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Hi KW,
You say
“My point is that you were teaching from what is not written for it isn't written that angels are not flesh.I know of no where where we are told whether on not angels have bodies or what those bodies are made of.”
What did I teach??
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2014,04:41) Hi WU,
Flesh has a purpose?
Angels are not of flesh and one third are removed from heaven rev 12
Nick,This is what you wrote.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 24 2014,05:54) Mike B. Be glad that we are made of flesh;for now we can know what is good and what is evil.
Angels never can have our experience.
wakeup.
God's spirit sons know good from evil, Wakeup.Genesis 3:5 King James Version
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.Genesis 3:22 New International Version
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.”The “gods” mentioned in Gen 3:5 are the angels, Wakeup. They already knew good from evil. Man didn't at first. I agree with you that man was basically an animal who could talk. Not a care in the world. No way to mess up, since there was no knowledge of what was “good”, and what was “bad”.
But once they ate of the fruit, all that changed.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 24 2014,10:22) Quote (kerwin @ April 25 2014,03:06) I know that on that day man became mortal. Not so; because they have not eaten of the tree of life,
so they always had been mortal.wakeup.
Great point, Wakeup. What PURPOSE would a tree of life have – if the people who lived in the garden where it was were already immortal?Quote (kerwin @ April 24 2014,10:29) Wakeup, Your reasoning is based on the assumption that they had to eat of the tree of life to be immortal and the second assumption that they did not eat of the tree of life before they became mortal. I do not agree with those assumptions as God said they could eat of the tree of life and any other tree of the garden but not of the tree that bore the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.
Kerwin,Are you positing that a person must regularly eat of the tree of life in order to not die?
Because it seems like you are saying that Adam and Eve had continually been eating of that tree of life, but then God took it away when they sinned so that they couldn't KEEP ON eating from it, thereby living forever.
Is that your understanding? That the tree of life must be eaten from on a continual basis?
Quote (kerwin @ April 24 2014,11:40) Nick, It is not written that angels are not flesh………..
It IS written that the dead will be raised with spiritual bodies – like those of heaven have.Kerwin, the fact that YOU can't understand the teaching of 1 Cor 15 doesn't mean the rest of us are confused about God being a SPIRIT, who lives in the SPIRIT realm of heaven……….. a realm that flesh can neither see, enter, nor inherit.
Spirit is so often used in scripture as the ANTONYM of flesh that I can't see how you ever concocted this “spiritual flesh” thing.
It's absurd, to say the least.
Kerwin.
There is no scripture saying that angels are flesh.
But the scripture says that angels are spirit.
Psalms 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2014,12:19) Quote (Wakeup @ April 24 2014,05:54) Mike B. Be glad that we are made of flesh;for now we can know what is good and what is evil.
Angels never can have our experience.
wakeup.
God's spirit sons know good from evil, Wakeup.Genesis 3:5 King James Version
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.Genesis 3:22 New International Version
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.”The “gods” mentioned in Gen 3:5 are the angels, Wakeup. They already knew good from evil. Man didn't at first. I agree with you that man was basically an animal who could talk. Not a care in the world. No way to mess up, since there was no knowledge of what was “good”, and what was “bad”.
But once they ate of the fruit, all that changed.
Mike B.1. Angels in Heaven;have not experience death;sickness;pain;
sufferings; hunger;sorrows;disappointment;cheated;lied to;
fear.2. Angels are not called gods in scripture.
No angel is to be worshipped.This is against the law in
heaven.3. Fallen angels are worshipped by the heathens as gods.
Creatures and things worshipped by man are called gods.wakeup.
Mike,
Consider that a person that God created and he created him with a flesh body which was not subject to corruption. Should that man eat of the tree of Life it would simply have no effect.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2014,07:43) Quote (kerwin @ April 24 2014,11:40) Nick, It is not written that angels are not flesh………..
It IS written that the dead will be raised with spiritual bodies – like those of heaven have.Kerwin, the fact that YOU can't understand the teaching of 1 Cor 15 doesn't mean the rest of us are confused about God being a SPIRIT, who lives in the SPIRIT realm of heaven……….. a realm that flesh can neither see, enter, nor inherit.
