What does it mean that Jesus came in the flesh?

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,06:42)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 30 2013,13:15)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 30 2013,21:38)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 28 2013,13:40)

Mike,

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

Verse 1: When did God ever preside in a huge assembly of human god prophets, and pass judgment on them?

I do not believe God is speaking to the prophets who merely convey his word. He was speaking to the children of Israel who received his word as their law.

He always presides over the assembly of humans and he always judges their hearts. That is why we are under the Wrath of God.

Okay. When in scripture did God assemble together with the entire nation of Israel, and render upon them judgments for their lack of defending the fatherless, poor, and oppressed?

Mike,

Quite often. That is why he appointed prophets to warn of his wrath. For example:

Isaiah 1:16-17
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

16 Wash you, make you clean;
put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes;
cease to do evil; 17 learn to do well;
seek judgment, relieve the oppressed,
judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

I'm sorry Kerwin. I didn't read in your passage where God assembled with a huge assembly of Israelites, and passed judgment on them en masse.

Perhaps you could point out that part for me. Or maybe a different scripture where God ASSEMBLED in a great ASSEMBLY with these “man-gods”.

Mike,

I assume you are defining assembly too narrow. It is more broadly as in Psalms 74:2

Psalm 74:2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2 Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old;
the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed;
this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.

December 31, 2013 at 10:34 pm#365090

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,07:02)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,06:42)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 30 2013,13:15)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 30 2013,21:38)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 28 2013,13:40)

Mike,

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

Verse 1: When did God ever preside in a huge assembly of human god prophets, and pass judgment on them?

I do not believe God is speaking to the prophets who merely convey his word. He was speaking to the children of Israel who received his word as their law.

He always presides over the assembly of humans and he always judges their hearts. That is why we are under the Wrath of God.

Okay. When in scripture did God assemble together with the entire nation of Israel, and render upon them judgments for their lack of defending the fatherless, poor, and oppressed?

Mike,

Quite often. That is why he appointed prophets to warn of his wrath. For example:

Isaiah 1:16-17
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

I'm sorry Kerwin. I didn't read in your passage where God assembled with a huge assembly of Israelites, and passed judgment on them en masse.

Perhaps you could point out that part for me. Or maybe a different scripture where God ASSEMBLED in a great ASSEMBLY with these “man-gods”.

Mike,

I assume you are defining assembly too narrow. It is more broadly as in Psalms 74:2

Psalm 74:2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2 Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old;
the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed;
this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.

Kerwin.

How do you glorify God?

wakeup.

December 31, 2013 at 11:04 pm#365094

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,03:34)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,07:02)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,06:42)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 30 2013,13:15)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 30 2013,21:38)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 28 2013,13:40)

Mike,

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

Verse 1: When did God ever preside in a huge assembly of human god prophets, and pass judgment on them?

I do not believe God is speaking to the prophets who merely convey his word. He was speaking to the children of Israel who received his word as their law.

He always presides over the assembly of humans and he always judges their hearts. That is why we are under the Wrath of God.

Okay. When in scripture did God assemble together with the entire nation of Israel, and render upon them judgments for their lack of defending the fatherless, poor, and oppressed?

Mike,

Quite often. That is why he appointed prophets to warn of his wrath. For example:

Isaiah 1:16-17
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

I'm sorry Kerwin. I didn't read in your passage where God assembled with a huge assembly of Israelites, and passed judgment on them en masse.

Perhaps you could point out that part for me. Or maybe a different scripture where God ASSEMBLED in a great ASSEMBLY with these “man-gods”.

Mike,

I assume you are defining assembly too narrow. It is more broadly as in Psalms 74:2

Psalm 74:2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2 Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old;
the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed;
this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.

Kerwin.

How do you glorify God?

wakeup.

Wake,

With the heart beyond your actions.

With your spirit.

I think they are the same.

December 31, 2013 at 11:17 pm#365101

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,09:04)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,03:34)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,07:02)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,06:42)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 30 2013,13:15)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 30 2013,21:38)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 28 2013,13:40)

Mike,

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

Verse 1: When did God ever preside in a huge assembly of human god prophets, and pass judgment on them?

I do not believe God is speaking to the prophets who merely convey his word. He was speaking to the children of Israel who received his word as their law.

