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What really happened though was no one was ever able to show me the Trinity in scripture.
It is the Spirit alone that reveals this unity in Scripture.. we can show you the verses but if you are conditioned to understand things solely by human logic – you will never get it..!!
(..just as you can never logically comprehend that God had no beginning)..
this would give ample opportunity for others to show me where I erred. I awaited correction, and upon getting it, I expected to then teach the Trinity more than anyone once I was corrected.
How can you receive revelation when you rely on debates to determine truth – God is not an argument..!?
How can you receive the words of Christ in a pure and unbiased way, when you have already made up your mind that what you defend is the complete truth, and everyone else is deceived..!?
I have come to bring you correction – but you are not willing to be corrected..!! and now you view yourself in a superior and more enlightened position than everyone else’s supposedly imprisoned state…so that even when it is pointed out in black and white where you have erred – you simply overlook it and carry on.
DavidL,
Has anyone ever explained the how the idea of the Trinity is derived from Scripture or have you ever tried to figure it out.
Last night I was reading one of the Psalms from the AV of the KJV and was surprised when that a man’s soul is refereed to as “she”.
Does that mean that a human being is two persons in one individual?
t8
when it says that there is only one God, the Father, you disagree.
God is the Father – I do not disagree…
But you’ve left something important out…
“I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.”
How do we have eternal life…?
By believing in the Father ALONE..??
NO – it is Father and Son TOGETHER…!!!
“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.” John 14:23
Please consider this in connection to the Scriptures you quote…and you will find that the Oneness Christ spoke of is more than just some vague ‘agreeing in the Spirit’ – but indeed, very literal and real.. and confirmed even in the actual texts you use to deny it.
Nick,
David repeats only what he has heard from other humans and so see reason as a sin. He does not seek to understand why being one with God mean one thing when spoken of Jesus but yet another when spoken of those believe in the Christ. He just keeps insisting that it does as if his insisting makes his argument convincing. He does not seem to realize that to successfully use an ethos argument you must first establish you credibility.
@DavidL. Hopefully you are one with God and Jesus as Jesus prayed that we should.
But if this oneness makes you God as you claim, THEN YOU CANNOT BE ONE WITH GOD.
You have been caught out in your own craftiness DavidL.
Either way you have lost your point because from your standpoint, you are either not one with God, or you are and that makes you God.
If you spoke the truth about this matter, you would not end up with such problems.
I desire to be one with God myself, but obviously you cannot do that as it would be blasphemy in your eyes.
This is your loss and how can I trust the words of a man who does not believe he can be one with God and his son?
DavidL…….THERE IS NO TRINITY, NEVER WAS AND NEVER WILL BE. WHY DON’T YOU BELIEVE JESUS WHEN HE “CLEARLY” SAID TO THAT GOD, “YOU” ARE THE “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD”, THE WORD “YOU” IN THAT STATEMENT MEANS SOMEONE OTHER THEN THE ONE SPEAKING, AND “ONLY” MEANS NO OTHER. TRUE MEANS “REAL” , SO THERE IS ONLY “ONE” “TRUE” GOD. SO ALL OTHER SO-CALLED GOD’S HAVE TO FALSE GOD’S, YOU SAY YOU BELIEVE JESUS , SO WHY DENY HIS WORDS THEN? The trinity is nothing but a false teaching, it is not of GOD OR JESUS CHRIST.
peace and love to you and yours. ……………..gene
t8
so this is your “logical” conclusion…”If I’m not God – then Jesus can’t be God”..??Listen.. while in one sense we are brethren of Jesus (because of His humanity) – yet Christ is above all, just as God is above His people..
We are branches – Jesus is the Vine…!
We are the Body – Christ is the Head..!
So we see straight off that there is a distinct superiority to Christ when it comes to Oneness…?
God’s purpose in creation is to have a chosen people for Himself..
(two categories… God – God’s people).
Our oneness connects us to the Vine – as God’s children..
“..For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make My dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.” 2 Cor 6:16
Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be My children.” Revelation 21:7
Our oneness with Christ makes us children..
But Christ’s Oneness with the Father makes Him equal to God..
“Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb…No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and His servants will serve Him.” Revelation 22:1-3
David L……..The vine and it’s branches are THE same thing, THEY ARE MADE OF THE EXACT SAME MATERIAL, THE LIFE OF BOTH THE VINE AND IT’S BRANCHES IS THE WATER THAT FLOWS THROUGH THEM, THE VINE NEEEDS THAT SAME NUTRIENTS AS THE BRANCHES DO, IN ORDER TO GROW and LIVE. GOD SUPPLIES HIS SPIRIT THAT FLOWS THROUGH ALL THE VINE AND IT’S BRANCHES, TO PRODUCE FRUIT. I CAN TAKE A PEACE OF A BRANCH AND PLANT IT INTO THE GROUND with the fruit bud toward the ground and it will grow roots and the vine will beging to grow from the bud that is above the ground. AND IT WILL BECOME A VINE JUST LIKE THE VINE IT CAME FROM. Branches are simply extensions of the vine, I HAVE OWNED VINEYARDS, for years. You must come to see JESUS AS ONE OF US HUMAN BEINGS, TO BE CONNECTED TO HIM PROPERLY. IMO
PEACE peace and Love to you and yours. ………………gene
DavidL
Our oneness with Christ makes us children..
