what truth do we know for sure ?

Blocked

Tim,

What can I say? Your understanding, while good natured and optimistic, is not even close to what the scriptures teach. Gene has listed one scripture that tells of a fatal warning from Jesus. I'll add two more:

Matthew 10:15
I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
Tim, do you remember what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah? Jesus says it will be EVEN WORSE for the towns that don't accept the gospel or his disciples. Do you think Jesus was just kidding?

Matthew 25
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Tim, Jesus speaks of a division. The righteous will receive a reward while the unrighteous will receive “eternal punishment”. YOU speak of EVERYONE receiving the same reward and NO ONE receiving any punishment.

Your words do not match the words of our Lord and Judge. I will believe Jesus.

peace,
mike

November 28, 2011 at 10:55 am#266185

Participant

Hey Mike: Lets take a look at your post.

YOU SAID:
What can I say? Your understanding, while good natured and optimistic, is not even close to what the scriptures teach. Gene has listed one scripture that tells of a fatal warning from Jesus. I'll add two more:

……VERY INTERESTING….A FATAL(DEATH) WARNING FROM THE PRINCE OF PEACE TO A BORN AGAIN BELIEVER IN CHRIST THAT IS PROMISED SCRIPTURAL ETERNAL LIFE!…..

…..SADLY, [YOU] HAVE APPARENTLY PLACED ME IN THE POSITION OF BEING A HEATHEN, NON-GOD FEARING, NON-GOSPEL BELIEVING, SINNER REFUSING TO BELIEVE THE TRUTH OF JESUS AND PARTAKE OF HIS KINGDOM FOR “WHOSOEVER WILL ACCEPT AND BELIEVE”!….

Matthew 25
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

……ONCE AGAIN, VERY SADLY, I GUESS YOU HAVE JUDGED ME AS A NON-BELIEVING HEATHEN APART FROM GOD!……

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

……I ACCEPT JESUS AS MY LORD AND SAVIOR…I ACCEPT HIS TOTAL GIFT OF SALVATION WHICH INCLUDES BEING SAVED FROM THE CURSE AND I AM WORKING DAILY TO DESTROY DEVILS/LIES AND LEARN THE PURIFIED TRUTH OF JESUS WHICH CASTS OUT DECEPTION AND DARKNESS…..

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

……OF ALL ON THIS SITE I HAVE OPENLY CLAIMED MY RIGHTEOUSNESS IN GOD THROUGH CHRIST…..HAVE I BEEN DENIED BY GOD?…….

…..DOESN'T THE BIBLE SAY OVER AND OVER….''WHOSOEVER WILL BELIEVE''…? THOSE THAT ARE RIGHTEOUS ARE… [RIGHTEOUS BY FAITH]… IN THE FINISHED WORK OF JESUS. RIGHTEOUSNESS IS A PART OF THE ENTIRE SALVATION PACKAGE PROVIDED BY JESUS. I THOUGHT THOSE WHO CAME TO JESUS BY FAITH RECEIVED ETERNAL LIFE! I DON'T PRESENT HERE TO DO GOOD DEEDS FOR SALVATION OR DO FINE WORKS TO MAKE GOD HAPPY! I WAS A NOBODY IN SIN UNTIL I BELIEVED IN THE GIFT OF GOD THROUGH JESUS. NOW YOU SAY I'M DAMNED TO ETERNAL DESTRUCTION!
I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT YOU FEEL THIS WAY ABOUT ME. YOU MAY HAVE HAD A BAD DAY OR SOMETHING BUT I DON'T BELIEVE YOU THINK I'AM ACCURSED!!

Your words do not match the words of our Lord and Judge. I will believe Jesus.

……THEY ARE NOT EVEN “MY” WORDS….I ONLY USE THE WORDS OF JESUS….JESUS HAS JUDGED ME. I CAME TO HIM, ACCEPTED WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR ME AND [ALL WHO WILL BELIEVE]. HE DID THE WORKS. I HAVE NOTHING TO BOAST ABOUT. IT WAS A GIFT OF GOD. WHAT IT HAS DONE FOR ME/BELIEVERS IS FORGIVE, CLEANSE, MAKE WHOLE, SAVE TO THE UTTERMOST,MAKE WORTHY, MAKE RIGHTEOUS, AND MAKE PERFECT SONS OF GOD……ONLY THROUGH FAITH IN HIM…..!!

