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Wakeup………Can't you see you as well as nearly all Christendom are “forcing the text to say what in fact it is not saying , those Prophets were sent to the Literal Prince of Tyre and the Literal King of Tyre and also the King of Babylon, they are all Proverbs (or parables which are fictions illustrations) used to describe the Hearts of those rulers, God moved on all those kingdoms and brought them to desolation. History even [proves it also. Making scripture say what in Fact it does not specifically say is what false Christianity does. We should not add to or force text to say what it is not saying. Anyway I have explained it as i understand it Wakeup.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 06 2013,09:11) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 03 2013,10:07) PS……..Still waiting for my answer to this scripture, 1 Cor 8:4…> we know that there is no idols in the world and that there is “NO” God but “ONE”. thought you would have figure some way around it by now, I am sure if you could have you would have by now. IMO
Gene,Who is the “Son” that is called “O God” in Hebrews 1:8?
Mike ……..That Son is Jesus the one who GOD was “IN”
Hmmm………..“About the Son, He says, 'Your throne, O God, will last forever.' “
And YOUR take is: About the Son, GOD says, “Your throne, O God inside of Jesus doing the works, will last forever.”
So God is saying this about the Son, but God is really talking to HIMSELF as the one dwelling inside of the Son?
God is telling the version of Himself that is inside Jesus that His throne will last for ever, because God set the God inside of Jesus higher than His companions?
Come on, Gene. Get real. See Wakeup? This is why I said what I said about Gene in the other thread. Who can take this guy seriously?
Ephesians 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
wakeup.
Mike,
Quote So you're saying that Jesus no longer has a soul at all, since the soul is in the blood, and Jesus now consists of only flesh and bone, but not blood? No, That is what you think Scripture is saying.
According a literal interpretation of Scripture the animal soul is in the blood. Another passage teaches us that Rebecca's soul departed with her death. Taking both of them literal then it would follow that the soul no longer is in the blood after an animal dies. The aparent flaw with that literal interpretation is that the passages speaking of the soul being in the blood are speaking of dead animals. So either Rebecca's soul was not departing or she died or the souls of dead animals are not litteraly in their blood.
None of this disproves what I said about Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15. Let us instead look at the posibility blood is a standin for the animal soul and Paul following the same pattern used it to make his point about the kind of body that would inherit the kingdom of God. He already told us the body was of the soul as compared to the one to come which was if the Spirit. The same body is of the earth as oposed to the one that commes which is of heaven.
Quote From my reading today:
Job 11:20 NET
“But the eyes of the wicked fail, and escape eludes them; their one hope is to breathe their last.”The actual Hebrew says, their one hope is the breathing out of the soul.
Does that mean we breathe out all of our blood when we die?
That sounds like it confirms that Rebecca's soul, as an example of humanity, departed as she died. I have no idea why translators hid that with their choice of translation.
Quote So if Paul is teaching that the natural BODY will be destroyed, and we will receive a new, spiritual BODY – then he is obviously talking about the MATERIAL of which those bodies are comprised. I am of the opinion that Paul is teaching that the natural body of this corrupt world will transform into the Spiritual body of the world to come. As I pointed out earlier there is nowhere in Scripture where it literally states that only a spirit body can inherit the kingdom of heaven. That is an assumed teaching that probably begun by the Gnostics.
Quote The former is comprised of natural stuff, like the dust of the earth….. and the latter will be comprised of spiritual stuff – like spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:47
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:47
American Standard Version (ASV)47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven.
Anything God created is natural but I assume you mean not of this world and from it first creation to now. I have no idea what brought you to that conclusion if I am correct. I do know ghosts are composed of spiritual stuff as they are souls without bodies.
There is nothing though that shows that the body to come is not flesh and bone.
Matthew 10:28 King James Version
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
So is the body that is destroyed with the soul in hell the same kind of body that humans can destroy?
1 Thessalonians 5:23 King James Version
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
It is the body as well as the soul and spirit that are preserved blameless.
