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Mike you said….> What I'm saying is that I've got better things to do than keep posting stuff for you that you only end up ignoring. And then, two pages later, you ask me the same stupid crap I ALREADY ANSWERED. It's very irritating to me, so please stop doing it.[/b])
2. Your words about “PROPHETIC” and what not must have flew “over my head” after all, because I can't make heads or tails out of it.
3. As for you last point, concerning 1 Cor 8:5, you already know the deal. When you are honest enough to admit that JESUS is the one called “O God” in Hebrews 1:8, I will address your point AGAIN.
Until that time, shut up about it, because I'm not budging. I want that HONEST answer out of YOUR mouth first.[/quote]
Mike……….You said, you cant make heads or tails out of the word Prophetic, and you believe Jesus did not know what he was destined for.
Well if that is not a stupid summation i don't know what is. Jesus could open scriptures to his disciples showing every single thing written about him in scriptures , but some how you believe he did not know what was in store for him. How ignorant is that?, Do you really believe Jesus was that stupid?
Fact is Jesus knew everything that was going to happen to him and the Glory he would receive which was all written in scriptures, he even talked about that Glory and even the Glory his disciples would receive also. Lets see if we can find some scripture that will hep you out MIke.
Mat 16:27…. For the Son of “MAN” shall come in the “GLORY” of his Father withe his angels;……>
Mar 8:38…..…..> , When he comes in the “GLORY” of his Father with the holy angels.
Luke 9:26….……, when he shall come in his “OWN GLORY”, and in his Father's and of holy angels
Luk 24:26…. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his “GLORY” (27) and beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he “EXPOUNDED” unto them in “ALL” the scriptures the things concerning “HIMSELF”.
Joh 12:41….. These things said Isiah when he saw “HIS GLORY” , and spoke of him.
Rom 9:23….. And that he might “MAKE KNOWN” the riches of his glory on vessels of mercy, which he had “BEFORE” “PREPARED” unto “GLORY”
Jesus full well knew what was the Glory he was to receive, it was all written and Prophesied to happen, So your ignorant remark about me using the word Prophetic, only shows you lack of knowledge if you as me.
As fare as me not answering your Post about where It is said, to Jesus thy Kingdom, “O” God is and everlasting Kingdom , I have answered it several times . But because you are unable to accept my “HONEST” answer is your problem not mine , just as you have with many others here, accusing people of not “HONESTLY” answering your questions , when they have.
Who do you think you are, to think you can decide if we “HONESTLY” answered your question or not, just because we don't conform to “YOUR” screwed up renditions of those scriptures, doesn't mean we have not “HONESTLY” answered them.
Truth is, it is you who accuse others of not answering, that have not correctly answered scriptures we have posted to you. You base all your answers on a PREEXISTENCE view point and in that you are perverting the Gospel of Truth. It is your teaching that “SEPARATE” Jesus from his brother and sisters, Your doctrine of separation is all you care about. IMO
1 Cor 8:4 we know that there is no idol in the world and that there is “NO” God, but “ONE”.
That is the one you never answered Mike. So quite mouthing about us not answering your questions and start answering ours, for a change. IMO
peace and love………………………..gene
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,17:07) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,11:46) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,06:38) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,04:04) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,02:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 02 2014,02:46) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,05:01) A question for GeneB.
Please clarify.Who was melchisedek?
Was he not a living being without beginning
of life and no end of life?
Was he not the king of salem(peace),
and righteousness?
The high priest for ever?wakeup.
Wakeup…….First of all Melchisedek…….is not Jesus and His genealogy was not known, nor listed in scripture, but that does not mean he did not have a beginning of life, again that is just an assumption of what the author was saying it is not “Specifically” stated that way. You have no idea what the author meant by that statement and seeing there is no scripture that says he eternally existed, in the scriptures that show him and his Priesthood, then the author would be lying if he meant that he did not have a beginning , the author can only say that the origin are not in scripture, and that is correct because scripture does not show his linage.Wakeup…….Priests are taken form Mankind not from anywhere else, as far as I know, and Melchizedek a man was from human stock.
Heb 7:4….> Now consider how great the “MAM” was unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils
Wakeup did you see that he was a Man then he did have an origin even if it is not listed in scripture. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Gene B.He was a man with no beginning of life and end of life.
1.He is king of peace and righteousness.
