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Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 29 2010,07:22) Gene,
Picking Scripture verses and using them as YOU please is not what learning, understanding, nor Scriptural wisdom is about.Ecclesiates 9:5, 'The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing. There is no reward for the dead when the memory of them has faded'
Revelation 21:4, 'God shall wipe away all tears from their eye; and there will be n more death, neither sorrow nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain'
Psalms 37:10, 11, 'And a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; '
Gene, do you read past, back and forth between the 'select' parts you want to say something? Do you not know that others will do so?
Why do you post 'bitty' hoping to decieve, or else, falsely believing that you are being wise?The 'Smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image…'
Gene, death and Satan, the beast, nor the dragon, have been done away with at that time….note that the text is in the 'present tense', 'o for anyone who RECEIVES the mark of his name'.
Then later, in Rev 20:4 it says of those who had not RECEIVED the Mark and died for God and Christ, '….They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years'. The first ressurection.One for Mike:
Rev 21: 7, God says, “He that overcomes will inherit…, and I will HIS God and he Will Be MY SON'… Just as Jesus Overcame and became Son of God after he said to him, 'You are MY SON'.
After he overcame….
Gene, the Wicked have now been thrown into the sulfurous fire along with death, the beast, Satan.
So, this means they are no more.Then God bring about the new jersusalem, and the new heaven and earth, and the Glory of God and the Lamb are suddenly there, in all godly splendour.
So Gene, you say then that the wicked will still be there. The lake of fire will still be witheringly smoking up the torment of the wicked for all to see and the memories of them to bring to mind?
Is that right, Gene.
Now ask yourself why God would want to retain such a horror in his glorious new kingdom?
Further more, the 'Torment' can only be figurative, meaning, 'Eternally cut off from God'. for a spirit creature, being out of the presence of God is torment, being eternally outof the presence of God, is, eternal torment.
Gene, if you cut a cancer from your body, do you keep it in a jar to eternally remind yourself of it, or do you get rid of it and never bring it back to mind, idealistically. Why would you want to remember the pain and suffering of it and where it might have led to?
When a woman goes through childbirth, she suffers during, but afterwards, after the reward, she forgets it all, idealistically, otherwise why do they do it a second, third, fourth time…?
When you cut yourself severely, after the wound is healed, who wants to retain the memory of it?
God gives us the ability to 'forget'.Forget, yes, but the lesson of the pain, not the pain itself, is retained.
Same then as God will do.
The pain and torment of Sin and Death and he that brought it are removed from the memory…but the lesson of Sin remains as a deterent to any who may, never will, raise a future challenge.
No one is 'literally' tormented everlastingly and certainly not any of mankind in the flesh.
JA ……..> you need to quit contradicting yourself. First you say it will never be in memory then you say we will never forget it. Fact is we will never forgot any to the lesson we have learned here on earth , or the whole experience of this life would have be an excerpter of futility for us all. It say the Smoke of there torment ascenders up (FOREVER), now if you would go an figure what (FOREVER) means then you might start to understand what the text was saying. really means.JA………….no one here pick and used scripture as they chose more then you do , even with you Satan thing. should show you that. Scripture say it was speaking of the King of Babylon but after you get done with it , it is all about a Fathom Being named Lucifer who you call Satan. So yes picking and choosing scripture you can make out to be any thing you want it to it seem at least you and JA appears to have.
And by the way wiping away all tears from their eyes; and no more death nor sorrow nor crying nor pain does not equate no memory of those things left. That is your and JA addition to what is written it appears.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 29 2010,02:59) JA……….right God allowed all the effects of Evil just so we will forget it in the future and never remember it right , Another false teachings of yours . These lesson learned hear will never be forgotten, if that were the case then that would make God a sadistic beast at best.
Hey Gene,I was going to post this earlier, but then got caught up in a million words to JA.
GENE! WE FINALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING!
peace and love to you and yours,
mikeGene, Mike,
You two are amazing…Your eyes and minds are so shattered from reading truth that you can't see straight.
Gene, re read your own last post…
I said that what happened andthose it happened to will not be remembered…but the lesson of it will be.
Please, why did i illustrate it with several examples, then?
Why did i say about the pain of childbirth, about cutting yourself badly, etc. Right now i have a scar on my foot from when i was a child…i know i cut myself on a glass shard, but i don't remember the pain, i don't remember what it was like i don't remember the trauma…but i learnt not to step on glass shards.
