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Hi Jodi,
Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.
Me: “Stars” and “the sons of God” refers to angels in the OT. “The sons of God” are never referred to as man in the OT.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=sons+of+God&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1
Me: The term “sons of God” refer to a new direct creation. We become sons of God through Christ, through his sacrifice and resurrection. We do not become sons of God by our human ancestry.You then go on to justify and rationalize your error written off topic.
You: I hope we can discuss the word Satan. The Hebrew word for ADVERSARY is phonetically pronounced SAW-TAWN.
Me: You then cite Numbers 22:22, I Samuel 29:4, 2 Samuel 19:22, 1 Kings 5:2, I Kings 11:14, 1 Chronicles 21:1, Psalms 78:49. You do not site where the SAW-TAWN is used for Satan.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=satan&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1
Satan is mentioned in the OT numerous times and it refers to a person. Satan is the epitome of evil and adversary. Whenever you see the article “THE” in front of adversary or SAW-TAWN always means the devil.Example: Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the YHWH and Satan (7854) came also among them.
7854. satan Phonetic Spelling: (saw-tawn’)
Word Origin
of uncertain derivation
Definition
adversary, also the name of the superhuman adversary of God
NASB Translation
accuser (1), adversary (8), Satan (18).
Clearly Satan is a person in this verse. He is also among and is a son of God or a direct creation made somewhat like God but not like the Messiah and we will be made.Hi Jodi,
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=Satan&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1
Me: As you can see, Satan is presented invariable as a person in the NT verses.
Example:
New American Standard Bible
2 Cor 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan (4567) disguises HIMSELF as AN angel of light.
Clearly this verse is speaking about A person named Satan.https://biblehub.com/lexicon/2_corinthians/11-14.htm
Definition
4567. Satanas: the adversary, Satan, i.e. THE DEVIL.
Word Origin
of Hebrew origin satan
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7854.htm
Phonetic Spelling: (saw-tawn’)Me: This is the origin of the word Satan in the NT where it refers to a person, the devil himself comes from the OT word pronounced (saw-tawn)
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/matthew/4-1.htm
New American Standard BibleMatt 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.(1228)…10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan (4567) for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Strong’s Concordance
1228. diabolos: slanderous, accusing falsely
Usage: (adj. used often as a noun), slanderous; with the article: the Slanderer (par excellence), the Devil.Me: So you can see here that The devil (1228) is Satan (4567)
Hi Jodi:
You: TC, don’t you realize that Jews that went whoring after other gods, meant that they had FALSE beliefs about gods? What do beliefs about gods pertain to? Blessing and Cursing is what they pertain to.
Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.Me: So far this does not refute 1 book or the book of Enoch written centuries before Christ.
You: The book of Enoch says,
8. 8. And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits (fallen angels) and flesh (human women), shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. 9. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from women, and from the holy Watchers (fallen angels) is their beginning and primal origin; they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. 10. As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling. 11. And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless hunger, and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them.
The book of Enoch is nothing but Jewish FABLES absolute LIES, it turns God’s Holy Angels that bring forth God’s will and turns them directly into rebel wicked spirit beings. It is DIRECTLY against God’s word, that HE ALONE brings forth darkness and creates evil upon men, to punish and instruct them.Me: first of all, you do not show which book of Enoch you are quoting from: Is it Book 1, book 2, or book 3. As I have shown you above, books 2 and 3 are polluted and are not of the original book of Enoch or the Ethiopian book. It is incumbent upon you to show this. You call fables what you do not understand. And believe me, you and your false minister do not understand.
Jodi:
You: There are NO wicked spirits or fallen angels that give knowledge to man, or that incite man to do evil. God gives man knowledge and wisdom, the Book of Enoch speaks lies denying what God Himself says He has given to man, wisdom of workmanship. Man is said repeatedly to sin from his OWN imagination, his own heart, that it is he himself that devices wickedness.
Me: You are wrong! God gives spiritual wisdom and understanding to those who are his. This is not the wisdom of the world who excel in the things of the world.
Luke 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
John 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
1 Cor 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Me: God gives wisdom and knowledge which the world cannot receive.
1 Sam 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. And Saul’s servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
Me: God also uses evil spirits to accomplish his dirty work—a couple of examples.
Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them
1 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
God uses Satan to blind those that do not believe.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? 9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? 10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. 11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. 12And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.Me: Satan, not a good angel brought adversity unto Job to humble him. Whether you define Satan as adversity or a person, it is certain that a good angel did not do the deeds in Job 1:6-17. For Satan is questioning God.
You: Man is said repeatedly to sin from his OWN imagination, his own heart, that it is he himself that devices wickedness.