Spirit is so often used in scripture as the ANTONYM of flesh that I can't see how you ever concocted this “spiritual flesh” thing.
It's absurd, to say the least.
Mike,You want the word natural in 1 Corinthians 15 to mean flesh and it does not. There is nothing you can do to make it so.
You want all flesh to be the same and is not and there is nothing you can do to change what is.
You want 1 Corinthians to state only a spirit body can ascend to heaven and it does not and there is nothing you can do to alter that.
Note: added “to mean flesh” which did not make it into the first posting.
Quote (kerwin @ April 25 2014,14:51) Mike, Consider that a person that God created and he created him with a flesh body which was not subject to corruption. Should that man eat of the tree of Life it would simply have no effect.
Kerwin.Hypothesis,not necessary.
wakeup.
Wakeup……..What does this mean to you, Psa 16:9-10.. Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoices: my “FLESH” also shall “REST” in hope. For thou will not leave my soul in hell (grave): neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption>
So now scripture says Jesus' “FLESH will rest in hope, why?, if he did not need his flesh any longer would it rest in hope, because he would be a Spirit being of some kind and not even need his flesh , according to you and Mike.
Another point is that in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve had access to the tree of lif and indeed could have lived for ever, and they were not the same as all animals, they had a highly advanced rational mind, or they would not have reasoned to TO TAKE TO THEMSELVES (eat) from the tree, that which PRODUCES FROM THEMSELVES THE “KNOWLEDGE” OF GOOD AND EVIL.
Because they disobeyed God he removed the tree of Life from them and set their time as one Day or one thousand years to die. All flesh has died with in that time frame. In the day they took to themselves to EXPERIENCE GOOD and EVIL, it became needful for them to die, because while Good brings life, Evil brings death, and Adam and Eve Chose to EXPERIENCE themselves “both”, and thus passed on their own death sentence on themselves. It was never God intent for man to die, it was their doing not his.
Eze 18:21.. Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby you have transgressed, and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will you die, O house of Israel? (32) For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dies, says the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live you.
Job 19:26…. And after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my “FLESH” shall I see God.
There is a Flesh and bone resurrection and Just as God said in genesis if we are given the right to eat or take to ourselves from the tree of life we shall never die in our flesh.
Wakeup you have bought into to meany false teachings, Satan want you to believe that Flesh man is inferior, it is he who makes Jesus different from us and created the DOCTRINE of “SEPARATION” . This teaching is specifically designed to make people like you think Mankind is inferior and Jesus is really not one of us human. You have fallen into the same trap Mike and others have. Common sense would tell you that if there were no need of a Physical Body there would be no need for any kind of future RESURRECTION in the first place.
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
GeneB.
Quote Wakeup……..What does this mean to you, Psa 16:9-10.. Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoices: my “FLESH” also shall “REST” in hope. For thou will not leave my soul in hell (grave): neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption. GOD WILL NOT LEAVE JESUS BODY IN THE GRAVE UNTILL IT STARTED TO DECAY. HE WAS RESURRECTED AFTER THREE DAYS. HE ALSO NEED TO SHOW HIS WOUNDS TO HIS BRETHREN.
PSA16:9. MY FLESH SHALL REST IN HOPE IN THE GRAVE.
IF ONE DIES IN RIGHTEOUSNESS ONE WILL REST IN PEACE AND HOPE.Quote
So now scripture says Jesus' “FLESH will rest in hope, why?, if he did not need his flesh any longer would it rest in hope, because he would be a Spirit being of some kind and not even need his flesh , according to you and Mike.JESUS RESTED FOR THREE DAYS IN HOPE OF HIS RESURRECTION. MANY RESTED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE RESURRECTED; BUT ALSO IN HOPE, IF IN CHRIST.
THEIR FLESH IS NOT MORE THEN DUST.