Similary, the pain and horror of sin will not be remembered, nor those that were in it, 'for God will wipe all such things from their minds'…but the 'Lesson' will still have been learnt so it will never happen again.Whatever you may have thought i was saying, be it known that my thought thread is consistent, and has been so for a long time. This idea of 'what happens…' is not a new topic i just came across here. And what i write is what i have always written.
Look back….if you can to where i wrote this before…'The Smoke of them'… What is Smoke…Remember that Revelation is a Symbolic book. What does Smoke symbolise?
The fire and body of material from which the smoke comes from is not 'harmful, hurtful, damaging', it represents the end effect of what the fire did to the material.Sin is and them that caused it are the material from which the 'smoke', the 'lesson' comes from.
The 'fire' will not be remembered, but the smoke of the 'once was living sinfullness, the spirit of the person', and that which was caused, will remain, just as the scar on my foot remains but the memory of its being is no more… Sin came from lustful longing…the scar came from stepping on a shard.
No one will sin in the new kingdom because they will know not to sin but they will not remember those that did sin.
I know not to step on a shard, not from remembering the pain of my own for i was four years old, but yet i know that stepping on a shard is not good.So, here we are…Gene, Mike and JA.
If you are mistaking what i wrote for trying to say the same thing that you are saying….ha ha ha, then, ironically, Ha ha..Then, we are, actually, agreeing…..
This is another lesson. I've pointed this out several times over….don't automatically disagree with your opponent, just for being your opponent.
Check what your opponent is actually saying, he may actually be speaking truth!
!….then disagree….!
Ooops, i see you already do that. My apology to the both of you.
Ed,
How you find one person at one time or another is your own affair.
There are 'attack dogs' found in all places and at all times…however, there are those who track behind them with fierce growls and bared teeth, who only do so from the rear of the pack, and are the first to turn tail in the event.
Mike may appear 'open minded' when you want amusement against another. Did i not say before that that was his personal tactic…to say, 'hey, i'm open to things if you can prove it to me….' but he never does accept anything anyone says, but covers in by demanding 'deeper', phylosophical and overextended debates on the meaning of a '.' period or the origins of the lump of putty he found his ear one summer's morning after a rather uncomfortable sleepless night following an uncommonly sickening laser green slim tasting contest down at the local mudpool watering hole.
Basically, Mike has lost the point and is doing the 'dying fly' thing…buzzing his wings in a futile effort to right himself.
He has no point to make so takes to concentrating on what he feels are 'insults to his person'.
If Mike had any purposeful 'evidence' of incorrect content in my post then he would have happily ignored his 'sensitive' nature and be boldended by the strength of his evidence against me.
I ask him to do good to himelf by sketching out his ideas in the privacy of his mind…but what does he say,…he says i'm insulting him…what can you say to such a one?
He is so used to being wrong and being insulted that it is second nature to him to ignore good advice 'because it MUST BE an insult'.
Remember,(Mike….) your opponent is not ALWAYS WRONG….
But, still, beware…the best lies….are 90% truth… (Or is it 95%?)
JA ……………I must say you are good at sidestepping and covering you tracks , I will give you that. No matter what you say you always have a way around it, Slick!….As i have said (before too) you can't corner a snake in a bier patch. Fact is the Fire (intense Judgements) of GOD” Who it says “IS A CONSUMING FIRE” We leave a memory in all the people that ever existed and will serve a constant reminder. Your story about you in your unaware child hood has nothing to do with what you said, I do realize you must believe that or i suppose you would have never made such a ridiculous statement in the first place. This earthly experience we are in, and lessons we are learning about good and evil, and life and death will (NEVER BE FORGOTTEN BY US FOREVER> Sorry you can understand that. But then you come back and say you agree with us, so don't rally know where you stand on this it appears.
peace and love…………………………gene
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 02 2010,05:51) Ed, How you find one person at one time or another is your own affair.
There are 'attack dogs' found in all places and at all times…however, there are those who track behind them with fierce growls and bared teeth, who only do so from the rear of the pack, and are the first to turn tail in the event.
