Were there giants on the Earth?

This topic contains 133 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Jodi 2 months ago.

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  • #843985
     Anthony 
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    Hi All

    The bible teaches us that man sins from his own heart and      imagination

    Man chooses to sin, we really can’t say the devil made me do it. We can choose to do the right thing that would be over coming.

    God bless

     

    #843986
     Jodi 
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    Hi TC,

    Ezekiel 28 is speaking of king Tyrus. HE is being called an anointed cherubim. 

    You want the passage to have double meaning, you want to equate Tyrus being called a cherubim with it also representing an actual cherubim as one of God’s celestial messengers who was in the Garden of Eden at Adam’s time and who sinned. If you read other passages about the cheribum, and other passages in Ezekiel and Joel you would know that you are attempting to make a passage represent what it in fact does not. You could also recognize how the double meaning doesn’t even make sense because the actual sin of king Tyrus is given and it could not apply to a celestial messenger, of which cherubim are not anyway.

    “Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned:”

    Sin came from wealth that then produced pride and violence. We don’t KNOW when God’s celestial messengers were created, there is nothing about a celestial messenger in the Garden of Eden during the time of Adam who had great wealth with every precious stone. The earth and it’s precious stones were created for mankind. .

    12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

    13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

    THOU here is King Tyrus, being in Eden the Garden of God which represents being blessed and he represents one of the great TREES in God’s Garden. He had been blessed with wisdom and wealth with precious stones. The workmanship, which came from God’s gift of wisdom,  brought forth instruments, the tambourines and pipes. These instruments are played upon the mountain of the LORD with gladness of heart out of devotion to God. King Tyrus was blessed and faithful, then he sinned just like the great Tree the king of Egypt did, who was also in the Garden of God.

    Isaiah 30: 29 Ye shall have a song, as in the night when a holy solemnity is kept; and gladness of heart, as when one goeth with a pipe to come into the mountain of the LORD, to the mighty One of Israel.

    Ezekiel 31: 1 And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness? 3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs. 4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field. 5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth. 6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations. 7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters. 8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. 9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him. 10 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height; 11 I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.

    TC go read all the passages that speak of cherubim, they certainly are NOT celestial messengers, or the same as the Sons of God in the book of Job. 

     

     

     

    #843987
     GeneBalthrop 
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    TC…..Haven’t you noticed that it wasn’t satan who brought up JOB, it was God who did, ask yourself,  why? 

    Because he wanted to bring on Job all the suffering  He NEEDED, to correct his thinking , that was his purpose all along, so he used satan to bring about what he wanted him to. Proof? 

    Job 42:11….says clearly,  it was THE LORD  who took all, THE BLAME,  just as it says,  ” and they comforted him over all the “evil” that the “LORD”, had brought upon him”:  

    Read it for yourself and come back and tell us what you think.

    Evil is used by God for punishment, correction, teaching, often even in all our lives. 

    Remember Adam and Eve, chose to know (have an enimate relationship with)  good “and” evil.  As a result we all have personally experienced both good and evil in all our lives.

    GO and read all the evil God brought on ISREAL because they do not obey him, event kicking them out of their land as he did those before them, even telling them he would cause them to eat their own childern in the seige . If you think God is not capable of bringing EVIL on people,  your not even close to knowing the God of the bible, HE said ,  ” I create good and I created “evil”, none can deliver from my hand.”  