He always presides over the assembly of humans and he always judges their hearts. That is why we are under the Wrath of God.

Okay. When in scripture did God assemble together with the entire nation of Israel, and render upon them judgments for their lack of defending the fatherless, poor, and oppressed?

Mike,

Quite often. That is why he appointed prophets to warn of his wrath. For example:

Isaiah 1:16-17
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

I'm sorry Kerwin. I didn't read in your passage where God assembled with a huge assembly of Israelites, and passed judgment on them en masse.

Perhaps you could point out that part for me. Or maybe a different scripture where God ASSEMBLED in a great ASSEMBLY with these “man-gods”.

Mike,

I assume you are defining assembly too narrow. It is more broadly as in Psalms 74:2

Psalm 74:2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2 Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old;
the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed;
this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.

Kerwin.

How do you glorify God?

wakeup.

Wake,

With the heart beyond your actions.

With your spirit.

I think they are the same.

Kerwin.

That Word means the same when Jesus
had glory with his Father.

wakeup.

January 1, 2014 at 5:56 am#365134

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,04:17)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,09:04)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,03:34)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,07:02)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,06:42)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 30 2013,13:15)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 30 2013,21:38)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 28 2013,13:40)

Mike,

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

Verse 1: When did God ever preside in a huge assembly of human god prophets, and pass judgment on them?

I do not believe God is speaking to the prophets who merely convey his word. He was speaking to the children of Israel who received his word as their law.

He always presides over the assembly of humans and he always judges their hearts. That is why we are under the Wrath of God.

Okay. When in scripture did God assemble together with the entire nation of Israel, and render upon them judgments for their lack of defending the fatherless, poor, and oppressed?

Mike,

Quite often. That is why he appointed prophets to warn of his wrath. For example:

Isaiah 1:16-17
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

I'm sorry Kerwin. I didn't read in your passage where God assembled with a huge assembly of Israelites, and passed judgment on them en masse.

Perhaps you could point out that part for me. Or maybe a different scripture where God ASSEMBLED in a great ASSEMBLY with these “man-gods”.

Mike,

I assume you are defining assembly too narrow. It is more broadly as in Psalms 74:2

Psalm 74:2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2 Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old;
the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed;
this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.

Kerwin.

How do you glorify God?

wakeup.

Wake,

With the heart beyond your actions.

With your spirit.

I think they are the same.

Kerwin.

That Word means the same when Jesus
had glory with his Father.

wakeup.

Wakeup,

I am missing part of you explanation as I am not sure of the connection you see between my words and your response.

January 1, 2014 at 9:07 am#365137

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,15:56)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,04:17)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,09:04)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,03:34)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 01 2014,07:02)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,06:42)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 30 2013,13:15)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 30 2013,21:38)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 28 2013,13:40)

Mike,

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

Verse 1: When did God ever preside in a huge assembly of human god prophets, and pass judgment on them?

I do not believe God is speaking to the prophets who merely convey his word. He was speaking to the children of Israel who received his word as their law.

He always presides over the assembly of humans and he always judges their hearts. That is why we are under the Wrath of God.

Okay. When in scripture did God assemble together with the entire nation of Israel, and render upon them judgments for their lack of defending the fatherless, poor, and oppressed?

Mike,

Quite often. That is why he appointed prophets to warn of his wrath. For example:

Isaiah 1:16-17
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

I'm sorry Kerwin. I didn't read in your passage where God assembled with a huge assembly of Israelites, and passed judgment on them en masse.

Perhaps you could point out that part for me. Or maybe a different scripture where God ASSEMBLED in a great ASSEMBLY with these “man-gods”.

Mike,

I assume you are defining assembly too narrow. It is more broadly as in Psalms 74:2

Psalm 74:2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2 Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old;
the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed;
this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.

Kerwin.

How do you glorify God?

wakeup.

Wake,

With the heart beyond your actions.

With your spirit.

I think they are the same.

Kerwin.

That Word means the same when Jesus
had glory with his Father.

wakeup.

Wakeup,

I am missing part of you explanation as I am not sure of the connection you see between my words and your response.

Kerwin.

Glory means Glory.

wakeup.

January 1, 2014 at 4:46 pm#365144

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,05:01)

A question for GeneB.
Please clarify.

