Was jesus always superior

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 15 2010,06:46)

JA you should not take and show half of Paul comment; Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Why not?

God bless
eD j (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 16 2010,07:27)

Hi Kerwin, I don't know what you are referring to. mike

Mike Boll,

Your comment that the thread is obviously a discussion of the preexistence level of the superiority of Jesus. I myself did not understand it that way.

[JustAskin]

Ok, guys, here is a show stopper..

No, Jesus was not always superior because at one point he was 'made lower than the Angels' and even under the rule of Satan and subject to Sin.

He triumphed over his lowly state and was raised to a position higher than the Angels….

So, there it is…

You may now continue…if the thread title question is not answered by this.

Mike, lesrn how to close a question…

[GeneBalthrop]

JA…………….I totally agree with you on that. lets see how Mike can override that and keep this going to further is preexistence ideologies going.

peace and love…………………………………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 17 2010,03:16)

Ok, guys, here is a show stopper.. No, Jesus was not always superior because at one point he was 'made lower than the Angels' and even under the rule of Satan and subject to Sin. He triumphed over his lowly state and was raised to a position higher than the Angels…. So, there it is… You may now continue…if the thread title question is not answered by this. Mike, lesrn how to close a question…

JA

Christ always was in a higher position but only by his creation,

wen he came down to fulfill the law and be sacrificed ,he became lower than angels,after his sacrifice was accomplished he became higher than the angels not because of his birthright but for the deeds he performed at a lower stage for all humanity,and creation as well .
so Christ was always higher and superior
this is true and the truth.

Pierre

[terraricca]

AJ

Christ was always higher even wen he was on earth ,Paul say so ;Heb;1;5-Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father’” ?

Pierre

[kerwin]

Pierre,

In Heb 1:5 the writer is arguing that Jesus is not an angel as if no angel is called the Son of God then Jesus cannot be an angel.

Earlier in Hebrews Jesus is called a man when the writer stated “man was created a little lower than the angels” and proceeded to treat Jesus as a man but stating he was elevated from that lowly status to one higher than both man and angels.

[terraricca]

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 17 2010,03:16)

Ok, guys, here is a show stopper.. No, Jesus was not always superior because at one point he was 'made lower than the Angels' and even under the rule of Satan and subject to Sin. He triumphed over his lowly state and was raised to a position higher than the Angels…. So, there it is… You may now continue…if the thread title question is not answered by this. Mike, lesrn how to close a question…

JA
being made lower does not mean he was not superior,
look at nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon for 7 years he eat with the cows,and was still King of his kingdom,right ??

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 18 2010,00:41)

Pierre, In Heb 1:5 the writer is arguing that Jesus is not an angel as if no angel is called the Son of God then Jesus cannot be an angel. Earlier in Hebrews Jesus is called a man when the writer stated “man was created a little lower than the angels” and proceeded to treat Jesus as a man but stating he was elevated from that lowly status to one higher than both man and angels.

Kerwin

Heb 1:1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
Heb 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
Heb 1:4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father’” ?

Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son” ?

we know that angel means messager ,so which of all messager is the greatest??? Christ right ??

he was made to come and live like men and save them from sin ,this he did,right???

but God made him his first creation,before all others.
unless you start to look for understanding of the spirit of Christ you never will understand Jesus Christ,

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 16 2010,16:11)

Hi Mike, With this type of Post (you explain), you need to separate his Points into a Post for each and explaining them all separately. This fry's both WJ and SF when you do this, because they both think their many point long Posts have much merit.

Yeah Ed. I have to admit that I like the way you just add numbers to each of the points in the post and answer them one at a time.

But what I'm saying here is that there is no need to post every single thing you understand from scripture in one post.

Point at a time works so much better if you ask me.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 16 2010,16:21)

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 15 2010,05:30) To all, Check the 'Mike vs ja' debate. Mike asks a quesion but when he gets the answer that 'HE' doesn't like he rephrases it, or simply ignores the response, and continues to claim that he has not been answered. Hi JustAskin, Yes, you are 100% correct; Mike does do that! But I don't mind as long as he keeps wording his question differently. That way you can keep giving him different answers he doesn't like. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

I challenge you and JA to put your money where your mouth is.  

JA, show me where you DIRECTLY and COMPLETLY and HONESTLY answered this bolded question:

Now, here is the very simple question JA.  Col 1:16 says all invisible rulers in heaven were created through Jesus.  Now aside from God Himself who isn't a “creation” and Jesus, who could not logically be said to be created through himself, is there any logical SCRIPTURAL reason for you to insist this doesn't include the angels?  

If not “angels”, then who are these invisible powers, rulers and authorities in heaven who were created through Jesus?

And Ed, show me one time where you answered a question and I immediately asked it again.  I'm not talking about asking the same question a month later.  And I'm not talking about asking a related question that clarifies EXACTLY what I was really wanting to know the first time.