We are shown that Jesus was planted in his mortal body and the body that came up was his flesh and bone body. It is the only body we are in any way told about being raised from the dead. We are told even the wicked dead are resurected and these resurrected dead have their bodies tossed into Gehenna to be desroyed with their souls. Jesus' body was preserved blameless even as he sacrificed his mortality and was resurected in a flesh and bone body.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 07 2013,22:14) Ephesians 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: wakeup.
wyou have proven that you have no light ,in Christ ,your teachings and your questions testify to that,
just because you received kisses from friends and relatives does not make your understanding more truthful,
you have to prove that what you say is true to the scriptures all the scriptures ,and prove it to other that it is so even if they do not believe it ,but they should not be able to refute with scriptures what you say,in a honest manner ,at least not with unbroken scriptures or unanswered questions
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 08 2013,01:10) Mike, Quote So you're saying that Jesus no longer has a soul at all, since the soul is in the blood, and Jesus now consists of only flesh and bone, but not blood? No, That is what you think Scripture is saying.
According a literal interpretation of Scripture the animal soul is in the blood. Another passage teaches us that Rebecca's soul departed with her death. Taking both of them literal then it would follow that the soul no longer is in the blood after an animal dies. The aparent flaw with that literal interpretation is that the passages speaking of the soul being in the blood are speaking of dead animals. So either Rebecca's soul was not departing or she died or the souls of dead animals are not litteraly in their blood.
None of this disproves what I said about Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15. Let us instead look at the posibility blood is a standin for the animal soul and Paul following the same pattern used it to make his point about the kind of body that would inherit the kingdom of God. He already told us the body was of the soul as compared to the one to come which was if the Spirit. The same body is of the earth as oposed to the one that commes which is of heaven.
Quote From my reading today:
Job 11:20 NET
“But the eyes of the wicked fail, and escape eludes them; their one hope is to breathe their last.”The actual Hebrew says, their one hope is the breathing out of the soul.
Does that mean we breathe out all of our blood when we die?
That sounds like it confirms that Rebecca's soul, as an example of humanity, departed as she died. I have no idea why translators hid that with their choice of translation.
Quote So if Paul is teaching that the natural BODY will be destroyed, and we will receive a new, spiritual BODY – then he is obviously talking about the MATERIAL of which those bodies are comprised. I am of the opinion that Paul is teaching that the natural body of this corrupt world will transform into the Spiritual body of the world to come. As I pointed out earlier there is nowhere in Scripture where it literally states that only a spirit body can inherit the kingdom of heaven. That is an assumed teaching that probably begun by the Gnostics.
Quote The former is comprised of natural stuff, like the dust of the earth….. and the latter will be comprised of spiritual stuff – like spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:47
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:47
American Standard Version (ASV)47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven.
Anything God created is natural but I assume you mean not of this world and from it first creation to now. I have no idea what brought you to that conclusion if I am correct. I do know ghosts are composed of spiritual stuff as they are souls without bodies.
There is nothing though that shows that the body to come is not flesh and bone.
Matthew 10:28 King James Version
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
So is the body that is destroyed with the soul in hell the same kind of body that humans can destroy?
1 Thessalonians 5:23 King James Version
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
It is the body as well as the soul and spirit that are preserved blameless.
We are shown that Jesus was planted in his mortal body and the body that came up was his flesh and bone body. It is the only body we are in any way told about being raised from the dead. We are told even the wicked dead are resurected and these resurrected dead have their bodies tossed into Gehenna to be desroyed with their souls. Jesus' body was preserved blameless even as he sacrificed his mortality and was resurected in a flesh and bone body.
kdeparted soul only means ; that live as gone out of the body
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2013,03:07) And YOUR take is: About the Son, GOD says, “Your throne, O God inside of Jesus doing the works, will last forever.”
Mike……….You preach till you blue in the face, that there are all kinds of GOD'S, so i ask you what does this mean to you, O Wise One. we know that there is no idols in the world and that there is “NO” God, but “ONE>Why sneak around and not answer that? You want us to believe you know what you are talking about but can't answer that scripture, why is that Mike? Are you afraid it might expose you for what you are, a person who has to twist scriptures and force text to say what in fact they are not saying?
