Who is this Jesus?

[GeneBalthrop]

Daniel………Then who was Jesus'. GOD, why would he need to go to HIS GOD and OUR GOD, if he was OUR GOD. , the word “AND”, does not in most cases detect the same thing. Jesus said the father who is God was “in” him, so obviously  Gods presence was their, residing in Jesus, but that in no way makes Jesus, the God that was “in” him. When Thomas said, my lord “AND” my God , he simply came to understand God the Father through the eternal spirit was “in” Jesus, and as a result acknowledged both Jesus as his Lord present “AND” God the Fathers spiritual presence was there also. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene

[4Thomas]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 02 2013,01:16)

Daniel………Then who was Jesus'. GOD, why would he need to go to HIS GOD and OUR GOD, if he was OUR GOD. , the word “AND”,  does not in most cases detect the same thing. Jesus said the father who is God was “in” him, so obviously  Gods presence was their, residing in Jesus, but that in no way makes Jesus, the God that was “in” him. When Thomas said, my lord “AND” my God , he simply came to understand God the Father through the eternal spirit was “in” Jesus, and as a result acknowledged both Jesus as his Lord present “AND” God the Fathers spiritual presence was there also. IMO Peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene

Hi Gene,
Thanks for your reply,
Of course Jesus as a man is a man also
so his Father has become his God – as a man.

My earthly father isn't my God. If I could also become something he created say a person in a program or game or a piece of software he created and we agree I was going to enter his program and he was going to create me in this then my Father with also become my creator in the program.

Gene WHY are we called explicitly ADOPTED SONS???
WHY is Jesus referred to as ***THE*** Son or why is he referred to as *the* ONE and ONLY SON.

Gene do you believe Jesus is an adopted Son?

Do you Believe he is The True Son of God [not adopted].

If you believe he is the True Son of God, please for the sake of truth my friend, how on earth is it possible for a TRUE non adopted Son NOT have the same nature, essence and substance of his Father especially when he is derived from the FATHER ALONE.

One God is essence/nature that is eternally Almighty.
The human race is created in gods image, male and female but both are humans and equal even though the Eve came from Adam and has less authority than him she is to equal.

Jesus is THE Son of God, the eternal expression substance of the Father, Jesus isn't the father yet he has the same nature [THE Son] and is the reciprocal [Not another Father] so he alone can communicate on a level no eye or ear could ever comprehend or understand.

Think like a child is your Mother human???
Image me trying to have a debate with you that your Mother had a different nature to you, especially if you where dervied from her substance genes and dna ALONE. Sure you would be a different person but hey its real simple stuff you would have the same nature.    

Gene, what is Jesus to you?
A man alone
A arch angel that became a man
Just a VERY GOOD man that the Father made the reason for everyone??

I would really appreciate knowing because Jesus said we would die in our sins if we didn't believe he was from above, when he said you will die in your sins unless you believe I AM HE.

So what is he my Friend?

Life in the Son and in his name.
The one and only way to the Father
Above every organisation everychurch every prophet every name that is name in heaven and earth, he is My Lord and My God, he is Peter Pauls the early Church and even Doubting Thomas God.
I sincerely want you to know him and know there is no condemnation in him but instead Life and freedom and blessings and riches and glory and honor and the power to pray and be answered. Know the truth and let the truth set you free because Jesus is THE Truth and he is Also revealed Explicitly in scripture as being in the Father ALSO.
And scripture explicitly states Thomas said to HIM [Jesus]
otherwise scripture would have said thomas said to them or Thomas said My Lord and My God.
See the explicit fact that Thomas said TO HIM explicitly states that he wasn't just saying oh my God you are reasons as using Gods name in vain but Thomas Actually said to Jesus [to HIM] my Lord and My God… Why because he knew the scripture Where Jehovah/Yahweh the first and the last the alpha and the omega SAID you will look upon **me** the one you have pierced.

Take care and i'm not trying to get you to join my explicit beliefs but what i would like because I love people and want them to be saved is to know Jesus THE Son of God and to believe in his name so you are condemned.

Daniel

[terraricca]

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Jesus is my Lord and my God

this is your view and so it is not from God ;you have taken Thomas a confused man that at first did not want to believe ,then he express himself in an emotional way still confused ,of the reality of his doubts ,and so you have pick him to be your guide you are not looking for truth as regarded to its source;

Paul never made Christ a god to be worship but honored and respected ,so it is with Peter and John,

the fact that Christ was created the very first of God 's creation and out of God the father nature WAS THE VERY REASON WHY CHRIST COULD INTERCEDED FOR MEN AND SAVE ANYONE THAT BELIEVES IN HIM ;THIS IS SO WELL SPELL OUT IN SCRIPTURES I WANDER WHY YOU MIST IT

i am sad that you ad to make your own story about who is God and who is not ;but you did just that ;

when scriptures says to be submit to God what would mean NOT TO MAKE YOUR OWN BUT TAKE AND ACCEPT AS IT IS WRITTEN ,IN THE ENTIRE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD SINS THE BEGINNING.