Me:
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Me: Man uses his own heart and imagination that is influenced by the devil.
Hi Jodi,
You: There are NO wicked spirits or fallen angels that give knowledge to man, or that incite man to do evil.
Me: You are wrong!
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Me: This contradicts you.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? 9 Then Satan answered the YWHW, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? 10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. 11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. 12And the YHWH said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Me: Satan, not a good angel brought adversity unto Job to humble him. Whether you define Satan as adversity or a person, it is certain that a good angel did not do the deeds in Job 1:6-17. For Satan is questioning God.
1 Sam 16:14 But the Spirit of the YHWH departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the YHWH troubled him. And Saul’s servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
Me: God also uses evil spirits to accomplish his dirty work—a couple of examples.
Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them
1 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Me: God uses Satan to blind those that do not believe.Hi Jodi,
You: God was SORRY in Genesis that He made HUMANS because their imaginations were wicked, the the thoughts of their own heart was wicked. God brought the flood to DESTROY them, not so that the giants could die and then become wicked spirits to go around giving wisdom and influencing man to do evil. Just absolute FOOLISHNESS is the book of Enoch on so many levels.
Me: Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
God was sorry that he had made man and beast that were now genetically corrupted.
.
Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect (8549) in his generations (8435), and Noah walked with God.
This does not mean that Job had not sinned, for all have sinned. This means that Job’s Genes were not corrupted by the angels.https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8549.htm
8549. tamim
complete, sound
NASB Translation
blameless (22), blamelessly (1), complete (1), entire (1), full (1), intact (1), integrity (4), perfect (5), sincerity (1), unblemished (2), uprightly (1), who is perfect (1), whole (2), without blemish (12), without defect (36).https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8435.htm
8435. toledoth
generations
NASB Translation
account (1), birth (1), genealogical registration (12), genealogies (3), generations (21), order of their birth (1).Me: Noah was perfect in all his generations, not generation. If you look at the right hand side of the link https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8549.htm , you will find that it pertains to rams and lambs on the right references, namely Exodus 12:5, 29:1, Lev 1:3 and so forth. So we are addressing physical blemish here and not spiritual.
Matt 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 38 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation
Me: Man will be eating and drinking in a time of perceived safety. They will be marring and given in marriage to the angels. Whatever the case, their will be gene manipulation or accelerated evolution.
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
No flesh will be saved because like in Noah’s days the human and animal gene pool was greatly damaged. The elect not in a place of safety will be put to death.
1 Thes 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Me: Just like in the days of Noah, destruction will come swiftly from God’s hands. I believe there will be a fake 2nd coming or great deception first.
Hi TC,
So am I to believe that the adversary in the book of Job is a wicked rebel spirit, even though he is appearing in God’s presence, he is watching over mankind to see if he is righteous, and when he sees that he in fact is not, he through God’s will curses Job, and Job through his trials by the end becomes closer to God?
How would this adversary be any different than the the evil angels spoken of in Pslams?
41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel. 42 They remembered not his hand, nor the day when he delivered them from the enemy. 43 How he had wrought his signs in Egypt, and his wonders in the field of Zoan: 44 And had turned their rivers into blood; and their floods, that they could not drink. 45 He sent divers sorts of flies among them, which devoured them; and frogs, which destroyed them. 46 He gave also their increase unto the caterpiller, and their labour unto the locust. 47 He destroyed their vines with hail, and their sycomore trees with frost. 48 He gave up their cattle also to the hail, and their flocks to hot thunderbolts. 49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them. 50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence; 51 And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham: 52 But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock.
In the book of Job there is NO ACCOUNT of the adversary being against God and not following God’s commands, he is an adversary to Job, as so was God’s angels to Egypt, as so was God’s angel to Balaam, as so was God’s angel’s throughout the OT. They brought CURSING through God’s will, according to God keeping His word that if you had faith in Him and followed His ways you would be blessed, and if you didn’t you would be cursed.
In the book of Job, we see that Job had everything, easy to be faithful when you have it all. Once Job had been cursed with boils, he changed his tune, the adversary was absolutely right about him and his accusation, (which is the meaning for an adversary, one who withstands) and with his cursing Job came out closer to God having deeper understanding to man and God, which was the intention of Job’s adversary. He STOOD in the way of Job, saying that Job needed work on his faith and character.
When it comes to adversaries, oppressors, false accusers, slanderers, the beast or a dragon, these are HUMANS all following the SAME thing, where their “god is their belly”, where they love mammon more than God, where they ALL follow the thoughts of their heart and device evil through their OWN IMAGINATIONS. When you have a powerful ruler that is wicked because of his own thoughts and imagination who leads and army and collaborates with other evil men and their armies, you become a Beast that going around devouring the weak, being an oppressor a SAW-TAWN, being a false accuser, full of deceit a Devil. There are many Devils and many Adversaries, but they all are wicked through the same problem, they have NOT the Spirit of God in them, they are nothing but carnally minded, just like a serpent or any other creature that is fully ignorant of God and only follows their carnal nature.
