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Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,08:38) T, Humans are called gods in English as well as in Koine Greek and Hebrew.
Show me the human that is called a god in either the Hebrew or Greek scriptures.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 17 2013,09:21) Kerwin……….Here is my take on what Jesus was telling the Thief on the Cross, I am telling you “THIS DAY” or “TODAY” , you “SHALL BE” with me, in Paradise. Jesus did not go to paradise that day………
Really Gene? You understand it the same way I do?Hmmmmm…………… I wonder why I didn't get any of your famous, “You've got it right, brother” atta boys that you give to other people.
Mike……if you believe it that way , then I do believe you got it right. Sorry I didn't, see where you said that, or I would have agreed with you.
Peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,10:09) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 16 2013,18:52) Instead of what is written it does not say “give me the glory I had when I was with you before the world began” even though you seem to think it does.
“Instead of what is written it does not say……….” ?
You write in a very cryptic way. And I say “cryptic” to be polite.
Buy anyway, it DOES SAY the……….. glory………. I………….. HAD………… before………. the………… world……….. began.
The words “I HAD” are the key, Kerwin. Jesus couldn't have said, “the glory I HAD” unless Jesus actually HAD that glory at a previous time.
Twist it all you like. The facts are still the facts – whether or not you choose to believe them.
Mike ….. Wrong you conclusions are based not on the determinations of God, in his creative abilities. He knew what Jesus would do and who he would become, before he ever came into existence, and the Human glory he would bestow on him. Just as knew about King Cyrus and prophesied his life 200 years before his berth and the glory he would have bestowed on him also. Jesus was the first man in the plan and will of God to receive That glory afforded him, before he ever came into existence, just as Cyrus who had a different kind glory, afforded him by God before he was ever born, and even mankind in a general sense, has a foreordained Glory afforded him, from the foundations of the earth which he has not yet received.Your False teaching of Jesus' Preexistence only distorts, the intent that God had for mankind, and Jesus is just the First to have received it, but many will follow, he is simply the FIRSTBORN from mankind to have received that predestined GORY and HONOR, from God, and ALL things are now put under his feet as it shall be for all saved mankind, this is the plan and will of God for his complete human creation. IMO
Peace and love……………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,05:16) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,08:38) T, Humans are called gods in English as well as in Koine Greek and Hebrew.
Show me the human that is called a god in either the Hebrew or Greek scriptures.
Mike,You do not believe Jesus so why would you believe me?
I am well aware who the word of God came to are you?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,05:15) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,08:33) I did point out that John 17:5 explicitly states it is Jesus' glory that is with God and not Jesus. It is another case where you adding words that not there.
I'm not sure which Bible you've been reading, but the words are, “the glory I WAS HAVING with you before the world was”.It is JESUS talking……. not THE GLORY talking. So it is JESUS who is saying HE HAD glory with God a long time ago.
Why is this so hard for you, Kerwin?
Mike,None of the translations say having. All but the paraphrased one state “I had”. The Aramaic in plain English inserts the words “in union: while a couple of the older ones are awkwardly worded. Otherwise they seem similar to the AV of KJB. That is the one I was using and you are one inserting words.
John 17:5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
I am claiming that God had Jesus glory with him before the world was and Jesus was asking God to give him it. It is exactly what it states.
You on the other hand are adding your words to it by inserting the words “while I was” between “I had” and “with you”. Those words are enot there.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 18 2013,15:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,10:09) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 16 2013,18:52) Instead of what is written it does not say “give me the glory I had when I was with you before the world began” even though you seem to think it does.
“Instead of what is written it does not say……….” ?You write in a very cryptic way. And I say “cryptic” to be polite.
Buy anyway, it DOES SAY the……….. glory………. I………….. HAD………… before………. the………… world……….. began.
The words “I HAD” are the key, Kerwin. Jesus couldn't have said, “the glory I HAD” unless Jesus actually HAD that glory at a previous time.
