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Kerwin…..I TEND TO take most of my means from texts written in ou bibles, and try to sum them up to get a true understanding of there meanings from the context of how they are used. For instance GOD SAID HE WAS ISRAELS HUSBAND, AND HE DEVORCED HER, BECAUSE OF HER IDOLATRY AND FORNICATIONS AND HE CAST HER OUT OF THE LAND HE GAVE HER. IT WAS ALL BECAUSE OF HER UNFAITHFULNESS TO HIM, SHE BROKE THERE COVENANT SHE MADE WITH GOD. It wasn’t because of her MINOR sins and iniquites that he devorced her, but because of her comitting ADULTERY by fornicating around with other nations and saying that there IDOLS is what gave them all they had, it provked God to anger and made him jealous and he devorced her and took away all he had given her and cast her out, because she was a unfaithfull wife. But he still loves her as many do even if their wife was unfaithful to them and they devorce them.
There is no reasonto make it complicated, the botton line is A DEVORCE IS SIMPLY, BREAKING OF A COVENANT, NO MATTER WHICH PARTY IS AT FAULT, THE RESULTS ARE THE SAME. THE COVENANT VOWS ARE BROKEN. A seperation takes place and what was one, now becomes two. IMO
Exactly. And that marriage/ covenant remains as long as both people live. If one dies, the other is then free to remarry. But, the man must not marry a divorced woman, according to scripture. (and is it ALSO that the woman cannot marry a divorced man unless he was innocent).
Hi,
Jesus was sent to Israel and he clarified their Law for them and tightened up some features.
That is not the Law that the children of God are under.
That is the law of love.
Hi,
Paul and Peter clarified the law of love.
Peter showed that a partner can evangelise the other by living love.
Paul showed that anointed people should behave at a higher standard than those they mingle with in the world.
He said they should continue as they were when first called.
He said from now on the married should be prepared to live as if they are not.
But it is better to marry than to burn with lust.
The marriage bed is sacred.
But every failing is resolvable before God and wisdom is accessible to all.
Gene,
You told Miia that a unmarried man that has sex with another man’s wife is not an adulturer but I am told by the BLB Lexicon that:
to commit adultery with, have unlawful intercourse with another’s wife
The translators are supposed to be experts at Koine Greek so they should consider both Scriptural and non-Scriptural sources to determine all the meanings that apply in Scripture. That means that their claims should be based on more evidence than you have available.
Like with humans in general, there biases may lead them astray. Still it wisest to make a case that is so.
Miia,
I do not see check the meaning of the word in the original language as being complicated.
Jesus intentionally made some of what he said complicated by speaking in parables. He then told his student adherents to strive hard to enter into the narrow gates.
Complications is not something to be feared but vain complications are to be avoided. It takes wisdom to judge the difference.
Miia.
Jesus was not making a command with his statement. He was instead stating a fact. A person that lives by the Spirit will act out of love and so not do the things that lead to divorce. A divorce becomes possible when one or both individuals choose to live according to the flesh. As Jesus did not mention any exceptions in either Mark or Luke it is plausible that he was not concerned about exceptions to the commandment. The one exception mentioned in Matthew may not be all the exceptions there are but that one applied to the situation he was addressing in that passage or to something happening in Matthews life; so he thought to include it. I cannot see where a person walking according to the Spirit will suffer a child to be abused by their spouse. As humans, we get wrapped up in the letter of Scripture and forget the Spirit. The other flaw it to attribute a spirit to God that is not his. I have seen advocates for homosexual marriage and other evils do that.
Kerwin…..Where did i say a unmarried man having sex with a “married” women is not adulatry, i never said that, in fact if a unmarried man even looks on a marred women to lust after her , he has commited adultery with her in his heart already. Why would he if he were single and had sex with her be an adulterer, because he caused her to commit adultery and beeak her covanant she has withher husband. and uniting in sex with her they became “ONE” , he shares in what he caused it to take place.
Remember when Paul said that we should not fornicate, he said if a man joins himself to a harlot he, has become one with her.
1COR6:16….What? ,know you not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? For two says he, shall be ome one flesh.
