What is the difference between

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ June 19 2014,15:09)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 19 2014,05:48) Kerwin, what point were you trying to make to Pierre with this stuff anyway?  I butted in because I saw you post that John was sent “FROM HEAVEN” – something that is never said in any scripture.  I wanted to make sure you realized that you were misquoting scripture. But what were you posting that to Pierre for in the first place? Mike, Sent can use as ordered and from can be used or the source.  Consult a dictionary and you will find that our.  I looked it up.  It is not mistranslated though you may not be used to that used of the words while the translators were more familiar with them. The pattern is ordered from source.  So saying God, heaven, God's throne, above, or anything else that shows the same source has the same general meaning. I also think by and from are near synonyms in this case.

Okay then,

It should be fairly easy for you to find a quote where soldiers were sent “FROM Washington” – even though they were never actually IN Washington.

I tried yesterday, but didn't have any luck.  Show me a couple of examples where someone was sent FROM a particular place (not “person”) – but they weren't actually ever IN that place before they were sent.

Also, answer the questions I left in the quote box above.  Tell me what point you are trying to make with this.  I suspect I know already, and if I'm right, we could nip this whole thing in the bud – without carrying on back and forth for the next couple of months.  

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 20 2014,09:21)

Quote (kerwin @ June 19 2014,15:09) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 19 2014,05:48) Kerwin, what point were you trying to make to Pierre with this stuff anyway?  I butted in because I saw you post that John was sent “FROM HEAVEN” – something that is never said in any scripture.  I wanted to make sure you realized that you were misquoting scripture. But what were you posting that to Pierre for in the first place? Mike, Sent can use as ordered and from can be used or the source.  Consult a dictionary and you will find that our.  I looked it up.  It is not mistranslated though you may not be used to that used of the words while the translators were more familiar with them. The pattern is ordered from source.  So saying God, heaven, God's throne, above, or anything else that shows the same source has the same general meaning. I also think by and from are near synonyms in this case. Okay then, It should be fairly easy for you to find a quote where soldiers were sent “FROM Washington” – even though they were never actually IN Washington. I tried yesterday, but didn't have any luck.  Show me a couple of examples where someone was sent FROM a particular place (not “person”) – but they weren't actually ever IN that place before they were sent. Also, answer the questions I left in the quote box above.  Tell me what point you are trying to make with this.  I suspect I know already, and if I'm right, we could nip this whole thing in the bud – without carrying on back and forth for the next couple of months.

Mike,

You have never taken a quote before when I gave it to you so it would be a waste of my time to look. You are quote from Scripture that John was sent from God if you are so limited that you cannot figure out that above, heaven, and God's throne means the same think when used in this way then there is no evidence that I can give you that will convince you otherwise.

You also probably understanding this one as it is irrelevant the physical location that the good and perfect gift comes from. If it is good and perfect then God is its author.

James 1:17
Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Every good and perfect gift descends from above, from The Father of lights with whom there is no change nor a shadow of variation.

What comes from God, comes from above.

[kerwin]

Mike,

It might be easier to understand if you heard the claim a prophet of God is a heaven-sent messenger.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2014,09:53)

Mike, It might be easier to understand if you heard the claim a prophet of God is a heaven-sent messenger.

k

PS 105:15 “ Do not touch My anointed ones,
And do My prophets no harm.”

but no prophet is a HEAVEN SEND MESSENGER “

i DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOU GOT THIS FROM ,

but any man that is send to men from God ;is not from heaven

only Christ is the man that came from heaven send from the father as a son,give his life and went back from where he came, Heaven that is ,

and this claim is in the scriptures kerwin

not yours ;

[kerwin]

T,

Heaven sent means ordered from heaven.