WHAT WOULD SOMEONE BE JUDGED FOR IF THEY ARE ALREADY JUDGED PERFECT IN CHRIST? THERE IS NO CONDEMNATION IN CHRIST JESUS. IF YOU ARE CONDEMNED FOR ANYTHING IT IS NOT GOD/JESUS CONDEMNING YOU!! THESE ARE MY TRUTH FROM GOD/ FAITH BELIEFS. IMO,TK

November 28, 2011 at 4:09 pm#266192

Participant

TIM…………Beautifully put brother, “woe” to them who cast stumbling blocks before the feet of GOD and Jesus' Little ones. Another thing Tim, Mike misquoted that scripture , it is refereeing to “the NATIONS” and the “FIRE” there is speaking of (INTENSE JUDGMENTS) upon those NATIONS. Jesus will divide the Nation it say as one divide the sheep from the Goats.

peace and love to you and yours Tim…………………………………………….gene

November 29, 2011 at 1:16 am#266257

Blocked

I don't know what to say. Tim, I posted scriptures that speak of the righteous being saved and the unrighteous being destroyed. I did this to show you that there WILL be punishment for the unrighteous, DESPITE what you personally want to believe.

How in the world you decided I was calling YOU unrighteous from that post is beyond me.

November 29, 2011 at 1:23 am#266258

Blocked

Gene,

Do you agree with Tim, that no one will be punished for their wicked acts?

If so, then I can see why you told Tim “beautifully put”.

But if you don't agree with him on this point, then what exactly did he put so beautifully?

(Tim, I don't say this as a slam to your post, but just to show Gene once again that he will agree with anyone who seems to be disagreeing with, or yelling at me – whether or not he even knows what we're talking about. )

November 29, 2011 at 2:10 am#266259

terraricca

Participant

this is for you;

Job 18:5 “The lamp of the wicked is snuffed out;
the flame of his fire stops burning.
Job 18:6 The light in his tent becomes dark;
the lamp beside him goes out.
Job 18:7 The vigor of his step is weakened;
his own schemes throw him down.
Job 18:8 His feet thrust him into a net
and he wanders into its mesh.
Job 18:9 A trap seizes him by the heel;
a snare holds him fast.
Job 18:10 A noose is hidden for him on the ground;
a trap lies in his path.
Job 18:11 Terrors startle him on every side
and dog his every step.
Job 18:12 Calamity is hungry for him;
disaster is ready for him when he falls.
Job 18:13 It eats away parts of his skin;
death’s firstborn devours his limbs.
Job 18:14 He is torn from the security of his tent
and marched off to the king of terrors.
Job 18:15 Fire resides in his tent;
burning sulfur is scattered over his dwelling.
Job 18:16 His roots dry up below
and his branches wither above.
Job 18:17 The memory of him perishes from the earth;
he has no name in the land.
Job 18:18 He is driven from light into darkness
and is banished from the world.
Job 18:19 He has no offspring or descendants among his people,
no survivor where once he lived.
Job 18:20 Men of the west are appalled at his fate;
men of the east are seized with horror.
Job 18:21 Surely such is the dwelling of an evil man;
such is the place of one who knows not God.”

the rule;

MT 7:1 “ Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
MT 7:2 “For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
1CO 11:31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.

the sentence;;;
JN 3:18 “ He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1CO 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.
2TH 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

their are two possibilities to live on ;righteousness and unrighteouness this mean one does and one does not do Gods will or love God,that simple

Pierre

November 29, 2011 at 3:01 am#266261

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 28 2011,01:40)

Tim,

Matthew 25
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Your words do not match the words of our Lord and Judge. I will believe Jesus.

peace,
mike

Mike……….Again you misrepresent and twist the Truth where did Tim or I say there is no punishment for the wicked, I have never said that nor do i believe Tim has either.

Please show me where one Time or I have said that , now try to be specific if you can for a change Mike, that is if you know how to be specific . Other wise you simply have just told another LIE, which you seem to be good at. Come one Mike just one word where i have every said “there is not punishment for the wick”, just one word Mike or just admit you are a LIER. That is if you are not Coward as you accused me of being> IMO

November 29, 2011 at 3:21 pm#266296

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 29 2011,11:16)

How in the world you decided I was calling YOU unrighteous from that post is beyond me.