[4Thomas]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2013,03:24)

Quote Jesus is my Lord and my God this is your view and so it is not from God ;you have taken Thomas a confused man that at first did not want to believe ,then he express himself in an emotional way still confused ,of the reality of his doubts ,and so you have pick him to be your guide you are not looking for truth as regarded to its source; Paul never made Christ a god to be worship but honored and respected ,so it is with Peter and John, the fact that Christ was created the very first of God 's creation and out of God the father nature WAS THE VERY REASON WHY CHRIST COULD INTERCEDED FOR MEN AND SAVE ANYONE THAT BELIEVES IN HIM ;THIS IS SO WELL SPELL OUT IN SCRIPTURES I WANDER WHY YOU MIST IT i am sad that you ad to make your own story about who is God and who is not ;but you did just that ; when scriptures says to be submit to God what would mean NOT TO MAKE YOUR OWN BUT TAKE AND ACCEPT AS IT IS WRITTEN ,IN THE ENTIRE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD SINS THE BEGINNING.

You are joking ?

Thomas was doubting that Jesus was resurrected and pierced
Zechariah 12:10….They will look on **me**, the one they have pierced…  

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Will I die in my Sins if I proclaim Jesus as **MY** Lord and **MY** God, like Thomas or will I be called blessed like my Lord and my God proclaims….. I will follow Jesus.
Jesus doesn't just have the truth but instead HE is THE TRUTH.

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

So Jesus is a true God but hes not YOUR true God?

So you DON'T belong to Jesus??

If Jesus is a true God then **whose** true God is he T?
**PLEASE ANSWER this** but I know you can't because you will look silly, What does this say?

And the Word was God…without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 

Or is Jesus just your Guardian arch angel?

I have so many question you cant answer and can easily answer all of yours with explicit scripture.
I'm trying to spell this out to you because I care!!!

I have a very busy life and i'm only here because I care and want to set people free in Jesus, the one and only True Son of God.

Sorry T your scripture knowledge is blinded by the organisation you must follow you cant even admit that scripture teaches that Jesus should be worshipped.
T even the jws admitted this upto the 1950's.

Lets open a debate on if Jesus should be worshiped and look at the tonne of scriptures that explicitly spell this out.
This is the heart of the issue.

I believe you sin in your forceful nature you deny the simple truth that the one and only Son has the same nature as his Father…

Or does Jesus have just one nature man alone? or is he man and angel? Please show me the scriptures…

Please open a debate just me and you and lets post there, Just understand I may not check this forum for days sometimes as I just simply can't due to other commitments.

Jesus is my God my nature from his Father,
All Fathers and Sons have the same nature, its really not hard to understand.

New International Version
Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.

English Standard Version
Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods.

New American Standard Bible
However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.

King James Bible
Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But in the past, when you didn't know God, you were enslaved to things that by nature are not gods.

International Standard Version
However, in the past, when you did not know God, you were slaves to things that are not really gods at all.

NET Bible
Formerly when you did not know God, you were enslaved to beings that by nature are not gods at all.

Life and love in the name of Jesus,
Daniel

[terraricca]

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You are joking ?

NO i NEVER JOKE WHEN I DEAL WITH SCRIPTURES ,

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Thomas was doubting that Jesus was resurrected

JN 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

Jn 20:25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.”

Jn 20:21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”
Jn 20:22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

SO LET SEE WHAT REALLY HAPPEN THEIR WHERE 10 PRESENT AT THE LORD ARRIVAL BEFORE THEM BUT ACCORDING TO WHAT THOMAS SAYS HE DECLINE THE 10 WITNESSES AND SO ONLY RELY ON HIS OWN VIEW,BUT NOT BEING THERE AS ALREADY PUT HIM ONE STEP BEHIND BECAUSE HE DID NOT RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT ;
Jn 20:29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

NOW JESUS ALSO TOLD HIM THAT HE AS LOST A BLESSING BECAUSE OF HIS UNBELIEVING ;BECAUSE THE BLESSING IS GOING TO THOSE THAT DID NOT SEE BUT BELIEVED;

NOW THOMAS SAID ; Jn 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” MY QUESTION TO YOU IS THIS ;WHY ARE YOU SO ATTRACTED TO THIS MAN THIS MAN AS SHOWN HE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN ANYTHING THAT OTHERS SEEM TO HAVE SEEN LOST A BLESSING BY HIS BEHAVIOR,BUT FOR SOME REASON YOU ARE BELIEVING HIM MORE THAN CHRIST HIMSELF

Zec 12:10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

YOU ALSO HAVE QUOTED THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE IN REGARD TO THOMAS ;THIS AS NOTHING TO DO WITH THOMAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING;

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If Jesus is a true God then **whose** true God is he T? **PLEASE ANSWER this** but I know you can't because you will look silly, What does this say?

