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Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,11:05) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,15:51) Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 04 2013,06:49) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2013,09:50) Quote J42 TO AD TO THE PREVIOUS QUOTE;
Rev 22:11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”
Rev 22:14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.HOW CAN GOD REQUIRE FROM THE BELIEVER TO STAY PURE IF GOD HIMSELF DID CREATE EVIL
No, it should be read this way
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.Wrong and unjust don't match up to me.
I could be wrong about it raining today, but it doesn't make me unjust. God is more SPECIFIC and his WORDS more powerful than a two edged sword. Not our words.They even decided to re-translate rev 22:14.
What is more easier to understand and direct to the point….”Blessed are they that do his commandments”
or
“blessed are they that wash their robes”?
If someone were to pick up revelations and read that passage, they would have to search the whole bible to find out what “washing robes” meant, whereas reading that to do God's commandments is simple and direct, and there's blessings for it.Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Zephaniah 3:1 Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!
Rev 22:11….and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still…
Journey,You can find thesauruses that will tell you wrong is as synonym for unjust.
I read them and they are closer paraphrases than some of Jesus words in the Authorized King James Version and the words in the OT of the same version he is supposed to be paraphrasing.
Kerwin.What is a thesaurusarus to them back then?
They know what spiritually filthy is.wakeup.
Wakeup,I do not know but in my opinion you should know wrong is a synonym for unjust. You are not the people back then. You are one God has chosen to give more to and to those God gives more he expects more. For example, if you should arrogantly refuse to learn to speak English good enough to discern that wrong and unjust are two ways to say the same things then you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. If on your lack of knowledge come from the inability to learn then God will judge you according to that.
Faultfinding does not serve God.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,16:18) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,11:05) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,15:51) Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 04 2013,06:49) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2013,09:50) Quote J42 TO AD TO THE PREVIOUS QUOTE;
Rev 22:11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”
Rev 22:14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.HOW CAN GOD REQUIRE FROM THE BELIEVER TO STAY PURE IF GOD HIMSELF DID CREATE EVIL
No, it should be read this way
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.Wrong and unjust don't match up to me.
I could be wrong about it raining today, but it doesn't make me unjust. God is more SPECIFIC and his WORDS more powerful than a two edged sword. Not our words.They even decided to re-translate rev 22:14.
What is more easier to understand and direct to the point….”Blessed are they that do his commandments”
or
“blessed are they that wash their robes”?
If someone were to pick up revelations and read that passage, they would have to search the whole bible to find out what “washing robes” meant, whereas reading that to do God's commandments is simple and direct, and there's blessings for it.Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Zephaniah 3:1 Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!
Rev 22:11….and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still…
Journey,You can find thesauruses that will tell you wrong is as synonym for unjust.
I read them and they are closer paraphrases than some of Jesus words in the Authorized King James Version and the words in the OT of the same version he is supposed to be paraphrasing.
Kerwin.What is a thesaurusarus to them back then?
They know what spiritually filthy is.wakeup.
Wakeup,I do not know but in my opinion you should know wrong is a synonym for unjust. You are not the people back then. You are one God has chosen to give more to and to those God gives more he expects more. For example, if you should arrogantly refuse to learn to speak English good enough to discern that wrong and unjust are two ways to say the same things then you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. If on your lack of knowledge come from the inability to learn then God will judge you according to that.
Faultfinding does not serve God.
Kerwin.Making a wrong turn, and going into a one way road,is not being unjust
If one ate the wrong food and gets a belly ache,
he is not being unjust.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,11:33) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,16:18) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,11:05) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,15:51) Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 04 2013,06:49) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2013,09:50) Quote J42 TO AD TO THE PREVIOUS QUOTE;
Rev 22:11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”
Rev 22:14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.HOW CAN GOD REQUIRE FROM THE BELIEVER TO STAY PURE IF GOD HIMSELF DID CREATE EVIL
No, it should be read this way
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.Wrong and unjust don't match up to me.
I could be wrong about it raining today, but it doesn't make me unjust. God is more SPECIFIC and his WORDS more powerful than a two edged sword. Not our words.They even decided to re-translate rev 22:14.
What is more easier to understand and direct to the point….”Blessed are they that do his commandments”
or
“blessed are they that wash their robes”?
If someone were to pick up revelations and read that passage, they would have to search the whole bible to find out what “washing robes” meant, whereas reading that to do God's commandments is simple and direct, and there's blessings for it.Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Zephaniah 3:1 Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!
Rev 22:11….and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still…
Journey,You can find thesauruses that will tell you wrong is as synonym for unjust.
I read them and they are closer paraphrases than some of Jesus words in the Authorized King James Version and the words in the OT of the same version he is supposed to be paraphrasing.
Kerwin.What is a thesaurusarus to them back then?
They know what spiritually filthy is.wakeup.