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

     

    #843989
     Anthony 
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    Hi All             1.)      Genesis 6:1-8 “The Sons of God”, Are they fallen angels? Me: They can’t be. Matt. 22:30  For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. we may conclude they are neither male or female. Furthermore, if the judgment of the flood was against the “sons of god” and they were angels, they would actually have escaped it since they are spiritual beings.                                                                      2.) Are they from the line Seth? The godly line. could this be so? Could the godly line become so totally corrupt that they were responsible for the Flood? It is difficult to imagine believers becoming that corrupt.                                                                                       3.) The third possibility is that or rabbinical interpretation. which is “the sons of gods” were rulers or princes.  People have never heard of this third possibility. perhaps a combination of the first and third is the best explanation. that, is the “sons of the gods” may be demon-possessed rulers!                                                                                         Gen. 4                      16 Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
    17 Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son. 18 Now to Enoch was born Irad, and Irad became the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael became the father of Methushael, and Methushael became the father of Lamech. 19 Lamech took to himself two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other, Zillah. 20 Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. 21 His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all those who play the lyre and pipe. 22 As for Zillah, she also gave birth to Tubal-cain, the forger of all implements of bronze and iron; and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.
    23 Lamech said to his wives,
    “Adah and Zillah,
    Listen to my voice,
    You wives of Lamech,
    Give heed to my speech,
    For I have killed a man for wounding me;
    And a boy for striking me;
    24
    If Cain is avenged sevenfold,
    Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.”
    25 Adam had relations with his wife again; and she gave birth to a son, and named him Seth, for, she said, “God has appointed me another offspring in place of Abel, for Cain killed him.” 26 To Seth, to him also a son was born; and he called his name Enosh. Then men began to call upon the name of the Lord.                           The Godly line Seth. The line of Cain, had a defiance of the Lord seen in Cain’s unworthy sacrifice and his murder of Abel, a true worshipper of God. Lamech continued in the spirit of Cain Gen. 6;1-4                                                                                                                           1 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.                                          1.) The genealogy of believers is listed in Genesis 5.                          2.) What a contrast to the ungodly  rebels of chapters 4 and 6!                                                                                                                               The narrative picks up again in chapter 6 with the cause of the flood laid at the feet of the “sons of the gods.”   who will be saved? the worshippers of God and no others.                                            We see this all happening again after the Flood. With the line of Ham, see; Gen. 10:6-14 genealogy of Ham. V.8 Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the Lord, and the beginning of his kingdom was Babal. “Confusion” beginnings!       I see that the “sons of god” of Gen.6 are men from the line of Cain before the Flood and from Ham after the Flood, demon possessed, the Devil is working out His planed to stomped of the seed of the women.   Look into Nimrod the mighty hunter!                                  God bless

    #843991
     Jodi 
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    Good Morning Anthony and All,

    YOU:

    The bible teaches us that man sins from his own heart and imagination

    Man chooses to sin, we really can’t say the devil made me do it. We can choose to do the right thing that would be over coming.

    ME: Let’s recall Jesus’s words to Peter he said, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

    Jesus called Peter ADVERSARY, because Peter had in his MIND human concern.

    The CARNAL MIND is at enmity with God.

    Romans 8:5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

    Jesus said “Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God”.

    A human is called a Satan an ADVERSARY or a Devil a FALSE ACCUSER or LIAR, because they are ALL of the SAME, they are ALL CARNALLY MINDED, they set their mind on serving their fleshly desires only. They are living on bread alone.

    The law was given so that man in his weak flesh could know how to serve his own flesh righteously. We hunger in our weak flesh, God knows that we must eat in order to stay alive. We must serve our flesh in order to live, but we shall not lie, cheat, steal, or kill in order to acquire food.

    The flesh is weak, desperation to feed not just you but your family sets your own imagination to go to work, devising ways to serve your flesh.

    There is not one instance where our weak flesh is being influenced by wicked rebel invisible spirits, and then man sins by choosing to follow that wicked spirit. The imagination that is IGNORANT of God will devise wicked plans. 

    Anthony, why is man likened to other creatures on earth when he sins? A dog returning to his own vomit, a viper when he lies?

    Psalm 73:22 I was senseless and ignorant; I was a brute beast before you.

    Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

    “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life? 28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

    Revelation 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

    The DEVIL here is a HUMAN FALSE ACCUSER who lives like an ignorant brute beast only serving his flesh. He will serve his own flesh by oppressing, even torturing and killing others. The devil here is a Roman Emperor serving only himself and following his own imagination to acquire his desires. The devil here is not a spirit that has possessed the Emperor and has control over him, or has influenced the Emperor to do evil.