An earth sent messenger is one sent from this world of sin and this is a false prophet, a servant of the god of this world.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (terraricca @ June 21 2014,01:38)

Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2014,09:53) Mike, It might be easier to understand if you heard the claim a prophet of God is a heaven-sent messenger. k PS 105:15 “ Do not touch My anointed ones, And do My prophets no harm.” but no prophet is a HEAVEN SEND MESSENGER “ i DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOU GOT THIS FROM , but any man that is send to men from God ;is not from heaven only Christ is the man that came from heaven send from the father as a son,give his life and went back from where he came, Heaven that is , and this claim is in the scriptures kerwin not yours ;

Terricca…………If you understood that God is in Heaven and if he sent someone to you it was indeed from heaven, Jesus was sent by God and therefore was sent from heaven same as the prophets were, every one know the prophets were sent from God and so was Jesus. Pierre anyone who has the Spirit of God in them have it from above.

Remember what Jesus said……….> Joh 12:49…> For i have not spoken of “MYSELF” but the Father which sent me he gave me commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. (50) and I know that “HIS” commandment IS LIFE EVERLASTING; whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me so I speak.

It seem someone was telling the man Jesus what to say and giving him HIS WORDS HE SPOKE.

Pierre, you Idea is that Jesus WAS and IS THE WORD, is from your false assumption of John 1:1 , don't feel bad because you have plenty company , my only hope is that you will come out of those false teachings unto the real light of the truth.

peace and love to you and yours………….gene

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2014,22:29)

T, Heaven sent means ordered from heaven.   An earth sent messenger is one sent from this world of sin and this is a false prophet, a servant of the god of this world.

K

according to my understanding of scriptures ;

we have lost our relationship with our creator, and it is us ,that look up ,to God and search him because we can see that this world is not the way to go ,this as been like this sins the Sin of Adam ,

God through his mercy and kindness for those who seek him as made it possible to bring us back to him ,BUT IN TIME, so to do that he as set promises,and those promises will be kept no matter what ,

God talk in many different ways to those that look for him ,but as for the promise given to the Patriarch it will stand on it self ,for all to see ,

all the prophets send where send to his (God's) people ,the people of the promise he made to the forefathers ,of the nation of Israel,

their for that message was addressed to them ,for the things to come for the purpose to fulfill the promise God made

none of them where messengers from heaven ;but earthly messengers inspired by God spirit of truth to give instruction to his people to bring them acceptable to receive the promise ;

after years of trying to save them God finally at a last resort send his only begotten son from heaven (the only heavenly messenger ever send in the cover of flesh )to them but of no avail they killed him ,but never that less he saved whoever believed in him ,his son Jesus Christ return to his father in heaven and promised that he will come back ;this return we all waiting for ,because this is the fulfillment of God's promise

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 21 2014,00:33)

Quote (terraricca @ June 21 2014,01:38) Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2014,09:53) Mike, It might be easier to understand if you heard the claim a prophet of God is a heaven-sent messenger. k PS 105:15 “ Do not touch My anointed ones, And do My prophets no harm.” but no prophet is a HEAVEN SEND MESSENGER “ i DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOU GOT THIS FROM , but any man that is send to men from God ;is not from heaven only Christ is the man that came from heaven send from the father as a son,give his life and went back from where he came, Heaven that is , and this claim is in the scriptures kerwin not yours ; Terricca…………If you understood that God is in Heaven and if he sent someone to you it was indeed from heaven, Jesus was sent by God and therefore was sent from heaven same as the prophets were, every one know the prophets were sent from God and so was Jesus. Pierre anyone who has the Spirit of God in them have it from above. Remember what Jesus said……….> Joh 12:49…> For i have not spoken of “MYSELF” but the Father which sent me he gave me commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. (50) and I know that “HIS” commandment IS LIFE EVERLASTING; whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me so I speak. It seem someone was telling the man Jesus what to say and giving him HIS WORDS HE SPOKE. Pierre, you Idea is that Jesus WAS and IS  THE WORD, is from your false assumption of John 1:1 , don't feel bad because you have plenty company , my only hope is that you will come out of those false teachings unto the real light of the truth. peace and love to you and yours………….gene

gene

Quote

If you understood that God is in Heaven and if he sent someone to you it was indeed from heaven, Jesus was sent by God and therefore was sent from heaven

what make you so sure that I do not understand or believe that God does not lives in heaven ;

scriptures says that God send his son to earth in the cover of flesh ,and so came down and return after his resurrection ,and promise to come back

[kerwin]

T,

I do not want to get ahead of your understanding but perhaps you can see by this verse.

