Was Adam truly the FIRST man ever?

[journey42]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2013,20:35)

Hi Journey42 and others, Was Cain speaking prophetically about his future siblings?      …or is their another explanation? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

I highly doubt it.

Would you be scared to go live in another place where there are children not yet born?

[Ed J]

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 07 2013,10:22)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2013,20:25) Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 06 2013,19:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 06 2013,11:54) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 05 2013,08:26) Hi Journey42, Why would Eve complain about no offspring, if Abel had some? which, by the way, none are mentioned anywhere in Scripture. “And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called    his name Seth: For God, said Eve, hath appointed me another  SEED instead of Abel,  whom Cain slew.” (Genesis 4:25) God bless Ed J That's how I'm seeing it, Ed.  I see the words “to replace Abel”, or “instead of Abel”, and I assume there was only Cain and Abel, and once Abel died, God gave Eve Seth as a replacement for Abel. Anyway, how do YOU understand the “others” in the land of Nod, Ed? Where do you weigh in on this topic? Hi Mike Where does it say that there were others in the Land of Nod? Hi Journey42, What Mike is referring to is who are these people Cain is fearful of slewing him? Gen 4:13-15 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. God bless Ed J Hi Ed Cain says “that every one that findeth me shall slay me”. How does this prove that there are others already living in the Land of Nod?  Have I missed another verse somewhere that implies this?

Hi Journey42,

It doesn't; at best, it implies it.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 07 2013,10:24)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2013,20:35) Hi Journey42 and others, Was Cain speaking prophetically about his future siblings?      …or is their another explanation? God bless Ed J I highly doubt it. Would you be scared to go live in another place where there are children not yet born?

Hi Journey42,

WELL, give us another explanation then?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[journey42]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2013,10:31)

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 07 2013,10:24) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2013,20:35) Hi Journey42 and others, Was Cain speaking prophetically about his future siblings?      …or is their another explanation? God bless Ed J I highly doubt it. Would you be scared to go live in another place where there are children not yet born? Hi Journey42, WELL, give us another explanation then? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed

I am not denying there were “others” around, because it's clear there were.

What I am saying is that there is nothing in that scripture to suggest that these “others” were already in the Land of Nod. So, to suggest that, and state it as a fact is wrong.

So as I see it, only from what information we are given, is that at the time of the murder, there were others around besides Adam, Eve and Cain. Therefore there must be other children of Adam and Eve not mentioned. The last son mentioned was Seth, and there were many more children after Seth also not mentioned. Maybe there were too many children to mention, but the story of Cain and Abel had to go down in history to be remembered, because it was the FIRST MURDER ever committed. Since then there have been many murders, but the first one is noted for us.

So again, I think the main message for us here is a kept record of the FIRST MURDER ever committed, …and it was caused out of jealousy. ….

and later the same crime was committed, Satan caused the Jews to be jealous of Christ and murder him also, because his sacrifice was perfect before God.

Plus, Cain fled to another land to get away from the “others” scared that they would come after him. It makes sense to me, that this land he fled to would of had no-one there, and he took his wife with him when he fled. He built a city there in Nod, so this tells me that the city belonged to no other before him.

Make sense?

[kerwin]

To all,

Genesis 4:14
King James Version (KJV)

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Genesis 1:27-28
King James Version (KJV)

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

[Ed J]

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 07 2013,13:34)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2013,10:31) Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 07 2013,10:24) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2013,20:35) Hi Journey42 and others, Was Cain speaking prophetically about his future siblings?      …or is their another explanation? God bless Ed J I highly doubt it. Would you be scared to go live in another place where there are children not yet born? Hi Journey42, WELL, give us another explanation then? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Hi Ed I am not denying there were “others” around, because it's clear there were.   What I am saying is that there is nothing in that scripture to suggest that these “others” were already in the Land of Nod.  So,  to suggest that, and state it as a fact is wrong. So as I see it, only from what information we are given, is that at the time of the murder, there were others around besides Adam, Eve and Cain.  Therefore there must be other children of Adam and Eve not mentioned.  The last son mentioned was Seth, and there were many more children after Seth also not mentioned.  Maybe there were too many children to mention, but the story of Cain and Abel had to go down in history to be remembered, because it was the FIRST MURDER ever committed.  Since then there have been many murders, but the first one is noted for us. So again, I think the main message for us here is a kept record of the FIRST MURDER ever committed, …and it was caused out of jealousy. …. and later the same crime was committed,  Satan caused the Jews to be jealous of Christ and murder him also, because his sacrifice was perfect before God. Plus, Cain fled to another land to get away from the “others” scared that they would come after him.  It makes sense to me, that this land he fled to would of had no-one there, and he took his wife with him when he fled.  He built a city there in Nod, so this tells me that the city belonged to no other before him. Make sense?