    The serpent in the Garden is not a rebel wicked spirit using a snake as a vessel. The serpent symbolizes what the bible directly tells us from beginning to end, a creature that only knows his own nature and serves itself according to it, being ignorant of God. 

    Proverbs 1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

    Hosea 10:13 But you have planted wickedness, you have reaped evil, you have eaten the fruit of deception. Because you have depended on your own strength and on your many warriors,

    Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

    How does a serpent SURVIVE, his tongue licks the dust, by his nature, through his jacobson’s organ he finds his prey.

    Micah 7:16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf. 17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the LORD our God, and shall fear because of thee. 18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy. 19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea. 20 Thou wilt perform the TRUTH to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old.

    Serpents have terrible eyesight and they are deaf. Man is like a serpent blind and deaf to God and His ways. Man without God’s Spirit working in him is just deaf, blind, and dumb, only knowing his own nature, only following his own carnal mind using his imagination to serve his flesh. 

     

    #843992
     Jodi 
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    Anthony,

    It is OUR IMAGINATION that invents and devises wickedness. No scripture says that we sin from the influence of wicked rebel spirits. We sin because we are ignorant and weak and our own imaginations can devise ways to serve our flesh in a manner that is against righteousness. Wickedness comes from our OWN imaginations, not from the influence or possession of invisible wicked spirits.

    Research what pagans believed their definition to what a demon is. You seem to believe according to fables. Just because the NT authors used the word daimon,daimonion, Daimonizomai, does not mean we DEFINE them according to what pagans believed, we define them according to Hebrew thought and understanding and what we read in OT passages. Palsy was a demon, and unclean or evil spirit, it wasn’t a god possessing people.

    What would you call a virus that infects the brain and causes madness? It is an unclean, or evil spirit, a spirit that does harm to the function of the brain. God said that He would bring forth madness. He also said He would HEAL people.

    God placed an unclean spirit upon Saul, and it was removed by David playing the harp. God has inflicted man with all sorts of unclean spirit, evil spirits that are bad they cause harm, suffering, dysfunction to the body and mind. Jesus came and healed people from these evil spirits. Remember God’s word, He alone brings cursing, darkness, and evil “ra”  that which is displeasing, harmful.

    There is not a passage where unclean spirits are possessing people and/or influencing people to sin, where man then chooses to be possessed or influenced.

    APPLY God’s word, don’t give head to pagan or Jewish FABLES.

    #843996
     Anthony 
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    Hi Jodi          Well you give me a lot to think about, that’s a good thing.                                                I wonder if that was Jesus Christ imagination when He was being tempted? Do you suppose it  was from his imagination this evil?                                                                                                                                         So “the sons god” Gen. 6  to you are( maybe) Kings and Rulers without being (demon possessed), that made themselves gods of the nation to control the people, and to stomp out the true seed Christ, by their own imagination and evil desires of the natural man, not the spiritual man. Which in turn would be no god at all. Because God alone as powers.            I hear what your saying I’ll have to re-read your post.                                                                               God bless                   Fine tune your sling there’s giants in the land!!

    #843999
     Ed J 
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    Hi Anthony,

    If the formatting is screwed up,
    here is a simple trick to fix it…

    First click on “Edit”
    Next click on “Visual” instead of “Text” (which is what screws up sometimes)
    Then click on “Submit”

    Finally, wallah it is fixed!

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #844000
     Anthony 
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    Hi Edj

    Thanks for the Info.

    First click on “Edit”
    Next click on “Visual” instead of “Text” (which is what screws up sometimes)
    Then click on “Submit”

    Got it .Thanks God bless.

    #844001
     Ed J 
    Participant
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    Hi Edj

    Thanks for the Info.

