Was jesus always superior

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 22 2010,01:41)

Mike………..First of all i believe Jesus did preexist (IN THE PLAN AND WILL OF GOD) Just as we all Preexisted (IN THE PLAN AND WILL OF GOD). what i do not believe is Jesus or Us preexisted as Living Beings before we were born as flesh and blood being on earth . Just wanted to clarify that.

peace and love…………………………gene

Gene

would you logic apply to this ;

wen in my early years in management i had notice that there was a lot of idiots who were in charge of responsibility's s they cannot manage,;;;

would this mean that all others are included in my mind as preexisting ,even if they are not born yet???

Pierre

November 21, 2010 at 10:01 pm#225963

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Terrica……….Well now i am an Idiot right, First a Satan , a devil and now an Idiot, What by chance are you may i ask?. Is that what you think about everyone who disagree with you they are all Idiots right?

peace and love……………………………….gene

November 23, 2010 at 2:20 am#226105

Blocked

Bump for JA

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 22 2010,05:03)

Yet, even as i conceded that Principalities also alluded to a person, you still continue….the debate was then over… One page….a record…

Hi JA,

I don't remembering you conceding that the word “principalities” DOES refer to persons.

If that's the case, then you agree that the angels were created through Jesus, right?

JA, do you now REALLY believe that angels are the INVISIBLE RULERS IN HEAVEN who were created through Jesus?

mike

November 23, 2010 at 3:46 am#226109

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 22 2010,15:01)

peace and love……………………………….gene

Gene

why,why,why,?

are you doing that ,you know this is not what i was saying but this is what you wanted to see is it???

Pierre

November 24, 2010 at 3:57 am#226255

Blocked

Hi Gene and Pierre,

I almost posted last night that Pierre wasn't calling Gene an idiot in his post.

But then I thought I'd stay out of it.

Gene, Pierre never implied that you were an idiot. Re-read his post.

mike

November 24, 2010 at 5:26 am#226281

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 22 2010,15:01)

peace and love……………………………….gene

gene

i also have notice that you never respond to a comment and show that comment;this will allow you to use your own remarks in a different environment ,

because there is not a sign of why you say that and so give it a live on is own.

true sign of dishonest behavior,

Pierre

November 24, 2010 at 9:27 am#226302

Participant

Mikeboll,

Name me one Angel who is a ruler in heaven.

The debate question was answered and you were right. Principalities can mean an individual, therefore Animate. So, yes, you won.

Therefore that debate is over. Ended. Just as i said.

What you did was to limit your debate question so explicitly that it left no room for expansion….think a bit wider scope next time…and further more, learn How and When, to END a debate… This was my intention in debating with you…

November 24, 2010 at 5:49 pm#226335

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 25 2010,02:27)

Mikeboll,

Name me one Angel who is a ruler in heaven.

The debate question was answered and you were right. Principalities can mean an individual, therefore Animate. So, yes, you won.

Therefore that debate is over. Ended. Just as i said.

IN REGARDS TO ANGELS;why are they classes in heaven ,
like ark angel,and angels,cherubim,are those not classes of power levels between angels???

Pierre

November 24, 2010 at 7:01 pm#226337

Participant

Terra,

And who is claiming that there are not classes of Angels.

In fact, that was MY First point to Mikeboll.

I said that Jesus, through Jesus, it was the 'positions', the Stations, of the Angels that were created…so, please put this to Mikeboll.

It also show, Terra, that you are not reading what I have written, just sniping at passing posts….if you were reading what i was writing you would know that what you just said 'was my view from the start'.

Now, since you seem to be attacking me and in support of Mikeboll, perhaps you can answer the question above…please name me one ruling Angel.

Are Angels Rulers? Is there a Scripture verse saying that an Angel is a ruler…? Romans 8:38 says, 'for i am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor ANGELS, nor [Heavenly] RULERS…', so…if there are 'Angels', AND there are 'Rulers', …are Angels Rulers…..for there is Death, AND there is Life…so is Death then Life? And there are present things, and things to come…so, are present things then things to come?
And these 'Rulers' are said to be wicked forces…so through Jesus, these wicked Rulers were created before the world was made….interesting!!!

Is Satan a ruler? (loaded question)…

November 24, 2010 at 7:44 pm#226338

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 25 2010,12:01)

Terra,

And who is claiming that there are not classes of Angels.

In fact, that was MY First point to Mikeboll.

I said that Jesus, through Jesus, it was the 'positions', the Stations, of the Angels that were created…so, please put this to Mikeboll.

Now, since you seem to be attacking me and in support of Mikeboll, perhaps you can answer the question above…please name me one ruling Angel.

Is Satan a ruler? (loaded question)…

well we agree on the classes of angels,right?yes we do.

is satan a ruler?in heaven he was a cherubim,so a high rang angel.
and had received to be the communicator between men and God,
and then failed and made himself the ruler of men,so to speak.
and so became the ruler of this world.

Pierre

November 24, 2010 at 7:55 pm#226340

Participant

about rulers in heaven,read this;Mt 18:3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 18:4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 18:5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me.

and this as well;;Mt 20:25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
Mt 20:26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,
Mt 20:27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave—
Mt 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

this is also the rule in heaven,

Pierre

November 24, 2010 at 7:56 pm#226341

shimmer

Participant

Hi JA.