Mike may appear 'open minded' when you want amusement against another. Did i not say before that that was his personal tactic…to say, 'hey, i'm open to things if you can prove it to me….' but he never does accept anything anyone says, but covers in by demanding 'deeper', phylosophical and overextended debates on the meaning of a '.' period or the origins of the lump of putty he found his ear one summer's morning after a rather uncomfortable sleepless night following an uncommonly sickening laser green slim tasting contest down at the local mudpool watering hole.
Basically, Mike has lost the point and is doing the 'dying fly' thing…buzzing his wings in a futile effort to right himself.
He has no point to make so takes to concentrating on what he feels are 'insults to his person'.
If Mike had any purposeful 'evidence' of incorrect content in my post then he would have happily ignored his 'sensitive' nature and be boldended by the strength of his evidence against me.
I ask him to do good to himelf by sketching out his ideas in the privacy of his mind…but what does he say,…he says i'm insulting him…what can you say to such a one?
He is so used to being wrong and being insulted that it is second nature to him to ignore good advice 'because it MUST BE an insult'.
Remember,(Mike….) your opponent is not ALWAYS WRONG….
But, still, beware…the best lies….are 90% truth… (Or is it 95%?)
Hi JustAskin,Is this Post really to me or meant for MikeBoll64 instead?
You seem to be speaking to Mike while addressing me?Could you please explain what this means?…
…'How you find one person at one time or another is your own affair.'…God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (JustAskin @ Nov. 02 2010,05:51) Mike may appear 'open minded' when you want amusement against another. Did i not say before that that was his personal tactic…to say, 'hey, i'm open to things if you can prove it to me….' but he never does accept anything anyone says,
You say this knowing full well that it is because of YOUR teaching that I got rid of my “Jesus on the Cross” painting?
This lie is as misguided as the crybaby whining you filled the rest of your post with.
Keep it up, it's always good for a laugh……and for more than just me, believe me.Now, where were we? I asked why all things came to be through Jesus, and no one else. Are you sticking with your “the bad guys were expunged from the record books” theory?
Then you also made a statement about how Jesus was the most beloved by God in the beginning. I was waiting for an answer as to why he would be.
I think that's where we're at for now. The ball's in your court.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 02 2010,12:20) Hi JustAskin, Is this Post really to me or meant for MikeBoll64 instead?
You seem to be speaking to Mike while addressing me?Could you please explain what this means?…
…'How you find one person at one time or another is your own affair.'…
Hi Ed,You made the mistake of saying you find me open-minded. JA is telling you he doesn't care what you think.
How dare you disagree with the great JA!
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 02 2010,12:29) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 02 2010,12:20) Hi JustAskin, Is this Post really to me or meant for MikeBoll64 instead?
You seem to be speaking to Mike while addressing me?Could you please explain what this means?…
…'How you find one person at one time or another is your own affair.'…
Hi Ed,You made the mistake of saying you find me open-minded. JA is telling you he doesn't care what you think.
How dare you disagree with the great JA!
mike
Hi Mike,HA Ha ha ha.
Well, I do see the stubborn side of you too.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMike,
You strain at a gnat. You look but you don't see, you read but you don't understand.I have explained your question to you already. You want a 'fantastic' answer. It's not a fantastic answer, reason, it's a simply, so easy to understand answer.
This is why you strain at it. You are looking for MORE than there is, the 'oh, is that it…nah, there MUST be more' response.Mike, why was David more righteous than his brothers?
Yes Mike, use fractal Scriptures. The answers are all in there!God loved Jesus 'More than the others' because he was 'more righteous than the others', 'because he love righteousness and hated iniquity'…more than the others.
You can't accept this, oh so simple explanation because it means having to say who 'the others' are.
And, clearly, they cannot be the Disciples.
So, who ARE the 'others', 'the Princes of whom one has fallen', and one is Gabriel, 'who stands in the presence of God', and another is 'Michael', the captain of the armies of angelic hosts of God.
Two Archangels at least.And who is 'Lucifer' (by the name we give him). Lucifer MUST be as powerful as they else he could not have done what he did. Nor could he have challenged God, nor be made 'God' of the earth. The other angels were thrown down from their position, but Lucifer was not, why? Not until Jesus triumphed over sin and death, thus proving Satan, the deceiver of men, to be wrong, wrong that any of mankind could live a sinless life and resist temptation, that mankind could live without God and His Holy Spirit.
(How old was Adam when he sinned?
