The Trinity Doctrine

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
The Spirit is of God in Christ.
Fellowship with God and His Christ is in that Spirit.

So how does this make God three and not one?

[NickHassan]

hi WJ,
Jesus went up the mountain with Peter, James and John.
THREE
Have we found another trinity by your facile logic?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2010,15:37)

hi WJ, Jesus went up the mountain with Peter, James and John. THREE Have we found another trinity by your facile logic?

I am “the good shepherd“, and know “my sheep“, and am known of mine. John 10:14

“My sheep” hear my voice, and I know them, and “they follow me“: John 10:27

WJ

[NickHassan]

hi WJ,
Certainly many claim him as Lord because of various reasons but servanthood is shown by obedience.
It is those he knows that are his servants.

Abide in scripture

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2010,16:08)

hi WJ, Certainly many claim him as Lord because of various reasons but servanthood is shown by obedience. It is those he knows that are his servants. Abide in scripture

Yes, and true obedience is only known by the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit!

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Why do you call me LORD LORD and not do as I say?
A wise builder digs deep and lays his foundation on rock and that rock is my teachings.

[KangarooJack]

Nick said:

Quote

Of course lying to the Spirit is lying to God as the Spirit is as the finger of God.[Lk11/Mt12]

Nick,

Lame!

thinker

[KangarooJack]

JustAskin said:

Quote

TT, I don't think Non-(or Anti-)Trinitarians think that the Holy Spirit is NOT God. I think we say that the Holy Spirit is the HOLY SPIRIT of God (The Father):

JA,

First you said that trinitarians would be “ashamed” of me for saying that Jesus is Jehovah. This showed that you do not know trinitarianism. Now you say that anti-trinitarians do not deny that the Holy Spirit is God. You don't know anti-trinitarianism either.

The Spirit of God is the Spirit of both the Father and the Son:

“But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.” Romans 8:9

Christ is explicitly called God in the verse above.

JA:

Quote

TT, you said “JA is engaging in faulty logic and so are you. You argue from the silence of one given passage and ignore what is expressly declared in other passages.” Funny, isn't that what we say about you…?

Show where WJ and I argue from silence.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 14 2010,06:22)

I do see some unity between what both of US are saying – the dis-unity will continue everlasting (Certainly with WJ – I have said before and I do not hide from saying it) TT, I say to you that you have the spirit to change and please do not snap if I say “Pray to God through jesus” for thus he said to do: Noone comes unto the Father but by me. Jesus may be our reigning heavenly and spiritual King putting his enemy under his footstool but the Father is still Almighty God and to him be Honor, praise and Worship. To Jesus be Honor, Praise, and Wealth [but not Worship] Remember, Worship was what Satan/Lucifer sought and why he fell !!! I am going to study Revelations and come back with some postings.

What makes you think I have the “spirit of change?” I ain't going to change. Ask Gene.

Jesus receives EQUAL worship with the (Rev. 5:13) Father.

The apostle John wrote that his hearers would believe in AND pray to the Son of God:

13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

 
14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him. 1 John 5:13-15

The apostle said that we must believe and have confidence in the name of the Son of God. He said that we ought to pray TO HIM with confidence expecting that HE will give us what we ask if it is in accordance with HIS WILL.

This is how we come to the Father “through” Christ.

thinker

[uoflfan]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2010,09:35)

Hi TT, Many are called gods but there is only one true God? Or do you have two gods? How does your polytheism fit with scripture?

Nick
They do not want to see what is right in front of them.Jesus is our example above anything else we strive to be like Him so do what He does, He worships the Father so do I, He says the Father is greater than Him and I believe that, He says the Father is the only true God I believe that. He says I and the Father are 1, I also believe that.
My point is our goal should be to be like Jesus so that's what i strive to do the best of my ability.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (uoflfan @ Jan. 14 2010,09:42)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 14 2010,05:24) Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 13 2010,12:54) WJ, There are too many points to come back to you on – Did someone say your were a preacher (please excuse me if I got that wrong). You said “For Jesus dwells in unapproachable light!” This is so amazingly lax reading of 1 Timothy 6:13-16: Quote  13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good      confession before Pontius Pilate,  14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,  15 which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and      Lord of lords,  16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To      Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen. It is quite clear that “He” and “Him” are refeing to God (the Father). Jesus Christ is mention directly and explicitly so there should be no confusion as to whom the references refer. Do not confuse the reference to “Lord of lords” and “King of kings” as this is dealt with later on in Revelation – something that I have just come to understand. Wrong again. Contextually it is the Lord Jesus and his appearing that is mentioned in verse 14 and then immediately proceeded by the word “He”, and then it is confirmed who the King of Kings and Lord of Lords is. It is a given that the Father has immortality. So Paul’s point here is that Jesus is the Only One with Immortality unless you say that he does not have Immortality. There is nothing secret about who the Lord of Lords and King of Kings is! (Rev 17:14 and 19:16). The problem that you have is Jesus has the Divine title Lord of Lords and King of Kings. WJ Wrong the second He must be talking about The Father because it is describing who is bringing it about at the proper time. Why are so many unwilling to see what is in front of them. And WJ you have still not explained 1Cor 15.

