What does it mean that Jesus came in the flesh?

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 17 2013,01:56)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 16 2013,12:05)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2013,00:54)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 12 2013,20:15)

Mike,

One that is not reborn in spirit will not inherit the kingdom of God. The only way to be reborn in spirit is by the power of acting through his Spirit.

It is like you missed a large part of message of the gospel.

Where is this “reborn IN spirit” coming from?

Jesus said, “spirit gives birth to spirit“, right?

So, when we are reborn of spirit (not “in spirit”), what will we be?

Mike,

It is paraphrase throughout Scripture. Nicodemus should have known of what Jesus was speaking as should anyone claiming to be a teacher.

Psalm 51:10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God;
and renew a right spirit within me.

Ephesians 4:23
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Ezekiel 11:19
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Ezekiel 18:31
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Ezekiel 36:26
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Without a new spirit you cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven.

As i have told him over and over Spirit are not bodies they are what is “IN” Bodies. You have it right Kerwin.

peace and love to you and yours Kerwin………………….gene

Oh you of little knowldge speaking about a new spirit,
and dont know what that new spirit is.

wakeup.

December 16, 2013 at 4:09 pm#363932

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 04 2013,14:51)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 04 2013,12:27)

This thread is a continuation of part of a conversation between Mike and me in the Who is the Word thread.

Miike wrote in response to my earlier words:

Quote

Kerwin, if God chose to cause Michael the archangel to be conceived in the womb of a human woman tomorrow, could we later say about Michael:

1. He was turned into flesh? YES or NO?
2. He became flesh? YES or NO?
3. He came in the flesh? YES or NO?
4. He came in the likeness of sinful flesh? YES or NO?
5. He partook in flesh? YES or NO?
6. He was made in the likeness of a human being? YES or NO?
7. He was transformed into flesh? YES or NO?
8. He was changed into a human being? YES or NO?
9. He had two different “beginnings”? YES or NO?

The only HONEST answer to all 9 questions is “YES”. So there is no contradiction in me believing that Jesus both “came in” and was “turned into” flesh.

So according to you it is honest to say that a woman both came in a dress and was transformed into a dress.

You believe it is honest to say both a creature transformed into a woman and her dress and came in a dress.

That is what I call nonsense.

Kerwin.

The Word was made,made, made.flesh.

From *flesh to flesh* as you say it is.
This alone is a strange, and contradicting iterpretation.

I say from spirit to flesh.Made from one thing to another thing.

wakeup.

Wakeup………there is no such thing as a Spirit “FLESH” The Spirit of GOD came to be “IN” the FLESH MAN JESUS. He was the ANOINTED “MAN” of GOD. He had the fullness of the Spirits of GOD , Every Jew knows that the Messiah was to be a pure human being, that comes from theirs own tribe.

You or anyone else have never seen a “WORD” as a Flesh being, but Words are certainly “IN” flesh beings, and that included Jesus also. Word are formed and come from their own thoughts (intellects), therefore they are Spirit.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene

December 16, 2013 at 4:10 pm#363933

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2013,01:58)

Quote

It is paraphrase throughout Scripture. Nicodemus should have known of what Jesus was speaking as should anyone claiming to be a teacher.

show the scriptures that says that Nicodemus knew

This Nicodemus reminds me of someone
named Terra.

wakeup.

December 16, 2013 at 4:50 pm#363936

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 16 2013,20:58)

Quote

It is paraphrase throughout Scripture. Nicodemus should have known of what Jesus was speaking as should anyone claiming to be a teacher.

show the scriptures that says that Nicodemus knew

John 3:10

December 16, 2013 at 5:03 pm#363938

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 16 2013,15:23)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 16 2013,15:34)

Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 16 2013,09:32)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 16 2013,14:12)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 14 2013,08:26)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2013,00:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 12 2013,05:19)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 12 2013,00:23)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 10 2013,23:42)

no gene ,just only one almighty true God and all the other gods are lesser gods but are very real

There are no lesser gods mentioned in Scripture but there is those called gods mentioned.

same thing ;there is no other God like Jehovah but there are many gods in heaven and on earth

To be called a god is not necessary being a god.

being a god mean being powerful ;and we know that no one is more powerful than Jehovah God the creator right yes

Maybe in the Hebrew language but we speak English and people are used to a god being one that is worshiped. In the passage for us their is only one God Paul is using it to mean a being that is worshiped.