Twist it all you like. The facts are still the facts – whether or not you choose to believe them.
Mike ….. Wrong you conclusions are based not on the determinations of God, in his creative abilities. He knew what Jesus would do and who he would become, before he ever came into existence, and the Human glory he would bestow on him. Just as knew about King Cyrus and prophesied his life 200 years before his berth and the glory he would have bestowed on him also. Jesus was the first man in the plan and will of God to receive That glory afforded him, before he ever came into existence, just as Cyrus who had a different kind glory, afforded him by God before he was ever born, and even mankind in a general sense, has a foreordained Glory afforded him, from the foundations of the earth which he has not yet received.Your False teaching of Jesus' Preexistence only distorts, the intent that God had for mankind, and Jesus is just the First to have received it, but many will follow, he is simply the FIRSTBORN from mankind to have received that predestined GORY and HONOR, from God, and ALL things are now put under his feet as it shall be for all saved mankind, this is the plan and will of God for his complete human creation. IMO
Peace and love……………………gene
GeneB.You are confusing God's plan on the drawing board
before he started creating.We are all in his plan.
———-
Is Jesus just another God next to God?Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called,
***Wonderful***
**Counsellor******The mighty God***,
***The everlasting Father******The Prince of Peace***.
I am Alpha and Omega.
The First and the last.
I am He that lived and was dead.
I am alive forever more.1.He is apha and omega.
2.He is the first and the last.(he was before all creation).
3.He was living.
4.Then dead.
5.Then alive for ever more.wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,21:21) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2013,21:10) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,20:33) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2013,07:48) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,06:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2013,05:32) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 15 2013,19:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2013,01:01) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 13 2013,12:09) To answer you question the glory God has reserved for Jesus was not a body of any type.
Which scripture tells us that God had glory “reserved for” Jesus?I know of John 17:5, which speaks of the glory Jesus himself HAD with God before the world began. I'm not familiar with the scripture that says God had “reserved” some glory for Jesus.
Mike,I was paraphrasing the one you speak of as God had the glory that he predestined to be Jesus' before the world began. Jesus was asking for it and so he did not yet have it. He also did not say he surrendered it.
No Kerwin.If someone says, “Give to me now this thing I HAD with you a long time ago” – then they are asking for something to be RETURNED to them.
It is a simple teaching, but your personal preferences insist that you add your own spin to it, and PRETEND Jesus was asking for something God had been HOLDING FOR HIM.
The words “I HAD” do NOT reflect your perversion of that verse.
Mike,Yes, Jesus' glory was with God before the world began.
Instead of what is written it does not say “give me the glory I had when I was with you before the world began” even though you seem to think it does.
kwhy you do not tell us what you see in those scriptures ,instead of going in circles ,
and show us the scriptures of your view so we know it is the truth
T,I did point out that John 17:5 explicitly states it is Jesus' glory that is with God and not Jesus.
Please show me where the words ” I was with you before the world began” are in John 17:5 instead of trying to force the words “was with” and into the word “had”. What it means is just what it states and that is that God had Jesus' glory with him before the world began.
It is another case where you adding words that not there.
KWHAT IS THE GLORY OF CHRIST ”
T,Jesus is speaking of a glory that he will receive and which God had waiting for him. Giving the context of the situation he was speaking of his self sacrifice at the least. He is talking about giving eternal life to many and his self sacrifice accomplished that goal.
John 17
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
KYour explanation does not fit the scriptures ,it seems you make God the son that he created and for which he created all things ,
Is that what you are saying
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 18 2013,12:23) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 18 2013,15:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,10:09) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 16 2013,18:52) Instead of what is written it does not say “give me the glory I had when I was with you before the world began” even though you seem to think it does.
“Instead of what is written it does not say……….” ?You write in a very cryptic way. And I say “cryptic” to be polite.
Buy anyway, it DOES SAY the……….. glory………. I………….. HAD………… before………. the………… world……….. began.
