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Quote (Wakeup @ May 13 2014,13:57) Quote (kerwin @ May 13 2014,13:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 12 2014,00:42) Quote (kerwin @ May 10 2014,13:06) I am not sure what your reasoning is but Moses never asked to see God's facial features so why would God come out of the blue and say “No man may see my face and live”?
Kerwin,There are many explanations, which I don't have the patience to go through with you. I will share just one possibility:
Moses asked to see God's glory. God pointed out to Moses that He would indeed allow Moses to see the amount of His glory that a human eye is capable of beholding.
And, just as an explanation to Moses, God was saying, “I will indeed let you see as much of me as you can see without dying. But no human being can literally see me, as I am, without dying.”
In other words: “You can't see my face” = “You can't see me as I am, but I will show you some stuff that no other human being has ever seen……. but only as much stuff as your eyes can handle.”
Kerwin, show me the scripture that says God doesn't have a form.
Mike,You already stated the Israelites did not see his similitude. There are also passages that state he is invisible.
I asking you to show a passage that proves it without contradicting the actual words of John 1:18 or any other passage of Scripture.
It is a teaching either based on the idea human beings can see God's appearances or the idea that the same words when applied to a human being mean something different when applied to an angel.
Kerwin.Moses did see God visiting mount sinai in the form of a cloud and lightnings.
wakeup.
Wakeup,This is the passage I am speaking to Mike about.
Deuteronomy 4:12
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)12 And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
I am not sure what passage you have mentioned but I do remember something similar to it at the end of the book of Job.
Wakeup………….As i have said you have bought into the BIG LIE (2 Th 2) and have been deluded by the provocateurs of it, they are Satan's ministers who control his synagogues. Go back and reread (2 Th 2) and this time understand Jesus is the one that is being made out to be a God, who sits in the temple of God, being displayed as a GOD, like and all trinitarians and preexistence's do. That is the big it gives off a false image of Jesus as being a God, it is this very LIE that, Jesus himself will abolish at his return by the breath of his own mouth.
To him that has ears to hear let him hear.
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Hi GB,
You may be right but
Mt24
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
has the flight happened yet?
Hi GB,
The supplanting of our God with a false Jesus happened just after the time of the apostles.
Theologians warped the truth and fed it to all.Hi WU,
But it was not an event as such that could be seen by all but a white anting of truth and surreptitious replacement of our God with another.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2014,10:19) Hi WU,
But it was not an event as such that could be seen by all but a white anting of truth and surreptitious replacement of our God with another.
Not so Nick.
He will appear at the appointed time and introduce new
laws,and change times.He will rule the world; the secular and spiritual.He will be accepted as God.
He will kill the two witnesses, and the world will rejoice.
This is the sad part,that the world is on his side.wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ May 14 2014,09:02) Quote (Wakeup @ May 13 2014,13:57) Quote (kerwin @ May 13 2014,13:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 12 2014,00:42) Quote (kerwin @ May 10 2014,13:06) I am not sure what your reasoning is but Moses never asked to see God's facial features so why would God come out of the blue and say “No man may see my face and live”?
Kerwin,There are many explanations, which I don't have the patience to go through with you. I will share just one possibility:
Moses asked to see God's glory. God pointed out to Moses that He would indeed allow Moses to see the amount of His glory that a human eye is capable of beholding.
And, just as an explanation to Moses, God was saying, “I will indeed let you see as much of me as you can see without dying. But no human being can literally see me, as I am, without dying.”
In other words: “You can't see my face” = “You can't see me as I am, but I will show you some stuff that no other human being has ever seen……. but only as much stuff as your eyes can handle.”
Kerwin, show me the scripture that says God doesn't have a form.
Mike,You already stated the Israelites did not see his similitude. There are also passages that state he is invisible.
I asking you to show a passage that proves it without contradicting the actual words of John 1:18 or any other passage of Scripture.
It is a teaching either based on the idea human beings can see God's appearances or the idea that the same words when applied to a human being mean something different when applied to an angel.
Kerwin.Moses did see God visiting mount sinai in the form of a cloud and lightnings.
wakeup.
Wakeup,This is the passage I am speaking to Mike about.
Deuteronomy 4:12
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)12 And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
I am not sure what passage you have mentioned but I do remember something similar to it at the end of the book of Job.
Kerwin.Adam and Eve also heard a voice,saying where are you,and why are you hiding.
wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ May 14 2014,13:02) Wakeup, Hearing a voice is not seeing a similitude.
Kerwin.Agree.
wakeup.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2014,11:41) Hi WU,
Yes it makes more sense that way
Thank you Nick.wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2014,20:13) I asking you to show a passage that proves it without contradicting the actual words of John 1:18 or any other passage of Scripture. It is a teaching either based on the idea human beings can see God's appearances or the idea that the same words when applied to a human being mean something different when applied to an angel.
Kerwin,I don't need to “prove” anything to you. When Jesus said angels see the face of God on a regular basis, I have no reason to think angels do NOT see the face of God on a regular basis. When God Himself told Moses that no adam could see His face and live, I have no reason to doubt Him.
The form of God is described in many scriptures, by men who were taken to heaven in visions and dreams. He has a throne on which He sits – right beside Jesus' throne. If Jesus has a form and sits on a throne in a literal manner, there is no reason for me to believe that God, who sits beside Jesus, DOESN'T have a form and DOESN'T sit on a throne in a literal manner.
You say that I'm somehow contradicting John 1:18 – simply because I understand the Greek word “oudeis” (no one) to refer to human beings only in that context. But look at this one:
John 3:13 NASB ©
No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.It is the same Greek word “oudeis” in that verse too, Kerwin. But would you understand that to mean Gabriel is still on earth after visiting Daniel…….. because LITERALLY NO ONE has ascended to heaven?
