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Hi,
Jn11.25
‘I am the resurrection and the life: he that believe that in me , though he were dead, yet shall he live:
and whosoever live the and believeth in me shall never die. Believes thou this?’
She saith unto him
’ Yea Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world’
witness after witness testifies that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.
But folks prefer the silly ideas of men?
If we really think about the Trinity it would really be hard to think that the holy spirit is the third person of the god_ head, if we can prove that this is true,that the holy spirit isn’t the third person… the Trinity is fasle. which it is. put the blame on saint Augustine I don’t know why the refomers hung on to this one!! It just doesn’t make sense
Hi Anthony,
Yes it was my increasing discomfort with the trinity dogma that brought me here 13 or so years ago and I was able to honestly discuss the subject and to find that it was folly. Knowing that God worked through His Spirit and that Jesus was an instrument empowered by that Spirit disproved the concept. Since then I have become aware that it is all a massive insult to our God.
Hi Anthony,
You must realise that all the words theologians give you are designed around there dogma,.
God is not a PERSON and there are not THREE PERSONS in God.
There is no such thing as a GODHEAD.
The words translated as such have different meanings.
Anothny. ….We can always know the spirit of truth is leading a person, by the FACT THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY, all people that truly love truth will sooner or later come to that same conclusion brother. This is how we can tell who is of God and who isn’t, by the spirit of truth leading them. All who believe and preach the “TRINITY” are not of God, that is why you see very little mircales done in those false churches, why should God the Father add his approval to their words, confirming them by doing mircales in them. Anothny you will grow here and become a part of true believers. Peace
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi, I registered specifically to commend you for a job well done on the trinity doctrine!
With that said, your work will prove to be a valuable resource for Bible students and aspiring Christians the world abound
Take care and may God bless you and yours
John
Thanks for feedback @johnbee. That is awesome.
God has divine nature, but many teach divine nature has God
Here is a difference between identity and nature. You can change your nature, but you are still you. For example, the Son of God was divine, but he emptied himself and came in the flesh. Yet, regardless of nature, he was still the Son of God.
Yet doctrines like the Trinity define God primarily as divine nature or a substance. Thus the Father is divine, the Son is divine, and the Spirit. So all three must be God. Many denominations are based on creeds that go something like this:
God is one God, and exists in the form of three coeternal and consubstantial persons: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are distinct, yet are one “substance, essence or nature”…
But scripturally speaking, God is not defined as a substance or by his nature. Yes God has divine nature, but there is only one true God, yet in scripture, more than one person who is not God has divine nature.
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.If divine nature defines God, then many people would be God too. Let’s look at another example. We know that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. And we know that the Word became flesh.
2 John 7
For many deceivers have entered into the world who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichristJohn 1:1-2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God…John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.Can you see how nature doesn’t define the person and that you are still you, even if your nature changes? If Jesus Christ is the divine Word spoken of in John 1:1, then emptying himself and coming in the flesh would mean that he is a completely different person if nature is what defines God.
So why then is God defined as a substance or divine nature in many church creeds? God is a person. He is called HE, HIM. A divine substance that contains multiple persons is not a HE or HIM. The true faith that as been passed down is that God is one. That this God is the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. That he is our God and the God of Jesus Christ too.
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Ephesians 4:4-6
4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.John 20:17
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’A person has substance.
A substance doesn’t have a person.
The Trinity assumes the latter simply because there is one divine substance but more than one person who is composed of that. And because God is one, not three, thus God means the one substance part. At least the Trinity spells out that there is a difference between a person and substance. However, it is very difficult to undo centuries of tradition.
God is a person or single identity. He is the Father.
Proclaimer
THE SON IS THE REFLECTION OF THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER, THE EVEN FOOTPRINT OF HIS PERSON (HUPOSTASIS)
Exactly Paul said:
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,HUPOSTASIS
from a compound of upo – hupo 5259 and isthmi – histemi 2476; a setting under (support), i.e. (figuratively) concretely, essence, or abstractly, assurance (objectively or subjectively): – confidence, confident, person, substance.
WHAT GOD THE FATHER IS, SO IS THE SON.
THE FATHER AND THE SON DOES NOT FORM ONE GOD BECAUSE 👉ONLY GOD THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD. 👈
THE SON IS ONLY GOD👉 IN INFINITY BUT NOT IN PERSONALITY.👈GOD THE FATHER ONLY IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND THE SON IS A REFLECTION OF ALL THAT THE FATHER IS.
THIS IS WHY I BELEIVE THAT THE SON HAS IN HIMSELF SINCE HE WAS BEGOTTEN ALL THE DIVINE ATTRIBUTES OF HIS FATHER: OMNIPOTENCE, OMNISCIENCE, OMNIPRESENCE, ETERNITY …..
ALREADY THIS IS THE FIRST STAGE …. THEN COMES THE INCARNATION OF THE SON …..Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.You are arguing for nature or form which I am in agreement with.