Hi Georgie,

Thanks for giving us your view on this.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2013,03:15)

Hi Mike, The bible clearly says “Adam” was THE FIRST man.

Hi Ed,

Adam was the first “adam” – a Hebrew word.

But even in our society, do we consider Neanterthals to be “homo sapiens”, which we are?

My thought is that there possibly were the Hebrew version of Neanderthals living in the land of Nod, but they weren't called “adam” by the Hebrews.  Therefore, Adam could still be the first “adam”, but not necessarily the first humanoid being.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2013,03:25)

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 06 2013,19:15) Hi Mike Where does it say that there were others in the Land of Nod? Hi Journey42, What Mike is referring to is who are these people Cain is fearful of slewing him? Gen 4 ..from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Exactly, Ed.

I can't imagine the wording referred to those who were right there with Cain at the time he was being banished.  It sounds to me like he is speaking of “others” in the land to which he is being banished.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 06 2013,20:34)

What I am saying is that there is nothing in that scripture to suggest that these “others” were already in the Land of Nod.  So,  to suggest that, and state it as a fact is wrong.

How about, “I SHALL BE a fugitive, and IT WILL COME TO PASS that anyone finding me will kill me”?

Cain doesn't seem to be saying, “Oh crap!  I've killed my brother, and now I'm worried that right here and right now, one of my other siblings will exact revenge.”

Instead, he seems to be distressed over the entire punishment:  being a fugitive, being a vagabond, being hidden from the presence of Jehovah, and that someone “out there” will kill him.

If he was worried ONLY about being killed by one of his siblings who were already living right there with him in the presence of God, why so much distress about the other things?

In fact, if all my vengeance-exacting siblings were living in Arizona, I would be HAPPY that God was sending me somewhere else.  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 06 2013,17:24)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2013,20:35) Hi Journey42 and others, Was Cain speaking prophetically about his future siblings? I highly doubt it. Would you be scared to go live in another place where there are children not yet born?

I agree, journey.

I also don't think he would be worried about his sisters exacting revenge, as Kerwin has suggested.

I guess we first need to establish whether he was scared of being killed by someone right there with him – or someone living in the land to where he was being banished.

I think the wording clearly implies the latter.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 06 2013,05:14)

IN PROCESS OF TIME; SOME TIME HAVE ELAPSED. MANY COULD HAVE BEEN BORN DURING THIS TIME.

Hi Wakeup,

Genesis 5:4
After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.

These words don't totally disallow for your understanding, but that word “after” is in the Hebrew text for a reason, IMO.

Also, consider the points I listed for journey in the 7th post of page 30.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 08 2013,06:52)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2013,03:15) Hi Mike, The bible clearly says “Adam” was THE FIRST man. Hi Ed, Adam was the first “adam” – a Hebrew word. But even in our society, do we consider Neanterthals to be “homo sapiens”, which we are? My thought is that there possibly were the Hebrew version of Neanderthals living in the land of Nod, but they weren't called “adam” by the Hebrews.  Therefore, Adam could still be the first “adam”, but not necessarily the first humanoid being.

Mike,

Neanderthals and Denisovans are said to crossbred with Cromagnons. They have some DNA to support the claim.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 08 2013,11:52)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2013,03:15) Hi Mike, The bible clearly says “Adam” was THE FIRST man. Hi Ed, Adam was the first “adam” – a Hebrew word. But even in our society, do we consider Neanterthals to be “homo sapiens”, which we are? My thought is that there possibly were the Hebrew version of Neanderthals living in the land of Nod, but they weren't called “adam” by the Hebrews.  Therefore, Adam could still be the first “adam”, but not necessarily the first humanoid being.

Hi Mike,

Although I would not consider that a possibility, it does offer an explanation.  

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 08 2013,11:57)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2013,03:25) Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 06 2013,19:15) Hi Mike Where does it say that there were others in the Land of Nod? Hi Journey42, What Mike is referring to is who are these people Cain is fearful of slewing him? Gen 4 ..from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. Exactly, Ed. I can't imagine the wording referred to those who were right there with Cain at the time he was being banished.  It sounds to me like he is speaking of “others” in the land to which he is being banished.

