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Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 30 2010,04:30) Mike, Verse 13 says that both the Father and the Lamb receive “honor.” There are different words for honor in the Greek and this one is equivalent to the word “worship.” It means “to value or esteem in the highest degree.” Both the Father and the Lamb are valued and esteemed in the highest degree.
Do word studies before you rant.
Yes Jack,And Rev 21:26 uses the same word.
26The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.
And John 4:44 says,
44(Now Jesus himself had pointed out that a prophet has no honor in his own country.)And Matt 27:6 says,
6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said , It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.So how can that be? The same Greek word is used for the honor of God and the Lamb, the honor of nations, the honor of prophets, and even the PRICE of blood? That doesn't seem like it matches the definition you gave……
Blood money is “esteemed in the highest degree”? Hmmmm…….Let's see what OBST says the definition of the word is.Time 8:169,1181
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
tee-may' Noun FeminineDefinition
a valuing by which the price is fixed
of the price itself
of the price paid or received for a person or thing bought or sold
honour which belongs or is shown to one
of the honour which one has by reason of rank and state of office which he holds
deference, reverenceSo, while I agree with those in Rev who hold both Jesus AND his God Jehovah in high esteem, I think your word falls way short of saying “Jesus is God”, don't you?
Thanks for reminding me to do my word studies before I rant. Maybe you should practice what you preach. 
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 30 2010,06:26) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 30 2010,06:14) Hi KJ,
As soon as you realise bowing down to and singing to is not for us true worship we can move on.
If bowing down to is not true worship then what is it? The commandment did not say exactly “do not worship them.” It said, “do not bow down to them nor serve them.”We are commanded to bow down to and serve Jesus. Right?
KJ
Hi Jack,2 Sam 1:1-2,
1 After the death of Saul, David returned from defeating the Amalekites and stayed in Ziklag two days. 2 On the third day a man arrived from Saul's camp, with his clothes torn and with dust on his head. When he came to David, he fell to the ground to pay him honor.
Did this man think David was Jehovah?
Daniel 2:46-47
46 Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell prostrate before Daniel and paid him honor and ordered that an offering and incense be presented to him. 47 The king said to Daniel, “Surely your God is the God of gods and the Lord of kings and a revealer of mysteries, for you were able to reveal this mystery.”Did Nebuchadnezzar think Daniel was Jehovah? Did he think Daniel was one of his gods?
There is a difference between “doing obeisance” as a way of showing reverence and “worshipping”.
A formerly blind man that Jesus healed bowed down to him RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE PHARISEES WHO WERE HOPING JESUS WOULD SLIP UP SO THEY COULD KILL HIM. Don't you think if that was taken as “God worship”, it would have given those Pharisees all the ammo they needed? You see, there is a difference – do you agree?
mike
Mike,
This is all amnesia fodder,They have been through all this before.
It seems that it is true that the TTT, three T's, the 'Desperarians', are only here to keep the forum going by repeating nonesense every few weeks no matter how much they have been 'found out' many, many times over.
While they can't be ignored, the best strategy would be not to challenge them in a dispute manner but in a 'learning manner'
That is, to strengthen your own belief by 'testing it' and 'reaffirming it', and 'enhancing it' against their claims.
This, then, is 'Building Scriptural Muscle'
Quote (JustAskin @ July 02 2010,17:20) Mike,
This is all amnesia fodder,They have been through all this before.
It seems that it is true that the TTT, three T's, the 'Desperarians', are only here to keep the forum going by repeating nonesense every few weeks no matter how much they have been 'found out' many, many times over.
While they can't be ignored, the best strategy would be not to challenge them in a dispute manner but in a 'learning manner'
That is, to strengthen your own belief by 'testing it' and 'reaffirming it', and 'enhancing it' against their claims.
This, then, is 'Building Scriptural Muscle'
JA……….. Amen, Lots of truth there brother. It maybe the God wants us to exercise our spiritual understanding because it may be helpful in the future. ” I saw the Lord descending from mount Paran with ten thousands of his saints , to (convience) all the ungodly , of their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed.peace and love to you and yours……………gene
If Jesus is in the water being baptised, and the Holy Spirit descends upon Him, and His Father commends Him from the clouds, then I see three.
Unlike some who believe in the three, I do not believe they are coequal. There is no Scripture to support that, but on the contrary Scripture does say that the Father does the Father's bidding, and the Holy Spirit will speak of what He hears.
Quote (Oxy @ July 02 2010,20:42) If Jesus is in the water being baptised, and the Holy Spirit descends upon Him, and His Father commends Him from the clouds, then I see three. Unlike some who believe in the three, I do not believe they are coequal. There is no Scripture to support that, but on the contrary Scripture does say that the Father does the Father's bidding, and the Holy Spirit will speak of what He hears.
Hi OxySo are they three Gods or ONE God?
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 03 2010,18:07) Quote (Oxy @ July 02 2010,20:42) If Jesus is in the water being baptised, and the Holy Spirit descends upon Him, and His Father commends Him from the clouds, then I see three. Unlike some who believe in the three, I do not believe they are coequal. There is no Scripture to support that, but on the contrary Scripture does say that the Father does the Father's bidding, and the Holy Spirit will speak of what He hears.
Hi OxySo are they three Gods or ONE God?
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ, haven't seen you for a while. Same old arguments eh? lolScripture clearly states that our God is one. Scripture also clearly states that there is three. How can that be? The answer is really quite simple, and to best answer it, consider the following questions. A simple yes or no will suffice.
Do you have a body?
Do you have a soul?
Do you have a spirit?If you answered yes to all three, then you are one person consisting of three parts… in the likeness of God.
Oxy,
Why do you choose only three.
