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God, who is spirit, has MANY sons who are also spirit. We usually call them “angels”. God caused His firstborn of those spirit sons to be made in the likeness of a human being, and born as flesh from the womb of a human woman.
This is what the scriptures clearly teach. I await your answers to t8’s last post, sonofGod.
hi Mike
<This is what the scriptures clearly teach. It is not for us to explain the “whys” and “hows” of it all to you.>
I agree to this,
Mike,b.
All those wonderfull translations are in contradiction to John 1.
Therefore have no value. John never mentioned the Word was created.
He said: the Word was;or in the beginning was the Word.
Plus, they/you could not mention His name as a created creature.
All heavenly creatures carries a name given.There is not one creature nameless.
Even pets have names.They can make their own translations to their own understanding,
and make it look good,and sensible.
But in the end it will be proven wrong by the one’s that know the Word of God in truth.
Them that love truth,and nothing but the truth.
As long as they can not provide a name for that created creature; He does not exist.
He is just their own invention.
We should not be so gullible to swallow what ever they put on our plate.wakeup.
Wakeup,
1.By God’s Word were all things created.Y/N?
2.That same Word was made flesh.Y/N?
3.That same Word that created all things dwelleth amongst flesh.Y/N?
4.That same Word is coming again as the Word of God.Y/N?These are yes and no question but often I hear the same words but a different meaning is revealed to me by them than is revealed to you.
1) Yes, All thinks were created by the very word that comes out of the mouth of God and all things include Jesus whom Scripture tells us originated in his mother.
2) Yes, The word was given the characteristics of flesh just like it already had the characteristics of God. Jesus Christ who as for the flesh is the Son of David.
3) Yes, as it became flesh first through Jesus and then in those that believe in his name.
4) Yes, Jesus the human being who has God’s word placed in him and written on his heart and is the way by which believers both receive and live by the Spirit will come again. Because he embodies the word and is the way for others to embody the word he is called by the name of the word just as believers are called by the name of God.True Christians are not all the Word of God;but given the the flesh of the Word to eat.
They have received what they have eaten, and walked in that spirit; which is the spirit of Christ.
The many have eaten the flesh of Babylon ,and walked in the spirit of Babylon.To be true Christian you must end up walking by the Spirit and it is the Spirit that is the word in you and that writes the word on your heart by teaching you to do all that is right. A false Christian walks by a false Spirit, sometimes one that pretends to be the real Spirit.
Wakeup,
Reincarnation and incarnation are two different things. A person can be the incarnation of Love, Hate, Peace, Destruction,etc.
If God were to change red so it could be picked up as a rock is it still a color or has it become something else. In the same way of the word were given a form as an angel or human has a form then it would no longer be the word. The created both heaven and earth but not by becoming it. Instead it created it from nothing. On the other when the word incarnates in a being it remains the word.
Kerwin.
How do you understand john’s statement when He said;
In the beginning was the Word?4) Yes, Jesus the human being who has God’s word placed in him and written on his heart and is the way by which believers both receive and live by the Spirit will come again. Because he embodies the word and is the way for others to embody the word he is called by the name of the word just as believers are called by the name of God.
Jesus **IS** The Word made flesh.He was in spirit form before the world was.
He had glory with God.All are getting confused because they tend to mix the before and the after creation;and birth.
There is a before creation and an after creation,and the birth of the flesh.Can you explain to me in your view how Jesus was rich and became poor?
2 Corinthians 8:9
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.Can you explain how he existed in the form of God, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men?
Why is it that some read these verses and change them from their most obvious reading?
Can you explain to me who was the first to be with God if it was not Yeshua before he came in the flesh?
And do you acknowledge that whoever the firstborn of all creation is, he would be very special and technically speaking the most special of all besides God himself?
The context of II Cor 8:9 is the answer.
What is the context of II Cor 8:9?
What is it talking about?
Is it talking about “preexistence”?
Is it talking about some spirit being becoming flesh?
