Can both Trinity & non-Trinity be correct?

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  • #279298
    Ed J
    Participant

    Evidence Exhibit 2:       Link to –>    (Evidence Exhibit 1:)    

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2012,14:58)

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 19 2012,14:47)

    Hi Wake-up, “The Word” (Rev.19:13)

    God(YÄ-hä-vā) named his Son “YA-shu-a”.

    “The Word” would be a funny name to name a child?   …would it not?

    “The Word”, however, is catchy name for God's “HolySpirit”(Rev.19:13).

    Go
    ye therefore,
    and teach all nations,
    baptizing them in the name of

    the Father (“YÄ-hä-vā”),
    and of the Son (“YA-shu-a”),
    and of the HolySirit (“The Word”):

    (Matt 28:19)…hey it fits doesn't it?

    God bless
    Ed J


    Hi ED,
    It fits suits your AKJV defence.
    Truth is more important.

    Show me ONCE in Acts when any baptism into Christ was not in the name of Jesus Christ.


    Hi Nick,

    The “AKJV Bible” is NOT the issue, but here what is…

    (E.) Thank you for agreeing that it runs parallel to,
    or in more term “it allows for” the assertion of…

          “Trin” and “non-Trin” are both true.

    E. Does this evidence “allow” for the possibility of my analogy?     <– Looks like we agree here

    D. Do we agree that this evidence proves my point conclusively?   <– No agreement as of yet

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #279364
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2012,23:14)
    (E.) Thank you for agreeing that it runs parallel to,
    or in more term “it allows for” the assertion of…

          “Trin” and “non-Trin” are both true.


    I haven't seen any evidence of this yet.  All I've seen is you adding “trin” and “non-trin” into Luke 12:52.

    Ed, do you suppose that Jesus was saying 2 would be against 3 but ALL OF THEM would be right? ???

    #279376
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2012,01:18)
    Ed, do you suppose that Jesus was saying 2 would be against 3 but ALL OF THEM would be right?  ???


    Huh?

    #279385
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Luke 12
    51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

    I want to know if you think Jesus was talking about making a division between people, ALL OF WHOM would be right?  Or do you think it makes more sense that some are wrong and some are right?

    #279389
    terraricca
    Participant

    edj

    BACK TO SQUARE ONE

    #279392
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    I agree, Pierre. While it is admirable that Ed is trying to be a peacemaker between trins and non-trins, we cannot serve two masters. God is either ONE, like the scriptures teach, or He is THREE, like the trins teach.

    Both things cannot be correct – and only one of those things is taught in the scriptures.

    #279399
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Good one MB.

    #279644
    Ed J
    Participant

    .

        1. Paradox:  A seemingly absurd or self-contradictory statement or proposition
                        that when investigated or explained may prove to be well founded or true. (David: Yes)

        2. Dichotomy:  Division into two usually contradictory parts or opinions. (T8: Yes)

        3. Do you believe that some Scripture is written on more than one level? (Pierre: Yes) (Mike: Yes) (T8: Yes)


                         I need to remind everyone here of our starting point (table) here.      (1,2,3, – F&G – E,D, J)
                         So Far you guys are agreement with me that my Examples listed as:
                         Evidence Exhibit 1 and Evidence Exhibit 2 are examples of E.      (see table below)

           Hi Mike, Nick and Pierre:

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2012,03:06)
    Luke 12
    51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

    I want to know if you think Jesus was talking about making a division between people, ALL OF WHOM would be right?  Or do you think it makes more sense that some are wrong and some are right?


             John 9:39 For  judgment I am  come into this world,
           that they  which see NOT might see;  and that

             they which see might be made blind.

             Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with;
             and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

    Congratulations!   Your point “D” supports “J”!   BUT FAILS TO PROVE “F”!
    Mike has just gave an illustrative example of the dichotomy F&G.

    I'm glad I got your attention now. No clairvoyance on my part.
    This was an expected move, that is why I laid the foundation.
    The Trinity crowd can assert the same claim you just did (G).

                               Here is the table.

                       1. The definition of “Paradox”
                       2. The definition of “Dichotomy”
                       3. A deeper level of “Luke 12:52”.

    3. Do you believe that some Scripture is written on more than one level? (Pierre: Yes) (Mike: Yes) (T8: Yes)


    3. Luke 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house(J.) divided,
    three(Trins) against two(non-Trins), and two(non-Trins) against three(Trins).

                F&G is a Dichotomy, BECAUSE BOTH CANNOT BE CORRECT!
     
                 F. a.(nT)Non-trinitarians are right / b.(T)trinitarians are wrong

                 G. a.(T)Trinitiarians are right / b.(nT)non-trinitarians are wrong.

            The lie in each of these (F&G) is used by both sides in an attempt to
           nullify the truth of “The Paradox” (J). which is what I will be illustrating!

    The Paradox is:
                  J. (T)trinitarians are right  /  (nT)Non-trinitarians are right


    CERTAIN NECESSARY EXCERPTS FROM PAST POSTS…

    In this thread, I will be seeking SMALL INCREMENTAL AGREEMENTS
    based exclusively on point lettered “E.” to each piece of evidence.

    E. What is the least of things we “CAN” agree upon, regarding each particular piece of evidence .             <– pointing to the "J" paradox

    D. What is the most that a particular piece of evidence can exemplify. (What is it suppose to prove)         <– pointing to the "F&G" dichotomy

    So, based on your agreement with me on point #3 and your understanding of a paradox(1),
    the basis of this thread will be based on the Exegetic paradox of Luke 12:52; called “J”.
    I will be using these letters and numbers throughout the course of our study here.

