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This is the latest installment I am making to address what I consider nonsensical teachings that people have come up with to justify their teachings.
Genesis 3:19
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
This is a derived doctrine as Scripture makes certain factual assumptions then speaks from them. Resurrection was the same type in the Old Testament and the Sadducees among the people did not see it as true in that time.
Do you believe God would have pronounced these words if Adam's flesh would return to the dust before Adam sinned?
I hold the position that No, God would not have pronounced a judgment that did nothing. Adam's flesh was therefore immortal before his fall.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 02 2013,20:29) This is the latest installment I am making to address what I consider nonsensical teachings that people have come up with to justify their teachings. Genesis 3:19
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
This is a derived doctrine as Scripture makes certain factual assumptions then speaks from them. Resurrection was the same type in the Old Testament and the Sadducees among the people did not see it as true in that time.
Do you believe God would have pronounced these words if Adam's flesh would return to the dust before Adam sinned?
I hold the position that No, God would not have pronounced a judgment that did nothing. Adam's flesh was therefore immortal before his fall.
Kerwin.To understand it all,first you must discover God's
plan,or you can get it all wrong.Even before God created Adam and Eve;he knew that lucifer would come and do the deceiving,and Eve and Adam would fall for lucifer.
That was the whole plan of God;to bring lucifers's
plan that is in his mind to be manifest.
For he could not achieve his plans amonst the angels in heaven.He was just an accuser of the angels in heaven.He had a rebellious mind,but that is just sinning in his heart.
He is not guilty; untill his plan is performed/made manifest.It was manifested in the garden and now he is guilty.
Lucifer/satan is now still working out his plan,to be the
god of all flesh. when his evil has come to the full,
*HE and his angels* and all his works on earth will be destroyed.Flesh and blood was never,and can never be the everlasting body chosen by God,because God is a spirit and his children must also be spirit. Heaven is the domain of spirit creatures.
And earth fleshly creatures. There is the heavenly and there is the earthly. And flesh and blood can not be in the heavenly. There is the terrestrial and there is the celestial.
Can not mix them up.wakeup.
Wakeup……….Kerwin is right, God did not originally Create man to die, even though that PROPENSITY was there, If God would have created man for the purpose of him to Die, that would make him Narcissistic would it not. It is plainly said, they could have eaten of the tree of life and lived forever, Just as they were. He even had to prevent them from the tree of life, by moving them out of the Garden AFTER THEY TRANSGRESSED, and placing a angel with fiery Sword to keep them from the way to it.
It is completely possible for us to live as flesh Beings and live forever. Jesus said he was NOT A SPIRIT “BEING”, because He had a Flesh and Bone Body even after his resurrection. When the three Flesh and blood men Ashack, Meshack, and Abidgo, were cast into the fiery furnace they came out without even a hair singed on them. And how did Peter Walk on water as Jesus did also. With God all thing are possible, including making our bodies live for ever or giving us new resurected flesh and bone bodies that will live for ever as Jesus now has. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 02 2013,16:20) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 02 2013,20:29) This is the latest installment I am making to address what I consider nonsensical teachings that people have come up with to justify their teachings. Genesis 3:19
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
This is a derived doctrine as Scripture makes certain factual assumptions then speaks from them. Resurrection was the same type in the Old Testament and the Sadducees among the people did not see it as true in that time.
Do you believe God would have pronounced these words if Adam's flesh would return to the dust before Adam sinned?
I hold the position that No, God would not have pronounced a judgment that did nothing. Adam's flesh was therefore immortal before his fall.
Kerwin.To understand it all,first you must discover God's
plan,or you can get it all wrong.Even before God created Adam and Eve;he knew that lucifer would come and do the deceiving,and Eve and Adam would fall for lucifer.
That was the whole plan of God;to bring lucifers's
plan that is in his mind to be manifest.
For he could not achieve his plans amonst the angels in heaven.He was just an accuser of the angels in heaven.He had a rebellious mind,but that is just sinning in his heart.
He is not guilty; untill his plan is performed/made manifest.It was manifested in the garden and now he is guilty.
Lucifer/satan is now still working out his plan,to be the
god of all flesh. when his evil has come to the full,
*HE and his angels* and all his works on earth will be destroyed.Flesh and blood was never,and can never be the everlasting body chosen by God,because God is a spirit and his children must also be spirit. Heaven is the domain of spirit creatures.
