WAS jESUS RESURRECTED IN THE FLESH,

[Marlin1]

Quote

Quote 2besee This is a lot deeper as it is from the book of Revelations, so needs to be slowly read. but: Rev 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.” Matt 24:26-28 So, if they say to you, `Lo, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out; if they say, `Lo, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together. “ Compare the words in both Revelations and Matthew 'Eagels/Birds' and 'Gather/Gathered' and see how Jesus' coming in Matthew is shining from the east to the west as lightning does (quick and bright) and how in Rev an Angel is seen standing in the sun. I believe that the coming of Jesus will be quick and bright and there will be no need to wonder if it is the day of the Lord/return of Jesus or if it is not. It will be obvious. … and every eye will definitely see.  some, though, will see through their spirit eyes and welcome, rather than fear the coming of the son of man.

Brother 2Besee,

I believe that Mat 24:26-28 is not talking about the return of Jesus at all.  It is talking about the preaching of the Gospel.  It started in the east and ends at the Pacific Ocean, as far west as you can  go.  The body, eagles are as such, where the Word is, there will be where His children will be.

I also believe that Rev 19, is after Armageddon.  At this battle every eye will see Him, before that He comes as a thief in the night.

Did every eye see Him when He left into the clouds? No, only the TRUE believers seen Him leave in the clouds. And He has returned the same way.

God Bless
bro. Marlin

[Wakeup]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 22 2013,02:48)

Quote Quote 2besee This is a lot deeper as it is from the book of Revelations, so needs to be slowly read. but: Rev 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.” Matt 24:26-28 So, if they say to you, `Lo, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out; if they say, `Lo, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together. “ Compare the words in both Revelations and Matthew 'Eagels/Birds' and 'Gather/Gathered' and see how Jesus' coming in Matthew is shining from the east to the west as lightning does (quick and bright) and how in Rev an Angel is seen standing in the sun. I believe that the coming of Jesus will be quick and bright and there will be no need to wonder if it is the day of the Lord/return of Jesus or if it is not. It will be obvious. … and every eye will definitely see.  some, though, will see through their spirit eyes and welcome, rather than fear the coming of the son of man. Brother 2Besee, I believe that Mat 24:26-28 is not talking about the return of Jesus at all.  It is talking about the preaching of the Gospel.  It started in the east and ends at the Pacific Ocean, as far west as you can  go.  The body, eagles are as such, where the Word is, there will be where His children will be. I also believe that Rev 19, is after Armageddon.  At this battle every eye will see Him, before that He comes as a thief in the night. Did every eye see Him when He left into the clouds?   No, only the TRUE believers seen Him leave in the clouds.  And He has returned the same way. God Bless bro. Marlin

Marlin

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, **AND THEY ALSO WHICH PIERCED HIM**: *AND ALL KINDREDS OF THE EARTH* shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

wakeup.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2013,13:18)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2013,12:37) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2013,04:34) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2013,00:36) T, Quote K Good,his flesh, and that we know was given by Mary his birth mother, A surrogate mother to the son of God, Adam and Eve were both new creation,Jesus was not ,he came to save men from Adam sin and reconcile men to his father , Accordin to Scripture Jesus, like John the Baptist, was conceived in his mother's inner parts.  You claim that allows for suragacy, while I do not. We agree that Jesus' flesh comes from Mary.  That agreement seems enough for the continuation of this conversation. We agree that Jesus is the Son of David and therefore the son of Adam; who is the father of humanity, as of the flesh. Jesus declares he, himself is flesh and bone, even after he was resurected and appeared in the midst of his students. There is nothing written that he ever became anything else.  Still we can stick to the agreed upon fact that he was seen as flesh and bone until he went in the clouds.   The angels told the Eleven he would come from the clouds in the same manner he went, and he went as flesh and bone. Connect that to the fact that Jesus comes as the Son of man, who he is in the flesh, then the evidense seems overwhealming that he comes in the flesh. K Quote Accordin to Scripture Jesus, like John the Baptist, was conceived in his mother's inner parts.  You claim that allows for suragacy, while I do not. you try to make me believe that Mary was fertilized by another man and that is false ,scriptures says she was covered by the holy spirit ,but the holy spirit is the action tool of God ,it is not God but “of”God ,AND SO YOU TRY TO MAKE ME BELIEVE THAT GOD SUPPLIED THE OTHER  MALE PARTS ,???no THAT IS NOT WHAT GOD AS SET IN THE BEGINNING ,YOU BRING CHANGES AGAINST GOD'S OWN CREATED THING AND LAWS, ALSO CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD ,AND DESCENDED FROM DAVID THROUGH HIS MOTHER AND STEP FATHER ANCESTRAL, BUT THIS IS NOT THE ORIGIN OF GOD'S SON T, Luke 1:36 King James Version (KJV) 36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. The words are “also conceived”  Jesus and John the Baptist were conceived of their respective mothers.  Neither are said to be implanted embryos. K In history, they did not know that the first born in twins his the youngest ,this is now days findings In those days no one knew If Mary has received the ambrio who would know The fact that you reject it is because you still believe that Christ his a dream in the spirit ,that came to be fulfilled in the man called Jesus, But you can not explain why he did not had a human father, Or why did God breaks his own law : like no man can save another or pay the ransom to redeem  another , So you fabricate a logic in your mind that could help you to accept that mystery ,but there really is no mystery,