What about ….
A Heart…
A Mind…
A Will…So that makes six.
So we all have six…well some of us do, anyway…
But only God has the seventh, Power and Authority.
Don't worry, He also gives it by measure to all others. So, quite rightly, within our own order, and by measure, we, too, are 'gods'. But remember, only by measure!
Jesus Christ is given the 'Power and Authority without Measure'.
So, is he then 'God'?No,… why?
Because he is only 'loaned' that P&A. He does not 'OWN' it, he just 'Possesses' it for a period of time.
God cannot change.
God cannot be 'God for a day'
God is 'One'. There can only be 'One'.“The Father's” Son cannot become “The Father”, even when that Son has his own Sons.
That Son 'can' become 'A Father' to his own Sons, but 'The Father', his Father, is always 'The Father'.
Quote (JustAskin @ July 04 2010,00:10) Oxy, Why do you choose only three.
What about ….
A Heart…
A Mind…
A Will…So that makes six.
So we all have six…well some of us do, anyway…
But only God has the seventh, Power and Authority.
Don't worry, He also gives it by measure to all others. So, quite rightly, within our own order, and by measure, we, too, are 'gods'. But remember, only by measure!
Jesus Christ is given the 'Power and Authority without Measure'.
So, is he then 'God'?No,… why?
Because he is only 'loaned' that P&A. He does not 'OWN' it, he just 'Possesses' it for a period of time.
God cannot change.
God cannot be 'God for a day'
God is 'One'. There can only be 'One'.“The Father's” Son cannot become “The Father”, even when that Son has his own Sons.
That Son 'can' become 'A Father' to his own Sons, but 'The Father', his Father, is always 'The Father'.
Do you know so little my friend? The heart, the will and the mind are of the soul.Quote (Oxy @ July 03 2010,12:42) If Jesus is in the water being baptised, and the Holy Spirit descends upon Him, and His Father commends Him from the clouds, then I see three. Unlike some who believe in the three, I do not believe they are coequal. There is no Scripture to support that, but on the contrary Scripture does say that the Father does the Father's bidding, and the Holy Spirit will speak of what He hears.
Hi Oxy,I've asked before, but how does there being three in any way imply they are all God?
mike
Quote (JustAskin @ July 04 2010,03:41) Oxy, You are not of God.
If you were, you would understand what is written.
You are a selfseeker.
I am not a self seeker, I've already found myself lol.I saw what you wrote, but you wandered off the topic my friend. Perhaps a new topic should be made for that?
This topic is about the trinity, not the seven aspects of God.
Oxy………..I am not sure you really believe in the trinity right? IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 04 2010,15:31) Oxy………..I am not sure you really believe in the trinity right? IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
I believe the Bible.The Bible tells me that at the birth of Christ God became a Father.
The Bible tells me that the Word of God was with God and was God, and He was made flesh and called Jesus.
The Bible tells me that the Holy Spirit was sent by God to tell us the things He hears, and to be a comforter etc.
When Jesus was baptised the Holy Spirit came upon Him and the Son was commended by the Father. All three were obviously involved there.
This has worked for me. God certainly hasn't told me differently, in fact when I asked Him about it, He described it to me the same way I have described it to you in this forum, but nobody seems to want to know, they prefer to stick with their own beliefs, and that's fine by me.
We are made in the likeness of God. We are a three part being consisting of body, soul and spirit. God is One, consisting of three, just like us.
Quote (Oxy @ July 04 2010,16:46) I believe the Bible. The Bible tells me that at the birth of Christ God became a Father.
The Bible tells me that the Word of God was with God and was God, and He was made flesh and called Jesus.
The Bible tells me that the Holy Spirit was sent by God to tell us the things He hears, and to be a comforter etc.
When Jesus was baptised the Holy Spirit came upon Him and the Son was commended by the Father. All three were obviously involved there.
This has worked for me. God certainly hasn't told me differently, in fact when I asked Him about it, He described it to me the same way I have described it to you in this forum, but nobody seems to want to know, they prefer to stick with their own beliefs, and that's fine by me.
We are made in the likeness of God. We are a three part being consisting of body, soul and spirit. God is One, consisting of three, just like us.
Hi Oxy,You said:
Quote but nobody seems to want to know, they prefer to stick with their own beliefs, That's what I think about you. You keep pushing this “there were three” stand, and I keep asking, “So what? How does there being three mean they are all God?”
You keep pushing John 1:1, but I've showed you the Greek in which John clearly distinguishes one as THE God, and one as god.
I've showed you that being at someone's right hand isn't a place of equality or “sameness”.
I've showed you that Jesus still calls the One he said was “our God and his God” “my God”.
Please understand this, for it means eternal life. Pray about it.
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, [SOMEOME OTHER THAN THE ONLY TRUE GOD] whom you have sent.peace and love,
mikeQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 05 2010,07:50) Hi OXY,
All three?
The Spirit of God is never separate from God
Hi Nick,Help me out on this one, please. If God is able to send His Holy Spirit out and about, then I can picture it as an entity separate from God. If it is not, which I also sometimes think, then when God sends His Spirit, couldn't it be said that God Himself came?
confused on the spirits always,
mikeHi MB,
The Spirit is as the finger of God[lk11/mt12]God is no more separate from His “Finger” than you are.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 05 2010,14:34) Hi MB,
The Spirit is as the finger of God[lk11/mt12]God is no more separate from His “Finger” than you are.
Hi Nick,Maybe like God is the eye of a hurricane and we are many miles from the eye but can still feel the wind caused by the hurricane?
IMO, it would be weird to say, “I will SEND my hands to give you a massage” since my hands are a part of me.
mike
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