What does it mean that Jesus came in the flesh?

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 27 2013,10:25)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 26 2013,12:29) Hebrews 1:7   And of the angels he saith, **Who maketh his angels spirits**, and his ministers a flame of fire. Contradicting the scriptures for own gain, seems to be a normal thing to do. I know for sure that there is no dust in heaven. Nor glorified dust. For the earth itself is poluted and shall melt. So will be all the dust of the earth. You have chosen to be dust,but dont drag Jesus and His angels with you,for they are spirit. wakeup. Amen.  Too many here contradict scriptures for their own gain.

Mike B.

This seems to be the norm amongst all christians.
They love doctrine more than the truth.
Therefore;the truth will look so different to what they
have swallowed up during the years.
It's hard to vomit it all out.(the land is desolate).
Doctrine will not set anyone free,
but the truth will.

Greetings to you.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 27 2013,10:01)

Wakeup, Quote JESUS IS THE SECOND ADAM CREATED OF SPIRIT. In that statement adam symbolizes the first human of a specific creation.  It is the Spirit that is life giving, the Spirit that Jesus is the first to be created of.  It gives life to Jesus' body and in doing so declares him to be the Son of God with power.

Kerwin.

Adam was the first man created of dust.
All men are also created of dust.
This is the first creation.(flesh)

Jesus was resurrected,and made spirit.
All man in him will also be made of spirit.
This *will be* the second creation.(spirit).

This is God's plan.
First the natural;then the supernatural.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 27 2013,05:25)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 26 2013,12:29) Hebrews 1:7   And of the angels he saith, **Who maketh his angels spirits**, and his ministers a flame of fire. Contradicting the scriptures for own gain, seems to be a normal thing to do. I know for sure that there is no dust in heaven. Nor glorified dust. For the earth itself is poluted and shall melt. So will be all the dust of the earth. You have chosen to be dust,but dont drag Jesus and His angels with you,for they are spirit. wakeup. Amen.  Too many here contradict scriptures for their own gain.

Agreed Mike ,they are to attached to this world,

[kerwin]

Wakeup,

Quote

Jesus was resurrected,and made spirit. All man in him will also be made of spirit. This *will be* the second creation.(spirit).

That is not what is written in Scripture.  What is written is:

Romans 1:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

4 and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

It is the Spirit that declared him to be the Son of God and it did that by resurrecting him from the dead.   In this way it gives eternal life to the dead.

[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 27 2013,16:15)

Wakeup, Quote Jesus was resurrected,and made spirit. All man in him will also be made of spirit. This *will be* the second creation.(spirit). That is not what is written in Scripture.  What is written is: Romans 1:4 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: It is the Spirit that declared him to be the Son of God and it did that by resurrecting him from the dead.   In this way it gives eternal life to the dead.

Kerwin.

Jesus came to preach the gospel with power
of bringing the dead to life and with healings
and casting out demons,and also walked on water.

After His resurrection He was given all authority,
to be equal with God.
All angels are to worship Him.
And all mankind is to worship Him;
all things must go through Him.
God himself named Him God.

Yet there is but one God,and none else.
This is the mystery that no man knows,
but only he, whom the Son will reveal him.

wakeup.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 27 2013,05:03)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 26 2013,01:32) Mike, The bottom line is these same net scholars translated spirit to ghost, and ghosts neither eat or can be touched. So then the “bottom line” is that the angel of God who came to Manoah WAS a spirit being, because he REFUSED to eat, and no one touched him? Is that a fair claim on my part?

Mike,

The evidence is inconclusive so then the “bottom line” is that the angel of God who came to Manoah might be a spirit being, because he REFUSED to eat, and no one touched him is a fair claim?  

More conclusive evidence would be calling him a ghost or even a more generic term, with supporting evidence.  The passage in Job you quoted previously sounded like a non-corporeal being.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 27 2013,05:05)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 26 2013,10:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2013,07:50) Oh, and you also never answered this question from before: Kerwin, do you believe Satan's angels are spirit beings, but God's angels consist of flesh?  YES or NO? Mike, Yes, I believe that Satan and Michael are over hosts of corporeal creatures.  Yes, Satan seems to also have non corporeal creatures working with him and it also seems reasonable Michael would as well. And do these “non-corporeal” angels have bodies consisting of “spirit flesh”?

Mike,

Non-corporeal means they have no bodies. They are living creatures who are equivalent to ghosts. I think wakeup believes that all angels are such and that they can miraculously form a body in which to dwell.

[kerwin]

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 27 2013,01:42)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 27 2013,06:35) Wakeup, Quote **Who maketh his angels spirits**, and his ministers a flame of fire. Who makes his messengers wind and his ministers flames of fire.  Both the messengers and ministers are angels.  So are some winds and some flames?  Or do some move like the wind and others serve with fire of zeal?  You cannot pick half of an equation to come to the truth of the whole equation.   If you read on in the chapter then you will find it is comparing what God did for his angelic messengers and ministers to what he did for Jesus and not of what he created either his angelic hosts or Jesus of. Kerwin. Angels are *ministering* spirits.               **AND HIS** (God's)  ministers are preaching with fire,for they stirrup the hearts. wakeup.