T,

The Spirit of God knows the difference between a child conceived in a woman's inner parts and a child placed within a woman's inward parts and is able to make that difference clear.

Instead Scripture teaches us that Jesus was conceived in a woman, born of a woman, and grew in both statue and wisdom. These things are common to mankind.

The experts appear to disagree on the correct translation of the Hebrew behind the words of Psalms 49:7. Therefore it is not wise to use it alone to discredit the translation of other passages they find easier to translate.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,00:59)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2013,13:18) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2013,12:37) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2013,04:34) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2013,00:36) T, Quote K Good,his flesh, and that we know was given by Mary his birth mother, A surrogate mother to the son of God, Adam and Eve were both new creation,Jesus was not ,he came to save men from Adam sin and reconcile men to his father , Accordin to Scripture Jesus, like John the Baptist, was conceived in his mother's inner parts.  You claim that allows for suragacy, while I do not. We agree that Jesus' flesh comes from Mary.  That agreement seems enough for the continuation of this conversation. We agree that Jesus is the Son of David and therefore the son of Adam; who is the father of humanity, as of the flesh. Jesus declares he, himself is flesh and bone, even after he was resurected and appeared in the midst of his students. There is nothing written that he ever became anything else.  Still we can stick to the agreed upon fact that he was seen as flesh and bone until he went in the clouds.   The angels told the Eleven he would come from the clouds in the same manner he went, and he went as flesh and bone. Connect that to the fact that Jesus comes as the Son of man, who he is in the flesh, then the evidense seems overwhealming that he comes in the flesh. K Quote Accordin to Scripture Jesus, like John the Baptist, was conceived in his mother's inner parts.  You claim that allows for suragacy, while I do not. you try to make me believe that Mary was fertilized by another man and that is false ,scriptures says she was covered by the holy spirit ,but the holy spirit is the action tool of God ,it is not God but “of”God ,AND SO YOU TRY TO MAKE ME BELIEVE THAT GOD SUPPLIED THE OTHER  MALE PARTS ,???no THAT IS NOT WHAT GOD AS SET IN THE BEGINNING ,YOU BRING CHANGES AGAINST GOD'S OWN CREATED THING AND LAWS, ALSO CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD ,AND DESCENDED FROM DAVID THROUGH HIS MOTHER AND STEP FATHER ANCESTRAL, BUT THIS IS NOT THE ORIGIN OF GOD'S SON T, Luke 1:36 King James Version (KJV) 36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. The words are “also conceived”  Jesus and John the Baptist were conceived of their respective mothers.  Neither are said to be implanted embryos. K In history, they did not know that the first born in twins his the youngest ,this is now days findings In those days no one knew If Mary has received the ambrio who would know The fact that you reject it is because you still believe that Christ his a dream in the spirit ,that came to be fulfilled in the man called Jesus, But you can not explain why he did not had a human father, Or why did God breaks his own law : like no man can save another or pay the ransom to redeem  another , So you fabricate a logic in your mind that could help you to accept that mystery ,but there really is no mystery, T, The Spirit of God knows the difference between a child conceived in a woman's inner parts and a child placed within a woman's inward parts and is able to make that difference clear. Instead Scripture teaches us that Jesus was conceived in a woman, born of a woman, and grew in both statue and wisdom.  These things are common to mankind. The experts appear to disagree on the correct translation of the Hebrew behind the words of Psalms 49:7.  Therefore it is not wise to use it alone to discredit the translation of other passages they find easier to translate.

