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Quote (t8 @ Dec. 16 2012,04:44) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 13 2012,05:17) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 11 2012,23:38) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 12 2012,11:15) You say He is Lord.
I say He is LORD!LORD as in Jehovah, the Son.
You can't say that Jesus is LORD as in Jehovah, the Son.
How can God make Jesus LORD?
Exactly! One has to always exist to be given that name. Hint, hint…the mystery is unfolding before your eyes.
God made Jesus, Lord. In nearly every bible in existence and even in the Dead Sea Scrolls, it says Lord not LORD.But if God made Jesus LORD, (as you say), then that is actually impossible because you cannot make someone anything if they are already that thing for all eternity.
This demonstrates your faulty reasoning and again you have been caught out.
No one can say Jesus is Lord unless they have the Spirit of God. And you can't say it because you are teaching a different view, that Jesus is YHWH.
Snapped LU.
Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
This scripture is referring to you LU, among other people of course.
t8,
The point is, you and your two cohorts cannot confess that Yeshua is the Lord Jehovah.This is a confession of Christians all over the world!
How is it that Christians all over the world see this and you three don't?
Perhaps we SEE something that you won't.
Christians all over the world really do believe that the Son is being spoken of as doing this:
Heb 1:10 He also says to the Son, “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundation of the earth and made the heavens with your hands.
YHWH laid the foundation of the earth and made the heavens with His hands.
Christians believe that YHWH who laid the foundation of the earth and made the heavens with His hands to be Jesus, YHWH the Son. We don't just believe that He is a 'the theos' but we also believe that He is YHWH, the Son and the Lord of lords.
You three cannot seem to confess these things. I don't believe that you, t8, can confess that Jesus is mentioned as 'the theos' in scripture. I have waited and have not seen any response to the three verses that I showed you where there is an article with theos and they all refer to Jesus. There is a reason this is not your confession and it is not because it is not true…you do not want to accept it, imo.
Just say it:
Jesus is the theos that laid the foundation of the earth and made the heavens with His hands who is also referred to as YHWH.This confession does not threaten the Father…it glorifies Him through His Son being honored.
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 17 2012,11:18) t8,Dec. wrote:[/quote]
Quote 1 Timothy 6:15-16 (English-NIV)
15 which God will bring about in his own time, God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
.t8,
Read this version:
DRB:
1Timothy 6:14 thou keep the commandment without spot, blameless, unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,SO THE ABOVE IS A CLEAR REFERENCE TO JESUS CHRIST WHEN HE RETURNS IN THE GLORY OF THE FATHER, OR IN THE GLORY OF BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH AS ONE BEING, THE ONLY TRUE GOD,AND JESUS CHRIST!!!
15 Which in his times he shall shew who is the Blessed and only Mighty, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
HERE IT CONTINUES REFERRING TO JESUS CHRIST BY SAYING:
WHICH IN HIS ( JESUS) TIMES, obvious when He return to judge all in His SPIRIT, and FLESH state, the only true God and Jesus Christ HE (JESUS)SHALL SHOW WHO IS THE BLESSED,AND ONLY MIGHTY, THE KING OF KINGS(JESUS CHRIST),AND LORD OF LORDS( JESUS CHRIST)
16 Who only hath immortality, and inhabiteth light inaccessible, whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and empire everlasting. Amen.
WHO ONLY HAD IMMORTALITY, obvious the Father’s Spirit in Jesus’ flesh body, AND INHABITED LIGHT INACCESSIBLE, obvious again the Father’s Spirit inhabited the light, Jesus Christ flesh body,
GENESIS 1:3And God said: Be light made. And light was made
NOTICE GOD SAID: BE LIGHT MADE: THIS IS A REFERENCE TO THE SON’S SPIRIT LEAVING THE FATHER TO COMMENCE CREATION THROUGH THE ONLY LIGHT JESUS CHRIST JOHN 1:4,JOHN 8:12, JOHN 9:15, JOHN 12:46, 1 JOHN 2:8
THEN IT CONCLUDES:
WHO NO MAN HAD SEEN, NOR CAN SEE, obvious again the Father’s Spirit TO WHOM BE HONOUR AND EMPIRE EVERLASTING.AMEN
So as you can read in your version it USES “GOD”
WHERE IN THE DRB VERSION THE ONE I TRUST IT IS REFERRING TO THE :
LORD JESUS CHRIST GLORIFIED IN THE SPIRIT OF THE FATHER!!!
