- This topic has 18,301 replies, 269 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 5 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 08 2010,17:21) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 09 2010,06:19) Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 09 2010,06:07) TT, You are beyond hope.
Since God contains everything how can something within him be greater than or even equal to him.
Can a part (amongst many parts) be equal to the whole?
JA,You minimize the love of Jesus just like all other anti-trinitarians here. He EXPLICITLY said, “Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his own life for another.”
If Jesus was not God in the flesh , then His love surpassed the love of God. God only “so loved” while Christ loved in the highest sense possible.
If you confess the truth that Christ was God in the flesh, then your conundrum disappears and the love of God becomes equal to the love of Christ.
thinker
Hi TT,Your using faulty logic again, you change this verse to include God, but this verse is about the love of Jesus.
John 15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
God's love is Greater, because he gave “His Son's” life. (John 3:16)
You use lot's of faulty logic?
EDI don't think his logic is so faulty because if you for instance say that the Holy Spirit is the Father (Though he is not) and Jesus had the Holy Spirit “without measure” meaning to you he had the Father without measure, and Jesus said he always does those things that please the Father then that would mean that Jesus Love is equal, Right?
Or is it Jesus had no love but it is only the Father that worked through him?
Jesus is the “Exact representation” of the Fathers being! Heb 1:3
Meaning all that the Father is in nature Jesus is!
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 09 2010,07:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2010,15:34) Hi WJ,
Why not cling to truth?
My word is truthj[Jn17]There is no strange trinity god in scripture so you have no base to build on.
NHJesus also said he is the Truth! HMMM! Another one of those statements that no other could make but he who is the Word that was with God and was/is God!
Blessings WJ
W.J. If you take God out of it's context then you have a problem, because the Father Jehovah God is above all in
Ephesians 4:6
1 Corinth. 8″4 “And that there is none other God but one.” He is number one, above all.
Deut. 6:4 “Hear O Israel, the LORD our God is one LORD. All capital letters.
Deut. 4:35 :Unto thee it was shewed that thou mightiest know that the LORD He is God, there is none beside Him.” Again all capital letters.
My Husband has studied Ancient History and we know that the trinity doctrine is a man made doctrine and not of God. It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian who in the second century came up with it. It is said that the trinity doctrine is his best achievement he made to Christianity. The whole world is deceived and God only calls a few right now to understand the truth. Mainstream Christianity does believe in that doctrine. Also God is a title. Used for many, even Satan is called the God of this world. He is holding many captive.
Also the Spirit is not a third person of the trinity. It is the Fathers Spirit.
Ephesians 4 also tells us that there is only one Holy Spirit. At Baptism we receive God's Holy Spirit and now can understand the things of God. If the Holy Spirit would be a person then He would be the Father of Jesus. That is not so because it is an essence of Jehovah God. Like patience, wisdom etc.
Since God is a title I say when Jesus is named by you and T.T. I say you are right, because Hebrew 1:8-9 and John 1:1 it is the Word God who became Jesus in verse 14. Even by Jesus own words He says in
John 14:28 … for my Father is greater then I.
Jesus in several instances tells us that He came to do the will of His Father. Verse 31 read it…..
Peace and Love IreneWJ,
Nothing that is part of something else can be equal to the thing that it is part of.
God's love is on a greater than that of the Son because it is 'because' of the Spirit of God working in the Son that allows the Son to completely do what he does: 'For the Son can do nothingexcept what he sees then father doing'!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 09 2010,09:47) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 08 2010,17:21) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 09 2010,06:19) Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 09 2010,06:07) TT, You are beyond hope.
Since God contains everything how can something within him be greater than or even equal to him.
Can a part (amongst many parts) be equal to the whole?
JA,You minimize the love of Jesus just like all other anti-trinitarians here. He EXPLICITLY said, “Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his own life for another.”
If Jesus was not God in the flesh , then His love surpassed the love of God. God only “so loved” while Christ loved in the highest sense possible.
If you confess the truth that Christ was God in the flesh, then your conundrum disappears and the love of God becomes equal to the love of Christ.
thinker
Hi TT,Your using faulty logic again, you change this verse to include God, but this verse is about the love of Jesus.
John 15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
God's love is Greater, because he gave “His Son's” life. (John 3:16)
You use lot's of faulty logic?
EDI don't think his logic is so faulty because if you for instance say that the Holy Spirit is the Father (Though he is not) and Jesus had the Holy Spirit “without measure” meaning to you he had the Father without measure, and Jesus said he always does those things that please the Father then that would mean that Jesus Love is equal, Right?
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,Maybe not equal to, but at least very close to equal to.
