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Yawn…!
'Son of God' means to 'be born of God, that is, to be in the Holy Spirit' and to follow in the way of God.
'Son of Man' means to be born of the flesh.
Jesus is both 'Son of God' and 'Son of Man'
Jesus, himself, said that all 'Sons of Men' who overcome as he overcame and are born again in the Spirit, will also become 'Sons of God' as he became 'Son of God' when he overcame death and was reborn of God in the Spirit.
So, if 'Son of God' is as WJ says then all of mankind who overcome and are reborn in the Spirit, will also be God.
Really?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 24 2010,02:30) Its a strawmans argument since the word “Theos” (God) does not classify identity, but a being that is in a metaphysical class of its own.
Yes WJ,A class that Paul included Satan and others in.
mike
To Trinitarians.
Be honest at least with yourself.
If God is 3 persons, then how many souls does God have?
Is it 3 souls? Because soul is what defines a person's identity. Has a being ever existed with more than one soul? A substance with 3 persons mixed together?Well, we know from scripture that God is one person and not three because God has a soul and not 3 souls.
Yahweh tests the righteous and the wicked, and His soul hates him that loves violence. (Psalm 11:5).
There are six things which Yahweh hates, seven which are an abomination to His soul. (Proverbs 6:16).
Then Yahweh said to me, “Even though Moses and Samuel were to stand before Me, My soul would not be with this people. (Jeremiah 15:1).
How notice when God talks about his son, God makes reference to his own soul.
Behold, My servant whom I have chosen, My beloved in whom My soul is well pleased. (Matthew 12:18).
Trinitarians, be honest with yourself. In order to keep your doctrine intact, you have to read “Yahweh tests the righteous and the wicked, and His soul hates him that loves violence. (Psalm 11:5)” as “Yahweh tests the righteous and the wicked, and their souls hate him that loves violence. (Psalm 11:5).”.
I have said this on a number of occassions and I repeat it again, the Trinity is nothing but confusion and God is not the God of confusion or the author of deceptive doctrines.
If you trust your doctrine, why is it that you do not call God “THEM”. No you call him, “HIM”. Strange isn't it.
Is it not also suspicious to you that when you replace the word God in scripture with Trinity, it breaks nearly every scripture with that word in it.e.g., For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…
becomes: For the Trinity so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…See how the Trinity example causes confusion. How can the Trinity have a son, when the son is already in the Trinity? See you have four now and two sons.
Wake up Trinitarians. Repent of your foolish pride in your own understanding. God has made the wise of this world foolish.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2010,09:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 24 2010,02:30) Its a strawmans argument since the word “Theos” (God) does not classify identity, but a being that is in a metaphysical class of its own.
Yes WJ,A class that Paul included Satan and others in.
mike
You mean that Jesus was in a “false god” class?WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2010,09:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 24 2010,02:30) Its a strawmans argument since the word “Theos” (God) does not classify identity, but a being that is in a metaphysical class of its own.
Yes WJ,A class that Paul included Satan and others in.
mike
Really?Was satan or any other false “theos” a “Monogenes” (only of its kind) Son?
Didn't think so.
Sorry Mike it is anathema to say that Jesus is of the same class as satan or any “Angel” or any spirit being as far as that goes, for Jesus is the “Monogenes” (only of its kind) Son of God.
WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ July 23 2010,20:02) Jesus is both 'Son of God' and 'Son of Man'
Exactly, Son of God and Son of Man.Son of man = man
Son of God = God
Jesus is both God and man for he is the Word that was with God and was God who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh and became the “Monogenes” (only of its Kind) Son of God.
Sorry JA, there is only “One” Monogenes Son of God!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2010,03:41) Exactly, Son of God and Son of Man. Son of man = man
Son of God = God
You've put your foot in it now.Sons of God = Gods/gods/theos?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2010,11:33) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 24 2010,09:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 24 2010,02:30) Its a strawmans argument since the word “Theos” (God) does not classify identity, but a being that is in a metaphysical class of its own.
Yes WJ,A class that Paul included Satan and others in.
mike
You mean that Jesus was in a “false god” class?WJ
Hello WJ,If you make Jesus to be “God” you have made him to be a false god.
See for yourself the difference:
Son OF God.
God, the Son.Son = male offspring coming from God (cannot be God whom he came from)
Jesus is either son of God (procreation of God) or God but not both.