SO JESUS CHRIST IS GOD GLORIFIED IN JESUS’ BODY,SINCE AS A SPIRIT NO ONE CAN SEE!!!
John 17:1……………. Father, the hour is come, glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee.
NOTICE: HE SAYS: GLORIFY YOUR SON,THAT YOUR SON MAY GLORIFY YOU!!!
SO THE FATHER AND THE SON GLORIFY EACH OTHER!!! OBVIOUS THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT.TILL THE LAST DAY WHEN THE FATHER WOULD BE ALL IN ALL!!!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
CharlesNo it is not Christ ,look at verse 13 ,
mikeboll64,Dec. wrote:[/quote]
Quote nor is he worshipped by anyone in any scripture. Mike,
Read and reflect:
[/B] Isaiah: 45:14Thus saith the Lord: ( God the Father)
The labour of Egypt, and the merchandise of Ethiopia, and of Sabaim, men of stature shall come over to thee, ( JESUS CHRIST)
and shall be thins: they shall walk after thee, they shall go bound with manacles: and they shall worship thee,(JESUS CHRIST)
and shall make supplication to thee: only in thee ( JESUS CHRIST)is God, and there is no God besides thee. (JESUS CHRIST GOD IN FLESH)
Isaiah 45:15 Verily thou art a hidden God, ( in JESUS FLESH BODY)the God of Israel the saviour.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
mikeboll64,Dec. wrote:[/quote]
Quote nor is he worshipped by anyone in any scripture. Mike,
Read:
Luke 24:50 And he led them out as far as Bethania: and lifting up his hands, he blessed them. 51 And it came to pass, whilst he blessed them, he departed from them, and was carried up to heaven. 52 And they adoring went back into Jerusalem with great joy
Matthew 2:11And entering into the house, they found the child with Mary his mother, and falling down they adored him; and opening their treasures, they offered him gifts; gold, frankincense, and myrrh. 12 And having received an answer in sleep that they should not return to Herod, they went back another way into their country.
Matthew 14:32 And when they were come up into the boat, the wind ceased. 33 And they that were in the boat came and adored him, saying: Indeed thou art the Son of God.
Matthew 28:9 running to tell his disciples. 9 And behold Jesus met them, saying: All hail. But they came up and took hold of his feet, and adored him
Peace and loe in Jesus
Charles
Hi Charles,
I understand that translators have popularly translated Paul as saying that satan is the god of this world but many have doubts and for good reason. We know that God has blinded the eyes of others but for it to be said of satan, we cannot find a reference to him specifically blinding the eyes of men or being called the god of this world anywhere else. We know that YHWH is the God of this world, He created it and sustains it and so loved this world that He gave His only begotten Son to die for this world.Look at the verse where you think Paul calls satan the god of this world:
2 Cor 4:4 NASB
in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.Look how a different perspective is shown when believing that the word 'theos' is meant for God and not god:
2 Cor 4:4 Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Those whose intellects The God of this world has blinded, because they do not believe, lest the light of The Gospel of the glory of The Messiah, who is the image of God, should dawn upon them.Now consider this passage about what God thinks of the wisdom of this world:
18For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19For it is written,
“I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE.”20Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Also, see this passage to show that God blinds the eyes (according to His justice):
John 12: 37But though He had performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in Him. 38This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?” 39For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, 40“HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.” 41These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him. 42Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.
Romans 11
7What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;8just as it is written,
“GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY.”How about Romans 9
14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” 16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.” 18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.YHWH has mercy on whom He desires and He hardens whom He desires.
YHWH is not found by the wisdom of man but by the grace of God who gives knowledge leading to salvation.