Show me where you answered, and in my response to your answer, I just asked the same question again.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 16 2010,19:17)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 16 2010,07:27) Hi Kerwin, I don't know what you are referring to. mike Mike Boll, Your comment that the thread is obviously a discussion of the preexistence level of the superiority of Jesus.  I myself did not understand it that way.

Okay. Well that IS what the thread is about. And I've asked Gene to keep the non-preexistent stuff out of here. This is a discussion between people who all believe that Jesus pre-existed.

mike

[mikeboll64]

JA:

Quote

No, Jesus was not always superior because at one point he was 'made lower than the Angels' and even under the rule of Satan and subject to Sin.

So according to you, Jesus was nothing at all until he became a man?

This is what Paul said,

9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while,

So yes JA, FOR A LITTLE WHILE Jesus was made as a human and was AT THAT TIME “a little lower than the angels”, as are all humans.  But read a little farther,

14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity

Are you now a non-preexister JA?  Or do you realize that this referred ONLY to when Jesus became flesh?

JA:

Quote

Mike, lesrn how to close a question…

JA, learn how to answer one.

Now, here is the very simple question JA.  Col 1:16 says all invisible rulers in heaven were created through Jesus.  Now aside from God Himself who isn't a “creation” and Jesus, who could not logically be said to be created through himself, is there any logical SCRIPTURAL reason for you to insist this doesn't include the angels?  

If not “angels”, then who are these invisible powers, rulers and authorities in heaven who were created through Jesus?

Just the bolded part would be fine, thanks.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 17 2010,01:32)

JA…………….I totally agree with you on that. lets see how Mike can override that and keep this going to further is preexistence ideologies going. peace and love…………………………………………………gene

Gene,

I've asked you nicely three times now. If you try again to make this thread into a pre-existent discussion, I will block you.

mike

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 18 2010,13:28)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 16 2010,16:21) Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 15 2010,05:30) To all, Check the 'Mike vs ja' debate. Mike asks a quesion but when he gets the answer that 'HE' doesn't like he rephrases it, or simply ignores the response, and continues to claim that he has not been answered. Hi JustAskin, Yes, you are 100% correct; Mike does do that! But I don't mind as long as he keeps wording his question differently. That way you can keep giving him different answers he doesn't like. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I challenge you Ed, show me one time where you answered a question and I immediately asked it again.  I'm not talking about asking the same question a month later.  And I'm not talking about asking a related question that clarifies EXACTLY what I was really wanting to know the first time. Show me where you answered, and in my response to your answer, I just asked the same question again. mike

Hi Mike,

The PROOF that I was indeed answering your question,
is evidenced by you repackaging it in different forms!
These are (in essence) the same question, repackaged
over and over, for what can be illustrated by Luke 11:54.

(Mike) Laying wait for him(Ed J), and seeking to catch something
out of his(Ed J's) mouth, that they(Mike) might accuse him(Ed J). (Luke 11:54)
But you were unsuccessful, as you proclaimed here…

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 04 2010,14:44)

Ed, my patience with you is wearing thin.

Did you know that the core reason for ALL ANGER, is
a controlling aspect derived from unfulfilled expectations? (James 1:20 / Col.3:8)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2010,14:52)

Okay, so the flesh and blood person of Jesus from Nazareth actually consisted of TWO flesh and blood people then, right?  Which one of the two was the only begotten Son of God?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 22 2010,16:08)

Then Jesus, not the Holy Spirit, is who “became flesh” and dwelled among us, right?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2010,14:16)

Then it was Jesus, not the Holy Spirit, who “became flesh” and dwelled among us, right?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2010,14:52)

Okay, so the flesh and blood person of Jesus from Nazareth actually consisted of TWO flesh and blood people then, right?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 26 2010,11:43)

I had asked:  Okay, so the flesh and blood person of Jesus from Nazareth actually consisted of TWO flesh and blood people then, right?  Which one of the two was the only begotten Son of God?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 26 2010,13:09)

Jesus was already a flesh and blood person before the Jordan, right?  So if the Holy Spirit/Word BECAME a flesh and blood person in the person of Jesus, wouldn't the human body of Jesus be holding TWO flesh and blood people inside it?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 26 2010,14:47)

What is your answer to my question, Ed?  Is your answer, “NO, Jesus remained one flesh and blood person.” ?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,09:36)

So then Jesus was a flesh being.  And the Holy Spirit was also a flesh being within the flesh being of Jesus, right?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 10 2010,14:16)

Ed, can you really not understand that “word” could be referring to God's Spokesman, who is call “the Word”………….OR simply to words someone has spoken?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Pierre,

Hebrews 2 it states that human kind was created a little lower than the angels and that from their ranks Jesus was raised to be King everything in heaven and on earth. This agrees with Matthew 28:18.

Nebuchadnezzar was not lower than his subjects even though he suffered from madness as he was still king.

Please note that the writer of Hebrews 1:1-2 draws a contrast between the past age and the present age and that the difference is God speaks through his Son in the present age and thus not in the past. Why do you think he drew such a contrast?