2.There is only one king of peace;and king of
righteousness.He was the Word of God translated into flesh, His naame was then Melchisedek,the first king in salem,and the first high priest.
Jesus is the first of all things.col.1.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:And so, you are saying that Jesus was the Word and the Word was Melchisedec, but all this is speculation on your part.
The scripture states that Jesus was made after the order of Melchisedec, therefore, he cannot be Melchisedec.
Quote
Hbr 6:20Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hbr 7:11
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Hbr 7:17
For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hbr 7:21
(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.Why can Melchisedek not be Jesus?
Jesus was the one anointed,He does not follow any other.
But Himself.
This is not speculation,this is simply decerning
what you are reading.
He is the first of everything.
He also is the first king of peace(salem), and
righteousness. And the first high priest.wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:If Jesus was made a priest after the order of Melchisedeck, than it follows that he cannot be Melchisedeck himself, and furthermore as Gene has already posted the scripture relative to Melchisedeck that states that he was a man, and Jesus had not been born at that time.
This is not an easy subject to understand. Following is what James Fausset Brown states:
Quote
The meeting of Melchisedec and Abraham is the connecting link between to two dispensations, the patriarchal, represented by Melchisedec, who seems to have been specially consecrated by God as a KING-PRIEST, the highest form of that primitive system in which each father of a household was priest in it, and the Levitical, represented by Abraham, in which the priesthood was to be limited to one family of one tribe and one nation. The Levitical was parenthetical, and severed the kingdom and priesthood; the patriarchal was the true forerunner of Christ's, which, like Melchisedec's, unites the kingship and priesthood, and is not derived from other man, or transmitted to other man; but derived from God, and is transmitted in God to a never-ending perpetuity. Melchisedec's priesthood continueth in Christ for ever.Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.Why can Jesus not be Melchisedek,when Jesus also was
the rock that gives water in the desert of sinai?
He also was the tree of life in paradise.Why can the Word of God not be Jesus: same thing here.
Please explain.wakeup.
Hi wakeup:What scripture states that “Jesus was the rock that gives water in the desert of Sinai or the tree of life in the garden of paradise”, it may be symbolic of him, and Melchisedek is a type of ministry symbolic of that of Christ, but he himself is not “the Christ”.
We do have the following scripture:
Quote 1Cr 10:1
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Cr 10:2
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Cr 10:3
And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Cr 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Cr 10:5
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Cr 10:6
Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
The nation of Israel were given the Law of Moses, the Ten Commandments, which they did not keep, but it was given to them. This is the spiritual rock of which they drank, the Law of God. Jesus fulfilled the Law by obeying God without sin even unto death on the cross.
There are many other things in the OT that are symbolic of Jesus, like the seed of the woman, or the lamb without blemish that Israel sacrificed in the Passover etc., but they are not him in essence, but are symbolic of him.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,21:10) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,17:07) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,11:46) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,06:38) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,04:04) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,02:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 02 2014,02:46) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,05:01) A question for GeneB.
Please clarify.Who was melchisedek?
Was he not a living being without beginning
of life and no end of life?
Was he not the king of salem(peace),
and righteousness?
The high priest for ever?wakeup.
Wakeup…….First of all Melchisedek…….is not Jesus and His genealogy was not known, nor listed in scripture, but that does not mean he did not have a beginning of life, again that is just an assumption of what the author was saying it is not “Specifically” stated that way. You have no idea what the author meant by that statement and seeing there is no scripture that says he eternally existed, in the scriptures that show him and his Priesthood, then the author would be lying if he meant that he did not have a beginning , the author can only say that the origin are not in scripture, and that is correct because scripture does not show his linage.Wakeup…….Priests are taken form Mankind not from anywhere else, as far as I know, and Melchizedek a man was from human stock.
Heb 7:4….> Now consider how great the “MAM” was unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils
Wakeup did you see that he was a Man then he did have an origin even if it is not listed in scripture. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Gene B.He was a man with no beginning of life and end of life.
1.He is king of peace and righteousness.
2.There is only one king of peace;and king of
righteousness.He was the Word of God translated into flesh, His naame was then Melchisedek,the first king in salem,and the first high priest.
Jesus is the first of all things.col.1.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:And so, you are saying that Jesus was the Word and the Word was Melchisedec, but all this is speculation on your part.