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 17 2012,19:18) t8,Dec. wrote:[/quote]
Quote 1 Timothy 6:15-16 (English-NIV)
15 which God will bring about in his own time, God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
.t8,
Read this version:
DRB:
1Timothy 6:14 thou keep the commandment without spot, blameless, unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,SO THE ABOVE IS A CLEAR REFERENCE TO JESUS CHRIST WHEN HE RETURNS IN THE GLORY OF THE FATHER, OR IN THE GLORY OF BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH AS ONE BEING, THE ONLY TRUE GOD,AND JESUS CHRIST!!!
………………
Charles
Charles if you are arguing that Jesus Christ is the only true God, then by reason of that, you are excluding the Father.Also, it is clearly written “the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent”. Further, the one true God is said to have a son. So if Jesus is the one true God, then he has a son and worse, that son is called Jesus Christ. So now we have 2 called Jesus Christ. One who is the one true God, and the other his son.
As you can plainly see, you have to be wrong to say that Jesus Christ is the one true God. And if you read those scriptures correctly as Jesus being the son of that one true God, then you have the truth. Further, it says that God was in Jesus Christ redeeming the world back to himself. So that is how this should be viewed. Not that he is God, but that God is in him and he in him.
Likewise we can be one with them too and one with each other. And we are not the one true God either.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 17 2012,21:18) Hi Charles,
I understand that translators have popularly translated Paul as saying that satan is the god of this world but many have doubts and for good reason. We know that God has blinded the eyes of others but for it to be said of satan, we cannot find a reference to him specifically blinding the eyes of men or being called the god of this world anywhere else. We know that YHWH is the God of this world, He created it and sustains it and so loved this world that He gave His only begotten Son to die for this world.
God is light.God blinds people because they choose darkness and so he gives it to them. He hands them over to this.
God uses Satan and demons to effect his will.
e.g., God tempts no man. But he allows us to be tempted so that we may be perfected. So when we are tempted, is that God tempting us. No it isn't. But just as the son learned obedience in this world, so should we.
No matter how you argue this LU, this world is wicked and to say that YHWH is the God of this world is to say that he made the world wicked.
God is not the Father of this world just the same that he is not the Father of lies.
Satan is the god of this world. That is why God's (sole) Kingdom will eventually bring down all the kingdoms of this world.
A kingdom is ruled by a king and who are the kings of this world. You would have to say YHWH.
Your view is God casting out God if you think he is the God of this world.
By this alone, you are proven wrong.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 17 2012,19:39) t8,
The point is, you and your two cohorts cannot confess that Yeshua is the Lord Jehovah.This is a confession of Christians all over the world!
How is it that Christians all over the world see this and you three don't?
MANY shall say Lord Lord did we not….And he will say, “I never knew you”.
We live in a dark world. Babylon has made the whole world drunk on her wine. Did you expect the world to know the truth or something. Christendom is not the Kingdom of God, it is one of the Kingdoms of this world just as there are many others.
The reason people are deceived is because they reject the light. The seed is choked by the cares of this world.
It is the Pope and the Catholic Church who enforce this false doctrine and expect the world to follow. And anyone who takes the place of Christ is Antichrist. So not advisable to follow such a man and not advisable to build on his foundation either.
Athanasius deceived many when he made this creed of which you have stumbled yourself.
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith, except a man keep whole and integral, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. Now the Catholic Faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Have you not read that this Babylon becomes a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, … Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith…
The light of a lamp
will never shine in you again.
The voice of bridegroom and bride
will never be heard in you again.Why do you still dwell there?
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 16 2012,21:54) is that a car dealer next to your home
Have you been spying on me?
It is actually a taxi cab dispatch office and shop, but the owner also sells some used cars now and then. I bought a '96 Geo Prizm from him, figuring that if it lasted me a year, I got my money's worth. That was five years, and four road trips to California ago. We leave for California trip number five on Dec 31st.
I don't think that car is ever gonna die.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2012,05:52) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 16 2012,21:54) is that a car dealer next to your home
Have you been spying on me?It is actually a taxi cab dispatch office and shop, but the owner also sells some used cars now and then. I bought a '96 Geo Prizm from him, figuring that if it lasted me a year, I got my money's worth. That was five years, and four road trips to California ago. We leave for California trip number five on Dec 31st.
