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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 19 2014,07:35) I never said that the scriptures say God changed Gabriel to a man. I was using an analogy to make a point. Please answer the question. Also, would you answer the question I have numbered 2 in my post?
Quote 1. Are you saying that if the angel Gabriel was changed into a human being, we couldn't sensibly say that he “came in the flesh”? 2. On the other hand, about which human being, who has never been anything other than a human being, would we say, “He came in the flesh”?
In other words, when speaking about your birth, do people say, “He came in the flesh”? Has anyone EVER said those words about ANY human being you have ever known?
Reply to question 1:
“What if the cow jumped over the moon?”
Hypothetical, is truth hypothetical?
Answer to question 2:
Quote Jesus is a man, there fore he came in the flesh. I am a man, I came in the flesh.
God is spirit, he doesn't change Malachi 3:6
God is always spirit
I John 4:1-5 makes sure that God's people do not fall for the trinity lie
God did not change into flesh.
Jesus, being a man, came in the flesh
I Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Just there is no doubt God makes sure that we understand that
God is God
Men are men
the one mediator is the man Christ Jesus.
Not the God Christ Jesus
Not the God-man Christ Jesus
Not the second person of the trinity Christ Jesus
Not the son of a mother of god Christ Jesus
Not one third of a triune god Christ Jesus
The man Christ Jesus
Christ Jesus is THE MAN
But I disagree with this part.
Quote
Not the son of a mother of god Christ JesusScripture says this:
Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Jesus is that child born of Mother Zion.
A GREAT WONDER IN HEAVEN.wakeup.
SOG
Quote Jesus, being a man, came in the flesh I am a man because I am the seed of men ;
Christ Jesus his not man because he is not the seed of man ;but he came down from heaven and took the cover of flesh as a man to fulfill his father God almighty Jehovah who created him the first of all his creation ,and through which he created all things ,
Jesus gain SUPREMACY for he died for us and was resurrected as prove of his godly approval of his father and God
yes Jesus his ;
1) in the form of men
2) the Messiah
3) the only begotten son of God
4) the son of man as per his appearance
5) the chosen king from the father
6) he his also the ” WORD”
7) he his the mediator
8) he his the savior send by God
9) he his a prophet
10) he his a spirit being that came and wentQuote (sonofGod @ Jan. 19 2014,12:50) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 1. Are you saying that if the angel Gabriel was changed into a human being, we couldn't sensibly say that he “came in the flesh”?
Reply to question 1:“What if the cow jumped over the moon?”
Hypothetical, is truth hypothetical?
Your question can indeed be answered, although you left it a little vague, and therefore it could be answered a million different ways.Here, let me help you out a little:
Mike, if the cow jumped over the moon, would we be able to sensibly say that a cow had been to outer space?
Now, let me show you the difference between a direct and honest answer from someone who is having a serious discussion, and a silly answer from someone who just wants to play games.
Serious Answer: I can't think of any valid reason why we COULDN'T say the cow had been to outer space, if he in fact jumped all the way over the moon……. so “YES”.
Silly Answer: Show me from the history books that a cow ever jumped over the moon!
Do you see the difference? Now let's try my question.
If God decided to cause the spirit being Gabriel to be born of a human woman and dwell on earth as a flesh human being for a while, would we be able to sensibly say that Gabriel “came in the flesh”?
Serious Answer: Absolutely! We could say he “came in the flesh”, “was made flesh”, “took on flesh”, “partook in flesh”, and even “was made in the likeness of a human being”. And each one of those answers would have the same underlying meaning: A spirit being was transformed into a flesh being.
Silly Answer: Show me in scripture where Gabriel was caused to become a human being!
See the difference? And here's something that's worth noting: Anyone with half a brain can easily see that the one answering the question with the silly answers is going out of his way to AVOID answering the question for real. So when intelligent people on this site see a “non-answer” like that, we already know that the one who asked the question was right, because the other guy can't even bring himself to give an honest and direct answer. You should keep that in mind in the future.
Now, seeing that I've answered my own question for you with an answer you know is correct, but couldn't bring yourself to post, let's think about that answer for a minute.
If a spirit being was ever to be made into a flesh being, not only would it be possible to sensibly say that being “came in the flesh”, but that phrase would probably be the most sensible way to convey the thought.