And earth fleshly creatures. There is the heavenly and there is the earthly. And flesh and blood can not be in the heavenly. There is the terrestrial and there is the celestial.
Can not mix them up.wakeup.
Wakeup,A lot of that true but Paul testified of a man who went to the third heaven, a place he called paradise. Paul admitted that he did not know whether this man went in body or out and yet you claim he could not have gone in body.
The bottom line is God made human flesh not to decay. He later cursed it to decay. Yes, he did know that a time would come when he would curse it.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 03 2013,02:10) them from the way to it.
Wakeup……….Kerwin is right, God did not originally Create man to die, even though that PROPENSITY was there, If God would have created man for the purpose of him to Die, that would make him Narcissistic would it not. It is plainly said, they could have eaten of the tree of life and lived forever, Just as they were. He even had to prevent them from the tree of life, by moving them out of the Garden AFTER THEY TRANSGRESSED, and placing a angel with fiery Sword to keep
It is completely possible for us to live as flesh Beings and live forever. Jesus said he was NOT A SPIRIT “BEING”, because He had a Flesh and Bone Body even after his resurrection. When the three Flesh and blood men Ashack, Meshack, and Abidgo, were cast into the fiery furnace they came out without even a hair singed on them. And how did Peter Walk on water as Jesus did also. With God all thing are possible, including making our bodies live for ever or giving us new resurected flesh and bone bodies that will live for ever as Jesus now has. IMOpeace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
Hi Gene B.Quote Just as they were. He even had to prevent them from the tree of life, by moving them out of the Garden AFTER THEY TRANSGRESSED, and placing a angel with fiery Sword to keep
It is completely possible for us to live as flesh Beings and live forever. Jesus said he was NOT A SPIRIT “BEING”, because He had a Flesh and Bone Body even after his resurrection. When the three Flesh and blood men Ashack, Meshack, and Abidgo, were cast into the fiery furnace they came out without even a hair singed on them. And how did Peter Walk on water as Jesus did also. With God all thing are possible, including making our bodies live for ever or giving us new resurected flesh and bone bodies that will live for ever as Jesus now has. IMO
—————————————————————
Please understand: **Before** God created the earth, and Adam an Eve,He already *knew* that they would give in to lucifer. Lucifer was already created in heaven.
And he rebelled in his *heart*; For he has his own idea's.
He feels in his heart that he is greater than all the angels.He became the accuser of his brethren in heaven.
But he could not do his will in heaven amongst spirit creatures. God wanted that evil in lucifers heart to be manifest; to come out, so his evil works can be a witness.
In heaven angels dont get sick or die.This was the reason why God created flesh.
The flesh can get sick and die;so this earth has become satans playground,but only to proof him guilty at the end
and be destroyed,after his works of evil has been revealed.Flesh and blood was never meant to live forever.
First the *TERRESTRIAL* and *THEN THE CELESTIAL*.
MEANING: **FIRST THE FLESH**, AND **THE FINISH** WILL BE **THE SPIRIT**.FROM *EARTHLY* TO *SPIRIT*. FROM THE *SEEN* TO THE *UNSEEN*.FLESH GIVES BIRTH TO FLESH; SPIRIT GIVES BIRTH TO SPIRIT. SPIRIT DOES NOT GIVE BIRTH TO FLESH.
*BUT CAN CREATE FLESH*.WE STUDY THE BIBLE BECAUSE WE ARE AFTER *SPIRITUAL*
KNOWLEDGE; NOT EARTHLY KNOWLEDGE.
THERE IS THE *EARTHLY* KNOWLEDGE,AND THE IS THE *SPIRITUAL* KNOWLEDGE.THERE IS THE *EARTHLY* AND THERE IS THE *HEAVENLY* *NONE IN BETWEEN*.The tree of life standing in the mids of the garden is the
WORD OF GOD/JESUS. only he CAN give life.
He created life on earth,and in heaven.Re' man walking on water,and can be saved from the fire;
those are just miracles. The *flesh* consider those things miracles. But thats's normal in heaven,angels can walk on water or not touched by the fire.
But as for raising the dead; only the power of the Word/Jesus
can do that.wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 02 2013,03:29) Genesis 3:19
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Do you believe God would have pronounced these words if Adam's flesh would return to the dust before Adam sinned?