IT IS THE SPIRIT THAT LAST FOREVER;THE FLESH WILL SEE CORRUPTION.Quote
Another point is that in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve had access to the tree of lif and indeed could have lived for ever, and they were not the same as all animals, they had a highly advanced rational mind, or they would not have reasoned to TO TAKE TO THEMSELVES (eat) from the tree, that which PRODUCES FROM THEMSELVES THE “KNOWLEDGE” OF GOOD AND EVIL.THE TREE OF LIFE WAS GUARDED BY CHERUBIMS.
THE SERPENT LEAD THEM TO THE TREE OF GOOD AND EVIL. TO EAT OF THE TREE OF LIFE FIRST; AND THEN SIN AFTERWARDS DOES NOT HAPPEN.CAN NOT HAPPEN.wrote:THE DAY THEY ATE OF THE FRUIT OF GOOD AND EVIL
THEY WERE SPIRITUALLY SEPERATED FROM GOD.
THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD. SATAN HAS TAKEN OVER.
THERE ARE MANY SPIRITUALLY DEAD TODAY.
EVEN IN JESUS DAYS. FOR HE QUOTED ONCE:
LET THE DEAD BURY THEIR DEAD.
Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and **let the dead** bury their dead.
IS THIS OF PHYSICAL DEATH OR SPIRITUALLY DEAD?Quote
Eze 18:21.. Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby you have transgressed, and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will you die, O house of Israel? (32) For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dies, says the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live you.ITS SIMPLE: NO SPIRIT OF LIFE IN A PERSON;WHICH IS JESUS;THE BREAD OF LIFE; THEN HE IS AS GOOD AS DEAD.
Quote
Job 19:26…. And after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my “FLESH” shall I see God.JOB WILL BE BROUGHT BACK INTO HIS OWN LAND.
AND HE WILL SEE THE LORD IN THE THOUSAND YEAR REST.
IN HIS FLESH.Quote
There is a Flesh and bone resurrection and Just as God said in genesis if we are given the right to eat or take to ourselves from the tree of life we shall never die in our flesh.THERE IS NO SUCH SCRIPTURE IN GENESIS.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth;
***the flesh profiteth nothing***:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they
are life.
YOU SHOULD NOT GO AROUND CONTRADICTING SCRIPTURES. THE FLESH IS DUST OF THE EARTH,AND WILL RETURN TO DUST.THE SPIRIT IS FROM HEAVEN;AND WILL LAST FOREVER.Quote
Wakeup you have bought into to meany false teachings, Satan want you to believe that Flesh man is inferior, it is he who makes Jesus different from us and created the DOCTRINE of “SEPARATION” . This teaching is specifically designed to make people like you think Mankind is inferior and Jesus is really not one of us human. You have fallen into the same trap Mike and others have. Common sense would tell you that if there were no need of a Physical Body there would be no need for any kind of future RESURRECTION in the first place.GENE; YOU ARE GLORIFYING THE FLESH;WHEN JOHN SAID THE FLESH IS NOTHING.
YOU ALSO ARE DEGRADING THE LORD BY MAKING HIM LOWER THAT THE ANGELS.FOR SCRIPTURE SAYS THAT
ANGELS ARE MADE OF SPIRIT;WHICH YOU ALSO WILL CONTRADICT.Psalms 104:4 ***Who maketh his angels spirits***; his ministers a flaming fire:
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 25 2014,17:59) Quote (kerwin @ April 25 2014,14:51) Mike, Consider that a person that God created and he created him with a flesh body which was not subject to corruption. Should that man eat of the tree of Life it would simply have no effect.
Kerwin.Hypothesis,not necessary.
wakeup.
Wakeup,All you have is a hypothesis that has no support and contradicts Scripture and yet you seem happy with it because it supports your chosen doctrine.
You choose to claim that the wages of righteousness as well as sin are death even though Scripture states the wages of sin is death.
You choose to claim that God created the world with death already in it even though Scripture declares it came from sin and that sin came into the world by one man.
That is what you claim with your chosen hypothesis.
Mine was just and answer to your hypothesis that the tree if life was in the garden to give life to those that God created to die. According to you neither of them ever thought to eat from tree though God gave them permission.
