Why is Jesus called the second Adam if you say he came from Adam???

This topic contains 42 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  t8 1 hour, 41 minutes ago.

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  • #845441
     t8 
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    Edj……if Jesus’ flesh “never”, saw corruption, he obvisely still has it. JUST THAT SIMPLE, no “mystery religion” needed.

    I guess I need to repeat it again for the hard of hearing. No one here denies that Jesus Christ was a man, so you can put aside any argument based on that as if it nullified his origin. Further, I noticed whenever it is mentioned that he is the firstborn of all creation, the usual response is he is the firstborn from the dead as if that nullified firstborn of all creation.

    Finally, God created the cosmos through the Word, through the Son of God, and we know that the Second Adam came from Heaven.

    Go ahead and preach another Jesus, one who is of Adam who passes on death to all. We will focus on the man from Heaven, who was the messiah when he was born, and one whom God created all things through and redeemed all things back to God. The perfect mediator between man and God.

    … to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

    #845449
     GeneBalthrop 
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    T8…..Your still stuck in false religion,  you quote only part of what is says as Jesus being the only mediator between man and God, it says, “the man” Jesus,  the “anointed ” ,  

    Tell us what does these scriptures mean to you.

    Mat 10:23, 16:13, 19:28, 25:31, 8:38, 15:39,

    Luk 6:22, 7:12, 9:26, 12:40, 17:22, 17:30, 18:8,

    John 8:28, 13:21,

    When you dig through all that, then here is another one you can chew on,.

    Acts 13:23….. Of (from) this man’s (David) “seed” has God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Savior, Jesus:

    Here is another of the ““many” scriptures that say Jesus is a Son of man even when he come back he still is refered to as a Son of man. Why is that T8, if he “really” was not a true “Son of Man”. 

    Luke 17:24….For as the lighting, that lights out  of one part under heaven shines unto the other part under heaven , so shall also be “the son of man” be in his day.

    Jesus is and always was a son of man,  who can into his existence as the “root and offspring of King David” just as Jesus himself says, he is now and aleays will be a son of man, and a Son of God , exactly as we will be.  All who seperate Jesus from his human root are liars, and are preaching a false Jesus.  The exactness of Jesus is all true believers goal.

    Just as it say,  “untill we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a “perfect” man, unto the measure of the stature of the “fulness” of Christ. 

    Why do you false teachers try so hard to make Jesus the man , so different then the rest of his brothers and sisters, would be the question, what spirit drives you to even try to do this?

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

     

    #845453
     Jodi 
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    t8,

    You absolutely do in fact deny that Jesus was a huMAN, an anthropos. You also deny the laws of God’s creation that He established, He made them a particular kind of living being a human being, male and female human beings, that through the male sperm and female egg according to God’s design more human life can be produced. Each different kind of creature God produced reproduces after their own kind.

    Your Jesus is a one of a kind separate being not an actual anthropos which are made from the sperm of a male and an egg of a female. The sperm plasma fuses with the egg’s plasma membrane. This starts the process of a new human life. Sperm and egg each equate to half the DNA needed to form a human and the sperm supplies the chromosome that will make the child a boy or a girl. God doesn’t have DNA, He invented DNA, DNA is made up of the same elements as the earth. If Jesus is called a human, you then know for FACT that he came from a male sperm and a female egg. 

    The book of the generation (GENESIS) of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

    The Holy Spirit came upon Mary so that she as a virgin for a sign to the house of David would give birth to a human child, the child that would know to choose the good over the evil because God’s grace would be upon him, a child prophesied to be anointed, called to righteousness, be made a little lower than the angels, to be made a Son of God, to be made a prophet greater than Moses, to be made a high priest, to be made perfect becoming our source for eternal salvation, wounded and die for our transgressions, to be raised from the dead not having his human flesh see decay but eternal life, to be made an eternal king over the throne of his father David.

    Jesus is a human who was anointed with the fullness of God’s Spirit, so to be led fully by the Spirit, so to be able to fulfill God’s will perfectly even unto his death.

    Jesus could do nothing of himself because he was actually a human just like you and me, he did all things through his anointing, God’s Spirit resting upon him leading him on a path of righteousness, as Jesus said why do you call me good, only God is good.

    Jesus was led into the wilderness with God’s Spirit upon him, he was tempted in the wilderness just like all humans are tempted, and he responded to that temptation never indulging in it saying, “MAN shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God”. Jesus was a human living by the word of God.

    The anointing of Jesus, Jesus made into the Christos, with Jesus not giving himself credit for anything, teaches us about our own lives, how we too cannot through ourselves obtain righteousness, we are incapable of keeping even just one letter of the law through ourselves.

    t8, do you understand that Jesus gave credit for all his works to his anointing at the river, NOT because of his pre-existence or because he was formed in Mary’s womb as a special one of a kind being?