Wakeup,I do not know but in my opinion you should know wrong is a synonym for unjust. You are not the people back then. You are one God has chosen to give more to and to those God gives more he expects more. For example, if you should arrogantly refuse to learn to speak English good enough to discern that wrong and unjust are two ways to say the same things then you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. If on your lack of knowledge come from the inability to learn then God will judge you according to that.
Faultfinding does not serve God.
Kerwin.Making a wrong turn, and going into a one way road,is not being unjust
If one ate the wrong food and gets a belly ache,
he is not being unjust.wakeup.
Wakeup,I do not believe you lack as much knowledge of English grammar as you are acting like you do. Sometimes it is wiser to admit you are in a loosing battle then to fight on. It looses you nothing to admit you made an error. If your really do lack knowledge then go to Google and do a search for synonym wrong unjust just like I did to confirm that what I believed was actually correct.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,16:45) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,11:33) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,16:18) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,11:05) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,15:51) Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 04 2013,06:49) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 04 2013,09:50) Quote J42 TO AD TO THE PREVIOUS QUOTE;
Rev 22:11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”
Rev 22:14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.HOW CAN GOD REQUIRE FROM THE BELIEVER TO STAY PURE IF GOD HIMSELF DID CREATE EVIL
No, it should be read this way
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.Wrong and unjust don't match up to me.
I could be wrong about it raining today, but it doesn't make me unjust. God is more SPECIFIC and his WORDS more powerful than a two edged sword. Not our words.They even decided to re-translate rev 22:14.
What is more easier to understand and direct to the point….”Blessed are they that do his commandments”
or
“blessed are they that wash their robes”?
If someone were to pick up revelations and read that passage, they would have to search the whole bible to find out what “washing robes” meant, whereas reading that to do God's commandments is simple and direct, and there's blessings for it.Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Zephaniah 3:1 Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!
Rev 22:11….and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still…
Journey,You can find thesauruses that will tell you wrong is as synonym for unjust.
I read them and they are closer paraphrases than some of Jesus words in the Authorized King James Version and the words in the OT of the same version he is supposed to be paraphrasing.
Kerwin.What is a thesaurusarus to them back then?
They know what spiritually filthy is.wakeup.
Wakeup,I do not know but in my opinion you should know wrong is a synonym for unjust. You are not the people back then. You are one God has chosen to give more to and to those God gives more he expects more. For example, if you should arrogantly refuse to learn to speak English good enough to discern that wrong and unjust are two ways to say the same things then you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. If on your lack of knowledge come from the inability to learn then God will judge you according to that.
Faultfinding does not serve God.
Kerwin.Making a wrong turn, and going into a one way road,is not being unjust
If one ate the wrong food and gets a belly ache,
he is not being unjust.wakeup.
Wakeup,I do not believe you lack as much knowledge of English grammar as you are acting like you do. Sometimes it is wiser to admit you are in a loosing battle then to fight on. It looses you nothing to admit you made an error. If your really do lack knowledge then go to Google and do a search for synonym wrong unjust just like I did to confirm that what I believed was actually correct.
Kerwin.Google is not the right place to get spiritual knowledge.
Man has change the wordings in the new bible.
Stay with the old.
You have taken in the new age thingking.
Scary indeed for your sake.This is very serious.
This is the cause of the desolation of the spirit.wakeup.
Wakeup,
It looks like you require more spiritual knowledge so that you become wise enough to learn the grammar you do not know. Even Paul stated that it better a few words with understanding than a multitude of words without.
A dictionary is a way to spiritual knowledge because if you do not correctly understand the truth then to you the words have become a lie.
Where is your thirst to learn what God actually means?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,17:40) Wakeup, It looks like you require more spiritual knowledge so that you become wise enough to learn the grammar you do not know. Even Paul stated that it better a few words with understanding than a multitude of words without.
A dictionary is a way to spiritual knowledge because if you do not correctly understand the truth then to you the words have become a lie.
Where is your thirst to learn what God actually means?
Kerwin.You are depending on the dictionary,
not on the Holy Spirit.
The apostles were fisherman,and you are listening to what
they have to say.
John the baptist never went to school,as far as I know.wakeup.
terraricca,Dec. wrote:[/quote]
Quote I GETTING TIRE OF YOUR FLIP FLOP FROM ONE KJV TO ANOTHER KJV ,SO YOU HAVE TO FIND SOMEONE ELSE TO KEEP UP WITH CIRCUS ; I AM OUT
Yes Pierre
Maybe one day, someone reading this may figure it out that the Word of God has been watered down, and made to look like a circus, with many many subtle tricks in there.By the way, I am not going from one KJV to another, but stick to the same one that remained unchanged these past 400 years or so. That same ONE bible I carry around with me, when I go out, in case I need it, but you would need a suitcase to carry all yours! Now that's a circus.
Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 04 2013,18:34) terraricca,Dec. wrote:[/quote]
Quote I GETTING TIRE OF YOUR FLIP FLOP FROM ONE KJV TO ANOTHER KJV ,SO YOU HAVE TO FIND SOMEONE ELSE TO KEEP UP WITH CIRCUS ; I AM OUT
Yes Pierre
Maybe one day, someone reading this may figure it out that the Word of God has been watered down, and made to look like a circus, with many many subtle tricks in there.By the way, I am not going from one KJV to another, but stick to the same one that remained unchanged these past 400 years or so. That same ONE bible I carry around with me, when I go out, in case I need it, but you would need a suitcase to carry all yours! Now that's a circus.
Journey,It is an untruth to claim the KJV has been unchanged for 400 years. It did not even make it through the first year unchanged, much less the next 399. It was standardized a couple of centuries ago. It may have been unchanged since then. It is certainly not the same version that King James authorized in the 17th Century.
If you repeat an untruth knowing it is untrue then it is clearly a lie. Keep your zeal in check and serving God.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,13:18) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,17:40) Wakeup, It looks like you require more spiritual knowledge so that you become wise enough to learn the grammar you do not know. Even Paul stated that it better a few words with understanding than a multitude of words without.
A dictionary is a way to spiritual knowledge because if you do not correctly understand the truth then to you the words have become a lie.
Where is your thirst to learn what God actually means?
Kerwin.You are depending on the dictionary,
not on the Holy Spirit.
The apostles were fisherman,and you are listening to what
they have to say.
John the baptist never went to school,as far as I know.wakeup.
Wakeup,I see you do not understand the Spirit or you would know that it teaches righteousness and guides in all truth. When I am led to consult a dictionary I know which meaning or meanings apply because the Spirit teaches me. It teaches me because I test the spirits of those meaning just like I am taught to. I do not strive to remain short of the knowledge of what God is actually teaching me in Scripture.
The Spirit leads even those who have not yet received the Spirit in such a way as to live by it.
John the Baptist was probably educated as his father was a Priest. Peter may not have been before Jesus taught him as he was just a fisherman.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,12:48) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2013,05:36) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,11:52) Why should I put any man on a pedestal?
You shouldn't. So why DO you do it with the MEN who produced the KJV – as if they, being mere men like us, were unable to make a mistake?
Mike B.You believe the gospels.
Are you putting the apostles on a pedestal?wakeup.
Yes Wakeup. I do put the Apostles and the early disciples of Jesus – the ones who walked with Jesus and heard the teachings out of Jesus' own mouth – on a pedestal. How highly favored by God these mere men must have been to have bestowed upon them such a wonderful experience as learning directly from the mouth of Jesus Christ.But why did you ask that question? Do you consider the men, who in 1611 produced the KJV, to be on an equal playing field with Peter, John, Paul, and the others who wrote the NT?
If so, WHY?
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 30 2013,18:28) God created Adam and Adam chose to sin. God did not create a sinful Adam, though he did create Adam with the free will to do either good or evil. The same is true with Satan.
Well said, Kerwin. And excellent point!(I edited your words a little bit. I hope you don't mind.)
Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 01 2013,08:07) We learn that anything described as EVIL is against God’s Holy commandments as he is the one that set the rules in the first place.
That indeed WAS a long post, journey.
But let's focus on the part I quoted above for a minute. I agree with you 100% that “evil” can be defined as going AGAINST God's commandments, rules, and teachings.
So did God actually create the ACT of going against His own commandments? Because it is that ACT that is “evil”.
To say God created beings with the CHOICE of following God (righteousness) or NOT following God (evil) is not the same as saying God actually created the ACT of being evil.
Or do you think it is?
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 03 2013,17:28) HOW CAN THERE BE EVIL IF GOD DID NOT CREATE IT?
That's like saying God created the act of child molestation, Wakeup.The fact that certain people go against God and molest children doesn't mean that God created the evil act of child molestation, right?
Kerwin,
Keep up the good posts on this topic!
journey and Wakeup, listen to Kerwin on this one.
The Bible hasn't become a “circus”. It is not getting “watered down”. There is nothing at all wrong with computers, Google, Wikipedia, dictionaries, and lexicons being used as serious study aids to help us understand the scriptures.
I'm sorry guys, but your whole argument seems to be: The regular old MEN who translated the KJV are right every time, and that's all there is to it. And that means all other English Bibles suck.
It is a lame and laughable argument – and not one a serious student of scripture would dare to make.
The KJV is but one of many English translations of the Hebrew and Greek scriptures. Nothing more, and nothing less. It has flaws just like the rest of them.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 05 2013,10:34) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,12:48) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2013,05:36) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 30 2013,11:52) Why should I put any man on a pedestal?