God is an identity or person though, not a nature.
God’s Sons have or participate in divine nature because they are born of God and therefore are like him.
The Son of God is in fact the very image of the invisible God.
There is a reason why Jesus Christ is the Son of God and not God himself.
“For us, there is one God, the Father…”
Nature is not Identity and vice versa.
Proclaimer
You are arguing for nature or form which I am in agreement with.
God is an identity or person though, not a nature.
Me
Yes God IS a person, He IS God in PERSONALITY…..
The Greek Word “HUPOSTASIS” translated as “person” in King James, can also be translated as “essence” or substance.
WE SEE That in some versions
Hebrews 1: 3
Hebrews 1: 3, ESV: “He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, ”
Hebrews 1: 3, NASB: “And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His NATURE, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, ”
”
Hebrews 1: 3, CSB: “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact expression of his NATURE, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high . ”
Hébreux 1.3 — The Lexham English Bible (LEB)
3 who is the radiance of his glory and the representation of HIS ESSENCE, sustaining all things by the word of power. When he had made purification for sins through him, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,…WHAT STRENGTHENS THE IDEA THAT THE SON IS EVERYTHING THE FATHER “IS” IS WRITTEN IN VERSET 3 OF CHAP.1
“and upholding all things by the word of HIS power”Hebrews 1.3 – The Lexham English Bible (LEB)
3 who is the radiance of his glory and the representation of HIS ESSENCE, SUSTAINING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF POWER. When he had made purification for sins through him, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,THIS ECHOSED WITH PAUL TO THE COLOSSIANS
all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST.WHY ALL THINGS CONSIST?
BECAUSE IN HIM WAS ORIGINAL POWER OF LIFE THAT HE INHERITED FROM THE FATHER WHEN HE WAS BEGOTTEN IN ETERNITY PAST.
John 6:25-26
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.👇
👉For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath 👉he given to the Son to have life in himself;
IN THIS LIFE IS THE POWER WHICH WILL RISE THE DEAD AT THE END OF TIMES AT THE RETURN OF JESUS.
AMEN!
“He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature,
So we see two sets of things here.
He and God’s glory and nature.
They are not the same thing.
One is the person. The others are attributes of the person.
God is a He too and has attributes.
So do we.
We never think the attribute is the person, but that the person has attributes.
The Trinity basically states that God is a substance with three Hes coming from that substance.
But that is not what the Bible says.
who is the radiance of his glory and the representation of HIS ESSENCE,
Once again we have two different things here.
HIS & ESSENSE
Essense does not mean His.
He can have an essense of course. He can have attributes. He can have a nature. He has a certain character. He has a Son. He has a Father. He has children…
Go is a He not them.
Proclaimer,
If Jesus, the Son of God is not God (has the divine attributes: OMNIPOTENCE ….. OMNIPRESENCE, OMNISCIENCE … ETC
WHAT IS IT THEN?
A BEING CREATED LIKE ANGELS?He is not God himself, but was divine.
He is not created, but was man.
He is the Son of God.
The Word of God.
Born of God.
Only begotten.
He is unique.
The first to be with God.
In between God and man.
Have you not read that the head of the man is Christ and the head of Christ is God?
Proclaimer..
He is not God himself, but is Devine ………..so can we receive the Devine nature.
He is not created, but was man….he was created and born, exactly the same way we are
He is Son of God……..according to Jesus we are also, sons of God
The word of God…….Not according to what Jesus said about ‘his’ words.
Born of God …………So are we
only begotten………. No…. We are also begotten .
In between God and man…….if God is your “first love” then nothing is between you and him. The “man” Jesus is indeed a mediator between men and God.
The Man Jesus is the head of all of human creation , he is the first human to be resurrected of “many” brothers into the kingdom of God
he is unique…….yes uniquely born
the first to be with God……yes the first of the human kind to be with God
peace and love to you and yours………..gene
The gospel according to Gene
In between God and man…….if God is your “first love” then nothing is between you and him. The “man” Jesus is indeed a mediator between men and God.
You second sentence contradicts the first. Further, he is actually the firstborn of all creation.
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Here are more scriptures that you seem to ignore:
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
So Christ is indeed between us and God as far as headship goes.
And if you translated a Bible, would you change:
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
to this:
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, NOT before all ages, BUT from now on! Amen.
When I see blatant disregard for scripture and an un-waving faith in one’s own mistranslations, I can certainly understand why the world is full of cults.
For me it is take scripture as it is, or reject it as false. None of this middle ground where you create something new so it makes sense to yours or anyone else’s feeble mind.
Is HN still debating the trinity? 😀
The answer to all this is – all of you are right, and all of you are wrong.
People have their different perspectives /stages of perception of who God is, and that is okay.
To confuse others and insist your view is right is what is wrong.
IMO, repent if you need to. I did.
I am trinitarian now, thanks mainly to a Christian brother I went to school with (Maori guy turned hundreds of locals to God), and his wife making sense to me, and something I read on here.
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