    🙂

    #844011
     Anthony 
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    Hi Jodi

    I thought about your post and read it again and I can’t except your thoughts on it.That our imagination and the natural man and that the Devil doesn’t tempts us. I see three enemies.                For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:12

    1.) The Devil: Even though he was beaten at the cross by Christ, he still has power to influence men for evil. The Bible calls him “the wicked one,” “the devil,” “a murderer,” “a liar, and the father of lies,” “an adversary” who seeks to devour, “that old serpent,” and “accuser of our brethren” (Matthew 13:19Luke 4:33John 8:441Peter 5:8; Revelation 12:9-10).

    2.)  The world: The world means the cosmos, this world system. The world has a tendency to lead us into sin — evil companions, pleasures, fashions, opinions, and aims.

    Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. — 1 John 2:15

    The Bible also warns that the world and the “lust thereof” shall pass away, “but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever” (1 John 2:17).

    3.) The Flesh:

    The third enemy that you will face immediately is the lust of the flesh. The flesh is that evil tendency of your inward self. Even after you are converted, sometimes your old, sinful cravings will return. You become startled and wonder where they come from. The Bible teaches that the old nature, with all its corruption, is still there and that these evil temptations come from nowhere else. In other words, “a traitor is living within.” “That wretched bent toward sin is ever present to drag you down.” War has been declared! You now have two natures in conflict, and each one is striving for dominance.

    The Bible teaches:

    The flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. — Galatians 5:17

    Make not provision for the flesh” (Romans 13:14). On another occasion he said, “I keep under my body” (1 Corinthians 9:27)

    Your enemies are the devil, the world, and the flesh.

    God bless.

    #844024
     Jodi 
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    Hi Anthony,

    What I see is that you are misinterpreting a passage and ignoring the clear message given in scripture from beginning to end.

    Not only did Jesus call Peter “adversary” for having in MIND the things of MEN, but Jesus called Judas a devil (false accuser).

    As Jesus also said, “god is your belly”, you cannot serve two masters you cannot serve God and greed/money.

    Let’s look at the passage you gave, as you are lacking in interpreting it according to OT scripture and instead are viewing it according to fables.

    1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;) 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. 4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. 5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; 6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; 7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: 8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. 9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him. 10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    WHO Anthony would Christ’s followers FEAR? WHO nailed Jesus to the cross and why? MEN did, the RULERS did. Christ’s followers feared the devil “false accuser” that wanted to throw them into prison, torture and crucify them. If they remained faithful to God, though they would die they would receive the crown of eternal life. They do not wrestle with their own SIN, with their OWN FLESH for as long as they had a good conscience, doing God’s will from the heart, repenting of their sins, they were free FROM their FLESH and it’s bondage because Christ paid the penalty of all their sins. What they had to wrestle with is REMAINING FAITHFUL in their mind to God while being persecuted by the powers, the rulers of darkness. The DAY of evil they must stand against is the day where they would be accused falsely and be hung themselves on a cross. 

    YOU ARE RUINING the message of the passage  Anthony. Applying fables that would have done NO good to those about to be persecuted by the rulers at that time when Paul was speaking. What is it?.. the “spiritual wickedness in high places” that throws you off? Learn the OT, The king of Egypt, the king of Tyre, the king of Babylon, were ALL in “heaven”, they had power ABOVE all, and their hearts were set with pride thinking that they were ABOVE all, where they saw themselves as gods because their greatness they attributed to themselves. You are ignoring all the words that Paul has spoken in regards to the CARNAL MIND that produces spiritual wickedness, acts of the flesh that bring “idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions”. It’s not influence or mind possession by wicked rebel spirits that Christ’s followers had to overcome. They had to overcome FALSE ACCUSERS, of spiritual wickedness that wanted to persecute, torture, and bring them to their death , remaining faithful to God and Christ. 