John 17:14
New International Version (NIV)

14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.

Jesus is stating his disciples are not of earth. So since they are not of this earth where are they from?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ June 21 2014,03:59)

T, I do not want to get ahead of your understanding but perhaps you can see by this verse. John 17:14 New International Version (NIV) 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. Jesus is stating his disciples are not of earth.  So since they are not of this earth where are they from?

k

YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES NOT JUST READING IT ;

what was the purpose of Christ saying that to his disciples

what was Christ coming and dead and resurrection

when Christ says they are not any longer from this world WHY BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOW JOINT THE PROMISE THAT GOD GIVE TO THE PATRIARCH ABRAHAM ,

UNDERSTAND THAT THEIR IS ONLY TWO WORLDS 1)GOD'S 2) THE DEVIL ;THAT 'S IT ,IF YOU ARE NOT IN #1 YOU ARE IN #2

DO NOT ASSUME WHAT YOU THINK BUT WHAT IT REALLY SAYS

[kerwin]

T,

Quote

UNDERSTAND THAT THEIR IS ONLY TWO WORLDS 1)GOD'S 2) THE DEVIL ;THAT 'S IT ,IF YOU ARE NOT IN #1 YOU ARE IN #2

That is my point. The prophets were sent from a place that was not of this world because that is where the message they carried came from.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ June 21 2014,09:06)

T, Quote UNDERSTAND THAT THEIR IS ONLY TWO WORLDS 1)GOD'S 2) THE DEVIL ;THAT 'S IT  ,IF YOU ARE NOT IN #1 YOU ARE IN #2 That is my point.  The prophets were sent from a place that was not of this world because that is where the message they carried came from.

K

I see what you mean ,but that is not the right way to express it ,

sins what God gives us is for us not for the world ;and if we receive it ,it is to give to those that seek him ,the others will not understand the message ,but the message in it self does not send anyone ,it is the spirit of truth that compels us to do so ,good news is hard to keep for our self ,living words have to spread ,

the prophets where the carriers of the message ,not the source ,and so in a way they like a postman are send for delivery ,it is not important if the message was given directly by a angel that came to visit or a dream at night ,or a vision ,

it is not important how the message got to the prophet the importance is where it came from ;that is what make it special delivery

i also want you to understand that the two system of world are both here on earth and are dividing the people into two classes ;the fact that God send one of his prophets to the people or kings or…..they are more like ambassadors ,spokesman of God will ,but all the prophets where man of the flesh ;except one that is Jesus Christ the only begotten son of God he came down for a special delivery ,and return when it was delivered

[kerwin]

T,

The prophets received their orders from out of this world therefore they were sent from out of this world.  Sent means ordered and from is telling the hearer what follows is the source of those orders.  That is why is written that John was sent from God.  God was above when he gave John those orders so the source is also above and so John was sent from above means the same thing.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ June 22 2014,01:44)

T, The prophets received their orders from out of this world therefore they were sent from out of this world.  Sent means ordered and from is telling the hearer what follows is the source of those orders.  That is why is written that John was sent from God.  God was above when he gave John those orders so the source is also above and so John was sent from above means the same thing.

K

this world as two option but all still is as it was when Adam sinned

the division of the two world are only in their views like one is of God's will, the other is of men's will ;

God does not give orders unless he is ready to destroy your wickedness ;

Quote

The prophets received their orders from out of this world therefore they were sent from out of this world.

how could the words of God be out of his own creation

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ June 20 2014,15:59)

T, I do not want to get ahead of your understanding but perhaps you can see by this verse. John 17:14 New International Version (NIV) 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. Jesus is stating his disciples are not of earth.  So since they are not of this earth where are they from?