K

Quote

The Spirit of God knows the difference between a child conceived in a woman's inner parts and a child placed within a woman's inward parts and is able to make that difference clear.

so you do not know,right ???yes

Quote

Instead Scripture teaches us that Jesus was conceived in a woman, born of a woman, and grew in both statue and wisdom. These things are common to mankind.

this has nothing to do with the fact that Mary would be the surrogate mother of the preexisting son of God,created before her live, to be born and grew up as a human for God's purpose not men purpose,

Ps 49:7 No man can redeem the life of another
or give to God a ransom for him—
Ps 49:8 the ransom for a life is costly,
no payment is ever enough—
Ps 49:9 that he should live on forever
and not see decay.

Quote

The experts appear to disagree on the correct translation of the Hebrew behind the words of Psalms 49:7.  Therefore it is not wise to use it alone to discredit the translation of other passages they find easier to translate.

so what does not fit to your mind ,you are erasing or made it void ,

Mt 1:16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

so are saying that Joseph was Christ father

read the words :::of whom was born Jesus ;;; un
derstand this

Lk 1:27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary.

Lk 1:30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God.
Lk 1:31 You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus.
Lk 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,

look at the words ;;;You will be with child ;;; and ;;he participation ;; and give birth to a son;;and that was what the angel of God told her ;

Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will

K' was Christ born of natural descent yes or no

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2013,14:50)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 21 2013,14:28) To All………..Paul said ” for we hope for the “resurrection ” that will witness the redemption of “our” “BODIES” . And again….” if the spirit of him that raised Christ Jesus from the dead dwell in you “he or “it” shall “ALSO QUICKEN ” you “MORTAL (dead) BODIES”. Question is it a dead spirit that is going to be raised or a dead “body”.? The spirit doesn't die it goes back to who gave it in the first place,  so that elimates the spirit that is being raised and only leaves what remains, the “BODY” Peace and love to you all……………gene Yes gene Amen. So we believe in the flesh – but what about the return? Do you believe that Jesus will (be seen to) return in flaming fire? We agree on the 'rising in the flesh'. But what are we looking for (at the return of Jesus)?

2besee…….The bible is full of symbolized expressions. Fire is one of those used in many places, it can be literal as in the case of fire that burnt up Sodom and Gamora or when the prophet Eligah brought fire down from God to devour the prophets of Baal's offering.

But there are many places where fire is referring to intense judgements for instances as Peter put it, now concerning this “fiery” trial , that has tried you as if some strange thing has happened unto you. . I believe where it say Jesus will return with flaming fire is also one of those metaphors because Jesus said when he returned he would separate the nations as a man separates the sheep from the goats, here Jesus is rendering intense Judgements to the nations. Another scripture a prophecy say I saw The Lord decend from mount Paron with ten thousands of his Saints to execute judgement on the earth, and to convince all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed .

I believe the best picture of Jesus' return is found in Luke , it is explained in more literal detail. It gives us a picture of what is literally taking place on this earth at his return. It portrays a celestial event, the seas a roaring and men hearts failing them (heart attacks) because of the fear of that thing coming on the earth,  for the powers of heaven ( that is the gravitational pulls the lock the heaven together) shall be shaken, and then shall they see the sign of the son of man in the heavens coming with great power and authority . we are told in I believe Isaiah or Ezekiel that the earth will real to and fro like a drunkard, this is a result of something coming through our planetary system and it will cause the gravitational pulls the lock the planets together to be shaken causing the earth to wobble back and forth causing great susamies with possibly 200-300 foot waves to come crashing on the land “the seas a roaring” it will reap terrible havoc and destruction on this earth . IMO

peace and love to you and yours brother……………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 20 2013,16:13)

I believe that the coming of Jesus will be quick and bright and there will be no need to wonder if it is the day of the Lord/return of Jesus or if it is not. It will be obvious.