I don't think that car is ever gonna die.
no and yes I never went west of Texas but everywhere east of that state
I hope you have a good trip and may God be with you ,
Thanks Pierre.
Now when you say, “May God be WITH me”, do you mean that the entire BEING of God Almighty will be riding in my car with me?
Or are you saying that you hope God will METAPHORICALLY be “with me”, by way of watching over me, protecting me, and guiding me?
(Of course I know it is the latter. I just wish some of the other people here would understand such language.
)Quote (t8 @ Dec. 17 2012,16:47) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 17 2012,19:39) t8,
The point is, you and your two cohorts cannot confess that Yeshua is the Lord Jehovah.This is a confession of Christians all over the world!
How is it that Christians all over the world see this and you three don't?
MANY shall say Lord Lord did we not….And he will say, “I never knew you”.
We live in a dark world. Babylon has made the whole world drunk on her wine. Did you expect the world to know the truth or something. Christendom is not the Kingdom of God, it is one of the Kingdoms of this world just as there are many others.
The reason people are deceived is because they reject the light. The seed is choked by the cares of this world.
It is the Pope and the Catholic Church who enforce this false doctrine and expect the world to follow. And anyone who takes the place of Christ is Antichrist. So not advisable to follow such a man and not advisable to build on his foundation either.
Athanasius deceived many when he made this creed of which you have stumbled yourself.
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith, except a man keep whole and integral, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. Now the Catholic Faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Have you not read that this Babylon becomes a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, … Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith…
The light of a lamp
will never shine in you again.
The voice of bridegroom and bride
will never be heard in you again.Why do you still dwell there?
Oh now Christiandom is Babylon…
Why, because Christians believe that Jesus is God over all in this verse:Romans 9:5
To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.Does that verse just make you want to tear it out of your bible, the idontwanttobelievejesusismygodtoo version?
Christendom is a kingdom. It is not the same as the Kingdom of God.
Jesus said that if his kingdom was of this world, then he would have an army to fight for him.
There are 2 pearls of wisdom here.
1) That YHWH cannot be the God of this world if the Kingdom of God and his Christ is not of this world. Unless YHWH has multiple kingdoms.
2) That Christendom had armies and has killed millions of people including those who would not comply with the false Trinity Doctrine, the very sign of not being God's Kingdom.It must be noted however that Christendom has multiple meanings. I took this for example from Wikipedia.
“Christendom is originally a medieval concept steadily to have evolved since the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the gradual rise of the Papacy more in religio-temporal implication practically during and after the reign of Charlemagne;
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 18 2012,19:16) God never gave up the world to satan, although satan would like you to think that.
Okay, but he let Satan rule it anyway. Is that your stance?Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 14 2012,03:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 12 2012,17:34) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 12 2012,09:22) Mike,
A perfect example of God giving the words through Moses to Aaron showing that they are God's words and not Moses' own words.Read and learn.
Oh, you mean like Jesus speaking, not of his own initiative, but ONLY what his God and our God had TOLD him to speak?Read and learn.
Mike,
Moses passed on God's words.
Jesus speaks His and the Father's word. They are united in what they say and do. They act and speak as one God.
Jesus speaks what he hears the Father saying and does what he does.John 8:28-29
“So Jesus said to them, ‘When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me. And he who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.’”John 5:30
“I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”So let's see. If LU believes the above, she is saying that YHWH does nothing from his own authority, but on the authority of the OTHER one.
More confusion. More babylon courtesy of LU.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 13 2012,05:19) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 11 2012,23:39) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 12 2012,11:15) You say He is Lord.
I say He is LORD!LORD as in Jehovah, the Son.
You can't say that Jesus is LORD as in Jehovah, the Son.
Scripture says he is Lord.And you deny that he is Lord.
What does scripture say about that.
Something serious.
Are you serious. You think that I deny that Jesus is Lord??What have you been smoking?
LU, are you not saying that the scripture is saying Jesus is LORD. If so, then it is NOT saying that he is Lord because it is saying he is LORD.Two different words, hence why translators change the case.
So if Jesus is LORD to you and I say Jesus is Lord, then by that reason, one of us has to be antichrist.
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