Why don’t you read it?
It is about giving. God, by inspiring Paul, was reproving the Corinthians for being slack in carrying out their commitment to give to the furthering of the gospel.
He talks of the Macedonian response to being saved and taught scriptures abundantly and accurately by the apostle Paul.
The Macedonians, even though in heavy mental pressure gave richly to advance the gospel.
They “made themselves poor” ie, they tithed and more to help Paul fulfill his ministry to the Gentiles
Jesus Christ, because of his giving of himself, sets the perfect example of giving of one self.
When the magi showed up at the house in Bethlehem, they present gold and frankincense and myrrh, gifts fit for a king.
Joseph and Mary were thus able to make the trip to Egypt without money worries.
Did they splurge it?
Or do you think they were good stewards of the gifts given to Jesus as king?
Do you think that Jesus has something material to give?
It is amazing that when you consider all the false accusations against Jesus Christ recorded in the gospels, he is never accused of not tithing.
Jesus Christ gave of himself to make us rich spiritually.
He gave his life for us so that we could choose eternal life. and live accordingly
Can you explain how he existed in the form of God, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men?
No, can you explain electricity?
Can you explain how God who is spirit, the Holy Spirit, impregnated the egg in Mary’s womb so that Jesus was conceived?
Can you explain how the apostles spoke in tongues?
Can you explain how God created the heavens and the earth?
Can you explain how Jesus fed the five thousand and the four thousand?
Can you explain how Jesus could say, “I can do nothing of myself”?
Can you explain how you are doing the greater works than Jesus did of John 14:12, if you even are doing the same works?
Can you explain how miracles work?
Why is it that some read these verses and change them from their most obvious reading?
Why do you believe that Jesus “preexisted” his birth?
Can you find “trinity” in the scripture?
Can you find “preexistence” in scripture?
Can you define “preexistence”?
“Jesus existed before he existed”?
Really?
That is double talk, the same kind of double talk that trinitarians use to “substantiate” their errors.
Can you explain to me who was the first to be with God if it was not Yeshua before he came in the flesh?
Who does scripture say was the first to be with God?
Scripture, scripture, only scripture.
Not some semi trinitarian mumbo jumbo
And do you acknowledge that whoever the firstborn of all creation is, he would be very special and technically speaking the most special of all besides God himself?
What no scripture?
What is your scripture to base your opinion on?
Who are you to say that?
What do you know about God’s wisdom in how and whom and why He created in what order He created?
You are learning, but there is more to learn
I am becoming even more confused. In my understanding, there was ONLY God in the beginning. There existed NO OTHER living, sentient entity except for God Himself. Then came the day that God created “Wisdom/The Word/Jesus” as the first of His creative works. So we went from one living, sentient entity to TWO living, sentient entities.
There was a time when there was only ONE, and then later, there came a time when there was TWO.
I can’t tell if you understand these things the same way, as it seems you are saying God “begot” the Word, but also that the Word was already existing within God when He begot him. So here is a simple question, to get to the bottom of it:
Has the Word of God always existed as a sentient being? Or did God cause a sentient being to come into existence at some point in the past?
I actually think we are on the same page, so I am surprised that this is confusing for you.
You say in the beginning there was only God. Well I like to put it this way. In the beginning was the Word. But this begs the question, what was before the beginning, because God has no beginning. So yes as you say, there was a time (if I can even use that word) when there was only God. At some point, God begat another to be with him and this Word came from God’s own attributes and character. This second to God is called the Word, Wisdom, Light, Truth, Life, and the only begotten. He is the son, the one seated with God, and the one at his right hand side.
The thing to remember is that these attributes did not diminish in God when he begat the first. God still has within himself truth, wisdom, and life as it is written:
For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
Yes we are getting very close.
Heaven net is the only place where the Word of God is discussed to the very depth.There was **A TIME BEFORE THE BEGINNING**: God was all by Himself. His Word is in Him,and wisdom, and love, and etc.