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So Jesus is a true God but hes not YOUR true God?

I HAVE NO CLUE WHERE YOU GOT THIS EXPRESSION OF JESUS CHRIST BEING “TRUE GOD ” ANY SCRIPTURE

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So you DON'T belong to Jesus??

WE WILL ANSWER THIS QUESTION OF WHOM BELONG TO WHOM WHEN I AM DONE

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I have so many question you cant answer and can easily answer all of yours with explicit scripture. I'm trying to spell this out to you because I care!!!

DO NOT SELL THE BEAR SKINS YOU DID NOT SHOT YET ,YOU MAY HAVE TO GIVE THE MONEY BACK AND LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT YOU WERE AFTER ALL A POOR SHOT,SO TO SAY,:D

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I have a very busy life and i'm only here because I care and want to set people free in Jesus, the one and only True Son of God.

MY LIFE AND DAYS ARE COUNTED AND IF YOU ANSWER MY QUESTIONS YOU WILL SEE THAT IN REALITY YOU DON'T HAVE MUCH TO BACK YOUR BELIEVE UNLESS YOU WILL BE WILLINGLY REJECT THE SCRIPTURES IN FAVOR OF YOUR OWN OPINIONS

[GeneBalthrop]

4 Thomas………Explain this Adam the Son of God Was he an “adopted Son” or created So of God? Is he also your God as scripture clearly says he is a Son of God?.  Thou art the “ONLY” TRUE GOD” said Jesus, So who was the THOU, and what does “ONLY” mean to you?  If you believe Jesus is a true God you are in great error of what scripture say IMO> Jesus is not my God and never will be,  Me and Him both have ONE GOD that he went to, and he is My God, and HIS GOD , MY FATHER, and HIS FATHER. God can not recreate Himself , Jesus is an adopted Son, Just as we are, he is the firstborn of many human brothers and sisters to be in the Kingdom of God . Why do you want to “SEPARATE” Jesus' human Identity from you own anyway? Did he not say

when the SON OF MAN Comes will he find Faith on the Earth?  Jesus always Identified himself as one of Us, he never separated himself from our own human Identity why? becasue he is a Human Being also. I am afraid you have brought into a false Christ brother.

peace and love to you and yours………………………………………gene

[942767]

Hi:

Jesus is the last Adam, a man through whom the character of God has been made manifest to humanity. He does not have a dual nature, that is to say, “fully God and fully man”, but he is a man who through the application of God's Word in his life( by obeying the Word of God even unto death on the cross), is the “express image of God's person”.

The scripture form Genesis 1 states that God made man in His Own Image. The first man Adam was made “a living soul”, and the last Adam was made “a life giving spirit”. Jesus has stated in John 6 that it is the Word that he was speaking was “spirit and life. The first Adam was a living person who like God, had a mind, a will, and emotions, and the last Adam, the culmination of God's plan, is like God in that, in addition, he is a spirit of love.

We also as born again believers should be being made in God's image through the application of God's Word in our daily lives.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[4Thomas]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 04 2013,02:49)

4 Thomas………Explain this Adam the Son of God Was he an “adopted Son” or created So of God? Is he also your God as scripture clearly says he is a Son of God?.  Thou art the “ONLY” TRUE GOD” said Jesus, So who was the THOU, and what does “ONLY” mean to you?  If you believe Jesus is a true God you are in great error of what scripture say IMO> Jesus is not my God and never will be,  Me and Him both have ONE GOD that he went to, and he is My God, and HIS GOD , MY FATHER, and HIS FATHER. God can not recreate Himself , Jesus is an adopted Son, Just as we are, he is the firstborn of many human brothers and sisters to be in the Kingdom of God . Why do you want to “SEPARATE” Jesus' human Identity from you own anyway? Did he not say when the SON OF MAN Comes will he find Faith on the Earth?  Jesus always Identified himself as one of Us, he never separated himself from our own human Identity why? becasue he is a Human Being also. I am afraid you have brought into a false Christ brother. peace and love to you and yours………………………………………gene

It appears clear that you think Jesus is a man alone?