The words “I HAD” are the key, Kerwin. Jesus couldn't have said, “the glory I HAD” unless Jesus actually HAD that glory at a previous time.
Twist it all you like. The facts are still the facts – whether or not you choose to believe them.
Mike ….. Wrong you conclusions are based not on the determinations of God, in his creative abilities. He knew what Jesus would do and who he would become, before he ever came into existence, and the Human glory he would bestow on him. Just as knew about King Cyrus and prophesied his life 200 years before his berth and the glory he would have bestowed on him also. Jesus was the first man in the plan and will of God to receive That glory afforded him, before he ever came into existence, just as Cyrus who had a different kind glory, afforded him by God before he was ever born, and even mankind in a general sense, has a foreordained Glory afforded him, from the foundations of the earth which he has not yet received.Your False teaching of Jesus' Preexistence only distorts, the intent that God had for mankind, and Jesus is just the First to have received it, but many will follow, he is simply the FIRSTBORN from mankind to have received that predestined GORY and HONOR, from God, and ALL things are now put under his feet as it shall be for all saved mankind, this is the plan and will of God for his complete human creation. IMO
Peace and love……………………gene
GeneB.You are confusing God's plan on the drawing board
before he started creating.We are all in his plan.
———-
Is Jesus just another God next to God?Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called,
***Wonderful***
**Counsellor******The mighty God***,
***The everlasting Father******The Prince of Peace***.
I am Alpha and Omega.
The First and the last.
I am He that lived and was dead.
I am alive forever more.1.He is apha and omega.
2.He is the first and the last.(he was before all creation).
3.He was living.
4.Then dead.
5.Then alive for ever more.wakeup.
WIt seems to me that you have fun to ask mike and I the same questions ,
Your miss understanding of scriptures becomes more and more evident ,
Day by day
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 18 2013,17:41) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 18 2013,12:23) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 18 2013,15:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,10:09) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 16 2013,18:52) Instead of what is written it does not say “give me the glory I had when I was with you before the world began” even though you seem to think it does.
“Instead of what is written it does not say……….” ?You write in a very cryptic way. And I say “cryptic” to be polite.
Buy anyway, it DOES SAY the……….. glory………. I………….. HAD………… before………. the………… world……….. began.
The words “I HAD” are the key, Kerwin. Jesus couldn't have said, “the glory I HAD” unless Jesus actually HAD that glory at a previous time.
Twist it all you like. The facts are still the facts – whether or not you choose to believe them.
Mike ….. Wrong you conclusions are based not on the determinations of God, in his creative abilities. He knew what Jesus would do and who he would become, before he ever came into existence, and the Human glory he would bestow on him. Just as knew about King Cyrus and prophesied his life 200 years before his berth and the glory he would have bestowed on him also. Jesus was the first man in the plan and will of God to receive That glory afforded him, before he ever came into existence, just as Cyrus who had a different kind glory, afforded him by God before he was ever born, and even mankind in a general sense, has a foreordained Glory afforded him, from the foundations of the earth which he has not yet received.Your False teaching of Jesus' Preexistence only distorts, the intent that God had for mankind, and Jesus is just the First to have received it, but many will follow, he is simply the FIRSTBORN from mankind to have received that predestined GORY and HONOR, from God, and ALL things are now put under his feet as it shall be for all saved mankind, this is the plan and will of God for his complete human creation. IMO
Peace and love……………………gene
GeneB.You are confusing God's plan on the drawing board
before he started creating.We are all in his plan.
———-
Is Jesus just another God next to God?Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called,
***Wonderful***
**Counsellor******The mighty God***,
***The everlasting Father******The Prince of Peace***.
I am Alpha and Omega.
The First and the last.
I am He that lived and was dead.
I am alive forever more.1.He is apha and omega.
2.He is the first and the last.(he was before all creation).
3.He was living.
4.Then dead.
5.Then alive for ever more.wakeup.
