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Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,19:23) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 28 2013,12:15) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,15:47) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 28 2013,06:23) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,07:29) Wakeup, Jesus is never given the power to be equal to God as he is always subject to God but he has been given authority over everything in heaven and earth, even to choosing those to whom the God's Spirit is given.
It is God's Spirit that gives life to those that are dead spiritually and to those dead bodily. Jesus is the only way to obtain that Spirit. It can only be obtained by obeying all of the message he taught.
Kerwin.Quote
**Jesus is never given the power to be equal to God**as he is always subject to God but he has been given authority over everything in heaven and earth, even to choosing those to whom the God's Spirit is given.
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery ***to be equal with God***:
wakeup.
Wakeup,Let us hypothesize that:
Philippians 2:6
American Standard Version (ASV)6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
means
Philippians 2:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
in which case robbery is defines as something to be grasped in the AKJV.
To test it we go to the definitions of the word in the origional language and find that the Koine Greek transliterated word is “harpagmos” and means “an object of eager desire”. The definition we have found seems to be an archaic definition of robbery.
Kerwin.You seem to be visiting the library to interpret the
scriptures to your own satisfaction.Safe the trouble; buy your own library.
wakeup.
Wakeup,I simply did a walk-through to determine what the obviously archaic words of the AKJV mean using the assumption that it was a paraphrase of the same passage of the American Standard Version and then used the original language to test if my hypothesis was true. There is still a possibility the Textus Receptus is different but I do not have access to it in the same way as the more modern Koine Greek version.
Languages change and what a word meant a few centuries ago may longer be what it means today. Putting a meaning of this age to a word of another age can lead to misinformation. Be careful.
Kerwin.You are in a dilemma indeed.
Wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,07:38) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2013,00:46) k Quote We must conceived and born the new man and that is a change of spirit and not flesh. Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”by doing what Christ says in the 24 you are born again ,but this has to be true until the end of your earthly life.
T,And beyond but yes.
Kerwin.Was Jesus born again?
If so;when?wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 28 2013,16:07) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,19:23) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 28 2013,12:15) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,15:47)
Wakeup,Let us hypothesize that:
Philippians 2:6
American Standard Version (ASV)6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
means
Philippians 2:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
in which case robbery is defines as something to be grasped in the AKJV.
To test it we go to the definitions of the word in the origional language and find that the Koine Greek transliterated word is “harpagmos” and means “an object of eager desire”. The definition we have found seems to be an archaic definition of robbery.
Kerwin.You seem to be visiting the library to interpret the
scriptures to your own satisfaction.Safe the trouble; buy your own library.
wakeup.
Wakeup,I simply did a walk-through to determine what the obviously archaic words of the AKJV mean using the assumption that it was a paraphrase of the same passage of the American Standard Version and then used the original language to test if my hypothesis was true. There is still a possibility the Textus Receptus is different but I do not have access to it in the same way as the more modern Koine Greek version.
Languages change and what a word meant a few centuries ago may longer be what it means today. Putting a meaning of this age to a word of another age can lead to misinformation. Be careful.
Kerwin.You are in a dilemma indeed.
Wakeup.
Wakeup,I am in no dilemma, as I like Paul, would rather hear five words I know I understand than ten thousand I think I understand, 1 Corinthians 14:19.
It is humility and acknowledging I have more to learn.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 28 2013,16:11) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,07:38) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2013,00:46) k Quote We must conceived and born the new man and that is a change of spirit and not flesh. Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”by doing what Christ says in the 24 you are born again ,but this has to be true until the end of your earthly life.
T,And beyond but yes.
Kerwin.Was Jesus born again?
If so;when?wakeup.
Wakeup,A human cannot enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of the spirit. Jesus received the Spirit before he was conceived in the flesh as he lived by it at least from the time he was able to be tempted by evil. He, unlike all other humans, did not need to be renewed (reborn) as he never sinned.
Those that live by the Spirit do not sin, even though they continue to be tempted as is common to humanity.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 29 2013,04:50) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 28 2013,16:11) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,07:38) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2013,00:46) k Quote We must conceived and born the new man and that is a change of spirit and not flesh. Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”by doing what Christ says in the 24 you are born again ,but this has to be true until the end of your earthly life.
T,And beyond but yes.
Kerwin.Was Jesus born again?
If so;when?wakeup.
Wakeup,A human cannot enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of the spirit. Jesus received the Spirit before he was conceived in the flesh as he lived by it at least from the time he was able to be tempted by evil. He, unlike all other humans, did not need to be renewed (reborn) as he never sinned.