He would have to be, imo, the same age as Jesus was when Jesus was tested, imo.)Hebrews 5:5,
“For CHRIST did not take upon himself the glory of BECOMING a High Priest. But it was God who said to him, 'You are my Son, today I have begotten you.'”So here we see 'Christ Becoming' High Priest when God said, '…Today…'
For it was not 'when he was created' that he 'became High Priest' but when he was glorified by God after his ressurection.
But now, please Mikeboll64, show us where you will still argue with the Apostle who wrote Heb 5:5 and how God says to
JesusChrist in verse 6, 'You are a Priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.' when Jesus was created??Perhaps Hebrews 5:12 might be worth studying a little closer.
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 02 2010,17:45) And who is 'Lucifer' (by the name we give him). Lucifer MUST be as powerful as they else he could not have done what he did. Nor could he have challenged God, nor be made 'God' of the earth. The other angels were thrown down from their position, but Lucifer was not, why? Not until Jesus triumphed over sin and death, thus proving Satan, the deceiver of men, to be wrong, wrong that any of mankind could live a sinless life and resist temptation, that mankind could live without God and His Holy Spirit.
Hi JA,Even I could challenge God. I won't win, just like Satan won't, but anyone can challenge Him. Agreed?
And as I understand it, the “other” 1/3 of the angels are thrown out of heaven right along with Satan, not at a different time.
And what I'm getting at is why do you think God loved Jesus even MORE than His “natural” firstborn, Satan, right from the start? That is what you said, right?
And do you agree that all things visible and invisible came through Jesus? Or do you still think the “bad guy” that all things REALLY came through had his accomplishments “expunged”?
Look JA, your are right that this is simple. All things visible and invisible were created through Jesus and only Jesus. In my humble opinion, that easily makes Jesus superior to anything else from the very beginning.
mike
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 03 2010,06:12) Hebrews 5:5,
“For CHRIST did not take upon himself the glory of BECOMING a High Priest. But it was God who said to him, 'You are my Son, today I have begotten you.'”So here we see 'Christ Becoming' High Priest when God said, '…Today…'
For it was not 'when he was created' that he 'became High Priest' but when he was glorified by God after his ressurection.
But now, please Mikeboll64, show us where you will still argue with the Apostle who wrote Heb 5:5 and how God says to
JesusChrist in verse 6, 'You are a Priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.' when Jesus was created??Perhaps Hebrews 5:12 might be worth studying a little closer.
And what does this part mean?7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
To me, this says that although he already was the Son that was mentioned in the Psalm, he still was made to learn obediance from suffering and, once made perfect, was designated as high priest.
Can you show me how it CAN'T POSSIBLY mean that? If not, it proves nothing, and we are right back to these scriptures:
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Which one of these scriptures makes you think that all things were created through anyone else but Jesus? And why?
mike
Mike,
You have turned into a Snake…
You are well aware of your thrashing tail, or 'tale'…
Hebrews 5:5 clearly states that God said, 'You are my Son, today I have become your father' (Another version).
Your wriggling has no effect on me.
“Son”, 'son of God' is Anyone who has the Holy Spirit of God, which includes all the Angels, and Adam…
Mike, why don't you stop falling into Sin on these points…right now…
In the beginning, ALL of God's creation of sentient manner, are Sons of God, everyone of them, they were all pure Spirit made from the one God.
Mike, read the rest of Hebrews 5 & 6.Remove the Satanic blinkers from your eyes. You know you are mistaken…
Look, take the door to the 'Right', do the right thing.
Acknowledge that you were mistaken…for there is more glory in heaven over one who turns to truth than in all those who are already in truth…come over to us, Mike, and join the throng, for your own sake ..and the Glory of God and the justification of Jesus' Sacrifice.
Jesus, himself said, 'what of it if i am the Son of God'.
Do you feel this means he is the 'Only Son'.
Mike, you are hard of learning. A worse Thomas, you are, because even he believed when shown truth.
Jesus was saying he was the only Son of God 'in the flesh', 'the second Adam'.
Mike, reconcile your ideas with Scriptures. I asked, suggested, you profile your thoughts on these matters…you throw the idea back at me…why Mike, why?
Mike, how do you link your scriptural reading with your understanding…clearly they are not in accord.
You seem to be just picking a verse, or point, and then simply search for what you think fits….for each point.
