Was Adam truly the FIRST man ever?

[david]

Quote (david @ Feb. 06 2013,09:26)

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 26 2011,12:45) I heard a teaching based on the scripture where God told man to replenish the Earth. The point being that to replenish something indicated that it had already been plenished (is there a such word?) beforehand. T8, you have mentioned the “replenish” thing before.  Someone should really look that up.

I find that “subdue” is the actual word. It's what my bible says and what the biblecc indicates when you look up the Hebrew.

Become many and fill the earth and SUBDUE it.

[Proclaimer]

Cheers david.

I looked up the word 'fill' and a concordance says this:

fill 107, full 48, fulfil 28, consecrate 15, accomplish 7, replenish 7, wholly 6, set 6, expired 3, fully 2, gather 2, overflow 2, satisfy 2, misc 14

So it could easily mean fill the Earth. However, God also said the same thing to Noah, so it doesn't rule out that there was a previous race of man, angel, or something.

If it was meant to mean 'replenish', it might simply be reference to repopulate with humans and not what was there before, such as dinosaurs or whatever.

These 2 verses are definitely not enough proof for the pre-man theory even if replenish is the intended meaning. But still not ruled out though.

Perhaps the thing to do is to make a list of possibilities or scriptures that seem to infer this.

[david]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 29 2011,12:38)

But God already made man to toil on the earth after what Adam did.  And it doesn't address the point we're discussing:  WHY were there already “others” out there in the land of Nod, living away from God's presence?

Mike

This is the problem :

The bible doesn't say there were others out there in the land of nod living away from Gods presence.  

This is assumed by you.

You seem to view this as if its an extremely distant land with a fence in between that no one may cross.

The bible only says that he was afraid that anyone finding him might kill him.  The “anyone” could merely be a person who wanders near the edge of this land of fugitiveness (nod) or someone that even decides to search him out to kill him because of his killing Abel.

[journey42]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 06 2013,09:15)

I don't profess to be an expert in this subject and have never worked out the logistics of how this could have worked. I guess it is possible that there were men before Adam, but that Adam was the first son. Who knows, the Universe is an old place and there have been many ages. And who were these sons of God that came to the woman of men and produced the Nephilim. That aside, there is the idea that Adam and Eve had children and then their children had children who also may have had children before this act took place. Does it actually say that Cain and Abel were the first sons?

This is a good topic. I am very excited to look into this.

[terraricca]

all

I have something different ; what if Adam ad children with his own daughters,and those children were not counted but only the children of Adam and Eve look at legit to fit in scriptures .

[jammin]

these people are sick who believe there is a man before adam.
if the bible is silent, you must be silent

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ April 15 2012,19:15)

THERE WAS NO MAN TO TILL THE GROUND

The Hebrew word is “adam”. There was no “adam” to till the ground. Of course we all know that the earth can survive with or without an adam tilling the ground.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (david @ Feb. 05 2013,16:02)

Mike, interesting thread.

Thanks David. You have I have already had quite an extensive discussion in this thread.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 05 2013,19:52)

This is a good topic. I am very excited to look into this.

I welcome your insight, journey. It might be good for you to read over the first 5 or so pages. Many things have been touched on already………… things that might prompt a response from you.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (david @ Feb. 05 2013,16:28)

I find that “subdue” is the actual word.  It's what my bible says and what the biblecc indicates when you look up the Hebrew.

A little info from NETNotes about the Hebrew word translated as “subdue”:

Elsewhere the Hebrew verb translated “subdue” means “to enslave” (2 Chr 28:10; Neh 5:5; Jer 34:11, 16), “to conquer,” (Num 32:22, 29; Josh 18:1; 2 Sam 8:11; 1 Chr 22:18; Zech 9:13; and probably Mic 7:19), and “to assault sexually” (Esth 7:8). None of these nuances adequately meets the demands of this context, for humankind is not viewed as having an adversarial relationship with the world. The general meaning of the verb appears to be “to bring under one’s control for one’s advantage.” In Gen 1:28 one might paraphrase it as follows: “harness its potential and use its resources for your benefit.” In an ancient Israelite context this would suggest cultivating its fields, mining its mineral riches, using its trees for construction, and domesticating its animals.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (david @ Feb. 05 2013,19:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 29 2011,12:38) WHY were there already “others” out there in the land of Nod, living away from God's presence? Mike This is the problem : The bible doesn't say there were others out there in the land of nod living away from Gods presence.   This is assumed by you.

Fair enough, David. But what are YOU suggesting? That Cain was worried about one of his brothers leaving “the presence of God” to go searching for him in the land of Nod to exact vengeance?

Perhaps this DID happen. And when that brother (who also brought a sister with him) finally found Cain, instead of killing Cain to exact vengeance, he gave him the sister to marry! Because Cain DID find a wife in that land, right? What was SHE doing there? Trying to exact vengeance, but ended up marrying Cain instead?