    You take away the very identity that Jesus gives to us of himself of his greatness, you take away God’s glory and His word, that He would beget David’s son, that He would call the offspring of Jesse to righteousness, where he would hold this human’s hand, and keep him for a covenant for the people. He is a light through his anointing, the people beheld the glory of Jesus because he was anointed with the Spirit of Wisdom and Understanding and the people witnessed the human who was filled with grace and truth through that Spirit, the only human begotten by God, receiving glory that God’s word had said He would not give to any other human.

    #845459
     GeneBalthrop 
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    T8……Jodi and I are telling you the truth brother, time for you to take a hard look  and give up you false assumptions you aquired many,  many, years ago. I am telling you, and others here also, if you  can’t, “IDENTIFY ” with Jesus on a human level, you simply do not know the real Jesus, of scriptures.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    #845480
     t8 
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    T8…..Your still stuck in false religion,  you quote only part of what is says as Jesus being the only mediator between man and God, it says, “the man” Jesus,  the “anointed ” ,

    lol. Did you really think I didn’t know that. I have stated many times that Jesus is a man. He is the second Adam. The Word became flesh. Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

    Imagine if I kept saying to you that Jesus is not God. You would either think I was bearing false witness about your teachings or I was simply misunderstanding you and thus probably not worthy to debate you. But this is what you do regarding Jesus being a man.

    And if that is all you have in rebuttal to my post, then you have nothing. Simple as that.

    #845481
     t8 
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    Identify with Jesus on the human level.

    Duh! What do you think I am doing. I am human. He became human and now I hope one day to have  a glorious body like his. He calls the children of God as brothers.

    You know it would be a good idea if you actually tried disproving what I believe instead of imagining false things.

    Constant error does make one question regarding what spirit you are under. The Spirit of Truth would certainly not lead you into this much error Gene. What do you think?

    #845483
     GeneBalthrop 
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    T8…..scripture says Jesus came in the flesh,  so Jesus himself was  a flesh person, “right”? , but you say he was the word, who was another being who came  in the flesh,  a morphed being  of somekind right?. , in that way you are denying, his only  true existence as flesh?

    John was not saying Jesus was a alien who came in the flesh of a human, as you believe right?, you tell us the “word” which you believe to be a different person then God became a flesh being, that is wrong. For one thing no” words can be flesh, that is impossible, because words come from spirits they are not flesh, “the flesh prophits nothing” , they can only come to be “in” flesh all human flesh, they are in us as well as  in Jesus, and if you have the Hol Spirit in you his words abide in you also. We are exactly the same  as Jesus is in that reguard GOD’S WORDCAN ABIDE IN US THE EXACT SAME WAY IT ABODE IN JESUS.

    So when you say Jesus “is” the word who came ,  you have to be saying “he” himself  is not a flesh being, hence denying him coming into his “true existence” as a flesh person, just like we are. 

    Thats what John was talking about, Jesus ‘ actually comming into his  “only” true existence , was as a flesh and blood human being.

    Jodi has clearly explained, in the sense of Jesus being the word of God, he was the fulfillment of God’s word, to us, so in that sense he was the word of God,  shown in the flesh to us fulfilled. Surely to do know that a actual word can not be flesh, don’t you?

    Jodi has explained it clearly, go read it and think about it, you must come to see Jesus as one of us human being, an ordinary prophesied human being who God the Father fornew and  perfected and exalted to the highest position afforded any human being.  He never prexisted his birth on this earth, he only existed in the mind and will of God, who through the prophets told of his comming as a fellow human being. He still is a human being T8.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

    #845516
     Ed J 
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    Second, I don’t believe that Jesus was an ordinary human, he was a human who fulfilled Isaiah’s prophecy, receiving glory that the LORD would not give to any other, glory being made an only begotten Son of God’s Spirit, full of grace and truth.

    Hi Jodi,

    You have a dilemma with your ordinary Jesus belief (How do you explain this?)…

    John 17:5
    “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #845517
     Ed J 
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    Hi Ed J and t8,

    God’s creation tells you that to be a HUMAN of which Jesus is called multiple time means that you are made from a human male sperm and a human female egg united together. You cannot be an actual man or huMAN if these TWO are not joined together,

    Hi Jodi,

    Your belief seems to be at odds with these Scripture. How do you account for this?

    Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #845518
     Anthony 
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    Hi Gene and Jodi

    You said: Edj were telling you the truth.

    Me: really, I think you two are liers. For one, flesh and blood can’t enter into heaven, but Jesus Christ did, he was changed to a spiritual body before He got there and then He; sprinkled His blood in the heavenly Sanctuary for us.