Those that live by the Spirit do not sin, even though they continue to be tempted as is common to humanity.
Kerwin.This means that he was not born again.
He was just born ones.wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 29 2013,04:40) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 28 2013,16:07) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,19:23) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 28 2013,12:15) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2013,15:47)
Wakeup,Let us hypothesize that:
Philippians 2:6
American Standard Version (ASV)6 who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
means
Philippians 2:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
in which case robbery is defines as something to be grasped in the AKJV.
To test it we go to the definitions of the word in the origional language and find that the Koine Greek transliterated word is “harpagmos” and means “an object of eager desire”. The definition we have found seems to be an archaic definition of robbery.
Kerwin.You seem to be visiting the library to interpret the
scriptures to your own satisfaction.Safe the trouble; buy your own library.
wakeup.
Wakeup,I simply did a walk-through to determine what the obviously archaic words of the AKJV mean using the assumption that it was a paraphrase of the same passage of the American Standard Version and then used the original language to test if my hypothesis was true. There is still a possibility the Textus Receptus is different but I do not have access to it in the same way as the more modern Koine Greek version.
Languages change and what a word meant a few centuries ago may longer be what it means today. Putting a meaning of this age to a word of another age can lead to misinformation. Be careful.
Kerwin.You are in a dilemma indeed.
Wakeup.
Wakeup,I am in no dilemma, as I like Paul, would rather hear five words I know I understand than ten thousand I think I understand, 1 Corinthians 14:19.
It is humility and acknowledging I have more to learn.
Kerwin.Just by not having that faith in God,
Just by not believing that God can; and has
given us his Word in print,that we can depend on.
Is a sin.
Your way of seeking will only lead you to a dead end.wakeup.
Wakeup,
Yes, Jesus was born of the Spirit the first time and so unlike other men does not need to be born again.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 29 2013,05:52) Wakeup, Yes, Jesus was born of the Spirit the first time and so unlike other men does not need to be born again.
Kerwin.When you are born of the spirit;you are spirit.(Jesus words).
Was Jesus flesh or spirit?
You said that Jesus was born of the spirit,and no need to be born again.
But he was made flesh,and not glorified flesh.Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the **firstborn** of every creature:(BORN AGAIN).
wakeup.
Wakeup,
I choose not to lack knowledge and that choice is in accordance with God's word. Your choice is not the same and those who live by the Spirit do not choose to lack the true understanding of God's words.
Proverbs 15:14
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge:
but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.Proverbs 18:15
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)15 The heart of the prudent getteth knowledge;
and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge.Wakeup,
Jesus words are that flesh is conceived of flesh and spirit of spirit. A man has a body of flesh and walks according to a spirit, whether it be of Satan or God. Those that walk by the spirit of Satan are like their father and fall short of God's glory but those who walk by the Spirit of God do not sin even though tempted as is common to man. Galatians 5:25, 2 Corinthians 12:18, Romans 8:4, and even Ephesians 2:2 tells you this. Jesus' words are about seeking first God's righteousness and kingdom.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 29 2013,06:03) Wakeup, I choose not to lack knowledge and that choice is in accordance with God's word. Your choice is not the same and those who live by the Spirit do not choose to lack the true understanding of God's words.
Proverbs 15:14
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge:
but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.Proverbs 18:15
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)15 The heart of the prudent getteth knowledge;
and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge.
Kerwin.You are seeking knowledge from men.
You would be helpless without your dictionary.
The Holy Spirit is not what you are seeking.
You dont consider Him your teacher.wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 29 2013,06:13) Wakeup, Jesus words are that flesh is conceived of flesh and spirit of spirit. A man has a body of flesh and walks according to a spirit, whether it be of Satan or God. Those that walk by the spirit of Satan are like their father and fall short of God's glory but those who walk by the Spirit of God do not sin even though tempted as is common to man. Galatians 5:25, 2 Corinthians 12:18, Romans 8:4, and even Ephesians 2:2 tells you this. Jesus' words are about seeking first God's righteousness and kingdom.
Kerwin.Quote
Jesus words are that flesh is conceived of flesh and spirit of spirit.That's exactly it:
Flesh contains flesh. Spirit contains spirit.
There is a difference between the two.
There is no such as glorified flesh/spirit flesh.
Or spirit running through the vains instead of blood.wakeup.