On the other hand, if a person was originally born as a flesh being, it would NEVER be said that he “came in the flesh”.
Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 19 2014,12:50) Jesus is a man, there fore he came in the flesh.
Your first answer above is circular, since it relies on you insisting that Jesus was never anything except for flesh, in order to prove that the phrase, “he came in the flesh” could be said about a man who was never anything other than flesh.Circular answers are also considered “silly” and “non-answers” around here – just so you know.
Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 19 2014,12:50) I am a man, I came in the flesh.
Your second answer is an empty and baseless claim………. UNLESS you can show that the phrase, “he came in the flesh” IS an idiom to describe the earthly existence of someone who was born as a human being, and never existed as anything other than a human being.You saying it about yourself doesn't really count for anything. But perhaps you could Google it and find out if the phrase “he came in the flesh” was ever used to describe someone's earthly existence.
If you can find something like that, you may have a point. If you cannot, then you don't.
Nice chat, sonofGod. Hopefully we'll have some more of them as time goes by.
The whole message of the new testament is that the Son of God came in the flesh.
He came in the flesh because he was sent by God, and before he was flesh, he was spirit.
The message is about Jesus, giving the light. Not about angels.
To say an angel came in the flesh, is not quite accurate, because although angels can “manifest” into flesh, they are not flesh, they are still spirit, and cannot be killed by man.
Christ was all flesh, and was killed by man.Mike,
I havn't forgotten about your question in the Matthew thread. I will answer them as soon as I can.
Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 20 2014,05:50) Reply to question 1: “What if the cow jumped over the moon?”
Hypothetical, is truth hypothetical?
Answer to question 2:
Quote Jesus is a man, there fore he came in the flesh. I am a man, I came in the flesh.
God is spirit, he doesn't change Malachi 3:6
God is always spirit
I John 4:1-5 makes sure that God's people do not fall for the trinity lie
God did not change into flesh.
Jesus, being a man, came in the flesh
I Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Just there is no doubt God makes sure that we understand that
God is God
Men are men
the one mediator is the man Christ Jesus.
Not the God Christ Jesus
Not the God-man Christ Jesus
Not the second person of the trinity Christ Jesus
Not the son of a mother of god Christ Jesus
Not one third of a triune god Christ Jesus
The man Christ Jesus
Christ Jesus is THE MAN
sonofgod……….welcome to my world brother. You and I both know Jesus was a 100% pure human being who came into existence at just the right appointed Time in “HUMAN” history, as a “FLESH And BLOOD BORN Human being. To perform Gods purpose He did not preexist his berth on his earth, except in the plan and will of God.But as you have correctly posted, they the make what's hypothetical as THEIR “truth” .
As I have said before you can't catch a snake in a briar patch. The briar patch is their hypothetical reasonings that they preach as “Truth.”
Peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 19 2014,15:15) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 19 2014,18:28) Transferred from the thread about spiritual bodies. Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 19 2014,13:20) Kerwin. You want scriptures?
Put your glasses on.1.God is a spirit; has he got a body?
2. Is he of flesh and bone?
3.Has HE got a spirit body; or flesh and bone?
4.Jesus said: When you are born of the spirit,
*YOU ARE SPIRIT*. like the wind.
Are you the one that dares to disagree?
And change the meaning for own use?3.The second Adam was made a *QUICKENING SPIRIT*.
Are you the person that dares to change the wording?
Like the scribes did with the bible?
Have you been sleeping with the scribes?wakeup.
Wakeup,God is the creator and does not have a body as space did not exist before God created it.
The second Adam as well as the first was Adam. There is an inner Adam and an outer Adam just as Scripture teaches us there is an inner man and an outer man.
Kerwin.You are wrong according the scriptures.
Revelation 22:4 ***And they shall see his face***; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
He has no body, but has a face?
what say you?
wakeup.
Wakeup,The law has not body but it has an arm.
The government has no body but it has a face.
The church has no body but it is said to have a body.
Has the dimensions of space always existed or did God create the dimensions of space. As I said I am convince he created the dimensions of space and before they were created there was nothing that had volume as volume requires space to exist. A body has volume.Kerwin.