You shouldn't. So why DO you do it with the MEN who produced the KJV – as if they, being mere men like us, were unable to make a mistake?
Mike B.You believe the gospels.
Are you putting the apostles on a pedestal?wakeup.
Yes Wakeup. I do put the Apostles and the early disciples of Jesus – the ones who walked with Jesus and heard the teachings out of Jesus' own mouth – on a pedestal. How highly favored by God these mere men must have been to have bestowed upon them such a wonderful experience as learning directly from the mouth of Jesus Christ.But why did you ask that question? Do you consider the men, who in 1611 produced the KJV, to be on an equal playing field with Peter, John, Paul, and the others who wrote the NT?
If so, WHY?
MikeB64.Revelation 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen,
***I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel***
which shewed me these things.Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me,
***See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant***,
and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.(THEM WHICH KEEP THE SAYINGS OF **THIS**BOOK).
NOT THE DISTORTERS OF THIS BOOK.You can not even worship angels,for they are our fellow servants of God.
But we must honour ALL our brethren.King James and his men translating the scriptures are used by God to do His work. They are not special men.
God could use any men to His choice.
The apostles were not special men,except for the
spirit in them. They must have been real honest men.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 05 2013,10:52) Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 01 2013,08:07) We learn that anything described as EVIL is against God’s Holy commandments as he is the one that set the rules in the first place.
That indeed WAS a long post, journey.But let's focus on the part I quoted above for a minute. I agree with you 100% that “evil” can be defined as going AGAINST God's commandments, rules, and teachings.
So did God actually create the ACT of going against His own commandments? Because it is that ACT that is “evil”.
To say God created beings with the CHOICE of following God (righteousness) or NOT following God (evil) is not the same as saying God actually created the ACT of being evil.
Or do you think it is?
Mikeb64God does not contradict himself.
God also is not hiding anything.
He is telling us the truth,that he created evil also.
He created everything;evil included.
Without evil around we can not know evil.
Without the serpent in the garden,Eve would not have been tempted.We as future children of God must know all evil.
The worse kind of evil.
And it is displayed today,and coming days, when the false
prophet comes.wakeup.
Wakeup……….Good observation, without Evil we or any other creature God or angels could know what Good is. Did not God say , look man has become as we are to “KNOW” (experience) Good and Evil. So scripture shows the knowledge of Good and Evil is an attribute of God . And seeing God is the Creator of ALL things that exist and seeing LIFE itself is the balance of good and evil forces, it does appear to me also that God created it. Did he not place it in the Garden in the first place, He could have removed Evil from the earth or never let it even exist. In fact he will remove it from the earth during the reign of Jesus and the Saints, for a thousand years, and will restore it back afterwords , There would be no meaning to life without both present both now and in the future also.
These to forces exercise us giving us Wisdom Just as Eve Said when she came to see it would make us wise and more like God and God even said it did. There eyes were Opened to see and understand for themselves what life was about and how it operated, their eyes were opened when they took to themselves to “KNOW” (have an inmate relationship with) good and evil. It's kind of like the saying, “experience is the best teacher”, even if it has hardships that go alone with it.
God is SOVEREIGN in all creation and allows what he allows and He is the source of all life and that includes good and evil, because it takes one to explain the other, like right takes left, and up takes down, so it is with good and evil you cant have one without the other they define each other. God knew all along Man would go the way he went, it was in his plan, he created this “PROPENSITY” in us all, He knows the end from the beginning. So to say he takes no responsibility for Good “AND” Evil is simply untrue, remember that tree was placed there by him in the Garden of Eden. IMO
peace and love…………………………..gene
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,21:05) King James and his men translating the scriptures are used by God to do His work.
Okay. Now we're getting nearer to clearer.So it's not that you think the MEN who produced the KJV are anything special – it's that you think God personally had His hand in the translation of the KJV, and no other English Bible. Is that it?
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 04 2013,21:31) Mikeb64 God does not contradict himself.
God also is not hiding anything.
He is telling us the truth,that he created evil also.
But that's just it, Wakeup. God never told anyone He “created evil”.If that erroneous claim from the KJV people were true, then it would be equally true that God alone is the reason for all the evil in the world today…… because He is the one who created it in the first place.
And that would mean that God alone is responsible for children being raped, homosexual activity, murders, lying, cheating, stealing, etc.
But let's go with homosexuality for a second. In scripture, Moses tells us that God despises men who sleep with other men. How can God despise this evil act, if God Himself is the one who created that evil act in the first place?
1. Is God ALONE personally responsible for all the evil in the world today? YES or NO?
2. Is God ALONE personally responsible for babies getting raped and put in microwaves and frying pans, etc? YES or NO?
3. Is God ALONE personally responsible for the evil act of sodomy? YES or NO?
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