Kerwin.
Adam could not have been given everlasting life at creation.Because he could die.
Once everlasting life is given; one should not die.
Everlasting life comes by eating of the fuit of life.If Adam had everlasting life in Him;then that tree of life serve no purpose.
ps. Flesh is flesh no matter what kind.
The earth is physical no matter in peace time or war time.
In truth or not; untill it is made like heaven;and God will be on earth also.
There are things earthly; and there are things heavenly.wakeup.
Wakeup,
Quote Adam could not have been given everlasting life at creation.Because he could die. He could not die in the body he had before he ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil but when he ate that fruit he was changed and could die as it cut him off from God.
Isaiah 59:1-2
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)59 Behold, the Lord’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save;
neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 but your iniquities have separated between you and your God,
and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.Wakeup,
Quote The earth is physical no matter in peace time or war time. There is no word “physical” in the AV of the KJV so I do not know what Scripture, if any, you are coming from.
I do know that a human being is both physical and spiritual. In fact and creature of complete creature of earth is both physical and spiritual in nature.
Wakeup…….God placed the Cherubim there AFTER Adam sinned not before he did , Adam and Eve both had access to the tree of life in their flesh “BEFORE THEY SINNED” because it was in the Garden of Eden and God said they could eat (take to themselves ) of all the Trees in the Garden except the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, he did not leave out the Tree of Life, it was there for them to take of. But after they sinned God placed a Cherubim with a flaming sowd to prevent them from getting to it, “LEST THEY SHOULD EAT AND LIVE FOREVER AND NEVER DIE” and that was while they were flesh and blood humans beings.
Wakeup just admit it, you have bought into the biggest lie ever told and it is Just exactly what Satan want people to believe , because he hate humanity. He know what Position God has placed on the human race and that “ALL” thing are going to be SUBJECT to US, and Jesus, another human being is even now Proof of that very thing.
Jesus was not a Spirit when he arose from the grave and still is not a Spirit being and when he return he will still be a SON of MAN , Just as scripture say he will, “for when the SON of MAN return will he fond Faith on the Earth”. and again When the SON OF MAN returns he will sit on the throne of his glory Jesus called himself a SON of MAN around 80 times in scriptures. He definitely considers himself a SON OF MAN a human being and he still is, he was never anything different then that either. Common sense should tell you there would be no need of a resurrection of a body at all, if a Body was not going to be resurrected.
Paul said “IT” (the body) is sown in weakness (not the spirit is sown in weakness) the Body , “IT” (the body) is raised in POWER” “IT” (the body) is sown a Natural BODY, “IT” (the natural body is raised a “SPIRITUAL” “BODY” ) the word Spiritual implies spiritual supported or activated, not a SPIRIT BODY but a body Spirit activated. Not one scripture in all the bible say the word, “SPIRIT BODY” , because Spirit are not BODIES of any kind. they are what DWELLS “IN” Bodies, of all kinds.
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Quote (kerwin @ April 25 2014,09:51) Mike, Consider that a person that God created and he created him with a flesh body which was not subject to corruption. Should that man eat of the tree of Life it would simply have no effect.
Kgood understanding kerwin,IT IS THE WICKED THAT CANNOT BE A BENEFICIARY OF LIFE : THE SOUL THAT SINS WILL DIE : SAYS GOD,
Rev 21:4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Rev 21:5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
Rev 21:6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.WHEN IT SAYS THAT DEAD WILL BE NO MORE ;WOULD THIS MEAN THAT WE NOW CAN SIN WITHOUT PUNISHMENT ???NO ,IT IS THE CONDEMNATION OF aDAM SIN OF DEAD THAT AS BEEN REMOVE ;NOT THE JUDGMENT OF GOD THAT SAYS ;THE SOUL THAT SIN WILL DIE :
THIS IS WHY IT SAYS IN VERSE 26 ;To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life
ONLY 144000 ARE RECEIVING IMMORTALITY AND WILL GO TO HEAVEN
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