Jesus said that he was the son of God.
Who do you say that he is? Should we believe YOU or the BIBLE?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2010,11:41) Quote (JustAskin @ July 23 2010,20:02) Jesus is both 'Son of God' and 'Son of Man'
Exactly, Son of God and Son of Man.Son of man = man
Son of God = God
Jesus is both God and man for he is the Word that was with God and was God who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh and became the “Monogenes” (only of its Kind) Son of God.
Sorry JA, there is only “One” Monogenes Son of God!
WJ
Hi WJ,If Jesus is God, how can he be His son? Son of God….
@ davidbfun.
Good points, but I think the answer that Trinitarians can always fall back on is that God is beyond understanding and leave it there.
The problem is that God has revealed certain things about himself that he intends for us to understand, and the Trinity Doctrine flies in the face of that. For example, Paul teaches that it is better to prophecy than to speak in tongues because the mind has understanding in a prophecy. Yet the Trinity Doctrine is so mysterious that it isn't even mentioned in scripture, and even given that, it is claimed to be the foundation of faith according to Catholics and many Protestants too.The Catholic faith is ……. (the Trinity). That is their statement of faith.
Quote (t8 @ July 28 2010,07:17) @ davidbfun. Good points, but I think the answer that Trinitarians can always fall back on is that God is beyond understanding and leave it there.
The problem is that God has revealed certain things about himself that he intends for us to understand, and the Trinity Doctrine flies in the face of that. For example, Paul teaches that it is better to prophecy than to speak in tongues because the mind has understanding in a prophecy. Yet the Trinity Doctrine is so mysterious that it isn't even mentioned in scripture, and even given that, it is claimed to be the foundation of faith according to Catholics and many Protestants too.The Catholic faith is ……. (the Trinity). That is their statement of faith.
Hi t8,I was walking my 5 dogs at 4 am this morning and there was a “town crier” going thru the town saying, “Saint Mary, mother of God……we pray that you intercede for us…”
If she is the mother of God then she must be God (ludicrous).
Only one mediator, man Jesus Christ.The people don't read the BIBLE they only believe the CHURCH and there is no reasoning with them…..same with Trinitarians, I know, I was one. lol
Quote (t8 @ July 26 2010,23:20) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2010,03:41) Exactly, Son of God and Son of Man. Son of man = man
Son of God = God
You've put your foot in it now.Sons of God = Gods/gods/theos?
t8Not at all. For Jesus is the “Monogenes” (only of its kind) Son of God isn't he?
Since Jesus kind is God, then Jesus is God!
Does the term “Monogenes” belong to any other t8?
WJ
Quote (davidbfun @ July 27 2010,07:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2010,11:41) Quote (JustAskin @ July 23 2010,20:02) Jesus is both 'Son of God' and 'Son of Man'
Exactly, Son of God and Son of Man.Son of man = man
Son of God = God
Jesus is both God and man for he is the Word that was with God and was God who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh and became the “Monogenes” (only of its Kind) Son of God.
Sorry JA, there is only “One” Monogenes Son of God!
WJ
Hi WJ,If Jesus is God, how can he be His son? Son of God….
Thats like saying “If your Father is a man (human) then how can you be man (human)?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2010,01:39) Quote (davidbfun @ July 27 2010,07:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2010,11:41) Quote (JustAskin @ July 23 2010,20:02) Jesus is both 'Son of God' and 'Son of Man'
Exactly, Son of God and Son of Man.Son of man = man
Son of God = God
Jesus is both God and man for he is the Word that was with God and was God who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh and became the “Monogenes” (only of its Kind) Son of God.
Sorry JA, there is only “One” Monogenes Son of God!
WJ
Hi WJ,If Jesus is God, how can he be His son? Son of God….
Thats like saying “If your Father is a man (human) then how can you be man (human)?
Keith,They don't get it!
Jack
Quote (davidbfun @ July 27 2010,07:01) Who do you say that he is? Should we believe YOU or the BIBLE?
Isaiah said Jesus would be called “Mighty God”. Isa 9:6Thomas called Jesus “My Lord and my God”. John 20:28
Paul called Jesus his “Great God and Savour”. Titus 2:13
Paul also called Jesus the “Rock” that followed the children of Israel in the wilderness. 1 Cor 10:4
John called Jesus the Word that was with God and was God. John 1:1
Peter called Jesus his God and Savour. 2 Peter 1:1
The Angel of the Lord said that Jesus would be called “God with us”. Matt 1:23
It seems that only the Trinitarians are making the same claim that the Angel was.