Mike: My reply, though poorly written to say what I intended, was supposed to be referencing….the doctrines or the information was to be destroyed but not the person. The fires of the spirit(the light of the lord) is now burning and will burn up all beliefs in sin, unworthiness, uncleanliness, unrighteousness, and any and all imperfections in our minds or hearts. I believe the Holy Ghost and fire has come and is coming and will make itself available to each individual human being, mostly one at a time as they are exposed to the truth of God.

The Holy Spirit being the truth from God through Jesus, that comes to an individual will either be accepted, so as to create a new person, cleansed in mind/spirit unto God….or….. that individual will reject the truth, remain in death/evil thinking/sin,errant thinking and be destroyed by the fires that consume evil unto death.

The choice of truth to believe is still…good/life/live….or…Evil/death/die….! Those who accept the righteousness of God…by faith….will live! Those who say they must do works or deeds or follow laws…[to be righteous] or for them to receive the righteousness of God, are still in sin/death, because they have rejected the righteousness that Jesus bought for them.

You are right that if a man rejects his gift of righteousness from Jesus he will die from the fires, sicknesses, diseases that are come to destroy human life.

I apologize for my own ignorance in the previous post! With love, TK

November 30, 2011 at 2:39 am#266375

Blocked

Just to be clear, Tim:

You DO think that actual PEOPLE will be judged and punished? Or you don't?

November 30, 2011 at 1:27 pm#266416

Participant

Mike: Great question! Tricky answer. May I again use my “computer” example. A strong, fast, healthy computer is perfect. A human being is made from God, perfect! If the computer is programed with errant information it will attempt to operate with that errant information and may do so even though the programing is full of virus, wrong, slow etc. and will eventually collapse! If a human being is programed from errant information he is still perfect its only the programming that is evil.

We have been given a choice in our own life. Jesus came to re-program us to truth. One main difference between the computer and a human being is we can choose. The computer cannot. It must take what it gets and work with that.

Jesus came to a dark world where most all mankind was in error of thought. The common error of thinking was that we were sinner and in sin by certain things we did or didn't do. There was no one with the truth on the planet. So, Man created religion (his own ideas about gods) and thousands of rules and rituals and offerings and sacrifices and things to do and not to do to please or pacify a multitude of different gods.

John came first to tell the people to turn around from “the way” they were going [Temple worship] for the Kingdom of God is NEAR! John introduced Baptism as a metaphoric picture of death to the old way/ resurrection to the New Spirit/words Way of God. Baptism also symbolized a brain washing. Washing away the old programing to allow for the new Truth of God through Jesus.

Jesus said all that was before was until John, since then, the Kingdom of God or the ruling truth of God was come to anyone who will accept and believe the new truth. Jesus called it being “born again”! Re-created, [mentally] to see and understand the new programing of the human mind. Jesus laid out the new truth of God which would now cause one of two things to happen within the human being. Man had accepted and believed in good and evil from the beginning. So evil, death, and destruction as sinners was already at work by faith in mankind to destroy his life. Now comes Gods truth/spirit/words that will build up, create and give eternal life back to any man that accepts and believes. God, through Jesus, provides all mankind a way out of the death sentence!

So, new programing of ''life'' through Jesus is sown unto mankind for his choice once again. So the same choice Adam had in the Garden of Eden/heart is now made evident unto man. Good and evil! Life and Death! To whom will we give our attention to or swear our allegiance too? Jesus/good or Evil/death!

The old programing of fear, sin, death, and dying was at work to destroy mankind by Adams choice. Now through Jesus we can be saved from that death and dying programing to new life programing in Christ. We will continue to burn and die from sickness and disease and all forms of evil/death if we don't choose out!

So, God does not kill and destroy anyone or anything. Man who is in charge of the Earth that God gave to him, had made the choice to die. Jesus now gives us the choice to live eternally again. If we choose the life given through Jesus from God we live again as God/Man! If we don't choose to re-program our computer/minds with life truth, we continue to die. We don't have to choose death its already at work. We have been programed with death in the end. Shall we destroy the computer or re-program it to perfection by faith!