The scripture states that Jesus was made after the order of Melchisedec, therefore, he cannot be Melchisedec.
Quote
Hbr 6:20Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hbr 7:11
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Hbr 7:17
For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hbr 7:21
(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.Why can Melchisedek not be Jesus?
Jesus was the one anointed,He does not follow any other.
But Himself.
This is not speculation,this is simply decerning
what you are reading.
He is the first of everything.
He also is the first king of peace(salem), and
righteousness. And the first high priest.wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:If Jesus was made a priest after the order of Melchisedeck, than it follows that he cannot be Melchisedeck himself, and furthermore as Gene has already posted the scripture relative to Melchisedeck that states that he was a man, and Jesus had not been born at that time.
This is not an easy subject to understand. Following is what James Fausset Brown states:
Quote
The meeting of Melchisedec and Abraham is the connecting link between to two dispensations, the patriarchal, represented by Melchisedec, who seems to have been specially consecrated by God as a KING-PRIEST, the highest form of that primitive system in which each father of a household was priest in it, and the Levitical, represented by Abraham, in which the priesthood was to be limited to one family of one tribe and one nation. The Levitical was parenthetical, and severed the kingdom and priesthood; the patriarchal was the true forerunner of Christ's, which, like Melchisedec's, unites the kingship and priesthood, and is not derived from other man, or transmitted to other man; but derived from God, and is transmitted in God to a never-ending perpetuity. Melchisedec's priesthood continueth in Christ for ever.Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.Why can Jesus not be Melchisedek,when Jesus also was
the rock that gives water in the desert of sinai?
He also was the tree of life in paradise.Why can the Word of God not be Jesus: same thing here.
Please explain.wakeup.
Hi wakeup:What scripture states that “Jesus was the rock that gives water in the desert of Sinai or the tree of life in the garden of paradise”, it may be symbolic of him, and Melchisedek is a type of ministry symbolic of that of Christ, but he himself is not “the Christ”.
We do have the following scripture:
Quote 1Cr 10:1
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Cr 10:2
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Cr 10:3
And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Cr 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritua
l drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.1Cr 10:5
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Cr 10:6
Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
The nation of Israel were given the Law of Moses, the Ten Commandments, which they did not keep, but it was given to them. This is the spiritual rock of which they drank, the Law of God. Jesus fulfilled the Law by obeying God without sin even unto death on the cross.
There are many other things in the OT that are symbolic of Jesus, like the seed of the woman, or the lamb without blemish that Israel sacrificed in the Passover etc., but they are not him in essence, but are symbolic of him.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote The nation of Israel were given the Law of Moses, the Ten Commandments, which they did not keep, but it was given to them. This is the spiritual rock of which they drank, the Law of God. Jesus fulfilled the Law by obeying God without sin even unto death on the cross. some kept it ;the law i mean
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 03 2014,02:10) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,17:07) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,11:46) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,06:38) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,04:04) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,02:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 02 2014,02:46) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,05:01) A question for GeneB.
Please clarify.Who was melchisedek?
Was he not a living being without beginning
of life and no end of life?
Was he not the king of salem(peace),
and righteousness?
The high priest for ever?wakeup.
Wakeup…….First of all Melchisedek…….is not Jesus and His genealogy was not known, nor listed in scripture, but that does not mean he did not have a beginning of life, again that is just an assumption of what the author was saying it is not “Specifically” stated that way. You have no idea what the author meant by that statement and seeing there is no scripture that says he eternally existed, in the scriptures that show him and his Priesthood, then the author would be lying if he meant that he did not have a beginning , the author can only say that the origin are not in scripture, and that is correct because scripture does not show his linage.Wakeup…….Priests are taken form Mankind not from anywhere else, as far as I know, and Melchizedek a man was from human stock.
Heb 7:4….> Now consider how great the “MAM” was unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils
Wakeup did you see that he was a Man then he did have an origin even if it is not listed in scripture. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Gene B.He was a man with no beginning of life and end of life.
1.He is king of peace and righteousness.
2.There is only one king of peace;and king of
righteousness.He was the Word of God translated into flesh, His naame was then Melchisedek,the first king in salem,and the first high priest.
Jesus is the first of all things.col.1.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:And so, you are saying that Jesus was the Word and the Word was Melchisedec, but all this is speculation on your part.