God Possesses all those things.God had not yet decided to speak.There was no universe.
This is when John said: And the Word was God.There was none else outside God.Then was **THE BEGINNING OF CREATION**: God brought forth His own Word and gave Him a form.
He brought forth HIS OWN IMAGE. God did not give Him a name,because he is His own Word.(like our word have no name).
He is not God; but God’s Word with a FORM. Before He had no form,and then He had a form.
It is the same Word but now with a form.
The Word always obeyed the owner,which is God. God now *always* speaks through Him.(even in the garden).
All things were created through Him by the will of God himself.
This is when John said: And the Word was with God.Then the Word was sent to earth,and was made flesh:named Jesus.(only now was He given a name).
That name is only for the flesh; because He will come again by his new name; and he will be called
THE WORD OF GOD,LORD OF LORDS KING OF KINGS.(THIS IS HIS NEW NAME).
God is changing hearts of men through jesus, and will set up His kingdom on earth through *the Word of God*;(HIS NEW NAME)for a thousand years.
Then *the Word of God* will gave his work back to God. Then God will speak to His children face to face,eye to eye.person to person.(direct).wakeup.
wakeup says
<Yes we are getting very close.
Heaven net is the only place where the Word of God is discussed to the very depth.There was **A TIME BEFORE THE BEGINNING**: God was all by Himself. His Word is in Him,and wisdom, and love, and etc.
God Possesses all those things.God had not yet decided to speak.There was no universe.
This is when John said: And the Word was God.There was none else outside God.Then was **THE BEGINNING OF CREATION**: God brought forth His own Word and gave Him a form.
He brought forth HIS OWN IMAGE. God did not give Him a name,because he is His own Word.(like our word have no name).
He is not God; but God’s Word with a FORM. Before He had no form,and then He had a form.
It is the same Word but now with a form.
The Word always obeyed the owner,which is God. God now *always* speaks through Him.(even in the garden).
All things were created through Him by the will of God himself.
This is when John said: And the Word was with God.Then the Word was sent to earth,and was made flesh:named Jesus.(only now was He given a name).
That name is only for the flesh; because He will come again by his new name; and he will be called
THE WORD OF GOD,LORD OF LORDS KING OF KINGS.(THIS IS HIS NEW NAME).
God is changing hearts of men through jesus, and will set up His kingdom on earth through *the Word of God*;(HIS NEW NAME)for a thousand years.
Then *the Word of God* will gave his work back to God. Then God will speak to His children face to face,eye to eye.person to person.(direct).wakeup.>
if what you says is the truth ,could you bring the scriptures that support your view ,so that it becomes the scriptures truth?
1) why would “the word” not be a name ?
2) why would God bring HIS own “word” ?
3) why,The Word always obeyed the owner ?
4) THE WORD OF GOD,LORD OF LORDS KING OF KINGS.(THIS IS HIS NEW NAME).?
5) were is this written;*the Word of God* will gave his work back to God “?
6) were is this written? “Then the Word was sent to earth,and was made flesh:named Jesus.(only now was He given a name).”
7) ” And the Word was God.There was none else outside God.” why would it be the end when God says that in the beginning THE WORD WAS WITH HIM ?YOUR VIEW is conflicting and confusing , so please elaborate with scriptures
Wakeup wrote:Plus, they/you could not mention His name as a created creature.
All heavenly creatures carries a name given. There is not one creature nameless.
As long as they can not provide a name for that created creature; He does not exist.So then the four creatures in Revelation 4:6 don’t really exist, because they are not “named”? Come on, Wakeup. There are many unnamed angels throughout the scriptures. Do you believe none of them truly exist, just because there are no names mentioned?
t8 wrote:So yes as you say, there was a time (if I can even use that word) when there was only God. At some point, God begat another to be with him….
Agreed. There existed one sentient being, and then God caused there to be a second sentient being. Whether you prefer the word “begot” or “created”, the meaning is the same. Anytime a new sentient person comes into being, a “creation” has occurred. For example, when I “begot” my son, a new CREATION came into existence.