Pay no attention to life in Jesus and you are doomed to death. Listen to Jesus/the word, he will judge you. Here's judgment: Jesus says your perfect, ordained, cleansed, worthy, righteous, and holy unto God. If you accept that programming you become that computer. Its our choice, God and Jesus have done the work to make the new birth possible. They rest, as we choose. We must choose and hold on because evil, wicked, words, spirits, doctrines will be used to convince you this is untrue. Hold fast my brothers, IMO, TK

November 30, 2011 at 2:14 pm#266418

Participant

Tim …………I agree with most all you have written there, except i believe it is not our Choice, Just as a computer can not chose its own program neither can we . God must Move on us to (CAUSE) that Choice He must initiate that process, remember Jesus said no man (CAN) come unto me except the Father Draw Him God the Father is the Master Programmer ever person GOD programs to do his will does it salvation is not about Mans Choice it is abut GOD'S Choice. Man on his own would never in a billion years chose Gods way that must be put in His heart to do so. For he Says I will take out of them the stony heart (hard heart) and (GIVE) them a Heart of Flesh (Soft Heart) and I will write my laws in their inward Parts and them shall they be my people and i shall be their GOD. God is the Master Programmer, all who he has chose to do his work did it even those he chose before they were ever born, as Jeremiah , John the Baptist, Moses , Jesus and all who he saves by his spirits work. Therefore it say an God gives to each man a (MEASURE) of FAITH. That gift of Faith is from God and causes us to Chose GOD. We are predestined for salvation. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Tim………………………………………………………..gene

November 30, 2011 at 3:26 pm#266422

Participant

Hi Gene: How are you and God bless you. I just re-read this post, HANG ON TO YOUR HAT THIS IS A WILD ONE!!

We do believe in opposition to one another on this point. I have reason that I cannot go into at this point to believe that it was just as important for God as it was for mankind that there be absolute, protected, free will choice by man on anything and everything in this Earthly life.

When God gave the earth and all its fulness to man along with the beasts of the field, birds, and fish I don't think God left anything under his control without having to ask a man for permission for God to act on the mans behalf in this realm. I say this with all reverence and respect unto God almighty but he is the one who chose this way.

So why might God give total control to man in the earth. It could be that God/Man or God dwelling within man was the only way God could experience the fullness or wholeness of life/himself! There was only God at the beginning. ONE is alone with no reflection but himself. GOD is ONE is everything and in everything but what do the differing aspects of God feel like. How can one experience parts of himself when he is only ONE! So, maybe God made an earth-suit and created a world of relativity or relative, split-forces of the whole. God split from himself a piece of mind for each soul. The physical bodies grew from earth/seed! God breathed his spirit into the first man and it was accepted or breathed into every baby born. Spirit/pure light is the fastest vibration there is. When its frequency is slowed down spirit turns to matter and the more solid the matter the harder or more dense it gets! So, there you have it, a world for spirit to experience it infinite knowledge with feelings attached. Now no longer would one who Hot & Cold existed, they could experience either or, some or some-more, a little, a-lot, real good, not so good etc.

The world of relative choice for personal desires. Not good and evil! There is no evil. Its differing aspects of God. Opposing parts with perfect in the middle balance. God is in man experiencing himself completely. Once born of a woman into the earth realm the man has complete control of all aspects and choices. If God were in charge he would be inclined to pick and choose what he liked best. That doesn't teach you how the opposing side ''love'' feels. Those he likes and those he doesn't like. No right no wrong (individually) just experience!
All experience is relative to many different things, reasons, accommodations etc.!

After a lifetime or millions of lifetimes the soul of man begins to tug at him to find his source to return home in God where we came. That is what I see as the main calling of God. For me the word ''predestined” gives me a chill up the spine. For me and for now, I can't go along with my life being in any way predestined.

This is probably weird to you and rightfully so it is a composite created in me, I have never read anything exact or nearly like it. Please take it in stride. Feel free to respond if you wish because I learn from you each time I read you. So in this theory God is part of the equation and the two are ONE! We can't complain, we do the choosing!(even though we do) God bless you brother, IMO, TK

November 30, 2011 at 6:51 pm#266427

Ed J

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 27 2011,04:18)

Ed, the first words are “CONCERNING THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST”. Yet you say that Jesus' second coming was at pentecost, right?

Hi Mike,

2Thess.2:1-2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together
unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word,
nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

“The day of Christ” and “the day of the LORD” are the same thing, like
the “Kingdom of Heaven” and the “Kingdom of God” are the same thing.
Our gathering together unto him is the Feast of Tabernacles(ingathering).

