer to Martian's question I have read. We can do that without preexistence.
How about you answer the questions in my post with scripture?
I will not repeat them. I sure you are capable of finding them for yourself. You set the pace, you set the example, you reply to all my questions with scripture. We'll see how far you get.
John 1:1 and all your other verses you guys love to post do not answer my questions.
Let's see how well you do.
oatmeal mush,
the companion in word and one of the younger brothers of the bread of life.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 16 2010,04:58) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 16 2010,04:42) Hello Oatmeal, You are full of mush.
Martian didn't use a single Scripture in this thread that I saw.
He asks questions for which he receives Scriptural responses and never yet has responded to the Scriptures, here or in the other threads. He avoids them and then goes to another question or topic.
You call this humility?
I call it @#$@%#@$%!
That's how I see it also David.Martian would rather quote a whole website from someone who agrees with him than to actually discuss the scriptures.
And humility? Please. He is the nastiest tempered poster on HN. He surpasses KJ.
Maybe oatmeal thinks it's cool and Christian for Martian to talk so direspectfully to Irene and to call me “Monkey Ministries” and dishonest, etc.
mike
It was not my intention to call you personally “monkey ministries” but to call your practices Monkey Ministries referring to the comparison you made detailed in the above post. As far as respect goes it is something that is earned and not just given. So far your methods for interpreting scripture do not warrant respect because of their dishonesty and irrationality.
As I have posted before, I could care less about convincing you. you are like the man convinced against his will. He is of the same opinion still. You are not willing to even consider that you might be wrong. The only reason I reply to your posts at all is for the benefit of those reading that they might learn from our exchange that your methods and resulting conclusions are wrong and dishonest. That they might see that your doctrines produce no positive fruit and in fact produce the negative fruit of hopelessness and doubt.It is as simple as this —
A completely human Christ produces hope that I can be perfected in like manner as Christ.
An augmented Christ (via deity or knowledge from pre-existence) produces doubt as to how much or even if it is possible to become like Christ.For me it is not about mental pictures of Greek verb tenses or doctrines. It is about the simple gospel of becoming like Christ. Show me teaching that moves me along that gospel plan and I am all in 100%. Show me teaching that places that path in obscurity and that teaching can take a hike.
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 16 2010,04:42) Quote (barley @ Aug. 16 2010,09:29) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2010,13:08) Quote (martian @ Aug. 15 2010,14:04) Sorry folks. Sometimes I must deal with the children. I am still looking for the rational to tell me the fruit of the doctrine of pre-existence. Show me how it benefits me and I will consider it.
Martiani was looking at your remarks and i jump away of my computer screen to let all your ego blow beside me not on me.
it is obvious to me you are not in a position to receive truth your heart is still full of ego.and we know God will not open the eyes of those blind who say they can see.
Pierre
Interesting remarks.Martian is one who has demonstrated humility. Over and over again.
His posts on the process he uses to allow scripture to speak for itself is a testimony to his humility before God and God's word.
He is not emotion driven.
He is not seeking to prove a preconceived idea.
He is not looking for brownie points from any man.
His heart's desire is to stand approved before God, II Timothy 2:15.
He seeks to please God, and not men.
By working within a logical process, he takes his own feelings, emotions, preconceptions and denominational teachings out of the picture. He discards them in order to read what God intended. He empties himself, so that God may fill him with God's words.
He is not perfect, but has demonstrated the maturity of one who truly seeks to do the will of the Father.
He has humbled himself under the mighty hand of God, and God has and will continue to exalt him.
That is what God wants for all of us to do. I am sure that we have all done this to some degree or other.
Martian is one who has excelled.
Jesus Christ might have been tempted to call on those 12 legions of angels. But he did not. Why? He subdued his emotions, he emptied himself of his own will in order to do the will of the Father, the only true God. John 17:3.
Martian to me, is a brother in Christ.
I stand for my brothers and sisters in Christ, whenever and where ever I can.
Believers have done this for me. I have learned to do it for them.
barley
Hello Oatmeal,You are full of mush.
Martian didn't use a single Scripture in this thread that I saw.
He asks questions for which he receives Scriptural responses and never yet has responded to the Scriptures, here or in the other threads. He avoids them and then goes to another question or topic.
You call this humility?
I call it @#$@%#@$%!
The fruit of knowing WHY God pro-created His son “first” is that we can see and understand God and His desire to have a family. And then He gives (gave) us His Commandments in Gen 1:28 to enjoy the fruits (and herbs) of creation.
Matthew 28, God's son was given all authority in heaven and earth and orders us to go and make disciples (FRUIT) with this authority that he gives us.