Now hear the words of Jesus, “NOT ME” Mike, Just another scripture you do not believe or truly accept, or you would know the truth about your question to me.
the son of man can do “NOTHING” of “HIMSELF” the Father who is “IN” me “HE” does the “WORKS”
And you say we cant take Gene seriously, it appears you are the one we should not take seriously, being you have to twisted and forced the words of God and Jesus and the Apostles to meet you false dogmas of all kind of other Gods, and are now saying, it is not true that, God was truly “IN” Jesus doing the works. Not to even mention your false assumptions of, “Spirits are Bodies”, teachings. IMO
Talking about who we should not take seriously, that is a joke at best if you ask me Mike.
peace and love ………………..gene
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2013,14:04) departed soul only means ; that live as gone out of the body
Terricca……..I agree with that also, i believe a Soul consists of a body and Spirit in it, and you can not have a LIVING SOUL without a BODY.peace and love………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2013,08:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2013,03:07) And YOUR take is: About the Son, GOD says, “Your throne, O God inside of Jesus doing the works, will last forever.”
Mike……….You preach till you blue in the face……..
Is that a “YES”, Gene? Do you really believe that God was talking to the version of Himself that was inside of Jesus in Hebrews 1:8?Was God telling the version of Himself that was inside of Jesus that his throne would be forever because God set the God inside of Jesus up higher than his companions?
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 07 2013,20:23) Kerwin's conclusion: ALL THE HOST OF HEAVEN IS FLESH AND BONE.
wakeup.
It's a ridiculous conclusion made from a man who has PERSONAL WISHES for Jesus to have NEVER been anything other than exactly like the rest of us.I mean, he's going on about “animal souls” as a distraction – knowing full well that Paul wasn't talking about the resurrection of animals in 1 Cor 15.
Kerwin, the Hebrew word “nephesh” is used in scripture to describe the whole person (the ONLY definition Gene accepts – despite clear scriptural evidence of other meanings), the soul alone, and is also used with a meaning of “life” – as in the animal point you are trying to use.
The LIFE of an animal is in its blood, Kerwin. (Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 17:11, 14, etc.)
Will you pretend that the word ALWAYS means “soul”, and nothing else? If not, then don't try to force a meaning of “soul” in the verses above just so you can avoid the true points I'm making about 1 Cor 15.
Mike……….Just answer this, what does this mean to you, and quit skipping around it. the son of man can do “NOTHING” of “HIMSELF”,the Father who is “IN” Me “HE” does the “WORKS” give us you rendition of that Mike , what does that mean to you and quite skirting the issue, by making stupid reply's. WAS GOD THE FATHER ACTUALLY 'IN' JESUS MIKE? yes or no?.
peace and love…………………………gene
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 07 2013,13:10) I am of the opinion that Paul is teaching that the natural body of this corrupt world will transform into the Spiritual body of the world to come.
But you need to switch out “body” for “PERSON”, Kerwin.Because a PERSON can be spiritual – in the sense you mean it, ie: righteous with God. A BODY, in and of itself, does not have the ability to be “spiritually aligned with God”.
And since Paul is talking about the BODIES of the resurrected, your point is moot.
For example, Satan is a “spiritual being”. Now does this mean Satan is “right with God”? Or does it mean he is a “spirit”? (Ephesians 6:12)
At any rate, I don't really care to discuss your nonsense on this topic anymore. We have both said what we needed to say, and Wakeup has summed up your nonsensical belief in a short statement. If you want to believe the host of heaven are comprised of flesh and bone (but no blood), then that is your choice.
But don't expect me to get bogged down in your nonsense.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2013,09:14) Mike……….Just answer this, what does this mean to you, and quit skipping around it. the son of man can do “NOTHING” of “HIMSELF”,the Father who is “IN” Me “HE” does the “WORKS” give us you rendition of that Mike , what does that mean to you and quite skirting the issue, by making stupid reply's. WAS GOD THE FATHER ACTUALLY 'IN' JESUS MIKE? yes or no?. peace and love…………………………gene
Was your answer to Hebrews 1:8 a “YES” Gene?Do you really believe that God was talking to the version of Himself that was inside of Jesus in Hebrews 1:8?
Was God telling the version of Himself that was inside of Jesus that his throne would be forever because God set the God inside of Jesus up higher than his companions?
Just tell me if you DO believe God was talking to the version of HIMSELF that was in Jesus or NOT.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 09 2013,02:00) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2013,08:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2013,03:07) And YOUR take is: About the Son, GOD says, “Your throne, O God inside of Jesus doing the works, will last forever.”