    It seems to me only fair to Jesus to listen to what he said about who he was. Let me tell you about one event in his life, that you can read about in the gospel (the biography) of Jesus written by John. Jesus called himself “I AM”, and the people listening picked up rocks and tried to stone him! Why? Because “I AM” is the Old Testament name for God, and the people listening understood that Jesus was indeed calling himself God.

    So you see, that’s what Jesus had to say about himself—not that he was a great teacher, but that he was much much more than that.

    Now of course, anyone can say that they’re God! The amazing thing about Jesus is that he backed up what he said with what he did. It’s hard to examine Jesus’ life and think he’s just a great historical figure. His miracles are astounding. He healed people, he brought them back from the dead, he changed water into wine, he even walked on water.

    My point is this—a great man, a great moral teacher, wouldn’t have made the claims that Jesus made, and wouldn’t have had the power to do the things that Jesus did.

    God bless

    #845526
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Gene and Jodi

     

    Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is MAN, that thou art mindful of him?

    Me: This is speaking of all men, NOT INCLUDING the Messiah.

    Heb 2:6 OR THE SON OF MAN, that thou visitest him? 10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the CAPTAIN OF SALVATION perfect through sufferings.

    Me: This is speaking of the MESSIAH ONLY. I believe at this point, it is the SON OF GOD of MAN.

    Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put ALL THINGS SUBJECTED UNDER HIS FEET. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see JESUS, who was made A LITTLE LOWER THAN ANGELS for the SUFFERING OF DEATH, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    Me: This passage is addressing Jesus as master over all things, including men. Who was made “a little lower than angels” in the flesh? It is referring to the Messiah, not the rest of us. He was the “only begotten son of God” at birth. His flesh did not come down from the first Adam, for he IS THE SECOND ADAM. It relates to 1 Cor 15:27-28 below. Like the first Adam, he did not need to die. But the first Adam died because of sin. Death was passed down to ALL MEN by which they sin. All men do not include the messiah. His flesh was a higher order of man—“made a little lower than angels”.

    Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon ALL MEN, (eph ho: by which) all have sinned.

    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/5-12.htm

    Me: Death is what causes us to sin. It is the opposite of life which causes righteousness.  Sin and death was passed on by the first Adam to that lineage.  Christ is the second Adam–the beginning of a new creation.

    1 Cor 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith ALL THINGS (this includes all men) are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the RESURRECTION of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    Me: Christ could not have been resurrected from the dead if he had had flesh like ours from the first Adam.  He is the second Adam.

    Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the SON OF GOD with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

    1 Cor 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

    Me: God gave the seed of David a body a little lower than the angels, not of man with death and sin in his flesh.

    Heb 1:4 BEING MADE SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE ANGELS as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    Me: At his glorification, Christ was made so much higher than the angels. The Messiah is no longer called the son of man after his resurrection from the dead. He is referred to “LIKE THE SON OF MAN” and not “son of man” in Rev 1:13 and Rev 14:14. Click the link below and see.

    https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=son+of+man&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_4

     

    #845527
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Jodi and Gene (notice I put Jodi first, the mentor)

     

    Therefore

    1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see him as he is.

    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/2-17.htm

    “Therefore it behooved [Him] in all things [his] brothers be made like” in the link above does not need to be rendered as:

    Heb 2:7 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto HIS BRETHREN

    Me I could and should be rendered as:

    Heb 2:7 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like HIM…

     

    Otherwise, 1 John 3:2 contradicts Heb 2:7

    Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

     

    Me: We put on a new man after the seed of David or the heart and soul of David.

    Ezk 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    Jodi and Gene:

    You separate man from God.

    #845529
     Truthcomber 
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    Correction:

     

    “Therefore it behooved [Him] in all things [his] brothers be made like

    Heb 2:7 “Therefore it behooved [Him] in all things [his] brothers be made like HIM

    #845544
     GeneBalthrop 
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    TC….First of all Heb 2:6,  is dealing with all mankind in a “general” sense, it was not talking specifically  about Jesus till Heb 2:9. Jesus is being shown as already given what God has “purposed”  for all of mankind.

    Why are you always trying to change simple scriptures to say or mean something else all the time.

    Heb 2:5-11, is one of the greatest scripture given for the human race it is all about God’s purpose for all of mankind.  There is no secret meaning in any of those scriptures. TC your changing to many scriptures to fit your personal conceptions of them.

    TC…..It’s you that is preaching a “Doctrine of Seperation”,  are you not seperating Jesus from his brothers and sisters, proof is in how you try to change Heb 2,  to say what it is not saying.

    O and by the way I known the things Jodi saying way before I ever knew Jodi on here, we both have one mentor, that is the Spirit of truth we have recieved from God the Father. Me or her have no need of a teacher , for the spirit itself reveals the truth to us,  that is why we agree with each other.  That is why we say the same things over and over.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene

    #845547
     Truthcomber 
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    Gene,

     

    True, we went through this before over and over.  So I am going to ignore you.