The scripture states that Jesus was made after the order of Melchisedec, therefore, he cannot be Melchisedec.
Quote
Hbr 6:20Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hbr 7:11
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Hbr 7:17
For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hbr 7:21
(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.Why can Melchisedek not be Jesus?
Jesus was the one anointed,He does not follow any other.
But Himself.
This is not speculation,this is simply decerning
what you are reading.
He is the first of everything.
He also is the first king of peace(salem), and
righteousness. And the first high priest.wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:If Jesus was made a priest after the order of Melchisedeck, than it follows that he cannot be Melchisedeck himself, and furthermore as Gene has already posted the scripture relative to Melchisedeck that states that he was a man, and Jesus had not been born at that time.
This is not an easy subject to understand. Following is what James Fausset Brown states:
Quote
The meeting of Melchisedec and Abraham is the connecting link between to two dispensations, the patriarchal, represented by Melchisedec, who seems to have been specially consecrated by God as a KING-PRIEST, the highest form of that primitive system in which each father of a household was priest in it, and the Levitical, represented by Abraham, in which the priesthood was to be limited to one family of one tribe and one nation. The Levitical was parenthetical, and severed the kingdom and priesthood; the patriarchal was the true forerunner of Christ's, which, like Melchisedec's, unites the kingship and priesthood, and is not derived from other man, or transmitted to other man; but derived from God, and is transmitted in God to a never-ending perpetuity. Melchisedec's priesthood continueth in Christ for ever.Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.Why can Jesus not be Melchisedek,when Jesus also was
the rock that gives water in the desert of sinai?
He also was the tree of life in paradise.Why can the Word of God not be Jesus: same thing here.
Please explain.wakeup.
Hi wakeup:What scripture states that “Jesus was the rock that gives water in the desert of Sinai or the tree of life in the garden of paradise”, it may be symbolic of him, and Melchisedek is a type of ministry symbolic of that of Christ, but he himself is not “the Christ”.
We do have the following scripture:
Quote 1Cr 10:1
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Cr 10:2
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Cr 10:3
And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Cr 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritua
l drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.1Cr 10:5
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Cr 10:6
Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
The nation of Israel were given the Law of Moses, the Ten Commandments, which they did not keep, but it was given to them. This is the spiritual rock of which they drank, the Law of God. Jesus fulfilled the Law by obeying God without sin even unto death on the cross.
There are many other things in the OT that are symbolic of Jesus, like the seed of the woman, or the lamb without blemish that Israel sacrificed in the Passover etc., but they are not him in essence, but are symbolic of him.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.Just think; Only one can give life.
Everything: including life is created by Him.
He is the Word of God,before his birth.
His name is Jesus after His birth.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,01:30) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 02 2014,04:01) Wakeup ………So are you deny he was a MAN Then?, please clarify. Now remember if you agree he was a “MAN” then he had to come from Mankind, right?. Another point is if he had no beginning or ending of Day's, then he would have to be GOD himself Right. Because God is the only one, who i believe scripture says, has no beginning or ending of days, correct? So in your view you have a GOD who is without beginning or ending of days and you have someone else also who had no begining or ending of days and I following you correctly?. peace and love to you and yours…………………………………….gene
GeneB.Just as Moses and Elijah can be translated
into another dimension.
So can the Word of god be translated into flesh.
I say translated;not born.wakeup.
Wakeup,You translate one language to another.
How does that fit Elijah situation?
How does it fit to the situation where the word was made flesh?Mike,
Quote If Michael, after the battle in heaven is done, asks God to glorify him with the glory HE HAD at the time he shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth, would you assume Michael was talking about a glory he never actually HAD before? According to you the word I had always imply that Jesus was with God.
That is an all premise and if it tests false in any case the logic it supports is flawed.
We already discussed the case where the father told his son everything I have is yours. The son can also say everything I have is my father's. The son can be in a far country and nothing what his father has is still his. At a later date he can go and say give me what I had with my father. This shows a case when your premise is false therefore your reasoning is flawed.
It is not logical because there exists at least one case when one of your premises is unsound.
Mike,
Quote If Michael, after the battle in heaven is done, asks God to glorify him with the glory HE HAD at the time he shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth, would you assume Michael was talking about a glory he never actually HAD before? You are assuming Michael is Jesus.
The chief angels Michael is mentioned twice in the New Testiment.