[mikeboll64]

To All,

I started this thread because I had questions. I'm not making any particular claims, but pointing out things in scripture that don't seem to add up.

For example, MOST people just assume that after Cain and Abel, Eve was popping out children like a rabbit, and that those children were doing the same. But we KNOW from scripture that Cain killed Abel before the time Adam was 130 years old. And scripture says that Eve named her next child Seth because God have given her a son to REPLACE Abel. (Would this have been such a big deal if she had already popped out hundreds of sons like a rabbit?)

We also know the age of many people when they had what I assume was their first child. For example:

Genesis 5
25 When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he became the father of Lamech. 26 And after he became the father of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and had other sons and daughters.

Now I suppose this isn't CONCRETE proof that Lamech was Methusela's firstborn. But scripture clearly mentions other children born to him AFTER Lamech, and NO children born to him BEFORE Lamech. So if Lamech WAS his firstborn, it seems to indicate that people weren't popping out babies in their teens back then.

The same is said about Adam and Eve……. that AFTER Seth, they had other sons and daughters.

There is one we can be sure of, and that is Noah. We are told in scripture that Noah was 500 years old before he had his three sons. And we know from scripture that, although those three sons had wives, not one of them had a child of their own until after the flood. And they were each over 100 years old by then!

I don't personally believe that Adam and Eve were popping out babies like rabbits. I believe Cain was their first son, Abel was their second, and Seth was their third.

I believe this time frame matches the genealogies in Gen 5, ie: Men were old by the time they had their first child. And yes, I believe the children listed in Gen 5 were the firstborns, and “AFTER that they had other sons and daughters”.

Which is why I wonder about the “others” Cain was afraid of when he was sent to the land of Nod. How many “others” could there have been in 130 years? And what were they doing living away from the presence of God in the land of Nod?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2013,06:33)

To All, I started this thread because I had questions.  I'm not making any particular claims, but pointing out things in scripture that don't seem to add up. For example, MOST people just assume that after Cain and Abel, Eve was popping out children like a rabbit, and that those children were doing the same.  But we KNOW from scripture that Cain killed Abel before the time Adam was 130 years old.  And scripture says that Eve named her next child Seth because God have given her a son to REPLACE Abel.  (Would this have been such a big deal if she had already popped out hundreds of sons like a rabbit?) We also know the age of many people when they had what I assume was their first child.  For example: Genesis 5 25 When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he became the father of Lamech. 26 And after he became the father of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and had other sons and daughters. Now I suppose this isn't CONCRETE proof that Lamech was Methusela's firstborn.  But scripture clearly mentions other children born to him AFTER Lamech, and NO children born to him BEFORE Lamech.  So if Lamech WAS his firstborn, it seems to indicate that people weren't popping out babies in their teens back then. The same is said about Adam and Eve……. that AFTER Seth, they had other sons and daughters. There is one we can be sure of, and that is Noah.  We are told in scripture that Noah was 500 years old before he had his three sons.  And we know from scripture that, although those three sons had wives, not one of them had a child of their own until after the flood.  And they were each over 100 years old by then! I don't personally believe that Adam and Eve were popping out babies like rabbits.  I believe Cain was their first son, Abel was their second, and Seth was their third.   I believe this time frame matches the genealogies in Gen 5, ie:  Men were old by the time they had their first child.  And yes, I believe the children listed in Gen 5 were the firstborns, and “AFTER that they had other sons and daughters”. Which is why I wonder about the “others” Cain was afraid of when he was sent to the land of Nod.  How many “others” could there have been in 130 years?  And what were they doing living away from the presence of God in the land of Nod?

Mike

from Adam to Noah there his something like 1600 years if we go by your calculation there only could be about 5 0r 10 thousandth people if that ,

but like always the holy spirit is not interested in people that does not look for him and search to do what is right ,

so the account we have in scriptures is mainly righteous people all others are rarely quoted

wicked people do not have a promise of live but dead,so why making a record of them if they will be terminated

scriptures is made for the righteous

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2013,11:09)

Quote (david @ Feb. 05 2013,19:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 29 2011,12:38) WHY were there already “others” out there in the land of Nod, living away from God's presence? Mike This is the problem : The bible doesn't say there were others out there in the land of nod living away from Gods presence.   This is assumed by you. Fair enough, David.  But what are YOU suggesting?  That Cain was worried about one of his brothers leaving “the presence of God” to go searching for him in the land of Nod to exact vengeance? Perhaps this DID happen.  And when that brother (who also brought a sister with him) finally found Cain, instead of killing Cain to exact vengeance, he gave him the sister to marry!    Because Cain DID find a wife in that land, right?  What was SHE doing there?  Trying to exact vengeance, but ended up marrying Cain instead?

MIke B.