Who was melchisedek?
Was he not a living being without beginning
of life and no end of life?
Was he not the king of salem(peace),
and righteousness?
The high priest for ever?

wakeup.

Wakeup…….First of all Melchisedek…….is not Jesus and His genealogy was not known, nor listed in scripture, but that does not mean he did not have a beginning of life, again that is just an assumption of what the author was saying it is not “Specifically” stated that way. You have no idea what the author meant by that statement and seeing there is no scripture that says he eternally existed, in the scriptures that show him and his Priesthood, then the author would be lying if he meant that he did not have a beginning , the author can only say that the origin are not in scripture, and that is correct because scripture does not show his linage.

Wakeup…….Priests are taken form Mankind not from anywhere else, as far as I know, and Melchizedek a man was from human stock.

Heb 7:4….> Now consider how great the “MAM” was unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils

Wakeup did you see that he was a Man then he did have an origin even if it is not listed in scripture. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

January 1, 2014 at 4:56 pm#365145

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 02 2014,02:46)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,05:01)

A question for GeneB.
Please clarify.

Who was melchisedek?
Was he not a living being without beginning
of life and no end of life?
Was he not the king of salem(peace),
and righteousness?
The high priest for ever?

wakeup.

Wakeup…….Priests are taken form Mankind not from anywhere else, as far as I know, and Melchizedek a man was from human stock.

Heb 7:4….> Now consider how great the “MAM” was unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils

Wakeup did you see that he was a Man then he did have an origin even if it is not listed in scripture. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

Gene B.

He was a man with no beginning of life and end of life.
1.He is king of peace and righteousness.
2.There is only one king of peace;and king of
righteousness.

He was the Word of God translated into flesh, His naame was then Melchisedek,the first king in salem,and the first high priest.

Jesus is the first of all things.col.1.

wakeup.

January 1, 2014 at 5:56 pm#365146

942767

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,04:49)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 30 2013,11:25)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2013,03:22)

Read verse 24 that you quoted for that answer, Marty. If Jesus was talking about the same kind of glory in verse 22 that he was talking about in verses 5 and 24, there would be no need for Jesus to hope they can be where he is, and behold that HEAVENLY glory.

Understand? The apostles wouldn't have to go anywhere to behold his EARTHLY glory. So he was APPARENTLY not talking about his EARTHLY glory in verse 5 and 24, right?

No, Mike, I have what he has promised me by faith, and it is the same principle that he used in stating:

Quote

Jhn 17:4

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Jhn 17:5

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Marty, why do you suppose Jesus' hope was for the disciples to be where he was in order to see that glory he was talking about?

Do you suppose it is because it was the SAME EXACT glory the disciples had already seen in him on earth? YES or NO?

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 30 2013,11:25)

And, you have not shown me where the scriptures state that God gave him more glory than he asked?

I pointed you to my post to Gene. Did you read it? Or would you like me to copy and paste the exact same thing to you?

Hi Mike:

We who are Jesus disciples and endure to the end are joint heirs with him, and so he has already give us that glory. He paid the ultimate price with his life, and we will see the glory that God has given him and us in the resurrection when we will be raised with a spiritual body and be with him forever more.

Jesus made the statement that he hoped that the Apostles would be with him to see the glory that his Father gave him because he was reluctant to leave them, but knew that it was necessary for him to do so, and he knew that they could not be with him until the resurrection.

But no, you have not shown the scripture, in you reply to Gene, where God gave Jesus more glory than he asked. There is no scripture to support your statement. In order for you to be able to show that is for you to know what glory he had in your pre-supposed pre-existent state, and for you to know in what form, as a man, as an angel or some other kind of being, and you can't.

Jesus was our example in every thing including the mindset of humility, Phil. 2, and he did not exalt himself.

Quote

Phl 2:8

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Phl 2:9

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Phl 2:10

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Phl 2:11

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

And so, why should he not ask the Father to glorify him with the glory that he had from the foundation of the world, it was through him that God will fulfill his plan for this world and the world to come and for humanity. His statement was:

Quote

Jhn 17:1
¶
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

Love in Christ,
Marty

January 1, 2014 at 6:01 pm#365147

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Wakeup ………So are you deny he was a MAN Then?, please clarify. Now remember if you agree he was a “MAN” then he had to come from Mankind, right?. Another point is if he had no beginning or ending of Day's, then he would have to be GOD himself Right. Because God is the only one, who i believe scripture says, has no beginning or ending of days, correct? So in your view you have a GOD who is without beginning or ending of days and you have someone else also who had no begining or ending of days am I following you correctly?.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………….gene

January 1, 2014 at 6:04 pm#365148

942767

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,02:56)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 02 2014,02:46)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,05:01)

A question for GeneB.
Please clarify.