The trouble with this method is that no two verses or points will, or may, concord by the 'random' selective process you use.
What does Hebrews say about Jesus becoming High Priest…how can you dispute the verse…desparation, fear of being seen to be wrong, unwillingness to be corrected…Mike, you are fighting the World of Truth as if it were your brother…
Even without telling us about your brother i would have known it was something like that.
Mike, you are in ain, you are so hurt, you are wounding yourself trying to gain self worth and for people to say, 'Hey Mike, you are right'.
Pride, Mike, Pride, is what you seek…and it will be your downfall.Hebrews says that Jesus was 'perfected', why would the 'Son of God' in the way you think of him, need to be 'perfected' if he is the 'very god from God'.
See Mike, you bring a form of 'Trinity' to your thoughts and ideas.
If Jesus 'emptied himself' of his divinity, his 'godness of God', his being 'Son of God', is he then still then, 'Son of God' by the 'godness of God'?
No, he is Man, by the 'image of God', he is 'Son of Man' by man, but a Holy Spirited Man, as was Adam…hence, by his actions on earth and holding to the truth and his God and resisting sin, he became perfect in the eyes of God, as would Adam if he had prevailed, as ALL who follow Christ…
Read Hebrews 5 & 6, Mike…and read without your blinkers.
Mike,
You are struggling with your ability to reconcile your thoughts with Scriptures.
You post concerning 'Lucifer'…you sound like you trying to say there were no others in Heaven when the creation was in progress.
When I explain my 'thoughts', you turn them into 'fact' and then attack them.
My point about Lucifer, and i didn't say that Lucifer created everything…you are saying that i said that to then dispute it…in other words, create a false claim and then refute it…good tactic Mike. But if it's the only way you gonna win an argument i guess it's what you gotta do!
It is well known that the 'Firstborn' inherits all. That means all the accollades. It matters not what the 'others' did, only the inheritor is applauded.
I use the perfect analogy of the house and the builder…even Hebrews 5 uses it, Mike, doesn't it?
So who built the house? Certainly not the 'builder' by himself…but only the 'Builder' is mentioned.
Mike, you are being stubborn of wisdom because you hate admit you were wrong…or that anotheris Right… Nothing more…
You, too, would use the same analogy in my place…
Mike, is it so hard to 'agree' with anyone.
Mike, is it so hard to admit that you might have been wrong?
Mike, why not do the right thing…because …it is the right thing to do, why not Mike.
JA:
Quote Hebrews 5:5 clearly states that God said, 'You are my Son, today I have become your father' (Another version).
It says that although he WAS ALREADY THE SON…………he suffered in order to be made perfect, and was designated as High Priest. Am I missing something?JA:
Quote come over to us, Mike, and join the throng, for your own sake ..
Are there others here who believe Satan was God's original firstborn?JA:
Quote Jesus, himself said, 'what of it if i am the Son of God'. Do you feel this means he is the 'Only Son'.
Not the only “son”, but the only begotten Son. And he was that long before he was raised. Scripture tells us so.JA:
Quote Jesus was saying he was the only Son of God 'in the flesh', 'the second Adam'.
Is it your contention that while Jesus was in the flesh, there was no other human in existence who was a “holy spirited son of God”?JA:
Quote Hebrews says that Jesus was 'perfected', why would the 'Son of God' in the way you think of him, need to be 'perfected' if he is the 'very god from God'.
I think you're confusing me with Kathi. I don't think Jesus was created “perfect”. I think the angels and mankind are all created with a free will. Jesus didn't HAVE to follow his God's will…….but he CHOSE to do that. I think every angel in existence today has the free will to obey God or refuse to obey God. I think they have a more physical reason to choose to obey God than we humans do. What we can only see through faith, they are able to witness with their own eyes.It seems that alot of people think that since Jesus was God's Son, he could never do any wrong. I think that is a scripturally proven fallacy. Do you know someone who has a “good kid” who is honest and always does the right thing? Chances are that kid has a sibling who has rebelled against his parents and everything “good” from an early stage in his life. I think the same applies to God's heavenly children – some are “good kids” that try hard to please their Father, while others are “rebels”. And the fact that Jesus was the first “kid” doesn't change the fact that it has always been his choice whether to obey his Father or rebel against Him.