    Example: Your point is “D” supporting “J”, but it fails to prove “F”.
    This will no doubt be what I shall be seeing from the non-Trin “F” crowd.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #279645
    Ed J
    Participant

    .
           
               When you’re one step ahead of everyone else, you’re “a Genius”.
               If you are two steps ahead of everyone else, you are “a Crackpot”.
               If you’re more than two steps ahead, you are “a Delusional Nutcase”.


    Evidence Exhibit 3:

        F.    YOU (non-Trins) say  THEY (Trins)  got the wrong  “God”,       <– see point #F   (table is on previous post)
        G.    THEY (Trins) say  YOU (non-Trins)  got the wrong  “Jesus”.    <– see point #G   (table is on previous post)

    ————–
    “Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” ~ JEHOVAH GOD  


    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 20 2012,03:14)
    edj    
    BACK TO SQUARE ONE

    pIERRE, glad you can see me(Ed J) at  Square 1.  I will draw YOU a clearer picture:

    J. The Trins see God as three…                         <– An incomplete picture

    J. The non-Trins see God as One…                         <– An incomplete picture

    עד (Ed)  The complete picture  –>                        <–  J. (T)Trins are right  /  (nT)non-Trins are right              

    ————–
    To him that overcometh (as Ed J   ) will I grant to sit with me in my throne,
    even as I(יהשוע) also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He
    that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.” (Rev 3:21-22)

             

    ————–
    Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
    יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    עד (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

    #279646
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2012,03:20)

    I agree, Pierre.  While it is admirable that Ed is trying to be a peacemaker between trins and non-trins, we cannot serve two masters.  God is either ONE, like the scriptures teach, or He is THREE, like the trins teach.

    Both things cannot be correctand only one of those things is taught in the scriptures.


    Hi Mike,

    Glad to see you now are beginning to understand the F&G dichotomy!

    Matt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #279700
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Ed,

    I haven't the foggiest idea of what you're prattling on about. :)

    #279702
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2012,03:20)

    God is either ONE, like the scriptures teach, or He is THREE, like the trins teach.

    Both things cannot be correct – and only one of those things is taught in the scriptures.


    Hi Mike,

    God box graph

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #279703
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2012,09:47)
    Ed,

    I haven't the foggiest idea of what you're prattling on about.  :)


    Stay tuned

    #279948
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi ED,
    Do you think your formulas and boxes based on the AKJV really add anything to scriptural wisdom?
    Certainly the Maji found Jesus by using occult wisdom.
    But should we walk that path?

    #279959
    Ed J
    Participant

    Evidence Exhibit 3:

    non-Trins say Trins  got the wrong  “God”,   (F.)

    Trins say non-Trins  got the wrong  “God”.   (G.)
     

    G. The Trins see God as three…                        <– An incomplete picture

    F. The non-Trins see God as One…                         <– An incomplete picture

                                                                                     <– The complete picture

              “To him that overcometh ( ) will I grant to sit with me in my throne,
              even as I(יהשוע) also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
           He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.” (Rev 3:21-22)

                        Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners,
                but fellowcitizens ( ) with the saints, and of
    the household of God;
                And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets. (Eph 2:19-22)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #279963
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 22 2012,12:09)
    Hi ED,
    Do you think your formulas and boxes based on the AKJV really add anything to scriptural wisdom?
    Certainly the Maji found Jesus by using occult wisdom.
    But should we walk that path?


    Hi Nick,

    As I told you before, we are looking into this conflict in different way.
    My goal here is to completely illustrate why each view, though correct,
    is still an incomplete view of “The Big Picture”; which is ever expanding.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #279968
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2012,09:47)
    Ed,
    I haven't the foggiest idea of what you're prattling on about.  :)


    Hey Nick,

    You do see why I have to proceed slowly, don't you? (see Mike's quote)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #279985
    Ed J
    Participant

    For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then (now) face to face:
    now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. (1 Cor 13:12)


    Evidence Exhibit 4:

     F.   The non-Trins see God as One…                         <– An incomplete picture
       

     G.   The Trins see God as three…                        <– An incomplete picture


                    non-Trins say Trins  got the wrong  “God”,    (F.)

                 Trins say non-Trins  got the wrong  “Jesus”.  (G.)


                          Seeing Jesus at the right hand of GOD

                             Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God   

                                NOTE: View, is a face to face view.


                The right Jesus with the right GOD

             Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone   ;   In whom all
         the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the LORD:

         In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit,

    .

    #281157
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2012,15:08)
    For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then (now) face to face:
    now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. (1 Cor 13:12)


    Evidence Exhibit 4:

     F.   The non-Trins see God as One…                         <– An incomplete picture
       

     G.   The Trins see God as three…                        <– An incomplete picture


                    non-Trins say Trins  got the wrong  “God”,    (F.)

                 Trins say non-Trins  got the wrong  “Jesus”.  (G.)


                          Seeing Jesus at the right hand of GOD

                             Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God   

                                NOTE: View, is a face to face view.


                The right Jesus with the right GOD

             Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone   ;   In whom all
         the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the LORD:

         In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit,

    .


    Quote
    The Trins see God as three… <– An incomplete picture

    Edj,

    There is definitely ONE GOD.

    But regarding His spirit,God is a complex spirit.

    I Look at God as LOVE,POWER,AND WISDOM'

    These three virtues are fundamental,because all creation is founded on them.

    I as a trinitarian believe that the FATHER IS GOD'S LOVE ITSELF.

    The Son is GOD'S WISDOM.and the Holy Spirit is GOD'S POWER.

    peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #281172
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi C,
    The Holy Spirit is OF God.
    One Spirit.

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