This is why Jesus is the firstborn of every CREATURE, and the beginning of the CREATION by God. (Notice that in Col 1:15, the word “firstborn” doesn’t negate that this firstborn one was still a CREATION, and therefore the firstborn of every creature.)
As for the point people like to make about God not “diminishing” when He created His firstborn, I’ve always wondered why that point would even need to be stated. I didn’t “diminish” when I passed on some of myself to my son. God didn’t “diminish” when He gave His qualities to the myriads of other spirit sons He created. So why then would people need to make a point of saying God didn’t “diminish” when He passed on His qualities to that firstborn son He created?
Anyway, it seems we are on the same page – for the most part. 🙂
t8 wrote:Can you explain how he existed in the form of God, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men?
sonofGod wrote:No, can you explain electricity?
All we needed to hear was the “NO” part, sonofGod.
And since you can’t explain how the “ALREADY HUMAN” Jesus emptied himself and WAS MADE in the likeness of a human being, perhaps you should go back to the drawing board, and rethink some of the things you thought you knew.
kerwin wrote:Yes, as [the Word] became flesh first through Jesus and then in those that believe in his name.
That’s not the teaching, Kerwin. We are not told that the Word “became flesh THROUGH Jesus”. We are told that the Word became the flesh BEING known as “Jesus”.
It was “the Word” who became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of God’s only begotten Son. And we know that Jesus is the only flesh being who ever did such a thing, right?
Therefore, the Word didn’t become flesh “through” Jesus, as you’ve mistakenly written by adding your own words into the teaching. Instead, the Word actually BECAME the flesh man Jesus Christ.
Also, there is no other instance in the Bible of the Word “becoming flesh”. It is not said that the Word “became flesh through others”, a thought you also mistakenly add to the scriptural teaching.
I assume that if you stop adding your own words and thoughts into the scriptural words, you’ll soon come to the truth of the matter.
SonofGod.
Can you explain this simple scripture?
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self
***with the glory which I had with thee before the world was***.wakeup.
Mike B.
God simply calls them the four beasts they also are created,maybe the first.
As far as I know they are of the chariot of God. Gods throne.
Not much info about them.
I know some have a name for their car.wakeup.
Mike B.
Paul also said that Jesus is the first born of the dead.
He was the first resurrected from the dead.
Creatures in heaven are not born,they need a mother to give birth.
Angels are created;not born.
The dead will be born out of the Daughter of Zion.The bride of Christ.
John never mentioned the Word BORN. He used the WORD WAS.wakeup.
As for the point people like to make about God not “diminishing” when He created His firstborn, I’ve always wondered why that point would even need to be stated.
I guess people could say that if the word was in God and then was begotten, then God divided himself up and this could open the door to many weird doctrines. It is important to note that God is not lesser for doing this. He is still God and not any less God than he was before doing his first work. Otherwise people could then start up a Binity God by saying that God became less by creating another who can only be called God because the Word came from God must therefore be God#2.
Making it clear that God brings forth beings from his own attributes and that they are not God themselves because God still retains that in which he generously shares with others.
Agreed. There existed one sentient being, and then God caused there to be a second sentient being. Whether you prefer the word “begot” or “created”, the meaning is the same. Anytime a new sentient person comes into being, a “creation” has occurred. For example, when I “begot” my son, a new CREATION came into existence.
We are created beings, and later we are born from above. First the physical body then the spiritual.
To me that is one difference between created and begotten. One is made through the Word, the other comes directly from God.
Yes we are begotten of our parents, and created by God, but see the subtle difference there? Created because we came through something/someone. Begotten as a direct derivative of our parents, but not begotten from God at that point.
The Word came directly from God and not through anyone else. He was begotten in the beginning. Later he partook of flesh and the creation. So that he shared our experience so we could be begotten of God like him.
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