Mike……….You preach till you blue in the face……..
Is that a “YES”, Gene? Do you really believe that God was talking to the version of Himself that was inside of Jesus in Hebrews 1:8?Was God telling the version of Himself that was inside of Jesus that his throne would be forever because God set the God inside of Jesus up higher than his companions?
Mike………What you fail to understand is the Word God is not a Person it is a relationship to a Person, that is why it is nearly always proceeded by the word Our , or their, or the God of this or the God of that. or my God , your God, the God of Israel , Now who is that God of OURS, it is the LORD He is our GOD, Get it?The LORD or YAHWEH, is the “PERSON that is OUR GOD. Get it?”, God has seven Spirit and they dwell in Jesus, so the fullness of God dwelt in bodily form, because of that indwelling, God was Present “IN” Jesus. When are you ever going to understand that, But that indwelling never made Jesus HIMSELF the GOD that was “IN” him.
peace and love……………………………gene
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 08 2013,08:23) Kerwin's conclusion: ALL THE HOST OF HEAVEN IS FLESH AND BONE.
wakeup.
Wakeup,At this point I am not speaking of the hosts of heaven. I am speaking of the resurrected body and the fact that nowhere in Scripture does is it actually written than only the spirit may enter the kingdom of heaven. That teaching the tradition of mere men.
What is written that flesh and blood may not enter the kingdom of God. Do you believe what is written by God or instead what men say God's word mean?
If you believe what is written by God then you believe that flesh and blood together cannot enter the reign of God according to the literal writing. There is nothing that state that either one without the other can enter the kingdom of heaven.
I tried to go further with Mike and it seems it was too much for him to handle. For that reason I will handle this lesser number of points.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 08 2013,21:18) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 07 2013,13:10) I am of the opinion that Paul is teaching that the natural body of this corrupt world will transform into the Spiritual body of the world to come.
But you need to switch out “body” for “PERSON”, Kerwin.Because a PERSON can be spiritual – in the sense you mean it, ie: righteous with God. A BODY, in and of itself, does not have the ability to be “spiritually aligned with God”.
And since Paul is talking about the BODIES of the resurrected, your point is moot.
For example, Satan is a “spiritual being”. Now does this mean Satan is “right with God”? Or does it mean he is a “spirit”? (Ephesians 6:12)
At any rate, I don't really care to discuss your nonsense on this topic anymore. We have both said what we needed to say, and Wakeup has summed up your nonsensical belief in a short statement. If you want to believe the host of heaven are comprised of flesh and bone (but no blood), then that is your choice.
But don't expect me to get bogged down in your nonsense.
Mike,You are the one that claims only spirit body can enter the kingdom of heaven when that is not written in Scripture. It is a tradition of mere men. You have not tested it or you would know it is not written.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 King James Version
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Scripture sees that all three parts of a human being can be blamed for sin. If that was not so it would not say that all three should be preserved blameless.
This is another place that is speaks of the spiritual man, the soulish (animal, natural, sensual) man, and the physical man. Three creations that are combined to make a human. Another place is Mark 12:30. Here you are instructed to love God with all your strength instead of all your body.
Mark 12:30
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)30 and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
k
Quote What is written that flesh and blood may not enter the kingdom of God. Do you believe what is written by God or instead what men say God's word mean? let hear it ,i am all ears
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 09 2013,10:29) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 08 2013,08:23) Kerwin's conclusion: ALL THE HOST OF HEAVEN IS FLESH AND BONE.
wakeup.
Wakeup,At this point I am not speaking of the hosts of heaven. I am speaking of the resurrected body and the fact that nowhere in Scripture does is it actually written than only the spirit may enter the kingdom of heaven. That teaching the tradition of mere men.
What is written that flesh and blood may not enter the kingdom of God. Do you believe what is written by God or instead what men say God's word mean?
If you believe what is written by God then you believe that flesh and blood together cannot enter the reign of God according to the literal writing. There is nothing that state that either one without the other can enter the kingdom of heaven.
I tried to go further with Mike and it seems it was too much for him to handle. For that reason I will handle this lesser number of points.
Kerwin.In that case; you judge which scripture is written by man and which is actually is the Word of God.
Take what suits you best.
wakeup.
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