I cant think of anything (you know, what I said)…to disagree on ?

JA, you know how Enoch if you have ever read the books of Enoch, He knew all about the Angels etc.

And no-one listened to him,

In Enoch one is seen that looks like the son of man, this is supposed to be Jesus, who the gentiles follow, something like that.

November 25, 2010 at 3:47 am#226397

shimmer

Participant

Don't worry JA, i'm just rambling…..forget that….smoking withdrawal's again….

November 25, 2010 at 4:32 am#226405

Blocked

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 24 2010,19:27)

Mikeboll,

Name me one Angel who is a ruler in heaven.

The debate question was answered and you were right. Principalities can mean an individual, therefore Animate. So, yes, you won.

Therefore that debate is over. Ended. Just as i said.

Okay my friend. I will remember how to END a debate just like you taught me:

1. Claim unscriptural things.
2. Concede I was wrong.

All done. Thanks JA……..I'll maybe try that in my next debate.

November 25, 2010 at 4:40 am#226406

Blocked

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 24 2010,19:27)

Mikeboll,

Name me one Angel who is a ruler in heaven.

That's easy JA. Michael the archangel. He is a ruler or “chief” of other angels.

Now, why don't you DIRECTLY answer a question of mine for once – and prove you're even worthy of my time and effort?

The “arch” in “archangel”, signifying that Michael is a “ruler angel” is the same word your KJV translates as “principalities” in Col 1:16.

These “arches” were created THROUGH Jesus. Not just some of them, but ALL INVISIBLE ARCHES IN HEAVEN and visible ones on earth.

Here's the one question:

JA, do you believe that “arch” in “archangel” means that Michael is a “ruler-angel”?

If not, please tell me what you THINK the “arch” part means in reference to Michael.

mike

November 25, 2010 at 4:47 am#226407

Blocked

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 25 2010,05:01)

Romans 8:38 says, 'for i am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor ANGELS, nor [Heavenly] RULERS…',

Hi JA,

The word [heavenly] is not in the Greek text. You can look it up on NETNotes and find out why some add it.

JA, ALL INVISIBLE THINGS IN HEAVEN were created through Jesus, whether they be rulers, powers or authorities. That's what the scripture says. Believe it or don't.

mike

November 25, 2010 at 7:10 pm#226485

Participant

S'truth Mike,

Why you stressing with futility?

Michael is an Arche Angel…what of it?

So Michael is a wicked Angel that Jesus will destroy?

And who else is ruling Angel? You struggled to name one…yes, i was remiss and let you have ONE….

Who are the 'Wicked Angels' that were created through Jesus?

Asa matter of fact, two further questions:

Why did Jesus create these wicked Angels only to claim triumph by destroying them?

Since Satan…aka Lucifer brought sin into the world, was it not Satan then that 'created', brought into being, …in spirit…these wicked Angels…yet you do not mention Satan as a ruling Angel….

Yet, Satan is the greatest 'Ruling Angel' as he even has his own Kingdom…the whole Earth….
So, did Jesus create Satan?

Why did Satan think he was worthy of Worship, seeing that he took no part in the creation process?
Is that not a weird thing…claiming the greatest glory, even over his creator, when he did nothing but cheered when it was done?
And then, God gives him his own Kingdom…???and he takes down one third of the angels of heaven…must have been one 'mighty powerful' angel….do you know another 'mighty powerful' in heaven? What is his name? I bet you know?

And, …yeah, yeah, i can't count… If Jesus as preJesus is an exact copy of God but 'visible'….why is he compared with the Angels…God is never compared to Angels…oh, please, no sillyness. I mean 'meaty' comparisons…

Why would 'the Mighty God' be compared to mere Angels…even to the point of saying how much 'more' better? he is than them.

Surely, you only make comparisons like that if the two were of the same nature or form and, better, both?

Mikeboll says he is 'Soooo much better' than an Ape. I struggle to see the difference!

November 25, 2010 at 7:41 pm#226486

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 22 2010,07:36)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 22 2010,01:41)

peace and love…………………………gene

Gene

would you logic apply to this ;

wen in my early years in management i had notice that there was a lot of idiots who were in charge of responsibility's s they cannot manage,;;;

would this mean that all others are included in my mind as preexisting ,even if they are not born yet???

Pierre

Terricca………….First of all What you said makes NO Sense at all to anyone, and why call them “Idiots” in the first place, They may be quite smarter the you are Then and Now. And you were using that to compare my (LOGIC) post to mike. So don't give me that crap of not calling me an Idiot even if it is by comparison, to you so-called Idiots in management.

So who really is the Liar Here you and your support Mike, or me. and Now you call me dishonest. So let see , We have dishonest, Idiot, Satan, a Devil, Blind, etc.. What is next i am sure you guys will find something more to add.

peace and love……………………..gene

November 25, 2010 at 8:20 pm#226494

Participant

Oh, by the way Mike, are you saying that Michael, said to be the 'Captain' of the army of the heavenly host, is the same as a 'Ruler'…is 'Captain' the same as 'Ruler'??

And where in Scriptures does it mention more than one 'ArcheAngel'
(for proof only)
You flippantly mention, 'ArcheAngels'…name another 'ArcheAngel' from Scriptures…

And another thing…what things are 'Visible' in Heaven..and which things are 'Invisible' in Heaven?

November 25, 2010 at 8:46 pm#226495