Who was melchisedek?
Was he not a living being without beginning
of life and no end of life?
Was he not the king of salem(peace),
and righteousness?
The high priest for ever?

wakeup.

Wakeup…….Priests are taken form Mankind not from anywhere else, as far as I know, and Melchizedek a man was from human stock.

Heb 7:4….> Now consider how great the “MAM” was unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils

Wakeup did you see that he was a Man then he did have an origin even if it is not listed in scripture. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

Gene B.

He was a man with no beginning of life and end of life.
1.He is king of peace and righteousness.
2.There is only one king of peace;and king of
righteousness.

He was the Word of God translated into flesh, His naame was then Melchisedek,the first king in salem,and the first high priest.

Jesus is the first of all things.col.1.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

And so, you are saying that Jesus was the Word and the Word was Melchisedec, but all this is speculation on your part.

The scripture states that Jesus was made after the order of Melchisedec, therefore, he cannot be Melchisedec.

Quote

Hbr 6:20

Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hbr 7:11

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Hbr 7:17

For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hbr 7:21

(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)

Love in Christ,
Marty

January 1, 2014 at 8:30 pm#365154

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 02 2014,04:01)

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………….gene

GeneB.

Just as Moses and Elijah can be translated
into another dimension.
So can the Word of god be translated into flesh.
I say translated;not born.

wakeup.

January 1, 2014 at 8:38 pm#365155

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,04:04)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,02:56)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 02 2014,02:46)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,05:01)

A question for GeneB.
Please clarify.

Who was melchisedek?
Was he not a living being without beginning
of life and no end of life?
Was he not the king of salem(peace),
and righteousness?
The high priest for ever?

wakeup.

Wakeup…….Priests are taken form Mankind not from anywhere else, as far as I know, and Melchizedek a man was from human stock.

Heb 7:4….> Now consider how great the “MAM” was unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils

Wakeup did you see that he was a Man then he did have an origin even if it is not listed in scripture. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

Gene B.

He was a man with no beginning of life and end of life.
1.He is king of peace and righteousness.
2.There is only one king of peace;and king of
righteousness.

He was the Word of God translated into flesh, His naame was then Melchisedek,the first king in salem,and the first high priest.

Jesus is the first of all things.col.1.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

And so, you are saying that Jesus was the Word and the Word was Melchisedec, but all this is speculation on your part.

The scripture states that Jesus was made after the order of Melchisedec, therefore, he cannot be Melchisedec.

Quote

Hbr 6:20

Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hbr 7:11

Hbr 7:17

For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hbr 7:21

(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

Why can Melchisedek not be Jesus?
Jesus was the one anointed,He does not follow any other.
But Himself.
This is not speculation,this is simply decerning
what you are reading.
He is the first of everything.
He also is the first king of peace(salem), and
righteousness. And the first high priest.

wakeup.

January 2, 2014 at 1:46 am#365162

942767

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,06:38)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,04:04)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,02:56)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 02 2014,02:46)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,05:01)

A question for GeneB.
Please clarify.

Who was melchisedek?
Was he not a living being without beginning
of life and no end of life?
Was he not the king of salem(peace),
and righteousness?
The high priest for ever?

wakeup.

Wakeup…….Priests are taken form Mankind not from anywhere else, as far as I know, and Melchizedek a man was from human stock.

Heb 7:4….> Now consider how great the “MAM” was unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils

Wakeup did you see that he was a Man then he did have an origin even if it is not listed in scripture. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

Gene B.

He was a man with no beginning of life and end of life.
1.He is king of peace and righteousness.
2.There is only one king of peace;and king of
righteousness.

He was the Word of God translated into flesh, His naame was then Melchisedek,the first king in salem,and the first high priest.

Jesus is the first of all things.col.1.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

And so, you are saying that Jesus was the Word and the Word was Melchisedec, but all this is speculation on your part.