The bible is clear about the **FIRST MAN ADAM** was made a living soul and the SECOND Adam was made a quickening spirit.

What about Cain and his wife, and the others that cain was afraid of? So God puts a mark on him.

God only mentions the names of them of importance,for us to know.The rest of his children of which are many,their names are not mentioned.

Sample: Jesse had David the youngest,but david had 3 brothers that was not of importance,therefore not mentioned anymore.

There were many other children of Adam that was not mentioned by name,because it is of no relevance to us.

Only of Cain and Abel we need to know.The first murder committed.

The scriptures also said that Adam beget SONS AND DAUGHTERS. (gen. 5:4).

And they must have children and grand children,and great great grand children.
God said ; be fruitful and multiply.

Adam was 130yrs old when he beget Seth.
How many children and grand children can be born in the space of 100 yrs? And some may have not just taken one wife each. Maybe two three or even more wifes each.

Just use your imagination.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Actually Wakeup,

The scripture explicitely says that AFTER Seth, they had other sons and daughters.

For you and Pierre:

Read Genesis 5 and tell me if you believe the child mentioned to each parent was their firstborn son. I do.

(Btw, I believe David was the 8th son of Jesse, and we are told he was the youngest. We are also told about Eliab, the firstborn.)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 07 2013,18:56)

How many children and grand children can be born in the space of 100 yrs?

Read Gen 5, Wakeup.  The youngest any father was when he begot the “mentioned” son was 65 years old.  Most of them were over 100 when they begot the “mentioned” son.

Is there any reason to think the “mentioned” son isn't also the firstborn?

And what comment do you make about Noah?  We KNOW that Noah was 500 years old when Shem, Ham and Japheth were born.  And it seems reasonable that these “mentioned sons” were the first sons he had – or else he left his older sons to die in the flood.

And what does the fact that Noah's three sons were over 100 years old and without children tell us?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 07 2013,18:56)

What about Cain and his wife, and the others that cain was afraid of?

Well, presumably, since Cain thought being banished to Nod was an unbearable punishment, it was not a good place to be. So my question is WHY there were “others” already in the land of Nod, that Cain had to be afraid of?

What were these other “sons and daughters of Adam” doing there? Why were they WILLINGLY living out of the presence of God, in a place where Cain didn't want to be sent?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2013,07:14)

Actually Wakeup, The scripture explicitely says that AFTER Seth, they had other sons and daughters. For you and Pierre: Read Genesis 5 and tell me if you believe the child mentioned to each parent was their firstborn son.  I do. (Btw, I believe David was the 8th son of Jesse, and we are told he was the youngest.  We are also told about Eliab, the firstborn.)

mIKE

ok, let it be be ;let ask one more question ;what was so bad that Cain did not wanted to willingly to go (NOD)

and one more ;wen in scriptures it says “and they add other sons and daughters ,how many

and this is true for almost all those who are name in Gen 5

and one more question; Ge 5:4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters

WERE DOES IT LINE UP WITH CAIN AND SCRIPTURES DO NOT COUNT THE FEMALE GENDER THEY COULD HAVE AD MANY IN BETWEEN OR BEFORE ABEL,AND CAIN

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2013,12:33)

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 07 2013,18:56) What about Cain and his wife, and the others that cain was afraid of? Well, presumably, since Cain thought being banished to Nod was an unbearable punishment, it was not a good place to be.  So my question is WHY there were “others” already in the land of Nod, that Cain had to be afraid of? What were these other “sons and daughters of Adam” doing there?  Why were they WILLINGLY living out of the presence of God, in a place where Cain didn't want to be sent?

MikeB.

That only tells us that the day Cain was send away to the land of Nod; there must be Adams descendant already spreading in groups. Just like our families today,some live here and some live over the others side.

We can never contradict the scriptures by believing that Adam was not the first man,but there are others before.

Dont get bogged down in this hole, but carry on,after all we believe in Jesus that he is true. This could be just a stumbling block God has put in place,to create doubt.

Of which many christians has fallen in.
They all doubt the criptures just because of this land of Nod.

It good to try to find out the truth of the matter,yes,but dont get bogged down.Because there is no explanation re' this land of Nod.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2013,12:14)

Actually Wakeup, The scripture explicitely says that AFTER Seth, they had other sons and daughters. For you and Pierre: Read Genesis 5 and tell me if you believe the child mentioned to each parent was their firstborn son.  I do. (Btw, I believe David was the 8th son of Jesse, and we are told he was the youngest.  We are also told about Eliab, the firstborn.)

MikeB.

Gen5. Can be interpreted your way, and also interpreted my way.

To me, the mentioning of many sons and daughters could be just the summing up of all Adams children.

There is no other way to see it,unless we start to create our own doctrine,teaching that Adam was not the first human. Therefore starting a new doctrine.

wakeup.

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