You dont read the scripture as what it says,
but as what you think it says.WE SHALL SEE *HIS* FACE.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,12:12) Kerwin. You dont read the scripture as what it says,
but as what you think it says.WE SHALL SEE *HIS* FACE.
wakeup.
Wakeup,I do read scripture but what I hear is not the spirit you hear for I am told that Mosses spoke face to face with God and yet never saw his face.
Exodus 33:11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
Exodus 33:20
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Kerwin.
God had a person to person coversation with Moses
But Moses could not see His face.
Only his back part.
God has a body.
God is a spirit and He can appear in any form He chooses.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,17:58) Kerwin. God had a person to person coversation with Moses
But Moses could not see His face.
Only his back part.
God has a body.
God is a spirit and He can appear in any form He chooses.wakeup.
Wakeup,Then do you believe face means person in Exodus 33:11 but literally means face in Exodus 33:20?
So not to be a trick question consider that Scripture teaches us the law was ordained by angels.
Galatians 3:19
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Since angels decreed the law then then it is clear they were the one God spoke through when he meant Moses face to face and later hid his face from Moses.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2014,12:25) Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 19 2014,12:50) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 1. Are you saying that if the angel Gabriel was changed into a human being, we couldn't sensibly say that he “came in the flesh”?
Reply to question 1:“What if the cow jumped over the moon?”
Hypothetical, is truth hypothetical?
Your question can indeed be answered, although you left it a little vague, and therefore it could be answered a million different ways.Here, let me help you out a little:
Mike, if the cow jumped over the moon, would we be able to sensibly say that a cow had been to outer space?
Now, let me show you the difference between a direct and honest answer from someone who is having a serious discussion, and a silly answer from someone who just wants to play games.
Serious Answer: I can't think of any valid reason why we COULDN'T say the cow had been to outer space, if he in fact jumped all the way over the moon……. so “YES”.
Silly Answer: Show me from the history books that a cow ever jumped over the moon!
Do you see the difference? Now let's try my question.
If God decided to cause the spirit being Gabriel to be born of a human woman and dwell on earth as a flesh human being for a while, would we be able to sensibly say that Gabriel “came in the flesh”?
Serious Answer: Absolutely! We could say he “came in the flesh”, “was made flesh”, “took on flesh”, “partook in flesh”, and even “was made in the likeness of a human being”. And each one of those answers would have the same underlying meaning: A spirit being was transformed into a flesh being.
Silly Answer: Show me in scripture where Gabriel was caused to become a human being!
See the difference? And here's something that's worth noting: Anyone with half a brain can easily see that the one answering the question with the silly answers is going out of his way to AVOID answering the question for real. So when intelligent people on this site see a “non-answer” like that, we already know that the one who asked the question was right, because the other guy can't even bring himself to give an honest and direct answer. You should keep that in mind in the future.
Now, seeing that I've answered my own question for you with an answer you know is correct, but couldn't bring yourself to post, let's think about that answer for a minute.
If a spirit being was ever to be made into a flesh being, not only would it be possible to sensibly say that being “came in the flesh”, but that phrase would probably be the most sensible way to convey the thought.
On the other hand, if a person was originally born as a flesh being, it would NEVER be said that he “came in the flesh”.
Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 19 2014,12:50) Jesus is a man, there fore he came in the flesh.
Your first answer above is circular, since it relies on you insisting that Jesus was never anything except for flesh, in order to prove that the phrase, “he came in the flesh” could be said about a man who was never anything other than flesh.Circular answers are also considered “silly” and “non-answers” around here – just so you know.
Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 19 2014,12:50) I am a man, I came in the flesh.
Your second answer is an empty and baseless claim………. UNLESS you can show that the phrase, “he came in the flesh” IS an idiom to describe the earthly existence of someone who was born as a human being, and never existed as anything other than a human being.You saying it about yourself doesn't really count for anything. But perhaps you could Google it and find out if the phrase “he came in the flesh” was ever used to describe someone's earthly existence.
If you can find something like that, you may have a point. If you cannot, then you don't.
Nice chat, sonofGod. Hopefully we'll have some more of them as time goes by.
Of course we would not say “Mike” or anyone else “Came in the flesh” in everyday conversation, but then again, did anyone ever say that “Mike was Spirit only and not Flesh”? Because that is what they said of Jesus (Gnostics 101) and Jesus was the King, you are not.
Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 20 2014,05:50) Reply to question 1: “What if the cow jumped over the moon?”
Hypothetical, is truth hypothetical?
Answer to question 2:
Quote Jesus is a man, there fore he came in the flesh. I am a man, I came in the flesh.
God is spirit, he doesn't change Malachi 3:6
God is always spirit
I John 4:1-5 makes sure that God's people do not fall for the trinity lie
God did not change into flesh.
Jesus, being a man, came in the flesh
I Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Just there is no doubt God makes sure that we understand that
God is God
Men are men
the one mediator is the man Christ Jesus.
Not the God Christ Jesus
Not the God-man Christ Jesus
Not the second person of the trinity Christ Jesus
Not the son of a mother of god Christ Jesus
Not one third of a triune god Christ Jesus
The man Christ Jesus
Christ Jesus is THE MAN
sonofgod……….welcome to my world brother. You and I both know Jesus was a 100% pure human being who came into existence at just the right appointed Time in “HUMAN” history, as a “FLESH And BLOOD BORN Human being. To perform Gods purpose He did not preexist his berth on his earth, except in the plan and will of God.But as you have correctly posted, they make what's hypothetical as THEIR “truth” .
As I have said before you can't catch a snake in a briar patch. The briar patch is their hypothetical reasonings that they preach as “Truth.”
Peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,00:26) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,17:58) Kerwin. God had a person to person coversation with Moses
But Moses could not see His face.
Only his back part.
God has a body.
God is a spirit and He can appear in any form He chooses.wakeup.
Wakeup,Then do you believe face means person in Exodus 33:11 but literally means face in Exodus 33:20?
So not to be a trick question consider that Scripture teaches us the law was ordained by angels.
Galatians 3:19
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Since angels decreed the law then then it is clear they were the one God spoke through when he meant Moses face to face and later hid his face from Moses.
Kerwin.The fact that Moses could not see the face;tells us that it was God speaking to Moses;through His Word.
God uses the angels to perform His works.
God sends Gabriel to Daniel.
And God sends Michael to destroy the assyrians.
Angels are messengers.
Revelation was from God to Jesus, to His angel,to John,
to us.Which law? There are many.(leviticus).
The ten commandments?
Exodus 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.ps. We are created in the IMAGE OF GOD;WE HAVE A BODY LIKE GOD.
wakeup.
Quote (journey42 @ Jan. 20 2014,17:39) The whole message of the new testament is that the Son of God came in the flesh.
Agreed, journey. But these guys think that “came in the flesh” is a phrase that can be used for someone who has never been anything other than a flesh being.And I can't for the life of me imagine hearing, for example, “Abraham Lincoln came in the flesh on February 12th, 1809.”
A statement like that would beg the question: “As opposed to WHAT?”
We just don't say that phrase in reference to regular human beings who don't have any other choice BUT to “come in the flesh”.
So that phrase, in and of itself, is enough to tell us that Jesus must have existed as something OTHER THAN flesh before he CAME IN THE FLESH.
But as you know, preconceived notions die hard.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2014,04:09) I am told that Mosses spoke face to face with God and yet never saw his face. Exodus 33:11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
Exodus 33:20
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
The Hebrew idiom “see His face” refers to having a “one on one” with Him. In other words, talking DIRECTLY to God. It doesn't refer to a human being actually seeing the literal face of God.That being said, God most definitely has a body – face and all. The angels are allowed to literally see His face, and some of them do so on a daily basis. (Matthew 18:10)
We also know that God has a throne upon which He sits and rules. We can also read scriptures that speak of God “standing” here or there. We also know that God created both the angels and mankind in His image – and they have bodies.
I could go on, but Kerwin is hard-headed, and will believe what he wants to believe no matter what we say, Wakeup.
Better to just walk away from this one.
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2014,13:17) Of course we would not say “Mike” or anyone else “Came in the flesh” in everyday conversation………..
Agreed. Thank you, 2B.But the truth is that we wouldn't use that phrase EVER concerning the earthly life of any regular human being.
We would NEVER say, “Napoleon came in the flesh between 1769 and 1821.”
The phrase is useless to say about any human UNLESS that human existed as something OTHER THAN flesh before “coming in the flesh”.
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