I hold the position that No, God would not have pronounced a judgment that did nothing.
Kerwin,The “judgment” in Genesis 3:19 is that God cursed the ground itself, meaning that mankind would now have to work hard for their food. This was not the case originally.
Read it in context:
Genesis 3 NWT
17 And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and took to eating from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 And thorns and thistles it will grow for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”The bolded part is the curse. It is not clear from those words that returning to the ground is part of the punishment.
Genesis 5:29 NWT
And he proceeded to call his name Noah, saying: “This one will bring us comfort from our work and from the pain of our hands resulting from the ground which Jehovah has cursed.”According to the Book of Enoch, the reason God gave wives to mankind in the first place is because mankind is mortal. They needed to keep reproducing since they don't live forever.
But the NT says that death entered the world through the sin of one man. It also says the wages of sin are death.
I think those scriptures would help you make your point better than Genesis 3.
Gene is also correct that God surely COULD cause flesh and blood (or bone) beings to live forever if He wanted them to. After all, he caused regular old sandals to not wear out during 40 years in the wilderness, right?
I don't know the answer, but it is a good topic.
Hi KW,
You say
“Adam's flesh was therefore immortal before his fall. “Is logic reliable in dealing with spiritual matters?
Before God created Adam;He already knew that he must die.
God could not have the idea that flesh should live forever.
For He is the Lord of Spirits. Not flesh.First there was darkness;and then light.
Light has nothing in common with darkness.
First there was the flesh; and then spirit.
spirit has nothing in common with flesh.Jesus had nothing in common with satan.
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a *natural body*; it is raised *a spiritual body*. There is a natural body, *and there is a spiritual body*.
wakeup.
Wakeup,
Did God lie to Adam when he told him that in the day he ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good evil that he would die?
Nick,
Sometimes a day is a day and he died spiritually that very day.
He became mortal but I am not sure that is a result of eating the fruit or God's curse.Kirwin………..I agree with Nick on this, Peter said 1000 years is as a day with God, and a day was as a 1000 years, meaning with God a day equals a thousand years, Now notice no man has ever lived over a thousand years, Mathuslam was close but he still died in that thousand year period.
Kerwin, spirits can not die ever, we all receive of them from God. We can die but not spirits they exist forever, and can be manifested in many physical Bodies, all at one time. That is why God can be in all and through all at one time.
peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 24 2014,02:49) Kirwin………..I agree with Nick on this, Peter said 1000 years is as a day with God, and a day was as a 1000 years, meaning with God a day equals a thousand years, Now notice no man has ever lived over a thousand years, Mathuslam was close but he still died in that thousand year period. Kerwin, spirits can not die ever, we all receive of them from God. We can die but not spirits they exist forever, and can be manifested in many physical Bodies, all at one time. That is why God can be in all and through all at one time.
peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
GeneB.Exodus 20:11 **For in six days** the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
6days=6000years??
Exodus 24:16 And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it **six days**: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.
6days=6000years??
Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in **six days** the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
6days=6000years??
Leviticus 12:5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and **six days**.
6days=6000years??
Joshua 6:3 And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do **six days**.
6days=6000year??
Joshua 6:14 And the second day they compassed the city once, and returned into the camp: so they did **six days**.
6days=6000years??
God's Word is not confusion.
wakeup.
Hi WU,
Ps 91
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.2 Peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.A day can still be a day
Quote (kerwin @ April 23 2014,18:12) Wakeup, Did God lie to Adam when he told him that in the day he ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good evil that he would die?
Kerwin.No God did not lie.
He knew that Adam/Eve would eat of the fruit.If Adam/Eve did not eat of the fruit; they would have lived
for ever in the flesh, without knowing what is good and what is evil. They will be as animals with a speech. Talking animals.If God knew that Adam/Eve would never eat of the fruit;
God would have created them in spirit form;not in the flesh.
But with no knowledge of good and evil.wakeup.
Hi WU,
.Hebrews 4:7
He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, “Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.”Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2014,08:47) Hi WU,
Ps 91
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.2 Peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.A day can still be a day
Hi Nick.2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord ***as a thousand years***, and a thousand years ***as one day***.
AS a thousand years.Meaning;a very long time.
Peter did not say; a thousand years is one day to God.
But when God mentioned the evening and the morning;
He meant one literal day to us.wakeup.
any verses?
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