Should I believe you or the testimony of the scriptures and those that walked with Jesus.
Again,
Son of man = man
Son of God = God
Who do you say he is?
WJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 27 2010,09:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2010,01:39) Quote (davidbfun @ July 27 2010,07:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2010,11:41) Quote (JustAskin @ July 23 2010,20:02) Jesus is both 'Son of God' and 'Son of Man'
Exactly, Son of God and Son of Man.Son of man = man
Son of God = God
Jesus is both God and man for he is the Word that was with God and was God who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh and became the “Monogenes” (only of its Kind) Son of God.
Sorry JA, there is only “One” Monogenes Son of God!
WJ
Hi WJ,If Jesus is God, how can he be His son? Son of God….
Thats like saying “If your Father is a man (human) then how can you be man (human)?
Keith,They don't get it!
Jack
True.They do not understand “God” is a title that classifies a being in a metaphysical class of his own.
All other “gods” (theos) are not (of his kind).
Jesus is the “Monogenes” (only of its kind) Son of God.
They hate the truth that is before them.
Jesus said they hate the light and will not come to it. He also says he is the light and men will not come to him.
This claim could only mean he is God because if not then Jesus was speaking blashemous words for demanding men come to him and not to God.
WJ
Worshippingjesus said:
Quote Paul also called Jesus the “Rock” that followed the children of Israel in the wilderness. 1 Cor 10:4
Keith,The “Rock” begat Israel when He delivered them out of Egypt.
And the ESV which is based in older manuscripts says that it was Jesus who saved the people out of Egypt
5Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved[a] a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. (Jude 5).
Jack
WJ…………..Mighty God and the (ALMIGHTY GOD) are not the same thing. One is powerful the other is (ALL) powerful. Saying they are the same is an (ASSUMPTION) on you part.
Thomas called Jesus my Lord and My GOD, meaning the same person or being is also an (ASSUMPTION) on you part, You have no proof that he was not simply recognizing the GOD the Father was Present (IN) Jesus His LORD. The (AND) imply s (TWO) not necessarily the same person but can just as easily imply two being. Again another (ASSUMPTION) ON YOUR PART.
Titus 2: 13……….Same as above an (ASSUMPTION) on your part.
1 Cor 10:4 , do you see the word (Jesus) there, What my bible say is (CHRIST) meaning the anointing or Christos, the Spirit of GOD was the Rock that was guiding the Childern of Israel in the Wilderness, not Jesus, in fact the word Jesus is not even in there, Again another (ASSUMPTION) on your part.
John 1:1 again i do not see the word Jesus written there do you, so again you are (ASSUMING) it means Jesus.
2Peter 1:1………Still another (ASSUMPTION) on your part , the word (AND) is used to denote two beings not one and the same person.
Mat 1:23………..Indeed God was with us He was (IN) Jesus but that does (NOT) make Jesus the God that was (IN) Him, now does it?. Another (ASSUMPTION) on your part WJ.
So far all you give is an (ASSUMED) position with (NO) specific back up, just (ASSUMPTIONS) only WJ. NO Proofs. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Gene said;
Quote Thomas called Jesus my Lord and My GOD, meaning the same person or being is also an (ASSUMPTION) on you part, You have no proof that he was not simply recognizing the GOD the Father was Present (IN) Jesus His LORD. The (AND) imply s (TWO) not necessarily the same person but can just as easily imply two being. Again another (ASSUMPTION) ON YOUR PART. Gene,
You are a deceived man. First, the narrative says that Thomas said to HIM (Jesus), “My Lord and My God.” Thomas was addressing JESUS calling Him “My Lord and my God.”
Second, the nominative “God” is being used as a vocative in the EXACT SAME MANNER as the preceding nominative “Lord” and the nominative “King” as in “Hail, King of the Jews.”
John 19:3, “Hail, King of the Jews” (the noun “King” is nominative vocative).
John 20:28: And he (Thomas) said to Him (Jesus), “My Lord and my God” (the nouns “Lord” and “God” are both nominative vocative).
So much for your claim that WJ has no proof. Weep and repent Gene!
the Roo
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