Who is this Jesus?

[kerwin]

T,

I agree faith without deeds is not faith.
I also agree there is a faith that results in worldly
sorrow and fear and so is illegitimate.

Note: changed legitimate to illegitimate.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 01 2013,12:12)

T, I agree faith without deeds is not faith. I also agree there is a faith that results in worldly sorrow and fear and so is legitimate.

please make sure that this understanding remains with you in all other discussions ,because it is a true base ,firm,in rock

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 01 2013,21:51)

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 01 2013,12:12) T, I agree faith without deeds is not faith. I also agree there is a faith that results in worldly sorrow and fear and so is legitimate.   please make sure that this understanding remains with you in all other discussions ,because it is a true base ,firm,in rock

T,

I dropped the letters il off of illegitimate but I think you understood what I mean instead of what I wrote.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2013,08:29)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 01 2013,21:51) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 01 2013,12:12) T, I agree faith without deeds is not faith. I also agree there is a faith that results in worldly sorrow and fear and so is legitimate.   please make sure that this understanding remains with you in all other discussions ,because it is a true base ,firm,in rock T, I dropped the letters il off of illegitimate but I think you understood what I mean instead of what I wrote.

[GeneBalthrop]

To All……….Faith “IS”, The substance of things hoped For, the “evidence” of things “NOT” seen. no one has “SEEN” God at any time scripture says, and again without Faith it is impossible to please God , for he that comes to God must believe that he is and a rewarder of them that “SEEK” Him, and again, Paul says , tell me this, does he that does “MIRACLES” among you(GOD) , do it by the works of LAW, or by the hearing of your “FAITH”.? where does Faith come from…> God gives to every man a “Measure” of faith, and again ….> when the SON of MAN comes, will he find faith on the earth?. and again Jesus said “NO” Man “CAN” come unto me UNLESS the Father “DRAW” HIM. True Faith is GIVEN by GOD ONLY, who truly “REVEALS” HIMSELF to that person, it is NOT a “SUPPOSITION of the mind from man it is God alone who opens the mind to recieve the truth of God in every one he is saving, there are many seeking to inter in through other means trying to climb in the back way. These people rely on their own selves. Remember what Jesus said , Since John the baptist, the Kingdom of God is preached , but the violent have over taken it by force and again Jesus said, “MANY” would come in my name and say that I am ( the Christ) and shall deceive “Many”. Suppositions disguises itself as FAITH, but it is Just a WILL, that comes from the SELF. Unless God is “IN” a person by his Spirit he simply is non of his. and unless the LORD shall build the House the “weary” builders build in vain and unless the LORD is the Cities Shield the Guard maintain a “USELESS” watch.

We all need to distinguish true Faith, from “Suppositions”, in order to recieve the true reality of our ONLY TRUE GOD. IMO

peace and love to all the ISRAEL of GOD……………………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 11 2013,21:00)

To All……….Faith “IS”,  The substance of things hoped For, the “evidence” of things “NOT” seen. no one has “SEEN” God at any time scripture says, and again without Faith it is impossible to please God , for he that comes to God must believe that he is and a rewarder of them that “SEEK” Him, and again,  Paul says , tell me this, does he that does “MIRACLES” among you(GOD) , do it by the works of LAW, or by the hearing of your “FAITH”.? where does Faith come from…> God gives to every man a “Measure” of faith,  and again ….> when the SON of MAN comes, will he find faith on the earth?.  and again Jesus said   “NO” Man “CAN” come unto me UNLESS the Father “DRAW” HIM. True Faith is GIVEN by GOD ONLY, who truly “REVEALS” HIMSELF to that person, it is NOT a “SUPPOSITION of the mind from  man it is God alone who opens the mind to recieve the truth of God in every one he is saving, there are many seeking to inter in through other means trying to climb in the back way. These people rely on their own selves. Remember what  Jesus said , Since John the baptist, the Kingdom of God is preached , but the violent have over taken it by force and again Jesus said, “MANY” would come in my name and say that I am ( the Christ) and shall deceive “Many”. Suppositions disguises  itself as FAITH, but it is Just a WILL, that comes from the SELF.  Unless God is “IN” a person by his Spirit he simply is non of his. and   unless the LORD shall build the House the “weary” builders build in vain and unless the LORD is the Cities Shield the Guard maintain a “USELESS” watch. We all need to distinguish true Faith, from “Suppositions”, in order to recieve the true reality of our ONLY TRUE GOD.  IMO peace and love to all the ISRAEL of GOD……………………………..gene

gene

this is not you ;you have no faith in scriptures if you would you would show you believe in them ,

you acting as a parasite ,jumping all over show big movements but no real of anything of value ,

you have no hope ,at the least not in scriptures for the same reason YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN THEM ,

[4Thomas]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 25 2013,10:38)

Quote (4Thomas @ July 23 2013,18:33) So if we could just pray for each other at the moment and continue this debate in a few weeks that would be good. In Christ and only wanting the best for you [from how I understand things] Amen, my friend. I'm in no hurry.

