Was Jesus Created?

[kerwin]

Mike,

Those five questions are not in regards to the question “Was Jesus created?”

[mikeboll64]

Kathi,

You have FINALLY acknowledged that “beginning of the creation by God” could mean the first thing God ever created.  That is good.  Now I can use my other scriptures to show you that is what it HAS to mean.

But, you are stuck on this other thing so far.  I'll ask once more:
Are you seriously saying that “firstborn of every creature” CANNOT POSSIBLY be referring to the first creature ever born?  Are you seriously saying that billions of people who have understood it this way throughout thousands of years were completely whacked out of their minds because there is NO WAY it could POSSIBLY mean that?  

You used to argue alongside me against Keith and Jack on this point, Kathi.  We both agreed that Jesus was the firstborn of all creation, created by God before the ages – just like the church fathers you like to quote said, right?

But now you think that same thought is a COMPLETE IMPOSSIBILITY?  Have you gone mad?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,22:48)

Hi MB, So you do concede that the conception of Jesus was not the fulfillment of Ps2? That his partaking of flesh was not his conception? Conception is a beginning.

I haven't “conceded” anything, Nick. This thread is about whether or not Jesus was created. You and I agree he was.

I'm ignoring your other posts which are designed to pull this thread off topic. (Have you not noticed you do this in every thread where I'm active? Have you no concern for the topic of the threads?)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 25 2012,22:53)

Mike, Those five questions are not in regards to the question “Was Jesus created?”

Kerwin,

Read my post that is directly above this post of yours. It most definitely speaks to whether or not Jesus was a creation of his God.

[Lightenup]

Mike,

Quote

Are you seriously saying that “firstborn of every creature” CANNOT POSSIBLY be referring to the first creature ever born?

If firstborn is literal, it CANNOT POSSIBLY be referring to the first creature ever born. That is true.

The argument with Keith and Jack was regarding whether firstborn was literally born or just an appointed firstborn position. Neither of them believed that the Son was begotten before the ages. We both agreed that the term firstborn was literal and that it happened before the ages. What we never agreed on was that it meant first created. I have never said that the Son was created as something coming into existence from non-existence.

I have argued endlessly that firstborn does not mean and cannot mean first created if it is literal. Are you just now finally getting that??

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,15:50)

If Jesus is not the One who created all those things, than he has no choice but to be one of those things that was created by the One they prayed to – the One who DID create all those things.

Hi Mike,

This sentence is as clear as mud?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,16:02)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,22:48) Hi MB, So you do concede that the conception of Jesus was not the fulfillment of Ps2? That his partaking of flesh was not his conception? Conception is a beginning. I haven't “conceded” anything, Nick.  This thread is about whether or not Jesus was created.  You and I agree he was.   I'm ignoring your other posts which are designed to pull this thread off topic.  (Have you not noticed you do this in every thread where I'm active?  Have you no concern for the topic of the threads?)

Hi Ed,
The man Jesus was among God's creation by conception.
But the Word that was God was not created.

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2012,23:29)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,15:50) If Jesus is not the One who created all those things, than he has no choice but to be one of those things that was created by the One they prayed to – the One who DID create all those things. Hi Mike, This sentence is as clear as mud? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Mike

Edj is given you the same treatment that he gives me wen he does not want to answer

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,10:50)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 25 2012,22:43) Hi Mike, You can't pressure others into believing as you do, you will have to do it with Scripture, which you don't have. Let me know when you try to use another verse; OK? Ed, The point of Acts 4 is very simple.  It depicts who exactly created the heavens, earth, sea, and everything in them.  That One is “God”. Then, in verse 30, it clearly lists Jesus as someone OTHER THAN the God who created the heaven, earth, sea, and everything in them. If Jesus is not the One who created all those things, than he has no choice but to be one of those things that was created by the One they prayed to – the One who DID create all those things. It was a very simple concept to grasp, and I'm sorry you were unable to grasp it.

Mike,

I agree that this post is on topic.

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,16:33)

Hi Ed, The man Jesus was among God's creation by conception. But the Word that was God was not created.

Hi Nick, of course.