I agree. And that day, WHEN IT COMES, will be obvious to ALL who are living on earth at the time. The return of Jesus will be a ONE TIME event that ALL will see. People do not have their own, personal “day of the Lord” – as some here claim.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 21 2013,09:18)

Who will see Jesus come in the Clouds?

All eyes, Marlin.

His coming is what will be like lightning that flashes in the east, but you can see it from the west.

The “thief in the night” idiom refers to the fact that many here will not be expecting it when it happens. Many will be caught off guard. They will be eating, drinking and marrying, like nothing is wrong – just like the day the flood waters began to rise.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (david @ Jan. 20 2013,21:52)

“Some believe that Jesus was resurrected in the flesh. This boggles my mind.”–WAKEUP

David,

Yet you now know, due to our scriptural discussion on the subject, that Jesus was indeed originally raised from the dead in the flesh, don't you?  

[terraricca]

the return of Christ will be so shaking that our faith will be shaken to its core ,and so will be the events that will occur prior to his coming ,this is why we should strengthen our faith with the very truth of his words ,and believe in him without a doubt ,so that you won't be shaken out of your faith ,like some were at the time of the apostles ,

because their will be no help from anyone ,we will stand with our own faith in witch ever condition it may be ,

[kerwin]

T,

Quote

so you do not know,right ???yes

I know you do not believe that Jesus was conceived in Mary; not do you believe that from his first existence he is a human.

I also know the angel did not declare that the Holy Spirit would place a child into Mary's womb.

What is written is no different than occurs when any human is conceived in their mother as all are formed by God.  The means of conception are different; even as they differ between those conceived from fusion and those conceived from fission.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,08:35)

T, Quote so you do not know,right ???yes I know you do not believe that Jesus was conceived in Mary; not do you believe that from his first existence he is a human. I also know the angel did not declare that the Holy Spirit would place a child into Mary's womb. What is written is no different than occurs when any human is conceived in their mother as all are formed by God.  The means of conception are different; even as they differ between those conceived from fusion and those conceived from fission.

k

YOU DO NOT ANSWER MY QUESTIONS ,why

the conception for both mother bio or surrogate is the same it is only in the child it self that lays the difference ,

[2besee]

To all,

Regarding “every eye will see”:

The other day I was on the computer. nothing was different, it was a normal day, a bit overcast I think, and all of a sudden there was a strong wind outside and it sounded as if it came from nowhere and even the roof made a sound as if it was going to lift. The first thing that i did was run to the window to see what on earth was going on and then I went outside to look and the first thing that I noticed was a huge dark cloud overhead and all around it was bright.

Anyway, the point is that the first thing that i did, an instant reaction, was to go out and look.

Imagine this if you can:

You are going about your day or morning or even night depending on where you are in the world – you may even be sleeping, but where ever you are, there is a sudden strange lightness all about you, brighter than any natural light you have ever seen (and if you are asleep it would wake you up). No matter where you are, the first thing that you would do is to go out and see what on earth is happening and even if your could not 'go out' due to some medical reason or something, the light would penetrate through all things.

Now, when it says that every eye will see, does that make sense to you?

[david]

Today, when there is a world event, every eye can see it.

[2besee]

The day will come like a thief in the night, it will not be like every one is watching it happen slowly on TV it will be unexpected.