Is this correct? and if so how on earth do you console when Thomas said ***to him*** My Lord and my God****

Or how on earth did Jesus create the world and the universe if he only begain existing 2000 years ago???

John 1
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

Its bu receiving Jesus that we become Sons of God.
So Jesus didn't recieve himself did he he is THE Son of God.

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Colossians 1:15
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him.

So all things were created through him and FOR him???

Sorry I don't want to debate with you if you cant except simple clear scriptures like this, its just to far from the truth.

Are you part of the Adventist movement (Christadelphain) which created the jws and the Christadelphains and the 7th day adventists after the Adventist closed shop due to the multiple end of times dates passing in the wind?
If you are a Christadelphains please look…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventism

Life in the name of Jesus
Daniel

[4Thomas]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2013,13:17)

Quote You are joking ? NO i NEVER JOKE WHEN I DEAL WITH SCRIPTURES , Quote Thomas was doubting that Jesus was resurrected JN 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. Jn 20:25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.” Jn 20:21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” Jn 20:22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. SO LET SEE WHAT REALLY HAPPEN THEIR WHERE 10 PRESENT AT THE LORD ARRIVAL BEFORE THEM BUT ACCORDING TO WHAT THOMAS SAYS HE DECLINE THE 10 WITNESSES AND SO ONLY RELY ON HIS OWN VIEW,BUT NOT BEING THERE AS ALREADY PUT HIM ONE STEP BEHIND BECAUSE HE DID NOT RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT ; Jn 20:29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” NOW JESUS ALSO TOLD HIM THAT HE AS LOST A BLESSING BECAUSE OF HIS UNBELIEVING ;BECAUSE THE BLESSING IS GOING TO THOSE THAT DID NOT SEE BUT BELIEVED; NOW THOMAS SAID ; Jn 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” MY QUESTION TO YOU IS THIS ;WHY ARE YOU SO ATTRACTED TO THIS MAN THIS MAN AS SHOWN HE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN ANYTHING THAT OTHERS SEEM TO HAVE SEEN LOST A BLESSING BY HIS BEHAVIOR,BUT FOR SOME REASON YOU ARE BELIEVING HIM MORE THAN CHRIST HIMSELF Zec 12:10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. YOU ALSO HAVE QUOTED THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE IN REGARD TO THOMAS ;THIS AS NOTHING TO DO WITH THOMAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING; Quote If Jesus is a true God then **whose** true God is he T? **PLEASE ANSWER this** but I know you can't because you will look silly, What does this say? Quote So Jesus is a true God but hes not YOUR true God? I HAVE NO CLUE WHERE YOU GOT THIS EXPRESSION OF JESUS CHRIST BEING “TRUE GOD ” ANY SCRIPTURE Quote So you DON'T belong to Jesus?? WE WILL ANSWER THIS QUESTION OF WHOM BELONG TO WHOM WHEN I AM DONE Quote I have so many question you cant answer and can easily answer all of yours with explicit scripture. I'm trying to spell this out to you because I care!!! DO NOT SELL THE BEAR SKINS YOU DID NOT SHOT YET ,YOU MAY HAVE TO GIVE THE MONEY BACK AND LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT YOU WERE AFTER ALL A POOR SHOT,SO TO SAY,:D Quote I have a very busy life and i'm only here because I care and want to set people free in Jesus, the one and only True Son of God. MY LIFE AND DAYS ARE COUNTED AND IF YOU ANSWER MY QUESTIONS YOU WILL SEE THAT IN REALITY YOU DON'T HAVE MUCH TO BACK YOUR BELIEVE UNLESS YOU WILL BE WILLINGLY REJECT THE SCRIPTURES IN FAVOR OF YOUR OWN OPINIONS

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Quote So Jesus is a true God but hes not YOUR true God? I HAVE NO CLUE WHERE YOU GOT THIS EXPRESSION OF JESUS CHRIST BEING “TRUE GOD ” ANY SCRIPTURE Quote So you DON'T belong to Jesus?? WE WILL ANSWER THIS QUESTION OF WHOM BELONG TO WHOM WHEN I AM DONE

WE WILL ANSWER THIS QUESTION OF WHOM BELONG TO WHOM WHEN I AM DONE

Lets go around in circles again… Its REAL SIMPLE t, if Jesus is God or a God he is either a TRUE God or a False God.

Now if you say all Gods are true Gods then PLEASE answer IS JESUS your True God YES/NO

If Jesus is not God…. Is he an angel who isn't God [YES/NO]

Jesus has two natures in the one person. OR do YOU think he is a man ALONE?