WHEN A PERSON BECOMES “ONE” WITH THE OTHER THEY BOTH SHARE IN THE RESULT OF THEIR ACTION EQUALLY. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Nick,
Jesus was sent to Israel and he clarified their Law for them and tightened up some features.
What Jesus said was binding to Christians the world over, if he is our Lord. Otherwise we are of the world.
He said they should continue as they were when first called.
That has nothing to do with sin. Paul did not mean that we continue sinning as when we were first called. He did not mean that if we were living in fornication or adultery to stay in that. He was discussing circumcision and slavery
18Was anyone at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was anyone at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision. 19For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God. 20Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called. 21Were you a bondservant when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.) 22For he who was called in the Lord as a bondservant is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a bondservant of Christ. 23You were bought with a price; do not become bondservants of men. 24So, brothers,f in whatever condition each was called, there let him remain with God.
Gene, we agree with this, even if there are smaller differences of opinion.
Kerwin, I am convinced that marriage is binding until death. Divorce or separation is allowed in some situations, but entering another sexual relationship after divorce is not allowed – it is adultery so long as the ex husband or wife lives.
My point here also is that Jesus said that it would become as the days of Noah, when people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage. Churches today seem to believe it is OK if their members live in adultery, (second/ third marriages). I think they are scared to lose members. Scared to lose their reputation, and scared to lose their wage. I believe that Jesus meant what he said, and there is no exception. Paul said that adulterers and fornicators will NOT enter heaven. Do we care about people’s salvation – or do we care about our own popularity? Of course, in the world it is normal to live in fornication and adultery.
I was reading somewhere that the rates of fornication and adultery in Islam is low, compared to Christianity, today. We should feel ashamed of our lack of control and obedience, imo.
Gene,
You told Miia that a unmarried man that has sex with another man’s wife is not an adulturer
You definitely misunderstood Gene, Kerwin.
Studying the Greek (clicked on each word):
I say moreover to you that whoever divorces his wife, not at/toward fornication, and marries another commits adultery, and the one who is put away commits adultery if they marry.
Because we have the definite statements of Mark and Luke, it seems to me that Matthew has the exception of fornication aimed at fornicators who can repent, and then marry for the first time ever, because fornication is not marriage. So it’s like, ‘whoever divorces his wife, not talking to fornicators, and marries another commits adultery…’
Perhaps.
Moses allowed men to divorce women if they were displeasing to them and supposedly he spoke from God and Jesus made a stricter rule about it that it should be based only on adultery.In St Mark which is the eldest and which the other gospels were based upon,and least quoted I might add, he says Mk.10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
Mark 10:12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
It is acknowledged here at least that a woman can leave a husband too which conforms more to what I perceive to be more in line with St. Paul and the real Jesus. It’s still chauvinistic but not as much as Matt.
And so many women have suffered tortuous lives and deaths based upon these words.
<h3></h3>“Because we have the definite statements of Mark and Luke, it seems to me that Matthew has the exception of fornication aimed at fornicators who can repent, and then marry for the first time ever, because fornication is not marriage. So it’s like, ‘whoever divorces his wife, not talking to fornicators, and marries another commits adultery…’”
Oh then, how blessed are the fornicators !
Hi Nick,
And the religious opinions of the holy books don’t match each other either. But I’m sure that issue is more important to you than all who have suffered and still suffer from their religious opinions.
AndrewAD,
The Pharisees interpreted the Law rather liberally. The Law is actually closer to what Jesus said.
Deuteronomy 24:1-2Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
24 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.
I know from another passage that woman determined not to be a virgin could be divorced, or rather put to death, making divorce irrelevant.
If so then Matthew is pretty much claiming Jesus is claiming Jesus is saying what the Law already stated while the Pharisees were not.
AndrewAD,
The fornicators, unless they are male, are not blessed.
From what I understand proof of the woman virginity, i.e. she bled on the marriage blankets, was kept.
Dear Kerwin,
It seems to me then that the verse you quote from Deut. is actually much more liberal and more humane than any of the supposed words of Jesus from any of the gospels since according to it she may go marry another man.But I acknowledge it’s based not on adultery or fornication.But if you want to say the “uncleanness”is strictly sexual in nature then it only shows another discrepancy/contradiction in religion and the religious literature.
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