In Hebrews 1:5 that God tells Jesus “today” I will become your Father. Does that mean he was not Jesus’ Father before that day? If he was then why did he say “today I will become your Father”?

Also in the quoted passage God clearly states “will be” as in the future I will be his Father and he will be my Son, but not at before. How do you explain that?

An angel can be a messenger, as can men, and since that is commonly their roll; beings of the spiritual realms are called messengers just like Satan is the accuser. Jesus being a man can also be a messenger but that does not make him an angel. In addition the writer of scripture asks “For to which of the angels did God ever say…?” What is your answer to him?

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 18 2010,13:41)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 17 2010,01:32) JA…………….I totally agree with you on that. lets see how Mike can override that and keep this going to further is preexistence ideologies going. peace and love…………………………………………………gene Gene, I've asked you nicely three times now.  If you try again to make this thread into a pre-existent discussion, I will block you. mike

Mike………That is the problem letting people like you be monators, You try to control Posts , First we had a Preexistence Thread where we (ALL) could post to it any way we wanted to and use any scriptures we wanted to, then you come along and start fragmenting it, by starting threads on certain scriptures only and then continue to start thread like Preexistence database for (ONLY) those who support your conclusions and a few others , and if that is not enough you start another (EXCLUSIVENESS WORK) by starting a “Was Jesus alway superior Post”, and asking us to only post if we believe Jesus did preexist, was he always superior. And if we say no because He did not alway exist , you start you trash talk of blocking the posts. this is only to orchestrate Posts to draw your own personal conclusions as you falsely believe and force them on those who disagree with you and your conclusion.

Why don't you just with T8 permission just kick everyone off the sit (except for you and T8, Irene, and Terricca).

Peace and love…………………………………..gene

[JustAskin]

Mikeboll,
Keep struggling with introductory English language, Logic, Linguistics and Cognition.

Since when did Jesus being 'made lower for a little while' mean explicitly that he was greater/Superior before.

Certainly it may be included, but he could also have been 'the same'.

More over, we not even discussing if he was superior BEFORE he was man…see you moving the goal post again…

I already said that Jesus was made senior because he was more righteous than the others, so what's your beef?

Mike, p.l.e.a.s.e….. the most senior manager was voluntarily demoted to demonstrate to the rest of the staff how the job should be carried out.

While he was demoted, he experienced all the prejudice, pain, low pay, oil and grease, long hours, bad food, negativity towards management, and no matter how much he tried to tell them how much management actually cared for them and that if they would just do things like he was doing then they too would achieve a raise in pay, a monumental bonus at the end…but they wanted their bonus now, where they would squander it…gamble it away…trawler fishermen gambling with whales and fishes and losing….when the land on shore they have nothing and die…

Mike, being Senior of the senior management…he was like the other managers until he was seen to be more righteous.

The one expected to be senior…Lucifer, because he was the most gloriously arrayed, thought 'I should be worshipped, too…look at me, aren't i splendid'…like Jesse's senior son…did not Samuel go to anoint him, then God said, 'No, not him' and Samuel said, 'But why…look at him, the very nature of a king' but God said, 'but you look on the outer person, i look at the Spirit. No, there is another…modest, Godfearing, dutiful, righteous in my eyes…before my face' (Note that it by God's view of righteous, not man's)

And, Mikeboll, being ''made lower 'for a little while'''. Even if he was less than superior for a little why, does that not answer the thread question…'Was Jesus ALWAYS Superior'

Why do you struggle so…the answer is 'No'…because…'for a little while he was LOWER'…

You keep going on saying, telling others in your vain pathetic way, that I am saying that Lucifer was God's Firstborn…

I said it was a theory based o fractal Scriptures…is this the only way you can 'try' to attack me? Is that all you got? Poor you? 'Firstborn of Spirit'..Mikeboll, is not like 'first born of Flesh'….what is it you cannot understand, why always fleshly thinking..?

First off, Angels are not 'Born', Angels are Spirits, they are not 'Procreated'…they are created, they are pure Spirit….pure Spirit is directly from God, there is no intermediate state for anyone to be involved in.

All other things are compressed energy…all things in the whole universe, seen or unseen, is Energy, visible things are all energy,…light is energy, matter is compressed energy, everything.

…Angelic Spirit is energy, energy with intelligence. Pure Energy is not bounded by anything…how can it be, it is everywhere at the same time…only when it is to be gathered together, bounded into a body is it then limited to space and time, because that body can only be in one place at one time.

[Lightenup]

Should the question be:
Was the Son of God always superior to the angels until He was lowered for a little whiles below the angels? The answer is YES to that question!

[shimmer]

Isaiah :44:24-26

Thus said Jehovah, thy redeemer, And thy framer from the womb: 'I am Jehovah, doing all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, Spreading out the earth — who is with Me? Making void the tokens of devisers, And diviners it maketh mad, Turning the wise backward, And their knowledge it maketh foolish. Confirming the word of His servant, The counsel of His messengers it perfecteth.

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