The Professor
For your info if you know what fruit is then it does not need scripture. This thread is not about debating one interpretation of scripture over another. It is about the end resulting fruit of those conclusions. That concept/question is always belittled by false teachers because false teaching will always produce bad fruit.Quote (barley @ Aug. 16 2010,14:12) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 16 2010,04:42) Quote (barley @ Aug. 16 2010,09:29) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2010,13:08) Quote (martian @ Aug. 15 2010,14:04) Sorry folks. Sometimes I must deal with the children. I am still looking for the rational to tell me the fruit of the doctrine of pre-existence. Show me how it benefits me and I will consider it.
Martiani was looking at your remarks and i jump away of my computer screen to let all your ego blow beside me not on me.
it is obvious to me you are not in a position to receive truth your heart is still full of ego.and we know God will not open the eyes of those blind who say they can see.
Pierre
Interesting remarks.Martian is one who has demonstrated humility. Over and over again.
His posts on the process he uses to allow scripture to speak for itself is a testimony to his humility before God and God's word.
He is not emotion driven.
He is not seeking to prove a preconceived idea.
He is not looking for brownie points from any man.
His heart's desire is to stand approved before God, II Timothy 2:15.
He seeks to please God, and not men.
By working within a logical process, he takes his own feelings, emotions, preconceptions and denominational teachings out of the picture. He discards them in order to read what God intended. He empties himself, so that God may fill him with God's words.
He is not perfect, but has demonstrated the maturity of one who truly seeks to do the will of the Father.
He has humbled himself under the mighty hand of God, and God has and will continue to exalt him.
That is what God wants for all of us to do. I am sure that we have all done this to some degree or other.
Martian is one who has excelled.
Jesus Christ might have been tempted to call on those 12 legions of angels. But he did not. Why? He subdued his emotions, he emptied himself of his own will in order to do the will of the Father, the only true God. John 17:3.
Martian to me, is a brother in Christ.
I stand for my brothers and sisters in Christ, whenever and where ever I can.
Believers have done this for me. I have learned to do it for them.
barley
Hello Oatmeal,You are full of mush.
Martian didn't use a single Scripture in this thread that I saw.
He asks questions for which he receives Scriptural responses and never yet has responded to the Scriptures, here or in the other threads. He avoids them and then goes to another question or topic.
You call this humility?
I call it @#$@%#@$%!
The fruit of knowing WHY God pro-created His son “first” is that we can see and understand God and His desire to have a family. And then He gives (gave) us His Commandments in Gen 1:28 to enjoy the fruits (and herbs) of creation.
Matthew 28, God's son was given all authority in heaven and earth and orders us to go and make disciples (FRUIT) with this authority that he gives us.
The Professor
Davidbfun,
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the lord Jesus Christ,
Thanks,
I am mush,
oatmeal is cooked till it becomes mush. Evidently, I was cooked to perfection. Although I eat it raw sometimes.
Bread is rather boring for some people, without at least butter or jelly on it.
Who is the bread of life?
I love the bread of life.
I will happily wash it down with the living waters.
Did JC claim to be the eight course meal of life?
What and where are the scripture references for Jesus Christ's teaching say in Matthew 6:19-23?
Or Matthew 6:26-30?
Or Matthew 6:24-29?
What scripture did Jesus quote when he said, “Daughter, be of good comfort, thy faith hath made thee whole,” in Matthew 9:22?
Was Jesus Christ wrong?
Matthew 23:27. You are like whited sepulchres. Was Jesus Christ wrong?
No, he studied the OT enough to realize what was being taught in the OT.
God cares for those who serve God.
God heals those who believe God's promise to heal.
Martian has shared a great deal of scripture. I have read his posts and they represent scripture even when he did not give references.
Now, I like references because it allows me to read and reread and check context, but I don't always get them to my satisfaction either.
I've seen some of these scriptural responses that you refer to.
I personally do not respond to some because I don't feel like typing out Genesis through Revelation to some of these people. They can buy their own Bible and read it for themselves.
And you haven't avoided answering questions?
Martian is a humble man. He would not have spent the time he has searching the scriptures if he was not.
It is clear to me, that he wants to learn scripture for himself and not take the word of others for truth. Acts 17:11. That takes humility.
I would be very convenient and easy for me to accept the trinity and all that related stuff. But we must go to the word without preconceived notions. When we do that, we find the the trinity is not scriptural.
Have not you read that the Bible teaches that, “there is no God”?
It does, if you ignore the context. See Psalm 53:1. It says in the middle of the verse, that “there is no God”
The trinity and preexistence and all that stuff could be legit if you took scripture out of context, but then why believe that there is a God?