[2besee]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 22 2013,10:01)

Quote (2besee @ Jan. 21 2013,14:50) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 21 2013,14:28) To All………..Paul said ” for we hope for the “resurrection ” that will witness the redemption of “our” “BODIES” . And again….” if the spirit of him that raised Christ Jesus from the dead dwell in you “he or “it” shall “ALSO QUICKEN ” you “MORTAL (dead) BODIES”. Question is it a dead spirit that is going to be raised or a dead “body”.? The spirit doesn't die it goes back to who gave it in the first place,  so that elimates the spirit that is being raised and only leaves what remains, the “BODY” Peace and love to you all……………gene Yes gene Amen. So we believe in the flesh – but what about the return? Do you believe that Jesus will (be seen to) return in flaming fire? We agree on the 'rising in the flesh'. But what are we looking for (at the return of Jesus)? 2besee…….The bible is full of symbolized expressions. Fire is one of those used in many places, it can be literal as in the case of fire that burnt up Sodom and Gamora or when the prophet Eligah brought fire down from God to devour the prophets of Baal's offering. But there are many places where fire is referring to intense judgements for instances as Peter put it, now concerning this “fiery” trial , that has tried you as if some strange thing has happened unto you. . I believe where it say Jesus will return with flaming fire is also one of those metaphors because Jesus said when he returned he would separate the nations as a man separates the sheep from the goats, here Jesus is rendering intense Judgements to the nations. Another scripture a prophecy say I saw The Lord decend from mount Paron with ten thousands of his Saints to execute judgement on the earth, and to convince all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed . I believe the best picture of Jesus' return is found in Luke , it is explained in more literal detail. It gives us a picture of what is literally taking place on this earth at his return. It portrays a celestial event, the seas a roaring and men hearts failing them (heart attacks) because of the fear of that thing coming on the earth,  for the powers of heaven ( that is the gravitational pulls the lock the heaven together) shall be shaken, and then shall they see the sign of the son of man in the heavens coming with great power and authority . we are told in I believe Isaiah or Ezekiel that the earth will real to and fro like a drunkard, this is a result of something coming through our planetary system and it will cause the gravitational pulls the lock the planets together to be shaken causing the earth to wobble back and forth causing great susamies with possibly 200-300 foot waves to come crashing on the land “the seas a roaring” it will reap terrible havoc and destruction on this earth . peace and love to you and yours brother……………………..gene

Gene,

If there will be all of those things that you said such as the whole world in fear due to natural disasters etc, then how come it says in 1Thes 5:3:

[1] But as to the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need to have anything written to you.
[2] For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
[3] When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape.
[4] But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

Also, “As were the days of Noah, so shall it be”,

[37] As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
[38] For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
[39] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man.

Do you see how it does not quite fit? or, how would you make it fit.

[2besee]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 22 2013,04:48)

Quote Quote 2besee This is a lot deeper as it is from the book of Revelations, so needs to be slowly read. but: Rev 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.” Matt 24:26-28 So, if they say to you, `Lo, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out; if they say, `Lo, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together. “ Compare the words in both Revelations and Matthew 'Eagels/Birds' and 'Gather/Gathered' and see how Jesus' coming in Matthew is shining from the east to the west as lightning does (quick and bright) and how in Rev an Angel is seen standing in the sun. I believe that the coming of Jesus will be quick and bright and there will be no need to wonder if it is the day of the Lord/return of Jesus or if it is not. It will be obvious. … and every eye will definitely see.  some, though, will see through their spirit eyes and welcome, rather than fear the coming of the son of man. Brother 2Besee, I believe that Mat 24:26-28 is not talking about the return of Jesus at all.  It is talking about the preaching of the Gospel.  It started in the east and ends at the Pacific Ocean, as far west as you can  go.  The body, eagles are as such, where the Word is, there will be where His children will be. I also believe that Rev 19, is after Armageddon.  At this battle every eye will see Him, before that He comes as a thief in the night. Did every eye see Him when He left into the clouds?   No, only the TRUE believers seen Him leave in the clouds.  And He has returned the same way. God Bless bro. Marlin

Get to this shortly Marlin.

[david]

Quote

If there will be all of those things that you said such as the whole world in fear due to natural disasters etc, then how come it says in 1Thes 5:3: [1] But as to the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need to have anything written to you. [2] For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. [3] When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. [4] But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

There can be natural disasters and horrible conditions, but perhaps one day, the UN will eradicate religion, or sign some sort of world government document and declare “peace and security.”