Kerwin

I thought we all spoke fluent Hebrew and Greek on here?

Journey,

We simply read dictionaries and lexicons where others did the work for us. The Spirit then guides us to the truth.

Kerwin.

Yea; establishing your own way to seek the truth.
Disregarding Jesus advise,by going your own way.

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Yea; dont worry about all that,your own way is *THE* way.
Therefore there is no rest unto the soul.

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Isaiah 5:21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

Isaiah 5:5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:

Isaiah 5:6 And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.

wakeup.

Wakeup,

Woe are they who study scripture diligently but do not come to him they testify.

You seem to misunderstand the Spirit who even seeks to guide those that do not listen. Is it only in Scripture your hear God's Wisdom? Not according to Scripture for it is written:

Proverbs 8:1-3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 Doth not wisdom cry?
and understanding put forth her voice?
2 She standeth in the top of high places,
by the way in the places of the paths.
3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city,
at the coming in at the doors.

It is also written:

1 Corinthians 14:19
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

19 yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

So how do you learn if you hear 5 words you do not understand because you refuse to heed Wisdom's call and read a dictionary or lexicon to understand them?

Words are but letters on a page and in order to understand their spirit you must be taught by the Spirit. Humble yourself and become a student so that God may teach you in whatever way he chooses.

December 16, 2013 at 5:21 pm#363940

Participant

Wakeup,

Quote

Kerwin.

You have failed to address paradise,where the forgiven
thief will be.
This is where the flesh will inhabit,untill
all work is done by The king and his saints.
When the heavens and the earth is made new.
All will be in spirit form,after the white throne judgement. This is when the kingdom of heaven will come down to earth.
Seek the deep things of God.

wakeup.

That paradise is part of the Land of Dead that is in general called Hell in the AV of the KJB. Jesus also called it the Bosom of Abraham, Luke 16:23, and if I remember correctly it is even mentioned in the book of Enoch that we currently have access to. It is the place of the truly righteous. Jesus was telling the thief that both of them would be with the truly righteous in the Land of the Dead that day.

Hell will be thrown into the lake of fire on that day, Revelations 20:14.

There is another Paradise that has the Tree of Life in it.

December 16, 2013 at 5:26 pm#363941

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 16 2013,11:12)

K
But the scriptures are no different copy upon copy

The truth of God does not change but men without the Spirit are known to copy what is in their mind instead.

December 16, 2013 at 5:37 pm#363942

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 16 2013,09:45)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 16 2013,09:12)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 14 2013,08:26)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2013,00:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 12 2013,05:19)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 12 2013,00:23)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 10 2013,23:42)

no gene ,just only one almighty true God and all the other gods are lesser gods but are very real

There are no lesser gods mentioned in Scripture but there is those called gods mentioned.

same thing ;there is no other God like Jehovah but there are many gods in heaven and on earth

To be called a god is not necessary being a god.

being a god mean being powerful ;and we know that no one is more powerful than Jehovah God the creator right yes

i do not see any difference;either in Dutch or French,English ,

i still do not see where small gods are compere to God Jehovah

or mighty ones to almighty Jehovah

all looks the same to me,

there still is only one ALMIGHTY JEHOVAH GOD,

but that does not make the other smaller gods in comparison to the almighty Jehovah to be fake or false ,history can tell you that

There are differences. Some are more perceived that real which is why I stated “people were used to …”. The Hebrew and Koine Greek use their equivalent to god in many ways. Context is extremely important as the words change meaning according to the context, perhaps even more than English. Offhand your definition may well fit the use of elohim as in the sentence that “humanity was created a little lower that the elohim”. The evidence is that the sentence is talking about authority.