“Not OF this world” doesn't mean “Not FROM this world”, Kerwin.

Nor does “this world” mean the physical location of “earth” in that statement. It refers to the current system of things, ie: Satan's system.

So, without arguing the latter point back and forth, suffice to say that Jesus WASN'T saying his disciples weren't FROM the earth – for they definitely were from the earth.

I'm still waiting for you to tell us what POINT you're trying to make with this stuff.  I suspect it has to do with Jesus' statements in John 6.  And if it does, we can drop this point altogether, since there is SO MUCH MORE Jesus adds to the “from heaven” in John 6 to make your “comparison” null and void.

In other words, you cannot sweep John 6:38 under the rug by claiming that John the Baptist was also “from heaven” – because not only did Jesus say, “I came DOWN FROM heaven”, but he also foretold that some of those present would see him ascend to WHERE HE WAS BEFORE.  And where did they see him ascend to, Kerwin?

So you are trying to compare apples to oranges – and it simply will not work.

Keep in mind that the Greek word often translated as “from” John 1:6 also has a meaning of “BY”.  So that statement could easily and accurately be translated as, “There was a man sent BY God whose name was John”.

And finally, even if one were to INSIST upon the word “from” in that verse, being “sent from GOD” doesn't come close to, “I came down from heaven“.

If this is the point you are trying to make, I only wonder where you were when Gene, Adam, Nick, and I were going through John 6 – word by word – in the other thread.

The things I showed them in that thread caused Nick to leave the site again, and caused Gene and Adam to close their mouths, because there was nothing more they could even say.

But if you'd like the crash course on John 6, let me know.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ June 21 2014,13:44)

T, The prophets received their orders from out of this world therefore they were sent from out of this world.

That's just silly talk, bordering on insane.

Abraham's instructions came from God, but Abraham was never “sent from heaven”.

Perhaps you could find an OT scripture where one of God's many prophets WERE said to be “sent FROM heaven”?

[mikeboll64]

Here is one example of something being sent FROM heaven:

1 Peter 1:12
It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven.

Is there any doubt that the Holy Spirit was LITERALLY “sent FROM heaven”?  No.

So why would there be any doubt that Jesus LITERALLY “came down from heaven” – like he clearly said he did?

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ June 22 2014,04:58)

Quote (kerwin @ June 22 2014,01:44) T, The prophets received their orders from out of this world therefore they were sent from out of this world.  Sent means ordered and from is telling the hearer what follows is the source of those orders.  That is why is written that John was sent from God.  God was above when he gave John those orders so the source is also above and so John was sent from above means the same thing. K this world as two option but all still is as it was when Adam sinned the division of the two world are only in their views like one is of God's will, the other is of men's will ; God does not give orders unless he is ready to destroy your wickedness ; Quote The prophets received their orders from out of this world therefore they were sent from out of this world. how could the words of God be out of his own creation

T,

God existed before his creation but I did not claim they were out of creation but only out of this world. I used those words to show his orders are not of this just as Jesus and his disciples are not of this world. John received his baptism from out of this world because it is not of this world but is instead from God. John was sent from God, where is God but above. When Scripture tells us John was sent from God it means John was ordered by God.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 22 2014,08:09)

Here is one example of something being sent FROM heaven: 1 Peter 1:12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Is there any doubt that the Holy Spirit was LITERALLY “sent FROM heaven”?  No. So why would there be any doubt that Jesus LITERALLY “came down from heaven” – like he clearly said he did?

Mike,

It could either mean physically sent from heave or ordered by heaven. Of the two the second is more important because there are forces of spiritual evil in heavenly places.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ June 21 2014,22:44)

Mike, It could either mean physically sent from heaven or ordered by heaven.

So you keep saying…….. but I've yet to see any scriptural (or even secular) proof of your latter claim.

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