NOTE: this doesn't mean there will be peace and security. It just means “peace and security” will be said in some meaningful way. Politicians and world leaders tend to say things that aren't true.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2013,09:02)

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2013,08:35) T, Quote so you do not know,right ???yes I know you do not believe that Jesus was conceived in Mary; not do you believe that from his first existence he is a human. I also know the angel did not declare that the Holy Spirit would place a child into Mary's womb. What is written is no different than occurs when any human is conceived in their mother as all are formed by God.  The means of conception are different; even as they differ between those conceived from fusion and those conceived from fission. k YOU DO NOT ANSWER MY QUESTIONS ,why the conception for both mother bio or surrogate is the same it is only in the child it self that lays the difference ,

T,

There is a large difference:

Quote

A gestational surrogacy requires the transfer of a previously created embryo, and for this reason the process always takes place in a clinical setting.

In conception the embryo is formed inside of the mother.

Scripture does not teach that Jesus was transferred into Mary's inner parts.

Source is from wikipedia's entry on surrogacy.

I have only a short time and so limit my responses. If you believe I missed something important then please echo it. If God leads me to answer it I will.

[2besee]

Quote (david @ Jan. 22 2013,18:00)

Quote If there will be all of those things that you said such as the whole world in fear due to natural disasters etc, then how come it says in 1Thes 5:3: [1] But as to the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need to have anything written to you. [2] For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. [3] When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. [4] But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief. There can be natural disasters and horrible conditions, but perhaps one day, the UN will eradicate religion, or sign some sort of world government document and declare “peace and security.” NOTE: this doesn't mean there will be peace and security.  It just means “peace and security” will be said in some meaningful way.  Politicians and world leaders tend to say things that aren't true.

But still, it will be in a day when is least expected.

Alas, the great delusion.

[2besee]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 22 2013,04:48)

Quote Quote 2besee This is a lot deeper as it is from the book of Revelations, so needs to be slowly read. but: Rev 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.” Matt 24:26-28 So, if they say to you, `Lo, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out; if they say, `Lo, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together. “ Compare the words in both Revelations and Matthew 'Eagels/Birds' and 'Gather/Gathered' and see how Jesus' coming in Matthew is shining from the east to the west as lightning does (quick and bright) and how in Rev an Angel is seen standing in the sun. I believe that the coming of Jesus will be quick and bright and there will be no need to wonder if it is the day of the Lord/return of Jesus or if it is not. It will be obvious. … and every eye will definitely see.  some, though, will see through their spirit eyes and welcome, rather than fear the coming of the son of man. Brother 2Besee, I believe that Mat 24:26-28 is not talking about the return of Jesus at all.  It is talking about the preaching of the Gospel.  It started in the east and ends at the Pacific Ocean, as far west as you can  go.  The body, eagles are as such, where the Word is, there will be where His children will be. I also believe that Rev 19, is after Armageddon.  At this battle every eye will see Him, before that He comes as a thief in the night. Did every eye see Him when He left into the clouds?   No, only the TRUE believers seen Him leave in the clouds.  And He has returned the same way. God Bless bro. Marlin

Hi Marlin.

Okay, so let us take a look at mat 24:26-28.
You believe that it is not talking about the return of Jesus at all… and that it is talking about the preaching of the gospel, starting from the east and going to the west, the body and eagles being wherever the word is, there his children will be.

Let us look at the whole chapter. I will put my notes in purple.

Firstly, the correct wording of this is: “For wherever it may be the carcass, there will be gathered the vultures.”

Matt.24
[1]

Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple.

[2] But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down.” fulfilled in 70AD
[3]

As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?” It seems here that the Disciples are asking Jesus about what became 70AD, the close of that age

[4] And Jesus answered them, “Take heed that no one leads you astray.
[5] For many will come in my name, saying, `I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray.
[6] And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
[7] For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places:
[8] all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.
[9]

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.

[10] And then many will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another.
[11] And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
[12] And because wickedness is multiplied, most men's love will grow cold.
[13] But he who endures to the end will be saved.
[14] And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come. So this is a summing up of the whole story from the time that they are in until the destruction of Jerusalem and then through the Gospel age (spreading of the Gospel through the world) and right on up to THE END of the world.
[15]

“So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), I have always believed that this have a dual meaning, the abomination being Nero or perhaps the Romans which happened in the Temple around 70AD and then it will happen again in the spiritual temple, or the Holy place, which is the body (the spiritual temple – “know ye not that ye are the temple of God) toward the end of the world. Therefore let the reader have understand in their time.