Or do you understand from the context that “human beings” are meant?
I will assume the latter….. in which case you have no argument for my “human beings only” understanding of the same Greek word in John 1:18.
Quote (Wakeup @ May 13 2014,01:54) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 12 2014,05:57)
It's tough to pinpoint when Satan was (will be?) cast out of heaven.Before the resurrection, Jesus said he SAW Satan fall to the earth like lightning. Was Jesus speaking in a prophetic fashion – talking of things yet to be?
And in Revelation, is there really a time given that the accuser of the brethren was cast out of heaven? This was, after all, a revelation of things “soon to come”.
Perhaps he hasn't yet been cast out. Perhaps that is something that will soon happen.
How can we know for sure?
Mike B.Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
THE CHILD(JESUS) WAS COUGHT UP TO HEAVEN.
HE WAS RESURRECTED. THEN COMES THE WAR WITH SATAN. JESUS WAS CLEANING OUT HEAVEN.Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
IT IS HERE WHEN SATAN AND HIS ANGELS CAN NOT ENTER HEAVEN ANYMORE.
Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
NO MORE PLACE IN HEAVEN FOR SATAN AND HIS ANGELS.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
SATAN THE ACCUSER IS CAST DOWN.
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
HEAVEN IS TO REJOICE,BUT NOT FOR THE EARTH,BECAUSE
HE AND HIS ANGELS HAS COME DOWN TO EARTH,
AND IS VERY ANGRY.When jesus saw satan fall like lightning: was a near future prophecy.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,I don't see the answer in your post. I have also read those scriptures. But I don't know when, or if, this has happened.
Give me a date that you think Satan was banned from heaven. Before Jesus came to earth? In 300 AD? 1914?
When do you think this war with Michael, and the subsequent banning took place?
Quote (Wakeup @ May 13 2014,01:54) When jesus saw satan fall like lightning: was a near future prophecy.
I agree with that part, because Satan wasn't cast out until AFTER the Lamb took the scroll from God. And that didn't happen until the Lamb had already been slain.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2014,14:24) Hi WU,
God does not have a body of dust.
We are alike to God by His design.But God bears little resemblance to us
I don't know, Nick. God is described with a man-like form in many scriptures. Hands, legs, face, eyes, sits on a throne like a man would, etc………Not to mention that angels apparently also look a lot like men – even when they are in heaven. And God created the angels in His image before He created mankind in that image. It was most likely to the angels that God said, “Let us make man in our image, and our likeness…….”
This is because the angels already shared that image before God made man in that image. At least this is how I understand it based on the word of God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2014,09:54) Hi GB,
You may be right but
Mt24
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
has the flight happened yet?
Nick…….Yes it happened in 70 AD, when Roman's invaded Jerusalem and desecrated the temple, and the daily sacrifice ceased, and brought utter destruction to the Jews and sent them scattering throughout the world , they sought after the rest of the house of Israel (10 tribes) who were already in Europe, carried there by the ancient Assyrians (Germans) The Anglo Saxons (sons of Issac) left Saxony Germany and became know as Anglo Saxons , these were Israelite's , the Jew knew where Israel was scattered, and went after them in Europe, that is how they wound up in Germany and other part of Europe.God sent a sword after the Jew's as he said he would, and they were prosecuted in every country the went , The Jew have suffered great persecution and even now they do. But a time will come when they the Kingdom of Judah, will be unites with the Kingdom of Israel and they shall be ONE STICK in the Hand of God again.
peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2014,10:17) Hi GB,
The supplanting of our God with a false Jesus happened just after the time of the apostles.
Theologians warped the truth and fed it to all.
Nick………..Yes it “STARTED” with the false teaching of the Gnostic's. Paul and John fought fearlessly those false teachers of Jesus being a God, and not born of flesh and blood, and was a God disguised in a human body, who preexisted his berth, but as Paul's said this “INIQUITY” was present all ready, but was suppressed until that which suppressed it was taken out of the way. It was the Apostles and true Christians who were suppressing this false teaching of Jesus being a Preexisting God of some kind, Until the council of Nacia where the Pagan Emperor Constantine declared the “TRINITY” (God the Father, God the Son, and GOD the holy Spirit) , as the “TRUE” Doctrine of the “Christian Church, and Made all the pagans accept Christianity as the National RELIGION of the ROMAN EMPIRE.IN truth these false teaching are from the very synagogues of Satan himself,
Jesus is not now or ever was a God , He did not Preexist his berth on this earth. All who teach different then this are simply False teachers, deceived by false Christianity. This represent nearly all Christendom today. Very few see through the Great deception, fostered on all Christianity by the Roman Empire, through the working of Satan himself.
He that has and ear let him hear.
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Quote (Wakeup @ May 14 2014,11:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2014,10:19) Hi WU,
But it was not an event as such that could be seen by all but a white anting of truth and surreptitious replacement of our God with another.
Not so Nick.
He will appear at the appointed time and introduce new
laws,and change times.He will rule the world; the secular and spiritual.He will be accepted as God.
He will kill the two witnesses, and the world will rejoice.
This is the sad part,that the world is on his side.wakeup.
Wakeup…………That takes place after the Thousand year rule of Jesus and the Saints of God. Your mixing up times of events. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………….gene
To all,
Some here believe Jesus was a spirit when he told his student-adherents:
Luke 24:39
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Of course that accuses him a liar but never the less these individuals blind themselves to that hidden meaning of their words and see him as a spirit who has manifested flesh and bone.
I am curious what meaning they are giving to the word “manifest” as it simply means “revealed”. In other word the flesh and bone were already there but hidden.
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