This is what I see TC, you don’t know what the bible teaches, you do not read to understand the CONTEXT of The Garden of Eden, the Holy Mountain of God, how men are said to dwell in heaven and be cast out and what that means. What you believe is a book that can simply be exposed as pure fables and lies as it directly contradicts God’s direct word in scripture. You don’t know what the bible teaches, you pull passages and say that they mean something according to a doctrine that is based on a book of fiction.
This is a topic that would take weeks of going through many passages and having to tackle many different areas, including what the cherubim are and what they are most certainly not. The giants DIED, their LIFE was taken from them, when you are dead you know nothing, you cannot plan or devise any good or any evil according to scripture. YOU HAVE NO LIFE, not you just don’t have a body. There is LIFE and there is DEATH. YOU SIN YOU DIE, not you sin so you can have your body taken away and be a spirit that goes on sinning. God brought the flood because He wanted to destroy the wicked, NOT because He wanted to take their bodies away from them, so they could become spirits to bring forth even more wickedness. That is just absolute foolishness.
TC,
The bible teaches us that YHWH alone exists with powers, that He alone brings forth cursing, destruction and death to mankind by supernatural means.
The bible teaches us that man sins from his own heart and imagination.
So what do these evil spirits against man and God do exactly??
Hi Jodi 👋 Good post.
You said: The bible teaches us that man sins from his own heart and imagination.
God bless.
Anthony……yes our sins come from us, and it is us who are held accountable . Another good post by Jodi.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Jodi:
You: How would this adversary be any different than the the evil angels spoken of in Pslams?
Psalm 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel. 42 They remembered not his hand, nor the day when he delivered them from the enemy. 43 How he had wrought his signs in Egypt, and his wonders in the field of Zoan: 44 And had turned their rivers into blood; and their floods, that they could not drink. 45 He sent divers sorts of flies among them, which devoured them; and frogs, which destroyed them. 46 He gave also their increase unto the caterpiller, and their labour unto the locust. 47 He destroyed their vines with hail, and their sycomore trees with frost. 48 He gave up their cattle also to the hail, and their flocks to hot thunderbolts. 49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them. 50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence; 51 And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham: 52 But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock.Me: Of course you did not give us where in Psalm the verses above came from.
Here is an insert from what you quoted from Psalms 78 above.
Psalm 48:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
Me: Who is “he” in Psalm 48:49? It is God almighty. He sent the evil spirits.
You:
So am I to believe that the adversary in the book of Job is a wicked rebel spirit, even though he is appearing in God’s presence, he is watching over mankind to see if he is righteous, and when he sees that he in fact is not, he through God’s will curses Job, and Job through his trials by the end becomes closer to God?
In the book of Job there is NO ACCOUNT of the adversary being against God and not following God’s commands, he is an adversary to Job, as so was God’s angels to Egypt, as so was God’s angel to Balaam, as so was God’s angel’s throughout the OT. They brought CURSING through God’s will, according to God keeping His word that if you had faith in Him and followed His ways you would be blessed, and if you didn’t you would be cursed.Me: You contradict yourself above. God is watching over mankind. He uses the evil angels to do his will. He used evil nations to conquer and enslave the nation of Israel to punish them.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Jodi,
And Yes, Satan is appearing in God’s presence. It is scripture.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Let the below website explain this. Fire your stupid minister.http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Divine-Counci
I will not comment on the rest of your nonsense as I have already gone over this.
By the way, you have still not answered my question above relating to this verse but instead go rambling all over the place with your nonsense which you pass off as understanding.
Ezk 28:14 Thou art the ANNOINTED cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast PERFECT in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.Me: Here I showed you that angels can sin and Ezk 28:14 is an example of a high ranking angel that sinned afterwards. This anointed Cherub was perfect in all his ways before he sinned. You deny this.
Gene:
You: Anthony……yes our sins come from us, and it is us who are held accountable . Another good post by Jodi.
Me: I think it was an awful post by Jodi. It was not only unscriptural but lacked sense.
Hi TC,
I have not contradicted myself. I think you need to do a word study on the word evil in Hebrew “ra”. This is the problem I spoke about earlier that you have, you don’t understand the original Hebrew word, and the context given in a passage accordingly.
The difference here is you say the angels are sinful, they oppose God and man, as you don’t understand the Hebrew word that was translated as EVIL.