John 14:28: Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away,
and come again unto you(occurring at Pentecost). If ye loved me,
ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.That is why we can say with confidence “Jesus is Lord”=151
Because he is his Father's boy:…”The LORD JEHOVAH”=151 (AKJV Isaiah 12:2 / Isaiah 26:4)“YHVH GOD is ONE”=151
John 17:21: That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee,
that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Irene,
Scripture does not state we sreceive the Holy Spirit at Baptism.
Read Lk 11 and seek the blessing of your Father.Yes, He is our God.(scriptual)! He is who we are waiting on to return, and who we will spend eternity with. He is the Lord God and King of Isreal.
katjo
katjo
Quote (katjo @ Feb. 09 2010,13:02) Yes, He is our God.(scriptual)! He is who we are waiting on to return, and who we will spend eternity with. He is the Lord God and King of Isreal. katjo
katjo
So who is his Father?Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 09 2010,14:31) Quote (katjo @ Feb. 09 2010,13:02) Yes, He is our God.(scriptual)! He is who we are waiting on to return, and who we will spend eternity with. He is the Lord God and King of Isreal. katjo
katjo
So who is his Father?Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 08 2010,15:42) so in what way is God a FATHER to anyone Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 28 2010,11:12) once again you are being a hypocrite Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 09 2010,15:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 09 2010,14:31) Quote (katjo @ Feb. 09 2010,13:02) Yes, He is our God.(scriptual)! He is who we are waiting on to return, and who we will spend eternity with. He is the Lord God and King of Isreal. katjo
katjo
So who is his Father?Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 08 2010,15:42) so in what way is God a FATHER to anyone Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 28 2010,11:12) once again you are being a hypocrite
You don't understand do you? It's okay you don't have to know everything all at once, I didn't so neither do youED J said:
Quote Your using faulty logic again, you change this verse to include God, but this verse is about the love of Jesus.
John 15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
God's love is Greater, because he gave “His Son's” life. (John 3:16)
You use lot's of faulty logic?
ED J,First, I was expecting that someone would use the argument from the word “man.” But Jesus did not say that “no man” has a greater love. He said that “none” has a greater love. The word “man” is NOT in the Greek text.
It literally reads thus:
“Greater love has none than this, that he lay down His life for his friends.””
Second, before making this statement Jesus claimed that He Himself is the Good Shepherd who gives His life for the sheep (John 10).
Uh…Israel had only one Shepherd and that was God.
So your conclusion that my logic is faulty is based in erroneous translation. The word “man” is not in the text. Jesus said that “none” has a greater love. And it is the Good Shepherd (God) Himself who laid down His life for the sheep.
Third, and this is what destroys you. Love is from God. So even if Jesus said that “no man” has a greater love the question may be asked, “How did that man acquire such love? Answer: He acquired such love from God. A second question comes from this: Can God give a man a love that God Himself cannot do?
You anti-trinitarians are not seasoned thinkers. I ask again: Can God give such love that He Himself cannot do?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 10 2010,20:43) ED J, 1) Third, and this is what destroys you. Love is from God.
2) So even if Jesus said that “no man” has a greater love the question may be asked, “How did that man acquire such love? Answer: He acquired such love from God.
3) A second question comes from this: Can God give a man a love that God Himself cannot do?
4) You anti-trinitarians are not seasoned thinkers.
5) I ask again: Can God give a love that He Himself cannot do?
thinker
Hi Thinker,1) Love does NOT destroy me!
2) Correct.
3) God's Love MUST be greater!
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.4) Who said I was anti-trinitarian?
5) I answered that question in Point #3.
ED J said:
Quote Love does NOT destroy me!
I said that love is from God and the necessary inference destroys you.A man that lays down his life in love does so because that love came from God. Can God give such love which He Himself cannot do? Why don't you just answer the question?
ED J:
Quote God's Love MUST be greater!
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.The greatest love according to ED J: “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down the life of his son for his friends.”
The greatest love according to Jesus: “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's own life for his friends.”
The only way God's love could match the love of Jesus is if Jesus was God in the flesh.
Again, can God give love to another that God Himself cannot do?
thinker
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 08 2010,18:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 09 2010,09:47) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 08 2010,17:21) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 09 2010,06:19) Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 09 2010,06:07) TT, You are beyond hope.
Since God contains everything how can something within him be greater than or even equal to him.
Can a part (amongst many parts) be equal to the whole?
JA,You minimize the love of Jesus just like all other anti-trinitarians here. He EXPLICITLY said, “Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his own life for another.”
If Jesus was not God in the flesh , then His love surpassed the love of God. God only “so loved” while Christ loved in the highest sense possible.
If you confess the truth that Christ was God in the flesh, then your conundrum disappears and the love of God becomes equal to the love of Christ.
thinker
Hi TT,Your using faulty logic again, you change this verse to include God, but this verse is about the love of Jesus.
John 15:13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
God's love is Greater, because he gave “His Son's” life. (John 3:16)
You use lot's of faulty logic?