If you think he is Michael the arch angel just be honest and admit to this very weak twisted view.

Or DONT you know WHAT JESUS was before he came Flesh

And dont YOU KNOW if you Belong to Jesus???

If you can&#39
;t answer SIMPLE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS… maybe there is a ***very*** good reason for this.

30Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Life in the Son
Daniel

[terraricca]

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Lets go around in circles again… Its REAL SIMPLE t, if Jesus is God or a God he is either a TRUE God or a False God.

this is not what scriptures says but you ;first i agree that Christ the only begotten son of God his a god (meaning mighty one) but so his Satan ,and many others ,many are known to have been mighty ones on earth ,BUT OF CAUSE THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE FALSE ,BUT THAT THEY ONLY HAVE LIMITED POWER ,ONLY JEHOVAH GOD AS ALL THE POWERS THAT NEED TO BE THE ALMIGHTY ONE OF CREATION ,

THROUGH OUT SCRIPTURES GOD TRY TO BRING TO THE ATTENTION OF THE NATION OF ISRAEL NOT TO GO AFTER THOSE OTHER GODS WITH LESS POWER BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SAVE THEM FROM HIS HANDS,

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Jesus has two natures in the one person. OR do YOU think he is a man ALONE?

I BELIEVE CHRIST BECAME A MAN AND WAS GIVEN THE COVER OF FLESH TO FULFILL THE WILL OF HIS FATHER GOD ALMIGHTY JEHOVAH,

AND “NO” I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE SON HIS THE FATHER ,THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT BEINGS ,BEING THAT THE SON WAS THE FIRST OF THE FATHER CREATION,

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If you think he is Michael the arch angel just be honest and admit to this very weak twisted view.

AND “NO” I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT MICHAEL THE ARK ANGEL HIS JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD ALMIGHTY

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And dont YOU KNOW if you Belong to Jesus???

I DO KNOW THAT I BELONG TO GOD THROUGH HIS SON SACRIFICE BUT WHEN “ALL WILL BE ALL IN GOD ” THEN WE ALL WILL BE OF GOD

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If you can't answer SIMPLE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS… maybe there is a ***very*** good reason for this.

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28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

I HAVE ALREADY ANSWERED YOU ON THIS ,THIS GUY HIS A LOOSER I WOULD NOT TRUST A WORD HE SAYS ;IF YOU WANT TO TRUST HIM THIS WILL BE YOUR CHOICE I WOULD NOT STOP YOU TO BELIEVING THAT JUDAS ISCARIOT WAS A GOOD GUY EITHER ,BUT TO CONVINCE ME OF TRUTH YOU BETTER FIND A BETTER AND MORE RELIABLE SOURCE .

[terraricca]

Jn 21:25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Jn 20:30 Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
Jn 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

SO THEY ARE WRITTEN THAT WE MAY BELIEVE ;WHAT THAT JESUS CHRIST HIS THE MESSIAH SENT BY GOD AND THAT HE ALSO HIS THE SON OF GOD (NOT GOD THE FATHER CREATOR OF ALL THINGS)SO THAT BY BELIEVING THESE THINGS YOU MAY RECEIVE EVERLASTING LIVE THROUGH HIS NAME ,YES I DO BELIEVE ALL THIS

[4Thomas]

Great so you admit that Jesus isn't Michael the Arch Angel.

So what is he t, what does it mean for him to be the one and only Son, the expressed image of the Father.

I have asked so many times

Is Jesus a true God yes/no?
If not WHAT is he? Who came in the flesh was it an arch angel?

2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

So who came in the flesh.
What does scripture teach.
*****The Word was God*****
****The word was made Flesh*******

Now if you believe Jesus is God, again I ask you this fundermental question is Jesus YOUR God -YES/NO
Or is he your Angel
Again I know he is the Son of God and he is indeed the True one and only Son.

Honestly its real simple stuff how the true one and only Son who is OF and FROM the Fathers nature alone and HAS THE SAME NATURE because he is the expressed image of the Fathers Glory.

Pure trueh and common sense states that Fathers and true Sons have the same nature especially if they derive their nature from the Father alone.

Hebrews 1:3
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

If you dont EVEN know what Jesus is WHAT are you trying to teach.. Do you even know?

t, “THE Word” the expressed substance and radiance of the Glory of God the Father, is THE one and Only Son who scripture states that *nothing* was made that has been made without him.
I'm away for the next few days but i'm hoping you will finally answer WHAT Jesus is and if he is YOUR angel or YOUR God.