JA:
Quote You post concerning 'Lucifer'…you sound like you trying to say there were no others in Heaven when the creation was in progress.
That's EXACTLY what I've been trying to say. At least at the BEGINNING of the creation process. All things invisible were created through Jesus. Angels are invisible. You try to avoid this scriptural truth by claiming the “all” didn't really mean “all”. But if you're right, and the angels were there beside Jesus at the beginning of the creation of everything else, then why was everything else created through ONLY Jesus?JA:
Quote It is well known that the 'Firstborn' inherits all. That means all the accollades. It matters not what the 'others' did, only the inheritor is applauded.
Yes, the “inheritor” is applauded. But the “losers” are also mentioned throughout scripture……..AND………scripture is the very TRUTH. Both of those are very good reasons to dismiss your theory that things came to be through Satan and/or “others”, since scripture says things came into existence through ONLY Jesus, and although Satan was “bad”, he would still be mentioned as the one all things came through if it had in fact happened that way.And Kathi and I have correctly shown that the ONLY time in scripture that a “firstborn” isn't literally the “one born first” is when it is CLEARLY known to us that it was an “appointment” to that position. All other mentions of “firstborn” simply mean “the one born first”. So, do you know of any scripture that CLEARLY explains to us who the “original firstborn of all creation” was before Jesus was “appointed” to that position? If not, then the default of “the one who was born first” applies.
I don't understand your “builder” analogy here. Are you saying that as the “General Contractor”, Jesus is the only one given credit although many other “subcontractors” also participated?
JA:
Quote Mike, why not do the right thing…because …it is the right thing to do, why not Mike.
I prefer to believe the scriptures JA. Not what YOU determine is “the right thing”. And speaking of scriptures, will you answer to the ones I posted in my last response?The ones that say “all things visible AND invisible came through only Jesus”, “everything came through only Jesus” and “not one thing came into existence without only Jesus”? That is a whole bunch of “alls”, “everythings” and “not one things” to eliminate using the “all doesn't really mean all” rebuttal.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ Nov. 03 2010,20:43) Mike, You have turned into a Snake…
You are well aware of your thrashing tail, or 'tale'…
Hebrews 5:5 clearly states that God said, 'You are my Son, today I have become your father' (Another version).
Your wriggling has no effect on me.
“Son”, 'son of God' is Anyone who has the Holy Spirit of God, which includes all the Angels, and Adam…
Mike, why don't you stop falling into Sin on these points…right now…
In the beginning, ALL of God's creation of sentient manner, are Sons of God, everyone of them, they were all pure Spirit made from the one God.
Mike, read the rest of Hebrews 5 & 6.Remove the Satanic blinkers from your eyes. You know you are mistaken…
Look, take the door to the 'Right', do the right thing.
Acknowledge that you were mistaken…for there is more glory in heaven over one who turns to truth than in all those who are already in truth…come over to us, Mike, and join the throng, for your own sake ..and the Glory of God and the justification of Jesus' Sacrifice.
Jesus, himself said, 'what of it if i am the Son of God'.
Do you feel this means he is the 'Only Son'.
Mike, you are hard of learning. A worse Thomas, you are, because even he believed when shown truth.
Jesus was saying he was the only Son of God 'in the flesh', 'the second Adam'.
Mike, reconcile your ideas with Scriptures. I asked, suggested, you profile your thoughts on these matters…you throw the idea back at me…why Mike, why?
Mike, how do you link your scriptural reading with your understanding…clearly they are not in accord.
You seem to be just picking a verse, or point, and then simply search for what you think fits….for each point.
The trouble with this method is that no two verses or points will, or may, concord by the 'random' selective process you use.
What does Hebrews say about Jesus becoming High Priest…how can you dispute the verse…desparation, fear of being seen to be wrong, unwillingness to be corrected…Mike, you are fighting the World of Truth as if it were your brother…
Even without telling us about your brother i would have known it was something like that.
Mike, you are in ain, you are so hurt, you are wounding yourself trying to gain self worth and for people to say, 'Hey Mike, you are right'.
Pride, Mike, Pride, is what you seek…and it will be your downfall.Hebrews says that Jesus was 'perfected', why would the 'Son of God' in the way you think of him, need to be 'perfected' if he is the 'very god from God'.
See Mike, you bring a form of 'Trinity' to your thoughts and ideas.