Wakeup,

All angels are ministering spirits as the spirit they live by is one of ministering.  The messengers minister in one way and so serve the body  as prophets also minister to the body with their own messages,  others minister to the body in other ways whether they are humans or angels.

You are arguing that God literally makes his messengers (angel beings) non-corporeal beings (spirits), and figuratively makes his human ministers flames of fire.   That is a shift in the way of speaking within the very same sentence.  A questionable happening.  

In addition Paul was talking about angels in Hebrews and not humans and unlike us he had no problem quoting only the part of the verse that applied.  

Last it comes from Psalms 104 which seems to be speaking of the creation of angels after God gathered the light he created to him like a garment but before the foundations of earth were set.  Humans were made beasts and created in the image and likeness of God after all that.

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote

That is until said angel went up in flames, right?

Nice play on words though if I saw someone toss themselves into a fire and burst into flames I would not think they were an angel.

This was more of a repeat of the burning bush when the angel ascended to heaven in the flames of the sacrifice.  

What they might have saw is what looked like a man with angel features immersed in flames and both the man and the flames ascended to heaven.

Another similar event was the forth figure in the furnace with Shadrach Meshach and Abednego.

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote

We must be born again of something OTHER THAN flesh to see and enter into the kingdom of God, because flesh can neither see nor enter that place.

We must conceived and born the new man and that is a change of spirit and not flesh.

Quote

Flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God, so we will be resurrected – not in the flesh body we got from the first Adam – but in a spiritual body like those of heaven already have.  Those entering heaven will have their bodies transformed into glorious new bodies like the one Jesus now has.

Your only real sticking point because you choose to disregard evidence that Jews, like Paul, used “flesh and blood” as an idiom to mean mortal.  You have seen both English versions of Scripture and expert testimony to that fact.  You have also seen in arguments base on Scripture there are three creations that occurred in the beginning; the physical, the soulish(natural), and the spiritual.  Scripture teaches that the animal soul is in the blood.  You have read the definition of soulish and know it is “animal, natural, sensuous”.  This is the same soulish that is replaced with natural by the AKJV translators in 1 Corinthians 15:44 and elsewhere that is linked to the blood because the animal soul is said to be in the blood.  

You choose to ignore that it is not even talking about the present heaven but it is talking about the whole reign of God when the new heaven and the new earth come to be.  That is what will be inherited not these perishable realms that currently exist.

[terraricca]

k

Quote

We must conceived and born the new man and that is a change of spirit and not flesh.

Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

by doing what Christ says in the 24 you are born again ,but this has to be true until the end of your earthly life.

[kerwin]

Wakeup,

Jesus is never given the power to be equal to God as he is always subject to God but he has been given authority over everything in heaven and earth, even to choosing those to whom the God's Spirit is given.

It is God's Spirit that gives life to those that are dead spiritually and to those dead bodily. Jesus is the only way to obtain that Spirit. It can only be obtained by obeying all of the message he taught.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2013,00:46)

k Quote We must conceived and born the new man and that is a change of spirit and not flesh. Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.” by doing what Christ says in the 24 you are born again ,but this has to be true until the end of your earthly life.

T,

And beyond but yes.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,02:38)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2013,00:46) k Quote We must conceived and born the new man and that is a change of spirit and not flesh. Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.” by doing what Christ says in the 24 you are born again ,but this has to be true until the end of your earthly life. T, And beyond but yes.

[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,07:29)

Wakeup, Jesus is never given the power to be equal to God as he is always subject to God but he has been given authority over everything in heaven and earth, even to choosing those to whom the God's Spirit is given. It is God's Spirit that gives life to those that are dead spiritually and to those dead bodily.  Jesus is the only way to obtain that Spirit.  It can only be obtained by obeying all of the message he taught.

Kerwin.

Quote

**Jesus is never given the power to be equal to God** as he is always subject to God but he has been given authority over everything in heaven and earth, even to choosing those to whom the God's Spirit is given.

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery ***to be equal with God***:

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 27 2013,16:15)

Wakeup, Quote Jesus was resurrected,and made spirit. All man in him will also be made of spirit. This *will be* the second creation.(spirit). That is not what is written in Scripture.  What is written is: Romans 1:4 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: It is the Spirit that declared him to be the Son of God and it did that by resurrecting him from the dead.   In this way it gives eternal life to the dead.

Kerwin.

Quote

4 and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: It is the Spirit that declared him to be the Son of God ***and it did that by resurrecting him*** from the dead. In this way it gives eternal life to the dead

Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

wakeup.

Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

[kerwin]

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 28 2013,07:01)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 27 2013,16:15) Wakeup, Quote Jesus was resurrected,and made spirit. All man in him will also be made of spirit. This *will be* the second creation.(spirit). That is not what is written in Scripture.  What is written is: Romans 1:4 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: It is the Spirit that declared him to be the Son of God and it did that by resurrecting him from the dead.   In this way it gives eternal life to the dead. Kerwin. Quote 4 and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: It is the Spirit that declared him to be the Son of God         ***and it did that by resurrecting him*** from the dead.   In this way it gives eternal life to the dead Luke 3:22   And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. wakeup. Luke 3:22   And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. Luke 3:22   And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Wakeup,

The two passages speak of two different instances when Jesus was declared to be the Son of God in two different ways.  I am not sure son should have been capitalized in Romans 1 as the undergoing the final resurrection before the Day of Judgement is a testimony that the person who undergoes it is a son of God.  Other evidence that is not mentioned in Romans 1:3-4 is what declares him to be the Son of God and the Son of David.

We are told that in the past Jesus in was declared to be the son of God by the resurrection of the dead and that it was the Spirit that determined this just as it was the flesh that determines he is the son of David.

The past tense of declared is what tells us it is speaking of a resurrection that happened in the past.

[kerwin]

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 28 2013,06:23)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,07:29) Wakeup, Jesus is never given the power to be equal to God as he is always subject to God but he has been given authority over everything in heaven and earth, even to choosing those to whom the God's Spirit is given. It is God's Spirit that gives life to those that are dead spiritually and to those dead bodily.  Jesus is the only way to obtain that Spirit.  It can only be obtained by obeying all of the message he taught. Kerwin. Quote **Jesus is never given the power to be equal to God** as he is always subject to God but he has been given authority over everything in heaven and earth, even to choosing those to whom the God's Spirit is given. Philippians 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery ***to be equal with God***: wakeup.

Wakeup,

Let us hypothesize that:

Philippians 2:6
American Standard Version (ASV)

6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,

means

Philippians 2:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

in which case robbery is defines as something to be grasped in the AKJV.

To test it we go to the definitions of the word in the origional language and find that the Koine Greek transliterated word is “harpagmos” and means “an object of eager desire”. The definition we have found seems to be an archaic definition of robbery.

[Wakeup]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,15:47)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 28 2013,06:23) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,07:29) Wakeup, Jesus is never given the power to be equal to God as he is always subject to God but he has been given authority over everything in heaven and earth, even to choosing those to whom the God's Spirit is given. It is God's Spirit that gives life to those that are dead spiritually and to those dead bodily.  Jesus is the only way to obtain that Spirit.  It can only be obtained by obeying all of the message he taught. Kerwin. Quote **Jesus is never given the power to be equal to God** as he is always subject to God but he has been given authority over everything in heaven and earth, even to choosing those to whom the God's Spirit is given. Philippians 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery ***to be equal with God***: wakeup. Wakeup, Let us hypothesize that: Philippians 2:6 American Standard Version (ASV) 6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, means Philippians 2:6 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: in which case robbery is defines as something to be grasped in the AKJV. To test it we go to the definitions of the word in the origional language and find that the Koine Greek transliterated word is “harpagmos” and means “an object of eager desire”. The definition we have found seems to be an archaic definition of robbery.

Kerwin.

You seem to be visiting the library to interpret the
scriptures to your own satisfaction.

Safe the trouble; buy your own library.

wakeup.

[kerwin]

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 28 2013,12:15)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,15:47) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 28 2013,06:23) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,07:29) Wakeup, Jesus is never given the power to be equal to God as he is always subject to God but he has been given authority over everything in heaven and earth, even to choosing those to whom the God's Spirit is given. It is God's Spirit that gives life to those that are dead spiritually and to those dead bodily.  Jesus is the only way to obtain that Spirit.  It can only be obtained by obeying all of the message he taught. Kerwin. Quote **Jesus is never given the power to be equal to God** as he is always subject to God but he has been given authority over everything in heaven and earth, even to choosing those to whom the God's Spirit is given. Philippians 2:6   Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery ***to be equal with God***: wakeup. Wakeup, Let us hypothesize that: Philippians 2:6 American Standard Version (ASV) 6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, means Philippians 2:6 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: in which case robbery is defines as something to be grasped in the AKJV. To test it we go to the definitions of the word in the origional language and find that the Koine Greek transliterated word is “harpagmos” and means “an object of eager desire”. The definition we have found seems to be an archaic definition of robbery. Kerwin. You seem to be visiting the library to interpret the scriptures to your own satisfaction. Safe the trouble; buy your own library. wakeup.

Wakeup,

I simply did a walk-through to determine what the obviously archaic words of the AKJV mean using the assumption that it was a paraphrase of the same passage of the American Standard Version and then used the original language to test if my hypothesis was true.  There is still a possibility the Textus Receptus is different but I do not have access to it in the same way as the more modern Koine Greek version.

Languages change and what a word meant a few centuries ago may longer be what it means today.  Putting a meaning of this age to a word of another age can lead to misinformation.  Be careful.

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