Your answer to Martian's question I have read. We can do that without preexistence.
How about you answer the questions in my post with scripture?
I will not repeat them. I sure you are capable of finding them for yourself. You set the pace, you set the example, you reply to all my questions with scripture. We'll see how far you get.
John 1:1 and all your other verses you guys love to post do not answer my questions.
Let's see how well you do.
oatmeal mush,
the companion in word and one of the younger brothers of the bread of life.
Thanks Barley for the blessing. I receive it.I try to keep to the thread and post Scripture relevant.
2Ti 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
But as you stand before God what does he say to
do” Accurately handle the word of truth.The Bible has been quoted and shown how Christ pre-exists.
Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
Again, this is the will of the father….believe in Christ whom He sent. (In order to be sent he had to pre-exist).
2Ti 2:16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,
What does sending someone on a wild goose chase have to do with Christ's pre-existence?? Stay on topic.
May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 16 2010,04:42) Quote (barley @ Aug. 16 2010,09:29) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2010,13:08) Quote (martian @ Aug. 15 2010,14:04) Sorry folks. Sometimes I must deal with the children. I am still looking for the rational to tell me the fruit of the doctrine of pre-existence. Show me how it benefits me and I will consider it.
Martiani was looking at your remarks and i jump away of my computer screen to let all your ego blow beside me not on me.
it is obvious to me you are not in a position to receive truth your heart is still full of ego.and we know God will not open the eyes of those blind who say they can see.
Pierre
Interesting remarks.Martian is one who has demonstrated humility. Over and over again.
His posts on the process he uses to allow scripture to speak for itself is a testimony to his humility before God and God's word.
He is not emotion driven.
He is not seeking to prove a preconceived idea.
He is not looking for brownie points from any man.
His heart's desire is to stand approved before God, II Timothy 2:15.
He seeks to please God, and not men.
By working within a logical process, he takes his own feelings, emotions, preconceptions and denominational teachings out of the picture. He discards them in order to read what God intended. He empties himself, so that God may fill him with God's words.
He is not perfect, but has demonstrated the maturity of one who truly seeks to do the will of the Father.
He has humbled himself under the mighty hand of God, and God has and will continue to exalt him.
That is what God wants for all of us to do. I am sure that we have all done this to some degree or other.
Martian is one who has excelled.
Jesus Christ might have been tempted to call on those 12 legions of angels. But he did not. Why? He subdued his emotions, he emptied himself of his own will in order to do the will of the Father, the only true God. John 17:3.
Martian to me, is a brother in Christ.
I stand for my brothers and sisters in Christ, whenever and where ever I can.
Believers have done this for me. I have learned to do it for them.
barley
Hello Oatmeal,You are full of mush.
Martian didn't use a single Scripture in this thread that I saw.
He asks questions for which he receives Scriptural responses and never yet has responded to the Scriptures, here or in the other threads. He avoids them and then goes to another question or topic.
You call this humility?
I call it @#$@%#@$%!
The fruit of knowing WHY God pro-created His son “first” is that we can see and understand God and His desire to have a family. And then He gives (gave) us His Commandments in Gen 1:28 to enjoy the fruits (and herbs) of creation.
Matthew 28, God's son was given all authority in heaven and earth and orders us to go and make disciples (FRUIT) with this authority that he gives us.
The Professor
You say-Matthew 28, God's son was given all authority in heaven and earth and orders us to go and make disciples (FRUIT) with this authority that he gives us.
Reply-
Are we to use that authority to hold a spiritual gun or the scriptures to their head to make them act like Christ?
Are we to be hunters of men or fishers of them.
We are to exalt and hold up Christ to the world and say to them here is a brother made like you in all ways that has blazed a path to becoming like God in character. Here is proof that it is possible and you can have that character too. You have the same authority and information available to you.
OR
We hold up an augmented human that is not like you who blazed a path to becoming like God in character partially based on information that you cannot obtain. We cannot tell you how this information he had effected his decisions or even what that information is, BUT, we want you to follow and become like him in the same manner.Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 16 2010,06:43) Quote (barley @ Aug. 16 2010,14:12) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 16 2010,04:42) Quote (barley @ Aug. 16 2010,09:29) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2010,13:08) Quote (martian @ Aug. 15 2010,14:04) Sorry folks. Sometimes I must deal with the children. I am still looking for the rational to tell me the fruit of the doctrine of pre-existence. Show me how it benefits me and I will consider it.