Hi Mike,

It does seem to suggest that.
Or it may have been a prophetic.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 08 2013,12:13)

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 06 2013,17:24) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2013,20:35) Hi Journey42 and others, Was Cain speaking prophetically about his future siblings? I highly doubt it. Would you be scared to go live in another place where there are children not yet born? I agree, journey. I also don't think he would be worried about his sisters exacting revenge, as Kerwin has suggested. I guess we first need to establish whether he was scared of being killed by someone right there with him – or someone living in the land to where he was being banished. I think the wording clearly implies the latter.

Hi Mike,

Can we?  Do we have enough information to “figure this out”?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[journey42]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 08 2013,10:56)

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 07 2013,13:34) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2013,10:31) Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 07 2013,10:24) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 06 2013,20:35) Hi Journey42 and others, Was Cain speaking prophetically about his future siblings?      …or is their another explanation? God bless Ed J I highly doubt it. Would you be scared to go live in another place where there are children not yet born? Hi Journey42, WELL, give us another explanation then? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Hi Ed I am not denying there were “others” around, because it's clear there were.   What I am saying is that there is nothing in that scripture to suggest that these “others” were already in the Land of Nod.  So,  to suggest that, and state it as a fact is wrong. So as I see it, only from what information we are given, is that at the time of the murder, there were others around besides Adam, Eve and Cain.  Therefore there must be other children of Adam and Eve not mentioned.  The last son mentioned was Seth, and there were many more children after Seth also not mentioned.  Maybe there were too many children to mention, but the story of Cain and Abel had to go down in history to be remembered, because it was the FIRST MURDER ever committed.  Since then there have been many murders, but the first one is noted for us. So again, I think the main message for us here is a kept record of the FIRST MURDER ever committed, …and it was caused out of jealousy. …. and later the same crime was committed,  Satan caused the Jews to be jealous of Christ and murder him also, because his sacrifice was perfect before God. Plus, Cain fled to another land to get away from the “others” scared that they would come after him.  It makes sense to me, that this land he fled to would of had no-one there, and he took his wife with him when he fled.  He built a city there in Nod, so this tells me that the city belonged to no other before him. Make sense? Hi Georgie, Thanks for giving us your view on this. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

You're Welcome Ed.

[Ed J]

Hi Georgie,

Reasoning together is “Good”! When we express our views
to others, it helps them TO EXPAND THEIR VIEW OF GOD!

“98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me.
 99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.
101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.
102 I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.
103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.” (Psalms 119:98-104)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 07 2013,23:30)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 08 2013,12:13) I guess we first need to establish whether he was scared of being killed by someone right there with him – or someone living in the land to where he was being banished. I think the wording clearly implies the latter. Hi Mike, Can we?  Do we have enough information to “figure this out”?

Genesis 4
13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

Would “the land”, from where Cain was being driven, be the land that his (supposed) brothers and sisters lived?

If they all lived in that land, in the presence of God, then it doesn't seem likely to me that they were the ones Cain was afraid of him – AS he was a restless wanderer in the land of Nod.

And if his supposed brothers and sisters DIDN'T live in the presence of God – in “the land” – then why not? Why would anyone CHOOSE to live out of the presence of God?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,22:17)

Mike, Neanderthals and Denisovans are said to crossbred with Cromagnons. They have some DNA to support the claim.

Fair enough, Kerwin.

But my point is: In evolutionary theory, there existed “humanoids” BEFORE there existed what we call “homo sapiens”.

Could there have existed “humanoids” in the land of Nod BEFORE there existed what the Hebrews call “adam”?

[Spock]

……and the world that a fully grown Adam and Eve incarnate on had already fallen, for the beast was already hear and working against the will of the Father. Flocks, fields, tithes to a religious order? How much work for food does a family need to do living in a garden paradice? The world was very populated by the time of A & E's arrival

Genesis, dating to the time of the Babylonian captivity, is a redaction of a very ancient story carried by oral tradition up until it's incorporation into the narratives written by the Hebrew priest.

This 4.8+/- billion year old planet has a much older history then Genesis. Unfortunately, those who have made a idol out of the books of the bible, must live in perpetual ignorance with a stunted worldview making a mockery of faith.

Caino

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