U,

Is is you who is wrong! Jesus is called the “King of kings and Lord of lords (Rev. 19:16). It unmistakeably says that it is HIS name.

The passage in Timothy says He is the “ONLY Sovereign, the King of king and Lord of lords.” If this is the Father then Christ's name cannot also be King of kings and Lord of lords.

The passage in Timothy is CLEARLY speaking about Jesus Christ:

14to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. ESV

Verse 14 CLEARLY says that Jesus Christ is our Lord and that at the proper time “HE” will display who He is.

This with Revelation 19:16 is quite conclusive.

Repent!

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (uoflfan @ Jan. 13 2010,17:42)

Wrong the second He must be talking about The Father because it is describing who is bringing it about at the proper time.

Who is bringing it about? Who is coming again? Who is ruling in the Kingdom as King of Kings and Lord of Lords? His name is Jesus! But there you go again, like all the rest you seek to make Jesus the servant Messiah! Wake up and take your Arian glasses off, Jesus is no longer in the flesh but is sitting in the throne of God, ruling as God, all authority and power being subject to him!

Quote (uoflfan @ Jan. 13 2010,17:42)

Why are so many unwilling to see what is in front of them. And WJ you have still not explained 1Cor 15.

That’s  funny I am saying the same…

Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, “the King of kings, and Lord of lords”; 1 Tim 6:15

And then the Apostle John confirms who he is when he writes…

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for “he is Lord of lords, and King of kings”: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Rev 17:14

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS”. Rev 19:16

It can’t be any clearer, it is right before your eyes! Who shall make war and overcome them?

WJ

[uoflfan]

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 14 2010,10:03)

Quote (uoflfan @ Jan. 14 2010,09:42) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 14 2010,05:24) Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 13 2010,12:54) WJ, There are too many points to come back to you on – Did someone say your were a preacher (please excuse me if I got that wrong). You said “For Jesus dwells in unapproachable light!” This is so amazingly lax reading of 1 Timothy 6:13-16: Quote  13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good      confession before Pontius Pilate,  14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,  15 which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and      Lord of lords,  16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To      Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen. It is quite clear that “He” and “Him” are refeing to God (the Father). Jesus Christ is mention directly and explicitly so there should be no confusion as to whom the references refer. Do not confuse the reference to “Lord of lords” and “King of kings” as this is dealt with later on in Revelation – something that I have just come to understand. Wrong again. Contextually it is the Lord Jesus and his appearing that is mentioned in verse 14 and then immediately proceeded by the word “He”, and then it is confirmed who the King of Kings and Lord of Lords is. It is a given that the Father has immortality. So Paul’s point here is that Jesus is the Only One with Immortality unless you say that he does not have Immortality. There is nothing secret about who the Lord of Lords and King of Kings is! (Rev 17:14 and 19:16). The problem that you have is Jesus has the Divine title Lord of Lords and King of Kings. WJ Wrong the second He must be talking about The Father because it is describing who is bringing it about at the proper time. Why are so many unwilling to see what is in front of them. And WJ you have still not explained 1Cor 15. U, Is is you who is wrong! Jesus is called the “King of kings and Lord of lords (Rev. 19:16). It unmistakeably says that it is HIS name. The passage in Timothy says He is the “ONLY Sovereign, the King of king and Lord of lords.” If this is the Father then Christ's name cannot also be King of kings and Lord of lords. The passage in Timothy is CLEARLY speaking about Jesus Christ: 14to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. ESV Verse 14 CLEARLY says that Jesus Christ is our Lord and that at the proper time “HE” will display who He is. This with Revelation 19:16 is quite conclusive. Repent! thinker

Being that Jesus can be called all the names that the Father can be called correct? Which means the Father is called those names too.
But if you look at the versed altogether is has to be talking about the Father because Jesus is not immortal,Jesus does not dwell in the unapproachable light, and He is not the one who no man has ever seen or can see.
There is comma after Lord of lords which means it is talking about the same person it was talking about before in verse 15
Do you believe this verse says the same thing?
17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (uoflfan @ Jan. 14 2010,09:49)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2010,09:35) Hi TT, Many are called gods but there is only one true God? Or do you have two gods? How does your polytheism fit with scripture? Nick They do not want to see what is right in front of them.Jesus is our example above anything else we strive to be like Him so do what He does, He worships the Father so do I, He says the Father is greater than Him and I believe that, He says the Father is the only true God I believe that. He says I and the Father are 1, I also believe that. My point is our goal should be to be like Jesus so that's what i strive to do the best of my ability.