WIt seems to me that you have fun to ask mike and I the same questions ,
Your miss understanding of scriptures becomes more and more evident ,
Day by day
T.Anyone can say what they like
but have no evidence.I can call you a thief as much as I like,
but as long as evidence is not provided,
I am a false accuser.wakeup.
Wakeup……….In the First place you should address the question, is Jesus a God of any kind if you ask me. Now sense you brought up the question “is Jesus Just another God “next” to God “? Here is my answer for you.
I have a favor to ask of you, Please go an read 2 Ths 2, with this very thing in mind, that Jesus is a God, as he is “obviously” being “displayed” as a God, by all Trinitarians and Preexistence's. Please keep this in mind while reading it, and remember that Jesus is the “ONLY” ONE “NOW” SITTING IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD WHO IS BEING DISPLAYED AS A GOD. and also keep in mind that, that”INIQUITY” was already started at the time it was written by Paul , also Keep in Mind it is a LIE Which changes the IMAGE of a MAN into the IMAGE of HIM being a GOD .
Now ask yourself who is the “ONLY” person, “NOW” seated in the temple of God being “DISPLAYED”, as a GOD?, answer, it is Jesus who is NOW seated in the temple of God being “DISPLAYED” as a GOD. Not by him but by people like you and others here. This false teaching changes the “IMAGE” of the Man Jesus, to the IMAGE of a MAN OF SIN, Which Jesus will completely abolish at his return by the words of his own mouth, just a s it say. It will be Jesus himself who will set things straight, until them, He will continue to be Preached as A God sitting in the temple of God and worshiped as such.
So no matter what, those who know the truth about Jesus not being a God , it will not change the masses who believe he is a God, it will take Jesus himself to do that, and he will. Because God has sent a “deluding spirit” into all those who love not the truth that they might believe “THE LIE” ,that Jesus is a God, and is “displaying” himself as a “God” .
All who have the SPIRIT of TRUTH can easily see it. The LORD my GOD showed me this a long long time ago. So if you think i have any wisdom from GOD then please give this some honest consideration, it should make quite a difference in you understand about Jesus being a God. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 18 2013,21:56) Wakeup……….In the First place you should address the question, is Jesus a God of any kind if you ask me. Now sense you brought up the question “is Jesus Just another God “next” to God “? Here is my answer for you. I have a favor to ask of you, Please go an read 2 Ths 2, with that very thing in mind that Jesus is a God and obviously is displayed as a God by all Trinitarians and Preexistence's. Please keep this in mind while reading it, that Jesus is the “ONLY” ONE “NOW” SITTING IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD WHO IS BEING DISPLAYED AS A GOD. and also keep in mind that that “INIQUITY” was already started at the time it was written , also Keep in Mind it is a LIE Which changes the IMAGE of a Person in to the IMAGE of HIM being a GOD .
Now ask yourself who is the “ONLY” person, “NOW” seated in the temple of God being displayed as a GOD?, answer it is Jesus who is NOW seated in the temple of God being “DISPLAYED” as a GOD. Not by him but by people like you and others here. This false teaching changes the “IMAGE” of the Man Jesus, to the IMAGE of a MAN OF SIN, Which Jesus will completely abolish at his return by the words of his own mouth, just a s it say. It will be Jesus himself who will set things straight, until them, He will continue to be Preached as A God sitting in the temple of God and worshiped as such.
So no matter what, those who know the truth about Jesus not being a God , it will not change the masses who believe he is a God, it will take Jesus himself to do that, and he will. Because God has sent a “deluding spirit” into all those who love not the truth that they might believe “THE LIE” ,that Jesus is a God, and is “displaying” himself as a “God” .
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
genewhy you never answer the question Mike ask you and me
it would break your house of cards
Terricca……….. Quite trying to change subject matter between me and wakeup, and by the way, I have answered them many times , just because you and Mike fail to understand it, is not my fault, now is it?