Love and Life in the Son and his name,
there is no condemantion in him, ***somehow you think there is***
Daniel

[terraricca]

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So what is he t, what does it mean for him to be the one and only Son, the expressed image of the Father.

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was (a) God. **
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
Jn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

**the one that his with God is different than the one he his with HIM IN THE BEGINNING ; SO THE WORD HIS NOT GOD WITH WHICH HE WAS IN THE BEGINNING.

Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
Heb 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
Heb 1:4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father’” ?

Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son” ?

Heb 1:6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”

Heb 1:7 In speaking of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels winds,
his servants flames of fire.”

I DO NOT SEE WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT THE SON HIS GOD THE FATHER ;ALL THOSE SCRIPTURES I BELIEVE TO BE TRUE ,

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Love and Life in the Son and his name, there is no condemantion in him, ***somehow you think there is*** Daniel

THIS I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ,COULD YOU BE MORE EXPLICIT

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If you dont EVEN know what Jesus is WHAT are you trying to teach.. Do you even know?

CALM DOWN YOU HAVEN PROVEN ANYTHING YET TO ME ABOUT CHRIST THE SON OF GOD THE CREATOR,SO YOUR OWN QUESTION CAN EASILY BE TURNED AGAINST YOU ,SO SHOW ME WHO HE HIS FIRST ;

[terraricca]

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Now if you believe Jesus is God, again I ask you this fundermental question is Jesus YOUR God -YES/NO

NO ,JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD HIS NOT MY GOD ,BUT THE SON OF MY GOD ;THAT IS WHAT ALL THE SCRIPTURES ARE TEACHING;JESUS AND I HAVE THE SAME GOD AND FATHER ,

IT SEEMS YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT ONE I MEAN GOD AND FATHER

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t, “THE Word” the expressed substance and radiance of the Glory of God the Father, is THE one and Only Son who scripture states that *nothing* was made that has been made without him. I'm away for the next few days but i'm hoping you will finally answer WHAT Jesus is and if he is YOUR angel or YOUR God.

SORRY BUT HE IS NEITHER ,MY GOD OR MY ANGEL,THIS WOULD BE AGAINST THE SCRIPTURES ;

AND PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH ;JUST SHOW ME HOW YOU CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE SON OF GOD HIS GOD HIMSELF

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (4Thomas @ Oct. 04 2013,10:47)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 04 2013,02:49) 4 Thomas………Explain this Adam the Son of God Was he an “adopted Son” or created So of God? Is he also your God as scripture clearly says he is a Son of God?.  Thou art the “ONLY” TRUE GOD” said Jesus, So who was the THOU, and what does “ONLY” mean to you?  If you believe Jesus is a true God you are in great error of what scripture say IMO> Jesus is not my God and never will be,  Me and Him both have ONE GOD that he went to, and he is My God, and HIS GOD , MY FATHER, and HIS FATHER. God can not recreate Himself , Jesus is an adopted Son, Just as we are, he is the firstborn of many human brothers and sisters to be in the Kingdom of God . Why do you want to “SEPARATE” Jesus' human Identity from you own anyway? Did he not say when the SON OF MAN Comes will he find Faith on the Earth?  Jesus always Identified himself as one of Us, he never separated himself from our own human Identity why? becasue he is a Human Being also. I am afraid you have brought into a false Christ brother. peace and love to you and yours………………………………………gene It appears clear that you think Jesus is a man alone? Is this correct? and if so how on earth do you console when Thomas said ***to him*** My Lord and my God**** Or how on earth did Jesus create the world and the universe if he only begain existing 2000 years ago??? John 1 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. Its bu receiving Jesus that we become Sons of God. So Jesus didn't recieve himself did he he is THE Son of God. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Colossians 1:15 15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. So all things were created through him and FOR him??? Sorry I don't want to debate with you if you cant except simple clear scriptures like this, its just to far from the truth. Are you part of the Adventist movement (Christadelphain) which created the jws and the Christadelphains and the 7th day adventists after the Adventist closed shop due to the multiple end of times dates passing in the wind? If you are a Christadelphains please look… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventism Life in the name of Jesus Daniel

4Thomas….God was, in the World, “IN” Jesus, the very God that created everything that exists, was “IN” Jesus, Jesus plainly said the words he spoke were “NOT” His Words, How do you account for that, and again when through Jesus' mouth God the Father said Destroy this temple (Jesus' Body) and in three days I (God) shall raise it up.  and again…. The “SON OF MAN” (Jesus) can do “nothing” of himself the Father who is “IN” him Does the works   Also notice he called himself a SON OF MAN.