If Jesus 'emptied himself' of his divinity, his 'godness of God', his being 'Son of God', is he then still then, 'Son of God' by the 'godness of God'?
No, he is Man, by the 'image of God', he is 'Son of Man' by man, but a Holy Spirited Man, as was Adam…hence, by his actions on earth and holding to the truth and his God and resisting sin, he became perfect in the eyes of God, as would Adam if he had prevailed, as ALL who follow Christ…
Read Hebrews 5 & 6, Mike…and read without your blinkers.
You are struggling with your ability to reconcile your thoughts with Scriptures.
You post concerning 'Lucifer'…you sound like you trying to say there were no others in Heaven when the creation was in progress.
When I explain my 'thoughts', you turn them into 'fact' and then attack them.
My point about Lucifer, and i didn't say that Lucifer created everything…you are saying that i said that to then dispute it…in other words, create a false claim and then refute it…good tactic Mike. But if it's the only way you gonna win an argument i guess it's what you gotta do!
It is well known that the 'Firstborn' inherits all. That means all the accollades. It matters not what the 'others' did, only the inheritor is applauded.
I use the perfect analogy of the house and the builder…even Hebrews 5 uses it, Mike, doesn't it?
So who built the house? Certainly not the 'builder' by himself…but only the 'Builder' is mentioned.
Mike, you are being stubborn of wisdom because you hate admit you were wrong…or that anotheris Right… Nothing more…
You, too, would use the same analogy in my place…
Mike, is it so hard to 'agree' with anyone.
Mike, is it so hard to admit that you might have been wrong?
Mike, why not do the right thing…because …it is the right thing to do, why not Mike.
Hey JA, the above is how long your two posts were to me today. Below is how long they are when we eliminate all the personal insults and senseless chatter that has nothing to do with what we're discussing:Quote Mike, Hebrews 5:5 clearly states that God said, 'You are my Son, today I have become your father' (Another version).
“Son”, 'son of God' is Anyone who has the Holy Spirit of God, which includes all the Angels, and Adam…
In the beginning, ALL of God's creation of sentient manner, are Sons of God, everyone of them, they were all pure Spirit made from the one God.
Mike, read the rest of Hebrews 5 & 6.Jesus, himself said, 'what of it if i am the Son of God'.
Do you feel this means he is the 'Only Son'.
Jesus was saying he was the only Son of God 'in the flesh', 'the second Adam'.
Mike, reconcile your ideas with Scriptures. I asked, suggested, you profile your thoughts on these matters…you throw the idea back at me…why Mike, why?
Mike, how do you link your scriptural reading with your understanding…clearly they are not in accord.
You seem to be just picking a verse, or point, and then simply search for what you think fits….for each point.
The trouble with this method is that no two verses or points will, or may, concord by the 'random' selective process you use.
What does Hebrews say about Jesus becoming High Priest…how can you dispute the verse.
Hebrews says that Jesus was 'perfected', why would the 'Son of God' in the way you think of him, need to be 'perfected' if he is the 'very god from God'.
See Mike, you bring a form of 'Trinity' to your thoughts and ideas.
If Jesus 'emptied himself' of his divinity, his 'godness of God', his being 'Son of God', is he then still then, 'Son of God' by the 'godness of God'?
No, he is Man, by the 'image of God', he is 'Son of Man' by man, but a Holy Spirited Man, as was Adam…hence, by his actions on earth and holding to the truth and his God and resisting sin, he became perfect in the eyes of God, as would Adam if he had prevailed, as ALL who follow Christ…
Read Hebrews 5 & 6, Mike…and read without your blinkers.
You post concerning 'Lucifer'…you sound like you trying to say there were no others in Heaven when the creation was in progress.
When I explain my 'thoughts', you turn them into 'fact' and then attack them.
My point about Lucifer, and i didn't say that Lucifer created everything…you are saying that i said that to then dispute it…
It is well known that the 'First
born' inherits all. That means all the accollades. It matters not what the 'others' did, only the inheritor is applauded.I use the perfect analogy of the house and the builder…even Hebrews 5 uses it, Mike, doesn't it?
So who built the house? Certainly not the 'builder' by himself…but only the 'Builder' is mentioned.
You, too, would use the same analogy in my place…
Big difference, huh? From 43 lines to 23.
mike
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