Jude 1:9
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
All these tell us is that Michael was sent to get Mosses body and that he led the angels against Satan and his angels at least once after the birth of Christ.
The Michael that Daniel speaks of it said to be the archangel and he is the prince of Daniel's people and a chief among the angels. He, a great prince, will arise at the end of days.
There is nothing that actually states he is Jesus so you must think that Scripture imply he is.
Have you tested this teaching to see if it is false?
Have you tested this teaching to see if it is definitely true?Quote (942767 @ Jan. 03 2014,02:10) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,17:07) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,11:46) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,06:38) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,04:04) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,02:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 02 2014,02:46) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,05:01) A question for GeneB.
Please clarify.Who was melchisedek?
Was he not a living being without beginning
of life and no end of life?
Was he not the king of salem(peace),
and righteousness?
The high priest for ever?wakeup.
Wakeup…….First of all Melchisedek…….is not Jesus and His genealogy was not known, nor listed in scripture, but that does not mean he did not have a beginning of life, again that is just an assumption of what the author was saying it is not “Specifically” stated that way. You have no idea what the author meant by that statement and seeing there is no scripture that says he eternally existed, in the scriptures that show him and his Priesthood, then the author would be lying if he meant that he did not have a beginning , the author can only say that the origin are not in scripture, and that is correct because scripture does not show his linage.Wakeup…….Priests are taken form Mankind not from anywhere else, as far as I know, and Melchizedek a man was from human stock.
Heb 7:4….> Now consider how great the “MAM” was unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils
Wakeup did you see that he was a Man then he did have an origin even if it is not listed in scripture. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Gene B.He was a man with no beginning of life and end of life.
1.He is king of peace and righteousness.
2.There is only one king of peace;and king of
righteousness.He was the Word of God translated into flesh, His naame was then Melchisedek,the first king in salem,and the first high priest.
Jesus is the first of all things.col.1.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:And so, you are saying that Jesus was the Word and the Word was Melchisedec, but all this is speculation on your part.
The scripture states that Jesus was made after the order of Melchisedec, therefore, he cannot be Melchisedec.
Quote
Hbr 6:20Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hbr 7:11
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Hbr 7:17
For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hbr 7:21
(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.Why can Melchisedek not be Jesus?
Jesus was the one anointed,He does not follow any other.
But Himself.
This is not speculation,this is simply decerning
what you are reading.
He is the first of everything.
He also is the first king of peace(salem), and
righteousness. And the first high priest.wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:If Jesus was made a priest after the order of Melchisedeck, than it follows that he cannot be Melchisedeck himself, and furthermore as Gene has already posted the scripture relative to Melchisedeck that states that he was a man, and Jesus had not been born at that time.
This is not an easy subject to understand. Following is what James Fausset Brown states:
Quote
The meeting of Melchisedec and Abraham is the connecting link between to two dispensations, the patriarchal, represented by Melchisedec, who seems to have been specially consecrated by God as a KING-PRIEST, the highest form of that primitive system in which each father of a household was priest in it, and the Levitical, represented by Abraham, in which the priesthood was to be limited to one family of one tribe and one nation. The Levitical was parenthetical, and severed the kingdom and priesthood; the patriarchal was the true forerunner of Christ's, which, like Melchisedec's, unites the kingship and priesthood, and is not derived from other man, or transmitted to other man; but derived from God, and is transmitted in God to a never-ending perpetuity. Melchisedec's priesthood continueth in Christ for ever.Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.Why can Jesus not be Melchisedek,when Jesus also was
the rock that gives water in the desert of sinai?
He also was the tree of life in paradise.Why can the Word of God not be Jesus: same thing here.
Please explain.wakeup.
Hi wakeup:What scripture states that “Jesus was the rock that gives water in the desert of Sinai or the tree of life in the garden of paradise”, it may be symbolic of him, and Melchisedek is a type of ministry symbolic of that of Christ, but he himself is not “the Christ”.
We do have the following scripture:
Quote 1Cr 10:1
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Cr 10:2
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Cr 10:3
And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Cr 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritua
l drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.1Cr 10:5
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Cr 10:6
Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
The nation of Israel were given the Law of Moses, the Ten Commandments, which they did not keep, but it was given to them. This is the spiritual rock of which they drank, the Law of God. Jesus fulfilled the Law by obeying God without sin even unto death on the cross.