December 17, 2013 at 12:32 am#363981

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 15 2013,19:16)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2013,01:01)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 13 2013,12:09)

To answer you question the glory God has reserved for Jesus was not a body of any type.

Which scripture tells us that God had glory “reserved for” Jesus?

I know of John 17:5, which speaks of the glory Jesus himself HAD with God before the world began. I'm not familiar with the scripture that says God had “reserved” some glory for Jesus.

Mike,

I was paraphrasing the one you speak of as God had the glory that he predestined to be Jesus' before the world began. Jesus was asking for it and so he did not yet have it. He also did not say he surrendered it.

No Kerwin.

If someone says, “Give to me now this thing I HAD with you a long time ago” – then they are asking for something to be RETURNED to them.

It is a simple teaching, but your personal preferences insist that you add your own spin to it, and PRETEND Jesus was asking for something God had been HOLDING FOR HIM.

The words “I HAD” do NOT reflect your perversion of that verse.

December 17, 2013 at 12:38 am#363982

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 15 2013,19:05)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2013,00:54)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 12 2013,20:15)

Mike,

One that is not reborn in spirit will not inherit the kingdom of God. The only way to be reborn in spirit is by the power of acting through his Spirit.

It is like you missed a large part of message of the gospel.

Where is this “reborn IN spirit” coming from?

Jesus said, “spirit gives birth to spirit“, right?

So, when we are reborn of spirit (not “in spirit”), what will we be?

Mike,

It is paraphrase throughout Scripture. Nicodemus should have known of what Jesus was speaking as should anyone claiming to be a teacher.

Psalm 51:10
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God;
and renew a right spirit within me.

Oh, I see. So then if we read, “the Holy Spirit OF God”, we should CHANGE the “OF” to “IN”, because other scriptures say “IN” when they talk about spirit?

Okay Kerwin. Practice what you preach. I don't ever want to see you post “Holy Spirit OF God” on this site again. From now on, you must post “Holy Spirit IN God”, okay?

Come on man. Get real already.

Just because the word “in” is used in OTHER scriptures does NOT give us the right to CHANGE the word to “in” in a scripture that specifically says “born OF the spirit” – not “reborn IN spirit”.

Have you no shame at all? Don't you even get just the slightest cringe in your spine when you go around butchering God's written word to suit your own purposes?

December 17, 2013 at 12:43 am#363983

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 15 2013,09:41)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2013,06:09)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 13 2013,16:55)

Have you noticed how Mike avoids this scripture, like the plague……..

Gene,

Who is the “Son” that is called “O God” in Hebrews 1:8?

Who are the gods Jehovah assembles with in Psalm 82?

Mike………Hear is your answers.

Those aren't “answers”, Gene. They are a list of scriptures.

Try giving a real ANSWER this time.

December 17, 2013 at 12:45 am#363984

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 15 2013,19:44)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2013,00:57)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 13 2013,12:02)

To be called a god is not necessary being a god.

Why do you suppose Paul called Satan a god, Kerwin?

Because he wasn't one?

And why did God foretell that Jesus would be called “mighty god”? Because he wasn't going to be one?

Rest assured, if I call you an idiot, it is because I truly believe you are an idiot.

Mike,

Paul called Satan the God of this world.

And did Paul mean Satan was NOT the god of this world when he called him the god of this world?

Did Paul lie?

Kerwin, what is the scriptural definition of “god”? Or better yet, is “powerful spirit being” one of the scriptural definitions of “god”? YES or NO?

December 17, 2013 at 12:47 am#363985

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 15 2013,20:35)

David,

When speaking of being without flesh a certain person said they would be naked.

Yeah Kerwin.

That same person told us that God would NOT leave us naked in heaven, but would give us a heavenly tent to replace the earthly tent we lost.

Hmmmm………….