But Christ’s Oneness with the Father makes Him equal to God..
This is not written in Scripture but it is an explanation why an individual chooses to see that being one with God means a different thing when it is speaking about Jesus than when it is speaking about believers.
The bottom line is that you already have your conclusion and you before you are taught it by reading Scripture instead of learning it from Scripture.
The bottom line is that the statement I and the Father are one is a vague statement and therefore cannot be used to prove any doctrine. If you desire to teach the truth then go elsewhere and find a verse that is not open to interpretation.
Here is a conclusion drawn from Scripture that is not debated by rational men and that is that Jesus Christ is a human being that was approved of God among the house of Israel, Acts 2:22. An irrational man can debate anything, such as insisting water is dry.
DavidL,
Logic says Jesus said his Father and our Father is his God and our God therefore the one true God is his Father and our Father and not the Anointed of God.
The premises are 1) Jesus does not lie 2) He made the statement.
So logical being as Jesus does not lie and he states that he has a God it follows that Jesus does have a God.
Trinitarian not Scriptural explanation is that Jesus was not God when he said those words. So basically they claim that Jesus is not God at the exact same time they claim he is God. That is a broken teaching.
First, in your testimony you seem to have conveniently left out the part where you have obviously studied Catholic doctrine and triad belief systems, which unfortunately would have a major impact on how you view Scripture…but you leave this out, so we are left to presume that your teaching is based purely on Scripture…? so even your own testimony is selective and misleading..!
Wrong again DavidL. This statement of yours is not true. So what else are you wrong about?
I didn’t study Catholic Doctrine and only ever looked into it way after realising that the Trinity Doctrine was not taught in scripture.
In fact it was debating earlier Trinity advocates here on Heaven Net that led me to look into it. I realised that the Trinity Doctrine was actually the Catholic Faith at a guess probably around 5 or 6 years ago, but could have been earlier.
God convicted me on the truth about Jesus true identity as the son, the Lord, and the messiah at least 25 to 30 years ago, but it was around 15 years ago that I wrote the Trinity Doctrine writing here on the site. I have edited it over the years.
Will you to be too proud to apologise I wonder? We will see.
What you constantly fail to understand is that to acknowledge the Father as God and Jesus as His Son IN NO WAY INVALIDATES THE TRINITY..
Let me put this another way for you which keeps your understanding intact.
What you constantly fail to understand is that to acknowledge the Father as God and Jesus as His Son IN NO WAY INVALIDATES THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF HIMSELF.
Let me explain. If God is a Trinity, then the Trinity is God. If Jesus is the son OF God, then he is the son of the Trinity.
lol, it is easy to see that false doctrine leads to false conclusions.
Another false conclusion of the Trinity is this. If Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. After all, she gave birth to God.
Of course this is false. We should get our understanding from scripture, not men. Remember that the wise of this world are fools in the sight of God and anyone who believes that Mary is the Mother of God, or Jesus is the son of the Trinity is being foolish.
Oh boy where do I start.
Our oneness with Christ makes us children..
But Christ’s Oneness with the Father makes Him equal to God..And why is that? ‘Just because’ right?
“Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb…No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and His servants will serve Him.” Revelation 22:1-3
Do I really need to point out that there is God and there is the Lamb. One is God and the other the Lamb. Why don’t you believe that?
Back to the drawing board DavidL.
The real problem is not understand that the Father of God is greater in authority but still in perfect oneness with The Son (Adam).
All men, kingdoms and principalities were made through the Son of God there is no me or you less it be through the son of God(Adam)
Hi BD,
The Spirit created.[ps 104]
The Spirit of Christ is of the Spirit of God.
The Word was with God and was God.
I decided to look more closely at John 1:1 -20 . You can read up to and including verse 7 and have no reference to the word having a gender. You can all debate this passage till the cows come home if you want. What im looking at is in tradition.
Verse 10 is the first t5ime a gender is mentioned, and an identity is given. Verse 14:
<dir><span style=”color: #008080; font-size: medium;”>Joh 1:14</span><span style=”font-size: medium;”> And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. </span>
seals the identity. Now, Trinitarians who believe Jesus is co eternal with the father, have a problem with this verse, or do they blindly over look it just agreeing with the tradition? I know trinity pastors who preach Jesus is the WORD of John 1;1. but heartedly believe the same identity is co eternal with the Father. There comes a grammatical error to.
Father, English dictionary
1Biological male parent of a child. 2.The term is also used for the man who has raised a child, who is not his biological offspring, such as an adopted child. As a parent, the father has a certain legal relationship with the child, which carries defined rights and obligations to the child.
If Jesus or spiritual equivalent was always coeternal then why does he call God ,Father? see dictionary definition.
The very first words of Johns gospel say “in the beginning”, he states the word became flesh. Now Jesus him self in resurrected state said he is the beginning and he was the beginning of Gods creation. So who telling half truths? It isn’t Jesus.
</dir>John 17:5. Jesus asks His Father to return to him the glory he had with his Father before he came to this world. He asked his Father. not tell an eual co eternal partner.
What gives an erroneous doctrine the power to let these verses go seemingly unnoticed
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