There are many other things in the OT that are symbolic of Jesus, like the seed of the woman, or the lamb without blemish that Israel sacrificed in the Passover etc., but they are not him in essence, but are symbolic of him.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Maraty.I agree with you that the spiritual rock
was Jesus; but he was not yet born then,it was the teachings of mother Zion,that followed them.
The rock that gave them physical water to drink,
was also given to them by God.
1 cor.10:4. Mentioned the name Jesus for us to know.
not for them.wakeup.
To All……….Scripture says, Christ was the Rock that followed the children of Israel in the wilderness. Now while word Christ, can be taken as the Person Jesus, it should be taken as the ANOINTING SPIRIT of God, That spirit was on Moses, and the seventy elders, and Joshua and Aron the high Priest, God does all thing through his ANOINTING SPIRIT, So to me GOD”S anointing Spirit was the ROCK that followed the children of Israel in the wilderness, not Jesus who later after his berth on earth became a anointed “MAN” of God Scripture also say that God is the ONLY ROCK and we all know GOD is a “SPIRIT” It is God alone who save us and no matter who he does it through it still is the Anointing Spirit doing the Works. IMO
As far as Jesus being Michel the Arch Angel that can be disproved also, because scripture says, God has not subjected the world to come unto “ANGELS”.
Heb 2:5…..> For unto angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
peace and love to you all………………………..gene
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2014,10:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,04:49)
Marty, why do you suppose Jesus' hope was for the disciples to be where he was in order to see that glory he was talking about?Do you suppose it is because it was the SAME EXACT glory the disciples had already seen in him on earth? YES or NO?
………we will see the glory that God has given him and us in the resurrection when we will be raised with a spiritual body and be with him forever more.
So then we agree that Jesus was NOT speaking about the EARTHLY glory Jesus had as the only begotten Son of God on EARTH, right?We agree that Jesus was talking about a HEAVENLY glory that none of the disciples could see yet, right?
Now, since we agree it was a HEAVENLY glory that Jesus was talking about, we also know it was a HEAVENLY glory that Jesus said HE HAD before the world began.
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2014,10:56) But no, you have not shown the scripture, in you reply to Gene, where God gave Jesus more glory than he asked.
Hebrews 1:4
So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.Did Jesus have that “much superior” name before he came to earth?
Philippians 2:9
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name…….It seems not.
So John 17:5 tells us that Jesus indeed HAD glory before the world began, and asked to be glorified again with that same glory. But then God exalted him to the HIGHEST PLACE and gave him the HIGHEST NAME. And he BECAME as much superior to the [other] angels as the name God gave to him is superior to theirs.
These wordings suggest that Jesus received honor and glory that he DIDN'T have before, ie: a GREATER honor and glory than the honor and glory he left to be made in the likeness of a human being. And that means a GREATER honor and glory than the honor and glory he was asking to have returned to him in John 17:5.
Also, in Revelation, there was no one worthy to open the scroll. But you'll notice in 5:5 and 5:9 that the Lamb was deemed worthy to open the scroll BECAUSE he “triumphed”, and BECAUSE he was “slain”.
Was Jesus worthy to open that scroll BEFORE these things happened? The wording suggests that he BECAME worthy enough BECAUSE OF the things he did on earth. And that means Jesus has even MORE glory now than he had before he was made flesh.
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2014,11:04) The scripture states that Jesus was made after the order of Melchisedec, therefore, he cannot be Melchisedec.
I agree. Jesus was made a priest IN THE ORDER OF Melchizadek.That means Jesus is someone OTHER THAN Melchizadek, IMO.
Hi Wakeup:
You say:
Quote Marty. Just think; Only one can give life.
Everything: including life is created by Him.
He is the Word of God,before his birth.
His name is Jesus after His birth.wakeup.
This is what Jesus stated:
Quote
Jhn 5:24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jhn 5:25
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
[Jhn 5:26
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (kerwin @ Jan. 02 2014,01:33) Mike, The AV of the KJV used congregation in both passages. Psalms 74:2 is calling the whole of the nation if Israel a congregation.
Okay? ? ?I can agree that the nation of Israel, when gathered together, is a congregation/assembly. So what?
Show me when that congregation was ever in an assembly with God Himself, and God passed judgment upon them en masse.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 02 2014,09:08) ….your ignorant remark about me using the word Prophetic, only shows you lack of knowledge …..