The scripture states that Jesus was made after the order of Melchisedec, therefore, he cannot be Melchisedec.

Quote

Hbr 6:20

Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hbr 7:11

Hbr 7:17

For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hbr 7:21

(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

If Jesus was made a priest after the order of Melchisedeck, than it follows that he cannot be Melchisedeck himself, and furthermore as Gene has already posted the scripture relative to Melchisedeck that states that he was a man, and Jesus had not been born at that time.

This is not an easy subject to understand. Following is what James Fausset Brown states:

Quote

The meeting of Melchisedec and Abraham is the connecting link between to two dispensations, the patriarchal, represented by Melchisedec, who seems to have been specially consecrated by God as a KING-PRIEST, the highest form of that primitive system in which each father of a household was priest in it, and the Levitical, represented by Abraham, in which the priesthood was to be limited to one family of one tribe and one nation. The Levitical was parenthetical, and severed the kingdom and priesthood; the patriarchal was the true forerunner of Christ's, which, like Melchisedec's, unites the kingship and priesthood, and is not derived from other man, or transmitted to other man; but derived from God, and is transmitted in God to a never-ending perpetuity. Melchisedec's priesthood continueth in Christ for ever.

Love in Christ,
Marty

January 2, 2014 at 2:13 am#365171

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 31 2013,13:47)

I do not see where it can logically mean Jesus was asking for the return of the “glory” he had in heaven before the world began?

Why is that, Kerwin?

If Michael, after the battle in heaven is done, asks God to glorify him with the glory HE HAD at the time he shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth, would you assume Michael was talking about a glory he never actually HAD before?

Of course not. You would know, even if there was nothing else in scripture to support it, that Michael must have HAD glory at the time the foundations of the earth were laid. You would know it clear as day from that one simple request Michael made to God.

Ahhhh………. but let's assume that for PERSONAL reasons, you didn't WANT Michael to have had glory at the time the foundations of the earth were laid. Only THEN would the words, “glorify me with the glory I had when you laid the foundations of the earth” come into question. Only THEN would you need to play “definition games”, and start looking for ANYTHING else those words could be misconstrued into meaning. Because only THEN would you have a REASON to NOT accept those clear words for the MOST LOGICAL and MOST SENSIBLE thing they could possibly mean.

And this is where we are with John 17:5, Kerwin. If you didn't have a PERSONSAL WISH for Jesus not to have pre-existed, we'd never even be having this discussion. Because without that PERSONAL WISH of yours, you would just accept those clear words for the MOST LOGICAL thing they could possibly mean.

Now, please pick your BEST alternate definition of “doxa” for me, and show me how this alternate definition would change the fact that Jesus was asking for something he had already HAD before.

See what I mean? It doesn't really matter if you want to dig to the bottom of the definition barrel, and find a definition of “doxa” that perhaps wasn't even used in scripture……. because the fact remains that ANY way you choose to define the word, Jesus WAS HAVING that thing in God's presence before the world began.

Understand? Changing the definition to one that suits YOU more, and the context less, won't even matter anyway. Because you'll never be able to change the fact that Jesus was asking for the RETURN of something he already HAD before the world began.

January 2, 2014 at 2:24 am#365173

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 31 2013,14:02)

Mike,

I assume you are defining assembly too narrow. It is more broadly as in Psalms 74:2

That's not an answer, Kerwin. Nor does your new scripture say anything about God assembling, en masse, with a bunch of Israelite “man-gods”, and rendering judgment upon them.

I'm beginning to think there is no such scripture – just as I suspected from the start.

I'm also awaiting a VALID answer as to why God would tell men, who already knew they were going to die like men, that they WERE going to die like men.

January 2, 2014 at 2:38 am#365174

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2013,11:05)

Mike…….. So in your system of reasoning You actually believe Jesus did not know the Glory laid down for him, written clearly in scriptures right?, How dumb is that Mike ?.

Well tell us then. If I WAS TO HAVE something, by way of PROPHESY, then WHO was I EVER “HAVING” or “HAD” it WITH before it ever HAPPENED, NOT MYSELF, that is for sure , it was “WITH” GOD, as written in his , “PROPHETIC” WORDS given through the prophets, and I do believe Jesus full well understood His position and Glory in all that. Did that fly over you head MIKE, or can you understand it? Another thing the word “WAS” is not even in that scripture Mike you added it to shore up your personal dogmas of a preexisting Jesus.