    12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    Anthony this passage isn’t about fighting of demon possession, it was about Christ’s followers no longer living in the flesh but in the Spirit, but would have to face the Roman Emperor who was spiritually wicked who would falsely accuse them, throw them in prison, torture and kill them. Could they remain faithful through such a trial and die to then receive the crown of life? The armor of God that they had was God’s word and their belief in that word, that as Jesus had suffered the same but God had raised him from the dead, they too would be raised.

     

     

    #844025
     Jodi 
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    Hi Anthony,

    John 8: 44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his OWN NATURE, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

    To be OF the devil “false accuser” is to act upon your OWN NATURE, which is IGNORANT and first and foremost relies upon and trusts in the self/one’s own thinking and reasoning, which being ignorant can only produce lies. 

    If the problem is that the father speaks from his OWN nature, and you are of your father, you also are acting upon your OWN NATURE.

    Jeremiah 9:5 And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.

    Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. 

    Jeremiah 18:12 And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.

    Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Cain was our first murderer Anthony.

    Genesis 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his DESIRE, and thou shalt RULE OVER him.

    The “him” here is not a wicked rebel spirit that came to be called the Devil or Satan and we must rule over this rebel wicked spirit being’s influences. The “him” is SIN that our own ignorant imagination conjures up, and that is what we must rule over. Anthony scripture tells us that we DECEIVE ourselves, that we are ignorant.

    James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own DESIRE, and enticed. 15 Then when desire hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    Job 15:35 They conceive trouble and give birth to evil; their womb fashions deceit.

    Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

    It is not some wicked rebel spirit that causes us to be carnally minded, we are carnally minded by nature, just like a lion, a serpent, or a dog, but unlike those creatures we have an imagination and self identity, we can think and reason, we can invent. We also, unlike the other creatures on earth,  can knowingly have God’s Spirit working in us, we can knowingly function as He designed us to function. 

    Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of THEIR MIND,

    Vanity – Mataiotes,  what is devoid of truth and appropriateness, perverseness, depravity, frailty, want of vigor.

    God gave the law so that we would know right from wrong as we are IGNORANT, he gives us of His Spirit so that we can separate ourselves from natural brute beasts. NOT so we would know to deny demon possession.

    Psalms 72:22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.

    2 Peter 2:12 But these, AS NATURAL brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their OWN corruption; 13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their OWN deceivings while they feast with you; 14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    #844026
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 11
    • Total replies 1,845

    Hi Anthony,

    Please Compare Paul’s word of Ephesians 6 with Paul’s word,

    2 Corinthians 10:2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not WAR after the flesh: 4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds😉 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your OBEDIENCE is fulfilled.

    Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil (fasle accuser) shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

     

     

    #844027
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 8
    • Total replies 1,109

    Hi Anthony,

    Good post brother, but I think I will elaborate a little.

     

    Jer 17:9 The heart (3824) is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    3824. lebab inner man, mind, will, heart

    Definition of heart: the central or innermost part of something, the inner man.

     

    Me: Is our innate heart more wicket than all? Is it more wicket than Satan?

    John 8:44… When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    Me: Satan’s heart is more deceitful than all. It is the most deceitful. So our hearts conform to his.

     

    New American Standard Bible
    Romans 7:18 For I know that NOTHING good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

    Me: “Nothing good” means zero good. This is Paul speaking of his human heart. We are bounded to the heart of the devil ever since Eden.

    Or is Satan wicket above all and purely evil? Flesh here is metamorphic of the human heart. When we follow the holy spirit we bind to the heart and humanity of Christ. In the end all with have a heart of flesh like Christ’s.

    Ezk 36:26 A new heart (of Christ) also will I give you, and a new spirit (holy spirit) will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

     

    #844028
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 8
    • Total replies 1,109

    Hi All,

     

    Eph 2:1 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    Me: It is the common man’s spirit with the heart of the devil that gives life to his flesh.

    2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not…

    Me: Satan is the God of this world and his spirit and heart leads it.

    1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    Me: What sin was this? It was deception.