I wasn't saying I didn't know what the word “prophetic” meant, Gene. I was saying that I had no clue what you were saying in that rant. Get it? I couldn't understand WHAT you were trying to say at all.I know what “prophetic” means.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 02 2014,09:08) As fare as me not answering your Post about where It is said, to Jesus thy Kingdom, “O” God is and everlasting Kingdom , I have answered it several times . But because you are unable to accept my “HONEST” answer is your problem not mine….
Okay, fair enough. Let me rephrase it for you:Gene, until you are SMART enough (not “HONEST enough”) to realize that the SON who is called “O God” in Hebrews 1:8 is Jesus, you are not SMART enough for me to explain 1 Cor 8:5 to you.
Is that better?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 02 2014,13:15) Mike, Quote If Michael, after the battle in heaven is done, asks God to glorify him with the glory HE HAD at the time he shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth, would you assume Michael was talking about a glory he never actually HAD before? According to you the word I had always imply that Jesus was with God.
Wrong. According to me, the words “I WAS HAVING” are never said by anyone who didn't actually HAVE that thing in the past.Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 02 2014,13:47) Mike, Quote If Michael, after the battle in heaven is done, asks God to glorify him with the glory HE HAD at the time he shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth, would you assume Michael was talking about a glory he never actually HAD before? You are assuming Michael is Jesus.
Wrong again, Kerwin.I have NEVER claimed that Michael is Jesus, nor do I believe that.
And my analogy has nothing at all to do with Michael being Jesus. Here, let me change it for you, and see if I can get an actual ANSWER instead of a diversion:
If Gabriel, after delivering a message to Daniel, asked God to glorify him with the glory HE HAD at the time he shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth, would you assume Gabriel was talking about a glory he never actually HAD before?
My point is that ANY TIME someone asks for something they HAD, you will automatically assume that person actually HAD that thing before. You assume this each and every time, because it is the only LOGICAL and SENSIBLE understanding of the words, “I HAD”.
And it is only in the case of John 17:5 that your personal wishes deter you from accepting this LOGICAL and SENSIBLE conclusion.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 03 2014,09:20) As far as Jesus being Michel the Arch Angel that can be disproved also, because scripture says, God has not subjected the world to come unto “ANGELS”. Heb 2:5…..> For unto angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Even though I don't personally believe Michael is Jesus, the scripture you posted doesn't disprove that claim.Hebrews 2:5 Young's Literal Translation
For not to messengers did He subject the coming world, concerning which we speak,See? The LITERAL meaning of the Greek word “aggelos” is “messenger”. And when an English translator believes that the “messenger” in question was a SPIRIT being, he translates as “angel”.
But either way fits Jesus. For Jesus is truly a “messenger”. And he is even a “SPIRIT messenger”.
charles
nice but no, mix up the written words and THE WORD of God as the first born over all creation ,
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 04 2014,03:01) Hi Wakeup: You say:
Quote Marty. Just think; Only one can give life.
Everything: including life is created by Him.
He is the Word of God,before his birth.
His name is Jesus after His birth.wakeup.
This is what Jesus stated:
Quote
Jhn 5:24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jhn 5:25
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
[Jhn 5:26
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.Melchisedek *has to be* the Word of God translated into flesh,
Because Jesus is **the pre'eminence of all things**.Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that
***in all things he might have the preeminence***.Melchisedek/Jesus; is the first king of peace;righteousness;
and first king of salem.(peace), and the first high priest.Jesus does not come second to anyone but Himself.
Jesus also comes after the Word of God;which is *He* himself.wakeup.
Hi Mike:
In response to your long post above, I would say nice try, Mike, but no, he did not say:
Quote So John 17:5 tells us that Jesus indeed HAD glory before the world began, and asked to be glorified again with that same glory There is that seemingly insignificant little word “again” that you are trying to force into the text.
And yes, he was speaking of the heavenly glory that he had from the foundation of the world it was a done deal from the beginning.
But about God giving him more glory than he asked, you post the scriptures about having a name more superior than the angels because of what he accomplished in his ministry on earth, and about his exaltation to his position as head of the church, and having a name above all names that at the name of Jesus every knee would bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God.
Ok., but now show me what glory he had with the Father before the world began so that we can see if God gave him more glory that what he asked.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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