Hi Mike,
Hope all is well for you.

Can probably start posting the odd comment now and then as life is a little less hectic. Thanks for oyur patience

I've been praying for you, as I think if we both pray for each other and sincerely open our hearts that we will hear Gods spirit speak in our hearts.

Had a miracle happen last night.
We had a text around10:20 last night when a friends child stop breathing and wasn't responding to treatment at the hospital, they asked as to pray for her, as we were her God parents. For some reason (and what a honor from God) because as soon as we finished praying and txted the parents replied back saying “the prayers of Gods parent are truly strong” and that after we prayed their little girl recovered. The timming couldn't have been an acident they were so greatful.
I'm not sure why God used this timming to answer this prayer? I find God's time is always perfect and also has some reason behind it. I'm so thankful that the little girl is well, praise God and to him be the glory.
The day before God was calling me to talk with you so I felt compelled to share this with you also.

Can I PM you, David and T8 together? Hope to talk in next couple of days.

Love and Life in Jesus name
Daniel

[4Thomas]

Hi Mike, T8 and David,

Question, we know Satan is called THE God of this World in scripture but surely you would NOT call him or any other angel (fallen or not) your God?

2 Corinthians 4:4
4in whose case the God of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

In Truth and Love one of us has the wrong Jesus so my question is

Is Jesus your God, is it ok for you to call him “my Lord and my God”

Is it ok also to call the Father my Lord?

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Love in Jesus name
Daniel

[david]

Quote

Question, we know Satan is called THE God of this World in scripture but surely you would NOT call him or any other angel (fallen or not) your God?

Satan may be the god of this world, but Jesus repeatedly said his followers would be “no part of the world.”

Obama is called THE president, but I wouldn't call him my president.  (I'm canadian)

God although often used as an identity, or almost as a name, is a descriptive word, like president.

While the president of the US might be a president, he isn't my president.  

Now for fun imagine a mental hospital, which likely will have one or two people who tell people they are the president.  (These delusional people would be comparative to the “no gods” or as everyone but mike describes them, false gods.)

Of course other countries have presidents, that truly are presidents.  But they aren't my president.

Honestly, I don't even have a president.  No canadian does.

The word god is different because it's actually much more general than president.  And it's relative.  An bear is a giant to a mouse, but to an elephant, a bear isn't a giant at all.  

Regarding the question you asked in the PM, regardless of whether you believed the one thing, or the other thing, my guess is either way, you will some day die (in your sins.). But not because you believe or don't believe Jesus is an angelos (messenger/angel)

[david]

Quote

Is Jesus your God, is it ok for you to call him “my Lord and my God”

If suddenly Jesus was standing in front of me, I might just say “my god!”

But, here is the thing. I wouldn't do it often. Jesus is very often called the son of god. The father is thousands of time called god. And Jesus is a few times called by the word “god.”

I orobably have a bias because whenever I am talking about this, it's always from a defence standpoint where I'm pointing out that Jesus isn't THE god of the bible, so I probably am so used to that thinking that I possibly go too far in that direction.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (4Thomas @ Sep. 19 2013,19:08)

Question, we know Satan is called THE God of this World in scripture but surely you would NOT call him or any other angel (fallen or not) your God?

Absolutely not. But to those that belong to him, they could. YHWH is the God of the living not the dead.

[Proclaimer]

The Father is the God in the bible. There are over 1300 verses that mean the Father when speaking of God. There are around 9 verses that use the word God as Jesus. Some of them can be read in another way to agree with the rest of scripture if you move the comma, some are corruptions such as 1Tim 3:16 (AKJV only) and 1 John 5:7–8 (AKJV only), and others refer to theos in a qualitative sense which BTW is also used of others such as the Angels and Pharisees/Judges/Counsel of God.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ Sep. 17 2013,18:49)

Had a miracle happen last night. I'm so thankful that the little girl is well, praise God and to him be the glory.

Amen Daniel! All praise to God.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ Sep. 19 2013,01:08)

Question, we know Satan is called THE God of this World in scripture but surely you would NOT call him or any other angel (fallen or not) your God?

No.

My understanding echoes Paul's statement in 1 Cor 8:5-6. I readily acknowledge the existence of other gods, because the Bible teaches that there are indeed many gods, both in heaven and on earth.

Yet for ME, there is but one God, the Father.

So while these other gods clearly exist, I have as my own God only the Father who created me.

I acknowledge that Jesus, Satan and others are indeed very powerful gods, but I only address my heavenly Father as “God”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (4Thomas @ Sep. 19 2013,01:08)

1. Is Jesus your God, is it ok for you to call him “my Lord and my God” 2. Is it ok also to call the Father my Lord?

1. I personally wouldn't do that.

2. Yes, the Father is the Lord of heaven and earth. We can call Him “Lord”.

[david]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 27 2013,10:02)

Quote (4Thomas @ Sep. 19 2013,01:08) 1.  Is Jesus your God, is it ok for you to call him “my Lord and my God” 2.  Is it ok also to call the Father my Lord? 1.  I personally wouldn't do that. 2.  Yes, the Father is the Lord of heaven and earth.  We can call Him “Lord”.