    James 1:14 But every man is TEMPTED, when he is drawn away of his own lust (sinful desire), and enticed (1185).

    HELPS Word-studies
    1185 deleázō (from delear, “bait”) – properly, to bait a hook or set a trap with bait; (figuratively) entice a victim into a moral trap, luring them in through their own selfish impulses.

    Me: So who enticed Paul to surrender to his lusts (desire)? Was he enticed by Satan?

     

    Where does this lust or evil desires come from?

    Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, (eph ho by which or on the basis of) all have sinned:

    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/5-12.htm

    eph ho: which on the basis of

    Me: I believe this is the correct translation of Romans 5:12. It is death in you that causes you to sin.

    Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.:

    Me: The life from the spirit in us is righteousness.  This is opposite of death in our flesh that causes us to sin.

    Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but SIN that dwelleth in me 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, IT IS NO MORE THAT I DO IT, but sin that dwelleth in me.

    The enticement comes from the heart of the devil in us. What sin dwelled in Paul that caused him to sin? It is the DECEPTION of the devil.

    Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

    These are the works of the devil.

    #844029
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 8
    • Total replies 1,109

    Hi All,

     

    Me: Does man not do good and evil? Is man’s behavior purely evil?

    Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
    or else excusing one another;)

    Me: All men have the written law written in their hearts as opposed to the spiritual law in Heb 10:16 evemtually. We have the law of the knowledge of good and evil together with a conscience to balance out our wicket heart. Adam and Eve truly ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    #844030
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 8
    • Total replies 1,109

    Hi All,

     

    Ezk: 28:1 Son of man, say unto the PRINCE of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

    Ezk 28:9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

    Me: The PRINCE of Tyrus was a man. Many empires and kings considered themselves Gods.

     

    Ezk 28:11 Moreover (on the other hand)  the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the KING of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee

    Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Me: It is the spiritual wickedness in high places or in ruler ship positions that are the real rulers of this world.  Notice in God’s eyes the human king is put a prince.  The real king is Satan.

    #844031
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 8
    • Total replies 1,109

    Hi All,

    God created everything good in the beginning—this includes the angels.

    Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

    Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    #844038
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 11
    • Total replies 1,845

    Hi TC,

    The message in Jude 1 is ALL about MEN who have sinned and their punishment. The chapter doesn’t go from talking about man, to then celestial messengers, to then man again. We have account of prophets who were said to be in God’s abode, but then spoke lies, and so God cast them out into darkness. Go read the book of Jeremiah, you even have these human messengers being compared to Sodom and Gomorrah just like in Jude. John the baptist was a PROPHET and he was also called a MESSENGER, likewise Paul was called a MESSENGER, but you think in Jude given the context and examples of men sinning and being punishment that the messengers are celestial messengers and not human ones? That is absurd, you are forcing the text to fit a fable.

    Jude 1:6 (YLT) messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept,

    Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    Strange flesh are animals not celestial angels morphing into some sort of fleshly creature that the daughters of men were attracted to.

    the word strange is Heteros meaning the other, another, other

    We are talking about another kind of FLESH, which should obviously be identified as ANIMAL flesh.

    Exodus 22:19-20 “Whoever has sexual intercourse with an animal must be put to death. “Whoever sacrifices to any god except the LORD must be condemned and destroyed.

    Deuteronomy 27:21-22 Anyone will be cursed who has sexual relations with an animal. Then all the people will say, Amen! A man will be cursed who has sexual relations with his sister, whether she is his father’s daughter or his mother’s daughter. Then all the people will say, Amen!

    Leviticus 20:15-16 If a man has sex with an animal, he must be put to death, and the animal must be killed. If a woman presents herself to a male animal to have intercourse with it, she and the animal must both be put to death. You must kill both, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

    Leviticus 18:22-30 “Men, you must not have sexual relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin! “Men, you must not have sexual relations with any animal. This will make you filthy. And women, you must not have sexual relations with any animal. It is against nature! 

     

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