But i noticed you and your mentor Mike, never have said if you both agree or disagree with this Scripture now have you?
1 Cor 8:4….> we know that there is no idol in the world and that there is”NO” God, but “ONE”.Pierre how do you live with yourself knowing what it say there?, aren't you the least bit confused, like your wolf friend friend is by now?
No Pierre, it is the Wolf and his friend the little Fox's house of cards, that will fall apart not mine. You both have built your houses on a foundation of sand and in time will fall apart. What is sad is the damage you two are doing with your false teachings to others. IMO
peace and love ………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 19 2013,02:56) Wakeup……….In the First place you should address the question, is Jesus a God of any kind if you ask me. Now sense you brought up the question “is Jesus Just another God “next” to God “? Here is my answer for you. I have a favor to ask of you, Please go an read 2 Ths 2, with this very thing in mind, that Jesus is a God, as he is “obviously” being “displayed” as a God, by all Trinitarians and Preexistence's. Please keep this in mind while reading it, and remember that Jesus is the “ONLY” ONE “NOW” SITTING IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD WHO IS BEING DISPLAYED AS A GOD. and also keep in mind that, that”INIQUITY” was already started at the time it was written by Paul , also Keep in Mind it is a LIE Which changes the IMAGE of a MAN into the IMAGE of HIM being a GOD .
Now ask yourself who is the “ONLY” person, “NOW” seated in the temple of God being “DISPLAYED”, as a GOD?, answer, it is Jesus who is NOW seated in the temple of God being “DISPLAYED” as a GOD. Not by him but by people like you and others here. This false teaching changes the “IMAGE” of the Man Jesus, to the IMAGE of a MAN OF SIN, Which Jesus will completely abolish at his return by the words of his own mouth, just a s it say. It will be Jesus himself who will set things straight, until them, He will continue to be Preached as A God sitting in the temple of God and worshiped as such.
So no matter what, those who know the truth about Jesus not being a God , it will not change the masses who believe he is a God, it will take Jesus himself to do that, and he will. Because God has sent a “deluding spirit” into all those who love not the truth that they might believe “THE LIE” ,that Jesus is a God, and is “displaying” himself as a “God” .
All who have the SPIRIT of TRUTH can easily see it. The LORD my GOD showed me this a long long time ago. So if you think i have any wisdom from GOD then please give this some honest consideration, it should make quite a difference in you understand about Jesus being a God. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
GeneB.1.Jesus is now not sitting in his temple.
That is not what I believe.Many christians do.Psalms 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand,
***until I make thine enemies thy footstool***.2.The christian world believe that Jesus is also the father.
this is not what I believe. I believe that Jesus was, and
now is the *Word of God*. And will come again as the
*Word of God*.(rev.19:13).
3.Revelation 1. is clear regarding the coming.
Every eye shall see him, and his armies in the clouds.
Not in the temple.
4.I can see what you are saying. The false prophet is going
to sit in the new temple as God: deceiving the many.
Mistaken him for Jesus/God.
5. I know the prophesies well enough, not to be fooled by a
cheap trick.
6.Many will not have the endurance to keep the
faith,because of fear and hunger,and persecutions.Jesus was the Word of God made flesh,and will return again as the Word of God. He is not just a man created to carry the spirit of God.Or we would not be told to eat his flesh.
The Word of God is spirit,and we need to eat that spirit which
is in the words of the bible.The more we study/seek, the more knowledge;the more we get to know God.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 18 2013,15:18) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 18 2013,17:41) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 18 2013,12:23) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 18 2013,15:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,10:09) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 16 2013,18:52) Instead of what is written it does not say “give me the glory I had when I was with you before the world began” even though you seem to think it does.
“Instead of what is written it does not say……….” ?You write in a very cryptic way. And I say “cryptic” to be polite.
Buy anyway, it DOES SAY the……….. glory………. I………….. HAD………… before………. the………… world……….. began.