RA bad, evil
bad, disagreeable, malignant
bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
evil, displeasingI say that the angels do “evil” “ra” that which is displeasing, disagreeable, unpleasant even miserable, causing pain, through a RIGHTEOUS PURPOSE, they follow God’s will because they too are one with God. The adversary in the book of Job brought upon Job pain and suffering, NOT because he was sinful, but because he knew what was in the heart of Job and recognized that it needed testing, such was his job that God gave him to do in roaming earth.
I have no contradiction just the understanding of Hebrew language and thought. You see things like a Greek philosopher. Like a so called converted pagan trying to fit NT authors into their preconceived beliefs, of whom many actually despised Hebrews. You follow a doctrine made of men who excommunicated or even murdered Hebrews who tried to speak out saying that they had it all wrong, this is NOT our God, this is NOT our Messiah, when “Christian” creeds were being formed.
There is the faithful Hebrew who knows what it means to die.
There is the pagan who believes in immortal souls.
There is the whoring Hebrew who corrupts God’s word. This is where I see you fall in line.
There is the so called “converted pagan” who also corrupts God’s word. This is where I see you also fall in line.
Jodi,
You: I have not contradicted myself. I think you need to do a word study on the word evil in Hebrew “ra”. This is the problem I spoke about earlier that you have, you don’t understand the original Hebrew word, and the context given in a passage accordingly.
The difference here is you say the angels are sinful; they oppose God and man, as you don’t understand the Hebrew word that was translated as EVIL.
RA bad, evil
bad, disagreeable, malignant
bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
evil, displeasingMe: I never had said that all angels sin. I said God uses both the sinful and the righteous angels to accomplish his purpose. Show me where I said that; Copy and paste and give me the reference post. You defining “ra” is just scatter braining away from the topic. I know what the English word evil means when used in scripture. I don’t need to know what the Hebrew word is. On the other hand, I look up the Greek and Hebrew words to find alternative definitions if the scriptures seem to contradict to make them fit. This is always subject to change.
You: I say that the angels do “evil” “ra” that which is displeasing, disagreeable, unpleasant even miserable, causing pain, through a RIGHTEOUS PURPOSE, they follow God’s will because they too are one with God. The adversary in the book of Job brought upon Job pain and suffering, NOT because he was sinful, but because he knew what was in the heart of Job and recognized that it needed testing, such was his job that God gave him to do in roaming earth.
Me: First of all, you seem to not consider that Satan is an angel. No, he is not one with God but is evil yet he accomplishes God’s purpose. God wanted Satan to consider if Job was perfect. No one is perfect. Satan knew that Job was proud and self righteous. Job was not perfect. So God let Satan put Job to the test. Would Job repent and humble himself before God (verse 42:6)? Would Job grow in the spirit?
Prov 3:12 For whom the YHWH loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the YHWH, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the YHWH said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the YHWH, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 8 And the YHWH said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? 9 Then Satan answered YHWH, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? 10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. 11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. 12 And the YHWH said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the YHWH,
Jodi,
1 Cor 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:..29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
Job 42:1 Then Job answered the YHWH and said, 2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. 3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. 4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. 5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and REPENT in dust and ashes.Me: What did Job repent of? He was successful financially. He repented of being proud and had glorified himself. But in prior verses God showed him how insignificant he was compared to God and what God knows. God used an evil angel to correct Job, not to show how perfect he was.
Jodi:
You: I have no contradiction just the understanding of Hebrew language and thought. You see things like a Greek philosopher. Like a so called converted pagan trying to fit NT authors into their preconceived beliefs, of whom many actually despised Hebrews. You follow a doctrine made of men who excommunicated or even murdered Hebrews who tried to speak out saying that they had it all wrong, this is NOT our God, this is NOT our Messiah, when “Christian” creeds were being formed.
There is the faithful Hebrew who knows what it means to die.
There is the pagan who believes in immortal souls.
There is the whoring Hebrew who corrupts God’s word. This is where I see you fall in line.
There is the so called “converted pagan” who also corrupts God’s word. This is where I see you also fall in line.Me: Nope, now you are resorting to calling me names–comes from the heart of a proud and arrogant person.
Jodi,
Me: You still have shown me how Ezk 28:14 fits in with your scheme that the righteous angles do no sin. You can’t and are arrogant and proud and stick to your error.
Ezk 28:14 Thou art the ANNOINTED cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast PERFECT in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Me: Here I showed you that angels can sin and Ezk 28:14 is an example of a high ranking angel that sinned afterwards. This anointed Cherub was perfect in all his ways before he sinned. You deny this. All the angels are the sons of God but not like we will become.
All had not sinned when they were created. Do you think that God can clean up Satan in the end?
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