December 17, 2013 at 12:57 am#363987

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 15 2013,21:12)

Maybe in the Hebrew language but we speak English and people are used to a god being one that is worshiped.

And what about when loyal spirit sons of God are called gods in scripture, Kerwin? Is it with the intent that these angels are to be worshiped? Is there evidence of anyone ever worshipping Michael, or Gabriel? Yet they are gods nonetheless, right?

David said that God made man a little lower than the gods. Was David telling us that God made us lower than the beings who are all worshiped?

Kerwin, since you jumped the fence of reality and sanity, and ended up in Bizarro World with Gene on this one, why not address the questions I've been asking him forever?

1. Who is the Son that is called “O God” in Hebrews 1:8?

2. Who are the gods that Jehovah assembles with in Psalm 82?

(Before you answer, remember that the scriptures don't say, “kind of gods”, or “sort of gods”, or “false gods”, or “so-called gods”. The SCRIPTURES simply call these ones “el” and “theos” – the same as Jehovah is called.)

December 17, 2013 at 1:01 am#363988

Participant

Satan is the god of this world;
but he also is no true god.( he is truly not God).
He is just a creature created by God.
And so are other gods.
They are no gods, but seen by man as gods.
Many lords,seen by men as lords,but they are not true lords.
There is only one TRUE LORD AND GOD.

wakeup.

December 17, 2013 at 1:19 am#363992

Blocked

The SCRIPTURES call those beings “el” and “theos”, Wakeup. Those are the same Hebrew and Greek words used to describe Jehovah.

Now, if the SCRIPTURES simply say “el”, who are YOU to say, “Well, they're not REALLY elohim, but are only thought to be elohim by men”?

Nobody, that's who.

Besides, Jehovah Himself calls them “elohim” MANY, MANY times in scripture. And who are YOU to argue with Jehovah? Nobody, that's who.

The scriptural FACT of the matter is that a god is simply a powerful spirit being……. end of story. So when Jehovah Himself calls Satan “the god of Ekron”, He is calling him the powerful spirit being who rules over the people of Ekron.

And when scripture calls Jehovah the MOST HIGH god, then we are being taught that, among the MANY gods, Jehovah is the HIGHEST.

And when scripture says Jehovah is the god OF gods, we are being taught that all these other powerful spirit beings have a God of their own, and that one is Jehovah.

It's really not hard. But too many people listen to MEN instead of the scriptures.

December 17, 2013 at 1:52 am#363995

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2013,11:19)

The SCRIPTURES call those beings “el” and “theos”, Wakeup. Those are the same Hebrew and Greek words used to describe Jehovah.

Now, if the SCRIPTURES simply say “el”, who are YOU to say, “Well, they're not REALLY elohim, but are only thought to be elohim by men”?

Nobody, that's who.

Besides, Jehovah Himself calls them “elohim” MANY, MANY times in scripture. And who are YOU to argue with Jehovah? Nobody, that's who.

And when scripture calls Jehovah the MOST HIGH god, then we are being taught that, among the MANY gods, Jehovah is the HIGHEST.

And when scripture says Jehovah is the god OF gods, we are being taught that all these other powerful spirit beings have a God of their own, and that one is Jehovah.

It's really not hard. But too many people listen to MEN instead of the scriptures.

Mikeb.

You dont seem to understand.
Jesus said: only one is your Father in heaven.

Brahma is an elohim/father to many.
Shiva is an elohim/father to many.
Krishna is an elohim/father to many.
Horus is an elohim/father to many.
Satan is a god/elohim to many.
As a matter of fact it is HE that introduced those elohims.
HE is the father of them elohims.

But we are not the many,we should know that there is only one that can carry the word Elohim.
God calls them gods of of men,of which satan is their father.

We need to concentrate on the ONE ELOHIM.
HE is the creator of all, and is our only God.
Why should we be concern about other gods?
All life comes from YHWH.Only HE can give life,
and we need to seek that life.

wakeup.

December 17, 2013 at 1:52 am#363996