[16] then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains;
[17] let him who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house;
[18] and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle.
[19] And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days!
[20] Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath.
[21] For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. Happened in Jerusalem 70Ad and will happen again toward the end of the world but in a spiritual way due to the man of sin of 2nd Thess and the temple being the body and huge delusion/falling away of the spiritual church.
[22] And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. As in Jerusalem meaning literal death so to in the end days as to spiritual death/deception/saved.
[23] Then if any one says to you, `Lo, here is the Christ!' or `There he is!' do not believe it.
[24] For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[25] Lo, I have told you beforehand.
[26] So, if they say to you, `Lo, he is in the wilderness,' do not go out; if they say, `Lo, he is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. False prophets and false Jesus' have always been around and so to in these end days may come the master deceiver most likely in Jerusalem and he will convince most of the world that he is Jesus come back.
[27] For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
[28] Wherever the carcass is, there the vultures will be gathered together.
Okay stop right there this is the verse that you were talking about being the spreading of the Gospel.
I can understand how you would see this, but, where else can we see birds gathering together?

Revelation 19.

[6] Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the sound of many waters and like the sound
of mighty thunderpeals, crying, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns.
[7] Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;
[8] it was granted her to be clothed with fine linen, bright and
pure” —
for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.
[9]

And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are true words of God.”

[10] Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
[11]

Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.

[12] His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems; and he has a name inscribed which no one knows but himself.
[13] He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
[14] And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, followed him on white horses. This is the coming of the Lord – Jude: “Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness which they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” – Rev continued on…

[15] From his mouth issues a sharp sword with which to smite the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron; he will tread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.
[16] On his robe and on his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords.
[17]

Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, East to West, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly in midheaven, “Come, gather for the great supper of God, Here is a repeat of “where the body (bodies) are there the birds will be gathered, to do what?…..

[18] to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.”
[19] And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who sits upon the horse and against his army.
[20] And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur.
[21] And the rest were slain by the sword of him who sits upon the horse, the sword that issues from his mouth; and all the birds were gorged with their flesh. I believe that this is the end of the world, the day of the Lord and the return of Jesus)I am a kind of Amillenialist so I believe that the next chapter of Rev is a recapitulation of this chapter. Okay back to Matthew:
[29]

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days, Okay, Jesus seems to be backtracking here a bit, one moment He is talking about the coming then he is talking about before the coming again the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; This could have a spiritual meaning – the sun is sometimes refereed to as Jesus the sun of righteousness, the moon is the reflection of Jesus so these are no longer giving their light to the world, the world is in a huge deception and truth has almost vanished form earth, and the stars falling and the powers of heaven being shaken can be spiritual (need some more investigation on that)

[30] then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory;
[31] and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
[32]

“From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near.

[33] So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.
[34] Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.
[35] Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
[36]

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

[37] As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
[38] For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,
[39] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
[40] Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left.
[41] Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left. Now some believe that this is the rapture and that the good are taken away but look again – as it was in the days of Noah – who was taken away and killed in the flood? Was it the good? NO! The bad were taken away. Where those of God's will survive and they will meet Jesus in the air. This could possibly mean that though their bodies will be on Earth surviving the heat (See Daniel chapter 3) their spirits will rise to be with the Lord though they are still in their bodies (See 2Cor 12:2-3 “I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven — whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.”
[42] Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
[43] But know this, that if the householder had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have let his house be broken into.
[44] Therefore you also must be ready; for the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
[45]

“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time?

[46] Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing.
[47] Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
[48] But if that wicked servant says to himself, `My master is delayed,'
[49] and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eats and drinks with the drunken,
[50] the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know,
[51] and will punish him, and put him with the hypocrites; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.

——————

That is put together in a fast sort of a way as I am not in the right spiritual mood at present to be posting, but, some things to think about anyway.

God bless.

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