The words “I HAD” are the key, Kerwin. Jesus couldn't have said, “the glory I HAD” unless Jesus actually HAD that glory at a previous time.
Twist it all you like. The facts are still the facts – whether or not you choose to believe them.
Mike ….. Wrong you conclusions are based not on the determinations of God, in his creative abilities. He knew what Jesus would do and who he would become, before he ever came into existence, and the Human glory he would bestow on him. Just as knew about King Cyrus and prophesied his life 200 years before his berth and the glory he would have bestowed on him also. Jesus was the first man in the plan and will of God to receive That glory afforded him, before he ever came into existence, just as Cyrus who had a different kind glory, afforded him by God before he was ever born, and even mankind in a general sense, has a foreordained Glory afforded him, from the foundations of the earth which he has not yet received.Your False teaching of Jesus' Preexistence only distorts, the intent that God had for mankind, and Jesus is just the First to have received it, but many will follow, he is simply the FIRSTBORN from mankind to have received that predestined GORY and HONOR, from God, and ALL things are now put under his feet as it shall be for all saved mankind, this is the plan and will of God for his complete human creation. IMO
Peace and love……………………gene
GeneB.You are confusing God's plan on the drawing board
before he started creating.We are all in his plan.
———-
Is Jesus just another God next to God?Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called,
***Wonderful***
**Counsellor******The mighty God***,
***The everlasting Father******The Prince of Peace***.
I am Alpha and Omega.
The First and the last.
I am He that lived and was dead.
I am alive forever more.1.He is apha and omega.
2.He is the first and the last.(he was before all creation).
3.He was living.
4.Then dead.
5.Then alive for ever more.wakeup.
WIt seems to me that you have fun to ask mike and I the same questions ,
Your miss understanding of scriptures becomes more and more evident ,
Day by day
T.Anyone can say what they like
but have no evidence.I can call you a thief as much as I like,
but as long as evidence is not provided,
I am a false accuser.wakeup.
wthe only thing you need to void anything at all is mainly A YES AND NO
OR FALSE OR TRUE AND PROVE ITQuote (terraricca @ Dec. 19 2013,07:11) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 18 2013,15:18) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 18 2013,17:41) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 18 2013,12:23) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 18 2013,15:55) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,10:09) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 16 2013,18:52) Instead of what is written it does not say “give me the glory I had when I was with you before the world began” even though you seem to think it does.
“Instead of what is written it does not say……….” ?You write in a very cryptic way. And I say “cryptic” to be polite.
Buy anyway, it DOES SAY the……….. glory………. I………….. HAD………… before………. the………… world……….. began.
The words “I HAD” are the key, Kerwin. Jesus couldn't have said, “the glory I HAD” unless Jesus actually HAD that glory at a previous time.
Twist it all you like. The facts are still the facts – whether or not you choose to believe them.
Mike ….. Wrong you conclusions are based not on the determinations of God, in his creative abilities. He knew what Jesus would do and who he would become, before he ever came into existence, and the Human glory he would bestow on him. Just as knew about King Cyrus and prophesied his life 200 years before his berth and the glory he would have bestowed on him also. Jesus was the first man in the plan and will of God to receive That glory afforded him, before he ever came into existence, just as Cyrus who had a different kind glory, afforded him by God before he was ever born, and even mankind in a general sense, has a foreordained Glory afforded him, from the foundations of the earth which he has not yet received.Your False teaching of Jesus' Preexistence only distorts, the intent that God had for mankind, and Jesus is just the First to have received it, but many will follow, he is simply the FIRSTBORN from mankind to have received that predestined GORY and HONOR, from God, and ALL things are now put under his feet as it shall be for all saved mankind, this is the plan and will of God for his complete human creation. IMO
Peace and love……………………gene
GeneB.You are confusing God's plan on the drawing board
before he started creating.We are all in his plan.
———-
Is Jesus just another God next to God?Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called,
***Wonderful***
**Counsellor******The mighty God***,
***The everlasting Father******The Prince of Peace***.
I am Alpha and Omega.