Martiani was looking at your remarks and i jump away of my computer screen to let all your ego blow beside me not on me.
it is obvious to me you are not in a position to receive truth your heart is still full of ego.and we know God will not open the eyes of those blind who say they can see.
Pierre
Interesting remarks.Martian is one who has demonstrated humility. Over and over again.
His posts on the process he uses to allow scripture to speak for itself is a testimony to his humility before God and God's word.
He is not emotion driven.
He is not seeking to prove a preconceived idea.
He is not looking for brownie points from any man.
His heart's desire is to stand approved before God, II Timothy 2:15.
He seeks to please God, and not men.
By working within a logical process, he takes his own feelings, emotions, preconceptions and denominational teachings out of the picture. He discards them in order to read what God intended. He empties himself, so that God may fill him with God's words.
He is not perfect, but has demonstrated the maturity of one who truly seeks to do the will of the Father.
He has humbled himself under the mighty hand of God, and God has and will continue to exalt him.
That is what God wants for all of us to do. I am sure that we have all done this to some degree or other.
Martian is one who has excelled.
Jesus Christ might have been tempted to call on those 12 legions of angels. But he did not. Why? He subdued his emotions, he emptied himself of his own will in order to do the will of the Father, the only true God. John 17:3.
Martian to me, is a brother in Christ.
I stand for my brothers and sisters in Christ, whenever and where ever I can.
Believers have done this for me. I have learned to do it for them.
barley
Hello Oatmeal,You are full of mush.
Martian didn't use a single Scripture in this thread that I saw.
He asks questions for which he receives Scriptural responses and never yet has responded to the Scriptures, here or in the other threads. He avoids them and then goes to another question or topic.
You call this humility?
I call it @#$@%#@$%!
The fruit of knowing WHY God pro-created His son “first” is that we can see and understand God and His desire to have a family. And then He gives (gave) us His Commandments in Gen 1:28 to enjoy the fruits (and herbs) of creation.
Matthew 28, God's son was given all authority in heaven and earth and orders us to go and make disciples (FRUIT) with this authority that he gives us.
The Professor
Davidbfun,
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the lord Jesus Christ,
Thanks,
I am mush,
oatmeal is cooked till it becomes mush. Evidently, I was cooked to perfection. Although I eat it raw sometimes.
Bread is rather boring for some people, without at least butter or jelly on it.
Who is the bread of life?
I love the bread of life.
I will happily wash it down with the living waters.
Did JC claim to be the eight course meal of life?
What and where are the scripture references for Jesus Christ's teaching say in Matthew 6:19-23?
Or Matthew 6:26-30?
Or Matthew 6:24-29?
What scripture did Jesus quote when he said, “Daughter, be of good comfort, thy faith hath made thee whole,” in Matthew 9:22?
Was Jesus Christ wrong?
Matthew 23:27. You are like whited sepulchres. Was Jesus Christ wrong?
No, he studied the OT enough to realize what was being taught in the OT.
God cares for those who serve God.
God heals those who believe God's promise to heal.
Martian has shared a great deal of scripture. I have read his posts and they represent scripture even when he did not give references.
Now, I like references because it allows me to read and reread and check context, but I don't always get them to my satisfaction either.
I've seen some of these scriptural responses that you refer to.
I personally do not respond to some because I don't feel like typing out Genesis through Revelation to some of these people. They can buy their own Bible and read it for themselves.
And you haven't avoided answering questions?
Martian is a humble man. He would not have spent the time he has searching the scriptures if he was not.
It is clear to me, that he wants to learn scripture for himself and not take the word of others for truth. Acts 17:11. That takes humility.
I would be very convenient and easy for me to accept the trinity and all that related stuff. But we must go to the word without preconceived notions. When we do that, we find the the trinity is not scriptural.
Have not you read that the Bible teaches that, “there is no God”?
It does, if you ignore the context. See Psalm 53:1. It says in the middle of the verse, that “there is no God”
The trinity and preexistence and all that stuff could be legit if you took scripture out of context, but then why believe that there is a God?
Your answer to Martian's question I have read. We can do that without preexistence.
How about you answer the questions in my post with scripture?
I will not repeat them. I sure you are capable of finding them for yourself. You set the pace, you set the example, you reply to all my questions with scripture. We'll see how far you get.
John 1:1 and all your other verses you guys love to post do not answer my questions.
Let's see how well you do.
oatmeal mush,
the companion in word and one of the younger brothers of the bread of life.
Thanks Barley for the blessing. I receive it.I try to keep to the thread and post Scr
ipture relevant.2Ti 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
But as you stand before God what does he say to do” Accurately handle the word of truth.