But that is NOT what Mike has been saying.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 26 2012,16:33)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2012,23:29) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,15:50) If Jesus is not the One who created all those things, than he has no choice but to be one of those things that was created by the One they prayed to – the One who DID create all those things. Hi Mike, This sentence is as clear as mud? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Mike Edj is given you the same treatment that he gives me wen he does not want to answer

Hi Pierre,

Why don't you explain what he means,
instead of taking it as a conformation?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi Pierre,

You should be glad when others agree with you, but instead
YOU seem to relish when 'your words' are not understood.     …this IS quite puzzling?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2012,18:42)

Hi Pierre, You should be glad when others agree with you, but instead YOU seem to relish when 'your words' are not understood.     …this IS quite puzzling? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

1 Cor 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion,
but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,14:59)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,21:51) how can i answer the question of mike if we are not done yet with the term firstborn of death??? he should first admit that his logic is wrong. The questions on the bottom of page 5 don't concern the term “firstborn”, jammin. I already knew the arguments I would get with Col 1:15 and Rev 3:14, because I've discussed them at length many times before. The purpose of this thread was to show people like you that it will take more than twisting the meaning of those two scriptures to “prove” that Jesus has existed from eternity. The Acts 4 prayer is only the beginning of the scriptures we'll discuss – scriptures that all point to Col 1:15 and Rev 3:14 meaning exactly what they say. I realize you're scared.  I realize you've read the post at the bottom of page 5 already, and cannot think of how you will answer.  And I realize that is why you would rather keep bringing up that one Job verse instead of moving on with the discussion.

therefore mike you cant read your opinion in col 1.15 and rev 3.14

i suggest you make your own version

[jammin]

your logic is useless. it cant be used for this argument.

the firstborn of death means diseases. and it is not a member of the death

study hard mike

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,16:33)

The man Jesus was among God's creation by conception. But the Word that was God was not created.

Nick……….This is correct, the Word that WAS GOD has no beginning or ending of days, Jesus Has a beginning at his conception on this earth He came form a Prophesied person to a REAL LIVING BEING. Who recieved the Word (LOGOS) of GOD into him at the Jordan River. And from there sent out into the world to Preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of GOD. Just that simple IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 27 2012,01:36)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 26 2012,16:33) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2012,23:29) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,15:50) If Jesus is not the One who created all those things, than he has no choice but to be one of those things that was created by the One they prayed to – the One who DID create all those things. Hi Mike, This sentence is as clear as mud? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Mike Edj is given you the same treatment that he gives me wen he does not want to answer     Hi Pierre, Why don't you explain what he means, instead of taking it as a conformation? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj
this is Mike's

Quote

If Jesus is not the One who created all those things, than he has no choice but to be one of those things that was created by the One they prayed to – the One who DID create all those things.

IF JESUS IS NOT THE ONE WHO CREATED ALL THOSE THINGS,

THAN HE(CHRIST) HAS TO BE ONE OF THOSE THING THAT WAS CREATED,

BY THE ONE THEY PRAYED TO,(GOD)

BECAUSE GOD HIS THE ONE THAT CREATED ALL THOSE THINGS

so what Mike says must have been in regard to prove that Jesus is a creation ,through the action of prayers done by believers

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 27 2012,01:44)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2012,18:42) Hi Pierre, You should be glad when others agree with you, but instead YOU seem to relish when 'your words' are not understood.     …this IS quite puzzling? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org 1 Cor 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

edj

1Co 14:28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
1Co 14:29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
1Co 14:30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop.
1Co 14:31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.
1Co 14:32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets.
1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints,

and you are definitively not a saint

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 27 2012,01:42)

Hi Pierre, You should be glad when others agree with you, but instead YOU seem to relish when 'your words' are not understood.     …this IS quite puzzling? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

some times you and others can not grasp simple things ,because you are so centered on yourself accomplishment that simple truths can not be in your grasp,

you are full of colors and glamour in your quotes but there is little truth in it .

[NickHassan]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 27 2012,04:56)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 27 2012,01:44) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2012,18:42) Hi Pierre, You should be glad when others agree with you, but instead YOU seem to relish when 'your words' are not understood.     …this IS quite puzzling? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org 1 Cor 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. edj 1Co 14:28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God. 1Co 14:29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 1Co 14:30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 1Co 14:31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 1Co 14:32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, and you are definitively not a saint

Hi T,
You are like a ittle yappy dog that races around fiercely barking but does not quite know why it is upset.

Sit

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