EDI don't think his logic is so faulty because if you for instance say that the Holy Spirit is the Father (Though he is not) and Jesus had the Holy Spirit “without measure” meaning to you he had the Father without measure, and Jesus said he always does those things that please the Father then that would mean that Jesus Love is equal, Right?
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,Maybe not equal to, but at least very close to equal to.
John 14:28: Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away,
and come again unto you(occurring at Pentecost). If ye loved me,
ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.That is why we can say with confidence “Jesus is Lord”=151
Because he is his Father's boy:…”The LORD JEHOVAH”=151 (AKJV Isaiah 12:2 / Isaiah 26:4)“YHVH GOD is ONE”=151
John 17:21: That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee,
that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 08 2010,18:40) Hi WJ, Maybe not equal to, but at least very close to equal to.
So what you are saying is that Jesus had the Father in him without measure yet he did not fully submit to the Father and let the Father Love through him with an equal love?Is that what you mean?
Blessings WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2010,09:58) Hi WJ,
Indeed Jesus perfectly showed God in nature and power.
God was in him
But God Himself could not love the way Jesus did. The greatest love is to lay down one's own life for another which you say God cannot do. Ergo, Jesus did not show the love of God “perfectly.” The love of Jesus SURPASSED God's love.thinker
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 08 2010,18:25) WJ, Nothing that is part of something else can be equal to the thing that it is part of.
God's love is on a greater than that of the Son because it is 'because' of the Spirit of God working in the Son that allows the Son to completely do what he does: 'For the Son can do nothingexcept what he sees then father doing'!
JAJesus is not in the flesh any longer.
He has all things and all authority and power and has not yet subjected himself to the Father. 1 Cor 15
Blessings WJ
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 10 2010,11:20) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2010,09:58) Hi WJ,
Indeed Jesus perfectly showed God in nature and power.
God was in him
But God Himself could not love the way Jesus did. The greatest love is to lay down one's own life for another which you say God cannot do. Ergo, Jesus did not show the love of God “perfectly.” The love of Jesus SURPASSED God's love.thinker
JackIt is amazing how they now “REDUCE” the Love of Jesus to less than the Fathers Love when he had the Spirit without measure and he was the one who “Willingly” gave his own life for us.
It never ceases the excuses for not giving the Son the same honour as the Father!
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 11 2010,03:31) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 10 2010,11:20) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2010,09:58) Hi WJ,
Indeed Jesus perfectly showed God in nature and power.
God was in him
But God Himself could not love the way Jesus did. The greatest love is to lay down one's own life for another which you say God cannot do. Ergo, Jesus did not show the love of God “perfectly.” The love of Jesus SURPASSED God's love.thinker
JackIt is amazing how they now “REDUCE” the Love of Jesus to less than the Fathers Love when he had the Spirit without measure and he was the one who “Willingly” gave his own life for us.
It never ceases the excuses for not giving the Son the same honour as the Father!
Blessings WJ
Keith,ED J actually thinks that God's giving His Son is a greater love than the Son's laying down His own life.
The greatest love according to ED J: “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down the life of his son for his friends.”
The greatest love according to Jesus: “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down his own life for his friends.”
If Jesus was not God in the flesh then His love CLEARLY surpassed the love of God.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 11 2010,03:31) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 10 2010,11:20) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2010,09:58) Hi WJ,
Indeed Jesus perfectly showed God in nature and power.
God was in him
But God Himself could not love the way Jesus did. The greatest love is to lay down one's own life for another which you say God cannot do. Ergo, Jesus did not show the love of God “perfectly.” The love of Jesus SURPASSED God's love.thinker
JackIt is amazing how they now “REDUCE” the Love of Jesus to less than the Fathers Love when he had the Spirit without measure and he was the one who “Willingly” gave his own life for us.
It never ceases the excuses for not giving the Son the same honour as the Father!
Blessings WJ
WJ,They don't get it. Jesus said that the Good Shepherd gives His life for the sheep. Israel had only one Shepherd and that was God. Jesus was God in the flesh and He gave His life for us His sheep.
thinker
B.D. THINK ABOUT THIS; READ ALL ! “Who is Jesus Christ?”(GOTQUESTIONS.ORG)
John 1:1 says “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says “the Word became flesh.” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh. Thomas the disciple declared to Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. The apostle Paul describes Him as, “…our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13). The apostle Peter says the same, “…our God and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Peter 1:1). God the Father is witness of Jesus’ full identity as well, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” Old Testament prophecies of Christ announce His deity, “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6).
Why is the question over Jesus’ true identity so important? Why does it matter whether or not Jesus is God? The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only God could pay such an infinite penalty (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus had to be God so that He could pay our debt. Jesus had to be man so He could die. Salvation is available only through faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus’ deity is why He is the only way of salvation. Jesus’ deity is why He proclaimed, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).
KATJO
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