The Bible has been quoted and shown how Christ pre-exists.
Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
Again, this is the will of the father….believe in Christ whom He sent. (In order to be sent he had to pre-exist).
2Ti 2:16 But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,
What does sending someone on a wild goose chase have to do with Christ's pre-existence?? Stay on topic.
May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
The Professor
Let me interject something here.
I agree with the scriptures you posted but not with the conclusions. Most of all that is posted here is opinion. there is so much that can be misunderstood from a document that is from 2 to 6 thousand years old, written in another language, in another land, and within a culture that is very very different from ours.
Any historian or language expert will tell you that there are certain rules one must use to come to proper interpretation of documents of this type.
I have posted several times the rules I use to come to my conclusions of what a particular scripture's original message was/is. I believe my rules to be fair and honest but I am willing to discuss alternatives. When I ask others to tell me by what rules or processes they come to their conclusions, I am told it is none of my business. And yet they expect me to just roll over and agree with them. You say I have an ego problem? What of the arrogance of those that expect me to blindly believe them?Even in the past few days I posted a thread on interpretation principles. I got little or no response. The truth is that most on here will not tie themselves to any kind of honest principles because they either fear or are sure their doctrine will not stand the test. They are about promoting their pet doctrine and not about rightly interpreting the word.
Quote (martian @ Aug. 16 2010,14:56) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 16 2010,04:42) Quote (barley @ Aug. 16 2010,09:29) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 15 2010,13:08) Quote (martian @ Aug. 15 2010,14:04) Sorry folks. Sometimes I must deal with the children. I am still looking for the rational to tell me the fruit of the doctrine of pre-existence. Show me how it benefits me and I will consider it.
Martiani was looking at your remarks and i jump away of my computer screen to let all your ego blow beside me not on me.
it is obvious to me you are not in a position to receive truth your heart is still full of ego.and we know God will not open the eyes of those blind who say they can see.
Pierre
Interesting remarks.Martian is one who has demonstrated humility. Over and over again.
His posts on the process he uses to allow scripture to speak for itself is a testimony to his humility before God and God's word.
He is not emotion driven.
He is not seeking to prove a preconceived idea.
He is not looking for brownie points from any man.
His heart's desire is to stand approved before God, II Timothy 2:15.
He seeks to please God, and not men.
By working within a logical process, he takes his own feelings, emotions, preconceptions and denominational teachings out of the picture. He discards them in order to read what God intended. He empties himself, so that God may fill him with God's words.
He is not perfect, but has demonstrated the maturity of one who truly seeks to do the will of the Father.
He has humbled himself under the mighty hand of God, and God has and will continue to exalt him.
That is what God wants for all of us to do. I am sure that we have all done this to some degree or other.
Martian is one who has excelled.
Jesus Christ might have been tempted to call on those 12 legions of angels. But he did not. Why? He subdued his emotions, he emptied himself of his own will in order to do the will of the Father, the only true God. John 17:3.
Martian to me, is a brother in Christ.
I stand for my brothers and sisters in Christ, whenever and where ever I can.
Believers have done this for me. I have learned to do it for them.
barley
Hello Oatmeal,You are full of mush.
Martian didn't use a single Scripture in this thread that I saw.
He asks questions for which he receives Scriptural responses and never yet has responded to the Scriptures, here or in the other threads. He avoids them and then goes to another question or topic.
You call this humility?
I call it @#$@%#@$%!
The fruit of knowing WHY God pro-created His son “first” is that we can see and understand God and His desire to have a family. And then He gives (gave) us His Commandments in Gen 1:28 to enjoy the fruits (and herbs) of creation.
Matthew 28, God's son was given all authority in heaven and earth and orders us to go and make disciples (FRUIT) with this authority that he gives us.
The Professor
You say-Matthew 28, God's son was given all authority in heaven and earth and orders us to go and make disciples (FRUIT) with this authority that he gives us.
Reply-
Are we to use that authority to hold a spiritual gun or the scriptures to their head to make them act like Christ?
Are we to be hunters of men or fishers of them.
We are to exalt and hold up Christ to the world and say to them here is a brother made like you in all ways that has blazed a path to becoming like God in character. Here is proof that it is possible and you can have that character too. You have the same authority and information available to you.
OR
We hold up an augmented human that is not like you who blazed a path to becoming like God in character partially based on information that you cannot obtain. We cannot tell you how this information he had effected his decisions or even what that information is, BUT, we want you to follow and become like him in the same manner.
Hello Nick,Is this where I am supposed to say “Topical”?
Nothing I saw in this response pertains to the thread so I will pass.
The Professor
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