     

     

    #845548
     Truthcomber 
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    So when was the Word of God in existence?
    Was it before creation?

    John 1:1 In the beginning was (1510 existed) the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express (exact) image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    1510. eimi:existed) I exist, I am

    NASB Translation
    accompanied* (1), accompany* (2), am (138), amount (1), amounts (1), appear* (1), asserted* (1), become* (5), been (45), been* (1), being (26), belong (3), belonged* (1), belonging (1), belonging* (1), belongs (4), bring* (1), came (1), come (5), consist (1), crave* (1), depends* (1), do (1), done* (1), exist (3), existed (4), existed* (1), falls (1), found (1), had (8), happen (4), have (2), have come (1), lived (1), mean (1), mean* (2), means (7), meant (2), originate (1), owns (1), remain (3), remained (1), rest (1), sided (1), stayed (2), themselves (1), there (6), turn (1).

    Me: The Word is the exact image of God’s mind. “Beginning” does not mean from eternity. The original always precedes the copy. The father always precedes the son. When is the beginning?

    Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth

    Me: I believe it is the beginning of this physical creation.

    Young’s Literal Translation
    Rev 1:8 ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord (kurious), who is, and who was, and who is coming — the Almighty.’

    Me I also believe that he is the end of the physical creation and the beginning of the new or spiritual creation.

    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    New American Standard Bible
    Rom 8:19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

    Young’s Literal Translation
    Micah 5:2 And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth — to be ruler in Israel, And his comings forth are of old, From the days of antiquity (5769).

    Strong’s Concordance
    5769 olam: long duration, antiquity, futurity
    Original Word: עוֹלָם
    Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
    Transliteration: olam
    Phonetic Spelling: (o-lawm’)
    Definition: long duration, antiquity, futurity

    #845549
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi All,

    John 1:10 a He was in the world, and the world was made (1223: by or through) him,…
    John 1:10 b He was in the world, and the world was made (1223: on account of) him…

    Strong’s Concordance
    1223 dia: through, on account of, because of
    Original Word: διά
    Part of Speech: Preposition
    Transliteration: dia
    Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ah’)
    Definition: through, on account of, because of
    Usage: (a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of.

    Me so it could be either one of John 1:10 a or John 1:10 b or both at this point.

    Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by (1223) him, and for (1223) him:

    https://biblehub.com/lexicon/colossians/1-16.htm

    Col 1:16 uses both meanings of “1223 dia”. But that was the author’s choice. He could have just used one.

    Prov 16:4 YHWH hath made all things for himself:

    Me: This verse seems to confirm Col 1:16 that God made all things for himself.

    Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by (1223) whom also he made the worlds;

    Christian Standard Bible
    Psalm 33:9 For he spoke, and it came into being; he commanded, and it came into existence.

    Me: The Word (exact spiritual image of God) made the physical universe and is creator of the new universe through the Messiah.

    #845550
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi All,

     

    Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith YHWH; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

    Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant (me: marriage covenant) that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an HUSBANDunto them, saith YHWH:

    Me: The Old husband was the Word (image of the mind) of God.

    Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be MARRIED TO ANOTHER, EVEN TO HIM WHO IS RAISED FROM THE DEAD that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    Me: The new husband is the Messiah raised from the dead so man can now be baptized in the holy spirit.  Those of the holy spirit with Christ in it is the new Israel, whether Jew or gentile.

    Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, MADE OF A WOMAN, MADE UNDER THE LAW.

    Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and HER SEED; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    Me: Mary’s chromosomes provided the female side of Christ. The male side was provided by God whereby the offspring was made a little lower than the angels. Death must have been passed on by the male chromosomes.

    Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one MAN (444) sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all MEN (444), (by which) all have sinned:
    anthrópos: A MAN, human, mankind
    Original Word: ἄνθρωπος, ου, ὁ
    Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
    Transliteration: anthrópos
    Phonetic Spelling: (anth’-ro-pos)
    Definition: a man, human, mankind
    Usage: a man, one of the human race.

    Me: In light of the scriptures just presented, I feel man and not mankind is the appropriate definition here. David’s physical genes must have come through Mary. Anyway, The Word ( exact spiritual image of God) became one with the genes of Mary and the genes provided by God, but not of God because God is spirit (mind of the spirit).

    #845551
     Truthcomber 
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    Gene:

     

    Like Eve was hypnotized by the devil to succumb to temptation, so are you hypnotized by your false doctrine which you are trying to hypnotized others here.  It is not working.  Stronger is God in us then the devil in you.

    #845552
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 960

    Hi Gene

    Your wrong if you are trying again to make out that Jesus Christ is just a man.

    God bless

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