The First and the last.
I am He that lived and was dead.
I am alive forever more.1.He is apha and omega.
2.He is the first and the last.(he was before all creation).
3.He was living.
4.Then dead.
5.Then alive for ever more.wakeup.
WIt seems to me that you have fun to ask mike and I the same questions ,
Your miss understanding of scriptures becomes more and more evident ,
Day by day
T.Anyone can say what they like
but have no evidence.I can call you a thief as much as I like,
but as long as evidence is not provided,
I am a false accuser.wakeup.
wthe only thing you need to void anything at all is mainly A YES AND NO
OR FALSE OR TRUE AND PROVE IT
T.You are the accuser, but can not come forth with any evidence.
This makes you the guilty one.2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, ***false accusers***, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:
***for the accuser of our brethren is cast down***,
***which accused them before our God day and night***.I can see that same spirit in you.
wakeup.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 17 2013,22:29) Mike……if you believe it that way , then I do believe you got it right. Sorry I didn't, see where you said that, or I would have agreed with you.
I was just kidding with you about the atta boy, Gene.But yes, it seem that we understand that scripture the same way.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 17 2013,22:55) …….Cyrus who had a different kind glory, afforded him by God before he was ever born………
I agree that Cyrus was foreordained for a future glory even before he was born.I disagree that Cyrus, once he turned 20 years old, could say to God, “Glorify me now with the glory I HAD WITH YOU a hundred years ago.”
Because to me, it makes no sense for someone to speak about something THEY ACTUALLY HAD – if they themselves didn't actually HAVE that thing in the past.
If God has been holding a future glory for me, I still can't tell Him today to give me that glory I HAD….. because up to this point in my life, I haven't actually HAD that glory.
“Glory you have been holding for me” does NOT equal “Glory I HAD”.
Of course this is common sense for anyone who isn't driven along by their own preconceived notions.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,23:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,05:16) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,08:38) T, Humans are called gods in English as well as in Koine Greek and Hebrew.
Show me the human that is called a god in either the Hebrew or Greek scriptures.
Mike,You do not believe Jesus so why would you believe me?
Okay. Then just show me where JESUS called any human beings “god”.Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,23:51) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2013,05:15) I'm not sure which Bible you've been reading, but the words are, “the glory I WAS HAVING with you before the world was”.
Mike,None of the translations say having.
The imperfect tense of the Greek word literally means “the glory I WAS HAVING“. Most translate it as the past tense “the glory I HAD“.Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,23:51) John 17:5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
I am claiming that God had Jesus glory with him before the world was and Jesus was asking God to give him it. It is exactly what it states.
I know what you are claiming, Kerwin. It's just that you can't get to there from here. You'll never escape the words “I HAD“.Jesus doesn't say, “glorify me now with the glory YOU had“ – like you want to read it. The words “the glory I HAD“ will NEVER mean “the glory YOU HAD, AND HAVE BEEN HOLDING FOR ME“ – like you want them to mean.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,23:51) You on the other hand are adding your words to it by inserting the words “while I was” between “I had” and “with you”. Those words are not there.
But the phrase “with you” can easily mean “in your presence”, like the NRSV and MSG Bibles translate it. It can mean “alongside you”, or “by your side”, or “next to you”.Think this analogy out, Kerwin:
I look back fondly on all the fun I had WITH YOU when we were kids.
The most natural way to understand that statement is that a couple of kids had a lot of fun TOGETHER, ie: WITH EACH OTHER, or IN EACH OTHER'S PRESENCE, agreed?
And that is the way I understand “with you” in that verse……. the most natural way.
And I don't necessarily have to include the words “while I was” into my analogy for a meaning of “in each other's presence” to be conveyed, do I? No, because it is still the most natural meaning of those words.
At any rate, you can't run away from the words “I WAS HAVING” – no matter how swift and cunning you are. So you should stop trying.
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