“O” and Mike……….Hears one you still have not addressed we know that there is no idol in the world and that there is “NO” God , but “ONE” . would love to hear you commits on that, filtered through your “EMPHATIC” or “EMPATHETIC” system of reasoning's. Talking about “LET BE HONEST” Now there a good one for you.

peace and love……………………………………gene

Gene, all of those things have already been addressed for you, using SCRIPTURES.

1. Whether or not Jesus knew he would be exalted to the highest place in heaven is NOT told to us through scripture. But if YOU want to imagine that Jesus knew exactly how high God would exalt him, then refer back to that scriptural passage I already posted for you. And then tell me, would Jesus ASK for that highest place of honor, with the risk of being humiliated and told to move down a notch? Or would he ask for the lowest place, with the hope that God would exalt him and move him up higher?

Which one does that passage I quoted point to Gene? (Now, do NOT bring this point up again UNTIL and UNLESS you address that scripture that I already used my precious time to locate, copy and paste for you. Do you understand that Gene? What I'm saying is that I've got better things to do than keep posting stuff for you that you only end up ignoring. And then, two pages later, you ask me the same stupid crap I ALREADY ANSWERED. It's very irritating to me, so please stop doing it.)

2. Your words about “PROPHETIC” and what not must have flew “over my head” after all, because I can't make heads or tails out of it.

3. As for you last point, concerning 1 Cor 8:5, you already know the deal. When you are honest enough to admit that JESUS is the one called “O God” in Hebrews 1:8, I will address your point AGAIN.

Until that time, shut up about it, because I'm not budging. I want that HONEST answer out of YOUR mouth first.

January 2, 2014 at 2:48 am#365175

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2013,11:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2014,03:24)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2013,09:50)

Just as the Glory Jesus' was about receive was Prophesied for him, and he was asking for it.

See what I mean? Jesus did NOT say, “Give me the glory that was prophesied for me to someday receive”. See how you have to TWIST the words “I HAD”, in order to “trick” the scripture into teaching what you WANT it to teach?

Do you think that is a sound and honest practice? I don't.

Mike …… i was just giving you and example of what i perceive that about what Jesus was asking for.

And that's all we need to hear, Gene. You are “PERCEIVING” things that aren't even close to being WRITTEN in the scriptures.

What you “PERCEIVE” is not even close to what Jesus actually said.

Now, I asked you if you think that is a sound practice for seeking the TRUTH of the scriptures. Well? Do you?

January 2, 2014 at 7:07 am#365179

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,11:46)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,06:38)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 02 2014,04:04)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 02 2014,02:56)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 02 2014,02:46)

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 01 2014,05:01)

A question for GeneB.
Please clarify.

Who was melchisedek?
Was he not a living being without beginning
of life and no end of life?
Was he not the king of salem(peace),
and righteousness?
The high priest for ever?

wakeup.

Wakeup…….Priests are taken form Mankind not from anywhere else, as far as I know, and Melchizedek a man was from human stock.

Heb 7:4….> Now consider how great the “MAM” was unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils

Wakeup did you see that he was a Man then he did have an origin even if it is not listed in scripture. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

Gene B.

He was a man with no beginning of life and end of life.
1.He is king of peace and righteousness.
2.There is only one king of peace;and king of
righteousness.

He was the Word of God translated into flesh, His naame was then Melchisedek,the first king in salem,and the first high priest.

Jesus is the first of all things.col.1.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

And so, you are saying that Jesus was the Word and the Word was Melchisedec, but all this is speculation on your part.

The scripture states that Jesus was made after the order of Melchisedec, therefore, he cannot be Melchisedec.

Quote

Hbr 6:20

Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hbr 7:11

Hbr 7:17

For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hbr 7:21

(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

This is not an easy subject to understand. Following is what James Fausset Brown states:

Quote

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

Why can Jesus not be Melchisedek,when Jesus also was
the rock that gives water in the desert of sinai?
He also was the tree of life in paradise.

Why can the Word of God not be Jesus: same thing here.
Please explain.

wakeup.

January 2, 2014 at 8:33 am#365191