Now with that understanding who did Thomas realize was present , His lord (Jesus Christ) “AND” His GOD also.  4Thomas you have to take all scriptures into consideration. Jesus never said he was a God or that he was the Father , but he said many times that the Father who is God was “IN ” HIM, but becasue God is in a person does not make that person a GOD. Believe Jesus when he said For “THOU” art the “ONLY” True GOD.  

We can't have a good dialog on this subject if you chose to just ignore the scriptures I post brother.  Hope what i have posted helps.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ Oct. 03 2013,18:10)

30Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. 28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Hi Daniel,

I think Trinitarians get too carried away with things like “same essence” and such.

The only question is:  Is Jesus God Most High?  Or is he the Son OF God Most High?

There is only ONE Most High God.  And Jesus either IS Him, or he is the Son OF Him.  He cannot possibly be both.

Scriptures say Jesus is the Son OF the Most High God, and that our God is also Jesus' God.  We believe those scriptures.  You guys bend over backwards trying to convince us that Jesus actually IS the very God he is the Son OF.  It is a futile endeavor, because our God-given common sense will not allow us to believe that anybody is the very being that he is the son of.

[terraricca]

DANIEL

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Hebrews 1:3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

tell me what do you know about Christ RADIANCE AND THE GLORY OF GOD HIS FATHER

PLEASE EXPLAIN ?……………….

[4Thomas]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 05 2013,02:10)

Quote (4Thomas @ Oct. 04 2013,10:47) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 04 2013,02:49) 4 Thomas………Explain this Adam the Son of God Was he an “adopted Son” or created So of God? Is he also your God as scripture clearly says he is a Son of God?.  Thou art the “ONLY” TRUE GOD” said Jesus, So who was the THOU, and what does “ONLY” mean to you?  If you believe Jesus is a true God you are in great error of what scripture say IMO> Jesus is not my God and never will be,  Me and Him both have ONE GOD that he went to, and he is My God, and HIS GOD , MY FATHER, and HIS FATHER. God can not recreate Himself , Jesus is an adopted Son, Just as we are, he is the firstborn of many human brothers and sisters to be in the Kingdom of God . Why do you want to “SEPARATE” Jesus' human Identity from you own anyway? Did he not say when the SON OF MAN Comes will he find Faith on the Earth?  Jesus always Identified himself as one of Us, he never separated himself from our own human Identity why? becasue he is a Human Being also. I am afraid you have brought into a false Christ brother. peace and love to you and yours………………………………………gene It appears clear that you think Jesus is a man alone? Is this correct? and if so how on earth do you console when Thomas said ***to him*** My Lord and my God**** Or how on earth did Jesus create the world and the universe if he only begain existing 2000 years ago??? John 1 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. Its bu receiving Jesus that we become Sons of God. So Jesus didn't recieve himself did he he is THE Son of God. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Colossians 1:15 15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. So all things were created through him and FOR him??? Sorry I don't want to debate with you if you cant except simple clear scriptures like this, its just to far from the truth. Are you part of the Adventist movement (Christadelphain) which created the jws and the Christadelphains and the 7th day adventists after the Adventist closed shop due to the multiple end of times dates passing in the wind? If you are a Christadelphains please look… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventism Life in the name of Jesus Daniel 4Thomas….God was, in the World, “IN” Jesus, the very God that created everything that exists, was “IN” Jesus, Jesus plainly said the words he spoke were “NOT” His Words, How do you account for that, and again when through Jesus' mouth God the Father said Destroy this temple (Jesus' Body) and in three days I (God) shall raise it up.  and again…. The “SON OF MAN” (Jesus) can do “nothing” of himself the Father who is “IN” him Does the works   Also notice he called himself a SON OF MAN. Now with that understanding who did Thomas realize was present , His lord (Jesus Christ) “AND” His GOD also.  4Thomas you have to take all scriptures into consideration. Jesus never said he was a God or that he was the Father , but he said many times that the Father who is God was “IN ” HIM, but becasue God is in a person does not make that person a GOD. Believe Jesus when he said For “THOU” art the “ONLY” True GOD.   We can't have a good dialog on this subject if you chose to just ignore the scriptures I post brother.  Hope what i have posted helps. peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

Gene, Jesus also said he was in the Father, he came from the bossom of the Father,
you can't just take the snippets that you want and forget the rest,

The truth you have is that Jesus was a man, Yes Jesus was a man so thats great. The problem for you is he's not a man ALONE.

there are just so many basic scriptures like this that so it was THROUGH him the entire universe has been made.

Colossians 1:15
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him.

Again unless you believe Jesus pre-existed I'm honestly not interested in debating with you because you have to be following man made tradition.