Isn't the father called “lord” several times in scripture?

(I might be thinking of the kj version, that substituted “LORD” and “GOD” thousans of times for his name.

[mikeboll64]

Jesus calls him “the Lord of heaven and earth” at least once in the NT. And yes, He is called “lord” many, many times in scripture.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 24 2013,13:47)

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2013,20:40) Mike, Just saying “wrong” is a pretty lame defense. I've already painstakingly explained why your conclusions are wrong, Kathi.  So now all I need to do is say “wrong” each time you claim nonsense like that. Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2013,20:40) Why, I already showed you that there were the 'two houses' Israel and Judah mentioned when Jesus was on earth. Was there a northern kingdom of Israel and a southern kingdom of Judah when Christ was on earth?  NO.  End of story. Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2013,20:40) Yes, Jehovah laid a cornerstone in Zion which many stumbled over and that stone is Jehovah of hosts, Jesus. Wrong.  Jehovah of hosts is the one who LAID a stone of stumbling in Zion.  You are correct that the stone was the servant of Jehovah of host named Jesus. Kathi, Jesus himself said that our God was also his God.  So I ask you: Is the God of Jesus THE God of Kathi?  Or is the God of Jesus ONE OF THE Gods of Kathi?  Which one?

Mike,
you said:

Quote

Jehovah of hosts is the one who LAID a stone of stumbling in Zion.

In this passage, who is the stone to strike and a rock to stumble over:

Isaiah 8
11For thus the LORD spoke to me with mighty power and instructed me not to walk in the way of this people, saying,

12“You are not to say, ‘It is a conspiracy!’
In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy,
And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it.

13“It is the LORD of hosts whom you should regard as holy.
And He shall be your fear,
And He shall be your dread.

14“Then He shall become a sanctuary;
But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over,
And a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

15“Many will stumble over them,
Then they will fall and be broken;
They will even be snared and caught.”

[4Thomas]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 27 2013,09:32)

Quote (4Thomas @ Sep. 19 2013,19:08) Question, we know Satan is called THE God of this World in scripture but surely you would NOT call him or any other angel (fallen or not) your God? Absolutely not. But to those that belong to him, they could. YHWH is the God of the living not the dead.

Amen, I agree.
No angel should be called our God or my God.
I have no problem with calling Jesus my God or my Lord because scripture reveals this explicitly.
Is Jesus your God and our God.

Please note I don't believe Jesus is the Father or another Father but the expressed essence/substance of the Father and that why I believe

I'm one of these people who play things very safe. And I see in scripture that there is no condemnation for anyone worshiping the one and only Son, even when holding his feet and then worshiping him.

John 3:18
New International Version (©2011)
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Here are a few explicit scriptures from the great apostles Peter, Paul, John and Thomas. Notice the words “OUR” God and “MY” God. I think its very clear that Jesus was the disciples God, doubting Thomas wasn't condemned when he called Jesus my Lord and my God, why would he when the Father Almighty calls his Son Lord and God and commands all his angels to worship him.

>Peter calls Jesus *our* God
2 Peter 1:1
1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

>Paul calls Jesus *our* great God.
Titus 2:13
13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

>John the beloved disciple explains *what* Jesus was before he took on flesh.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

>The FATHER himself who calls his Son, God and Lord.
Hebrews 1:8
8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

*Doubting* Thomas who absolutely explicitly calls Jesus his very God, my lord and my God. 
John 20:28
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

As I believe you agree, Jesus is truly God [true God] by his nature from the Father.

Jesus to me is True God from True God begotten and not made!
The eternal *reaction* of the Glory of God the Father and my Lord and my God. I believe what it means to be the expressed image of the Father is to understand the reaction of the Glory of God the Father.
I don't think the Father created Jesus from nothing but instead Jesus is the expressed substance *from* and *of* the Fathers nature, like Eve from Adam but instead spirit and eternal unapproachable light from spirit eternal unapproachable light. Yet this Lord of Glory loved us so much he took on flesh as a servant and bleed for us so we will not taste death but live.

The key to understanding Jesus I think is this!

– Eve is the reciprocal image of Adam so Jesus is not another Father or the Father but the reciprocal image of the Father and from and through. this is how all things are made from the Father through the Son (the reciprocal image, not another Father).

So i guess my question to you T8 is is Jesus your God?

I know you rightly believe he is THE Son but does this mean he is also your God, the expressed Word of the Father's substance through which he made the universe?

I have read somewhere that you said you worshiped Jesus which was great to see.

I get the feeling you are ok with calling Jesus your God but i was just wondering.

take care.

Life in the name of Jesus
Daniel

[4Thomas]

Mike and David, thank you for your answers.

Jesus is my Lord and my God and scripture reveals that he was also the God of Peter and Paul and Thomas.
I understand there are many scriptures that show the servant Jesus became as a man but I honestly think its a sin *not* seperate and identify that Jesus had two natures, man and God in one person.

Life in the Son
Daniel

[Author]

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