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

November 30, 2011 at 7:25 pm#266428

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 01 2011,00:14)

peace and love to you and yours Tim………………………………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

Is it not true that the Father drawing all unto himself?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

November 30, 2011 at 8:14 pm#266436

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 01 2011,12:25)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 01 2011,00:14)

peace and love to you and yours Tim………………………………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

Is it not true that the Father drawing all unto himself?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

yes,but many are deaf

December 1, 2011 at 2:10 am#266482

Blocked

Quote (ftk @ Nov. 30 2011,06:27)

Mike: Great question! Tricky answer. May I again use my “computer” example.

I'd prefer a simple and direct answer, if you don't mind.

Do you believe that Jesus will judge actual PEOPLE? Do you believe that the ones Jesus judges unfavorably will be destoyed?

Tim, WILL PEOPLE BE DESTROYED ON JUDGEMENT DAY AT THE COMMAND OF OUR GOD, AND BECAUSE OF THE JUDGEMENT OF OUR LORD?

December 1, 2011 at 2:28 am#266489

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 30 2011,11:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 27 2011,04:18)

Ed, the first words are “CONCERNING THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST”. Yet you say that Jesus' second coming was at pentecost, right?

Hi Mike,

Ed, you're misreading your bolded part. Paul is saying to not be shaken by any reports such as: the day of Christ is at hand.

He is saying to NOT believe that if you hear someone say or write it.

You need to check some other translations, and perhaps a Greek lexicon. The KJV words it confusingly. But trust me, Paul is saying that the coming of our Lord HASN'T happened, so don't be troubled if you hear people (like you) start saying it has.

December 1, 2011 at 11:25 am#266523

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2011,12:10)

Quote (ftk @ Nov. 30 2011,06:27)

Mike: Great question! Tricky answer. May I again use my “computer” example.

I'd prefer a simple and direct answer, if you don't mind.

Do you believe that Jesus will judge actual PEOPLE? Do you believe that the ones Jesus judges unfavorably will be destoyed?

Tim, WILL PEOPLE BE DESTROYED ON JUDGEMENT DAY AT THE COMMAND OF OUR GOD, AND BECAUSE OF THE JUDGEMENT OF OUR LORD?

Mike: I will be as direct as I can be.

When a man accepts, believes and holds fast… the truth of Jesus from God that makes him perfect…..he is eternally judged perfect in Christ. He has then been judged there is no further judgment, he is alive in Christ and cleansed of all sin, whats to judge?

Gods Kingdom is come and his will is being done on earth as it is done in heaven/by spirit. [God is not willing for any to perish] Faith pleases God/saves mankind!

Jesus/the word of God is judging the people right now! The sheep and the goats are being separated by the two edged sword/spirit words of God right now!

The wheat and the tares are now, all things pertaining to the Kingdom of God came with Jesus, are in Jesus, are transferred by spirit words into accepting human beings, which re-create the mind back into a God/Man, as was at the beginning.

The wheat is being gathered by the words of God through Jesus and the tares or unbelieving are being burned and destroyed by the fires of the Holy Spirit. Two edged/double words…..words that heal and make whole and perfect to those who accept and believe…..and words that when rejected or not accepted by faith leave the person exposed to evil/death/disease etc. that he is in! We either accept the salvation given by God through Jesus or we are not saved and die!

Stop looking for a “certain day” for judgment. Judgment day comes when a person hears the word/truth of Jesus. If they accept they are clean and perfect. If they say oh, no, I'm just an old sinner, sinning every day, oh woah! They will die in sin.

The fires of death and destruction are happening right now. People are dying from the inside out! Sickness is a murderer! Disease is a killer. They certainly are not life and peace! Pain and suffering are not of God. Why do we allow/yield to these things and many more evil things. I thought we were supposed to fight the good fight of faith. Gird yourself with the truth, stand up tall and fight for faith to destroy all wicked. IMO,TK

December 1, 2011 at 11:52 am#266527

Ed J

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2011,12:28)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 30 2011,11:51)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 27 2011,04:18)

Ed, the first words are “CONCERNING THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST”. Yet you say that Jesus' second coming was at pentecost, right?

Hi Mike,

Ed, you're misreading your bolded part. Paul is saying to not be shaken by any reports such as: the day of Christ is at hand.

He is saying to NOT believe that if you hear someone say or write it.

Hi Mike,

“The day of Christ” and “the day of the LORD” are one;
and that is a reference to the “Feast of Tabernacles”.
But Jesus return was in spirit form on Pentecost.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

December 1, 2011 at 5:10 pm#266539