Gene, all I can say is PLEASE accept Jesus as you true lord and saviour, call on the name of Jesus and he will reveal himslef if you have a opena nd honest heart.

Life in the Son and in his name.
Daniel

[4Thomas]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2013,03:22)

DANIEL Quote Hebrews 1:3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, tell me what do you know about Christ RADIANCE AND THE GLORY OF GOD HIS FATHER PLEASE EXPLAIN ?……………….

Actually a very good question t,
Jesus is the expressed image and RADIANCE AND THE GLORY OF GOD HIS FATHER.

1 John 4:8
He that loves not knows not God; for God is love.

So God is Love and Jesus is that expressed image of that love.

All you need to see Gods Love is look at Jesus sacafice, he was mocked he was humilated, he was beaten and he bleed for you, to save you and I from all our Sins. Absolutely everything was made through the Son, yet he became a small human man in this creation to prove what Love really means.

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.

See Gods radiance and expressed image of Love came to earth to prove it, he didn't just say just mere words alone without any substance, he didn't just say “you know I love you all and everyone is forgiven if they call on the name of Jehovha. No instead he used more than words he used his expressed RADIANCE AND GLORY, who is explicitly declared in scripture as **THE Lord** of *Glory*.  

See the Father is the source, so it's impossible for him to humble himself but his expressed radiance and glory, his expressed image of love can take flesh to PROVE his love that he has for us. Praise and glory be to his name.

Life in the name of Jesus
Daniel

[4Thomas]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 06 2013,02:07)

Quote (4Thomas @ Oct. 03 2013,18:10) 30Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. 28Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Hi Daniel, I think Trinitarians get too carried away with things like “same essence” and such. The only question is:  Is Jesus God Most High?  Or is he the Son OF God Most High? There is only ONE Most High God.  And Jesus either IS Him, or he is the Son OF Him.  He cannot possibly be both. Scriptures say Jesus is the Son OF the Most High God, and that our God is also Jesus' God.  We believe those scriptures.  You guys bend over backwards trying to convince us that Jesus actually IS the very God he is the Son OF.  It is a futile endeavor, because our God-given common sense will not allow us to believe that anybody is the very being that he is the son of.

Hi Mike,

You know this to be false, you know I dont believe the Son to be the Father.

Mike, I have already shown you multiple times that Jehovha God Almighty was seen in the Old testament and was revealed as the Almighty.

Surely you know that Jesus is ALSO declared to become the Son of God.

Hebrews 1:5
For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”?

Jesus has two nature Mike, this is the whole point I have been trying to make. Jesus is a two-fold Son of the Father.

Jesus is God by nature from and of his Father
and Jesus is also Man by nature from and of mankind

Jesus being God by nature FROM his Father is revealed as the Son in relation to the Father, see Jesus is the expreesed substance of the very nature of the Father, this is why he is called the Word.

H20 can be a cloud [Source]
H20 can be rain [expressed substance]

H20 can be snow on a mountain top [Source]
H20 can be a river flowing from the mountain top from the snow. [expressed substance]

See people who dont believe Jesus is an arch angel or a man alone believe he is the expressed substance of the father.

He is the testament of the father eternal Almightly Glory and power to eternal generate and reveal All power and All glory.

the Father isn't just all talk he is all action, he's not just POTENTIALLY powerful but he is eternally ALL POWERFUL.
You take away the eternal expression of the Fathers testament and you are left with an eternal source of nothing that has no testament of anything.
the Father didn't bring forth the Son into being because of us, we have been brought into being because of the Son, we are made through him and for him.

the Son is eternally brought forth not for us but for the glory and testament of the Father.

I pray that that the Fathers rain and his river of his substance that flows forth from him will cover you and that you will accept Jesus as your true Lord.

When Mose seen Jehovha and Jehovha said he sees his form, he was seeing the expressed nature/substance of Jehovha.

See Jesus is God because he is the eternal expressed substance of the Father, the Son comes from the bossom of the Father just as Eve came from the bossom of Adam.

If you look at the Sun in the sky it's blinding but if you could only look forth from the Sun's eye to see all that it's expressed light reveals – you will see the heavens from the Source.
the Father eternally looks and knows his eternal expressed image he knows he is the expression of his love and Glory and he loves YOU.

Those you deny the Son he will deny before his Father in heaven. Mike call on the name of Jesus, open your heart to the expressed image of Gods love and accept him as your true Lord and saviour, here there is life and truth.
If Jesus was a man alone and not also God by substance I would NOT be asking this for your sake.

Life in the name of Jesus and no condemnation
Daniel
(hope all is going well for you, take care)

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