Wakeup,
Are you that unaware of Wisdom and where she speaks. Do you not realize that God speaks even out of the mouths of fools and unbelievers. Did the high priest believe when he prophesied about Jesus giving his life for his people? Did not men write Scripture and yet God speak though those men.
God speaks though who he chooses and not who you choose. If you are guided by the Spirit then you will read man's words in Scripture or out and the Spirit will teach you. If you are not guided by the spirit then you will not hear God's word no matter where you listen for they will be hidden from you.
Wakeup,
You are not hearing. The spirit has nothing to do with whether a human is non-corporeal or not, it is about obtaining that which any godly human yearns for. It is about putting the old man to death and becoming a new man in Christ. Those who live by the Spirit of God are the new man while those who live by the spirit of this world are the old man.
Put you eye on the goal and that goal is to seek God's righteousness for in so doing all else will be given you.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 29 2013,06:28) Wakeup, Are you that unaware of Wisdom and where she speaks. Do you not realize that God speaks even out of the mouths of fools and unbelievers. Did the high priest believe when he prophesied about Jesus giving his life for his people? Did not men write Scripture and yet God speak though those men.
God speaks though who he chooses and not who you choose. If you are guided by the Spirit then you will read man's words in Scripture or out and the Spirit will teach you. If you are not guided by the spirit then you will not hear God's word no matter where you listen for they will be hidden from you.
Kerwin.That's what you should be doing.
Let the Holy Spirit teach you,by prayer and supplications.
And not let your dictionary be your guide.wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 29 2013,06:37) Wakeup, You are not hearing. The spirit has nothing to do with whether a human is non-corporeal or not, it is about obtaining that which any godly human yearns for. It is about putting the old man to death and becoming a new man in Christ. Those who live by the Spirit of God are the new man while those who live by the spirit of this world are the old man.
Put you eye on the goal and that goal is to seek God's righteousness for in so doing all else will be given you.
Kerwin.Are you spirit?
Can you walk through walls like Jesus did?
Jesus had the spirit,but did not walk through walls
before his resurection.
He could walk on water,but that is a miracle.
He could only appear and disappear *after* his resurrection.
Because he is born again.You claim to be born again;can you do that?
wakeup.
Wakeup,
You act as if your ears are clogged and you eyes are blindfolded as you do not want to understand what God teaches you. God uses who and what he uses and your refusal to listen is on you. If you choose to be so arrogant as to not use a dictionary to discover the meaning of a word you do not understand or to test the spirit of what you hear or believe then that will be counted against you.
Is it that you do not trust the Spirit to lead you true?
There is no better instruction than seek to be righteous as God is righteous. In the gospel is that righteousness you are to seek.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 29 2013,06:51) Wakeup, You act as if your ears are clogged and you eyes are blindfolded as you do not want to understand what God teaches you. God uses who and what he uses and your refusal to listen is on you. If you choose to be so arrogant as to not use a dictionary to discover the meaning of a word you do not understand or to test the spirit of what you hear or believe then that will be counted against you.
Is it that you do not trust the Spirit to lead you true?
There is no better instruction than seek to be righteous as God is righteous. In the gospel is that righteousness you are to seek.
Kerwin.God will never teach confusion.
God will never contradict His own Words.
You have been contradicting scripture after scripture,
and seeking somewhere else to justify your interpretations.You should plainly accept what the scripture says.
And stick to the scriptures.wakeup.
Wakeup,
I do not have to be non-corporeal to walk through walls I just require hypothetical super advanced technology or God's factual authority to do it as walls are not as solid as they appear and neither is my body.
You do not need to be non-corporeal to appear and disappear as possibly super advanced science and definitely God's power can accomplish it.
Why does Scripture declare Balaam could not see the angel that opposed him while his donkey could? According to Scripture it is because God chose to hide his resister from him but not the ass, Numbers 22:31.
Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth means he can:
T/F command the particles of a wall as well as of his body to let him pass through.
T/F command the photons of light to go around him instead of reflect of him.Wakeup,
I do not know what conversation you have been involved in but I constantly use Scripture and instead of relying on my own interpretation I seek to learn the truth using whatever tool God chooses to give me. You seem to seldom use Scripture and to rely heavily on your understanding by rejecting the tools God chooses to give you.
You are like the man on a roof top during a flood that prays for succor but reject the rescuers God sends to them because they are men. In the end his choices leads to death even though he prayed.
Start seeking first God's righteousness and his kingdom and all else will be given to you.
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