U,

It is you who has closed your eyes. Verse 14 says that Jesus Christ is our Lord and that in His proper time HE will display that HE is the ONLY King of kings and Lord of lords. The Father is not the subject.

Revelation 19:16 CLEARLY says that the title “King of kings and Lord of lords” is Jesus' name.

He Himself (Jesus) treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

     KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Note that  “God” and “King of kings” is grammatically distinguished here. The King of kings and Lord of lords treads the winepress of the wrath of God Almighty. It is CLEARLY Jesus who is the King of kings and Lord of lords and who is treading the winepress of the wrath of God almighty. It is CLEARLY Jesus in 1 Timothy 6:1 who is called our “Lord” and who will at the proper time reveal that He is the ONLY Sovereign, King of kings and Lord of lords.

You say that we close our eyes to what is in front of us when it is YOU who changes what scripture PLAINLY says.

Either prove your assertions or be quiet!

thinker

[uoflfan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 14 2010,10:06)

Quote (uoflfan @ Jan. 13 2010,17:42) Wrong the second He must be talking about The Father because it is describing who is bringing it about at the proper time. Who is bringing it about? Who is coming again? Who is ruling in the Kingdom as King of Kings and Lord of Lords? His name is Jesus! But there you go again, like all the rest you seek to make Jesus the servant Messiah! Wake up and take your Arian glasses off, Jesus is no longer in the flesh but is sitting in the throne of God, ruling as God, all authority and power being subject to him! Quote (uoflfan @ Jan. 13 2010,17:42) Why are so many unwilling to see what is in front of them. And WJ you have still not explained 1Cor 15. That’s  funny I am saying the same… Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, “the King of kings, and Lord of lords”; 1 Tim 6:15 And then the Apostle John confirms who he is when he writes… These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for “he is Lord of lords, and King of kings”: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Rev 17:14 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS”. Rev 19:16 It can’t be any clearer, it is right before your eyes! Who shall make war and overcome them? WJ

WJ
Not even the Son knows when He's coming back only the Father knows that, so he is the one that will bring it about at the proper time.

[uoflfan]

WJ
Jesus is NOT on the throne of God he is on the throne of David.And he is at THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, NOT ON THE THRONE OF GOD!

[uoflfan]

Funny how it says that God subjected everything to Him and He Will take it back to be all in all and it also says that the Father is not subject to the one He subjected everything to.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (uoflfan @ Jan. 13 2010,17:42)

[And WJ you have still not explained 1Cor 15.

Then the end will come, “WHEN HE (JESUS) HANDS OVER THE KINGDOM TO GOD THE FATHER AFTER HE (Jesus) HAS DESTROYED ALL DOMINION, AUTHORITY AND POWER. For he (Jesus) must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. And the last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he “has put everything under his feet.”* Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. “When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all”. 1 Cor 15:24-28

First of all these scriptures say that ‘Jesus has the Kingdom” and in the end will give it to the Father. Jesus has all authority and power and is sitting in the throne of God ruling as God. Jesus is no longer servant, but “King of Kings and Lord of Lords” of the universe, a title that belongs to God alone!

Second these scriptures say that Jesus must reign until “HE” Jesus has put all enemies under his feet including death! Then Paul clarifies that the Father is not included in the “everything” that is put under Jesus feet and further clarifies that the Father gave him the power over all things! If the Father gave him all things then he has all things.

Then Paul says…

When he has done this, “THEN THE SON HIMSELF WILL BE MADE SUBJECT TO HIM” who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

The fact that Jesus has all authority and power and everything that the Father has and that he is not yet subject to the Father should tell you something.

Can a finite being have infinite Glory, Power, Authority, Love, Wisdom etc?

Can a finite being be Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient?

Yet Jesus has all that the Father has!

God is infinite, and all the fullness of Deity resides in him as it resides in the Father and the Holy Spirit meaning Jesus is infinite like the Father and the Holy Spirit.

The Arians are blind to how big this Jesus really is!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (uoflfan @ Jan. 13 2010,18:16)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 14 2010,10:06) Quote (uoflfan @ Jan. 13 2010,17:42) Wrong the second He must be talking about The Father because it is describing who is bringing it about at the proper time. Who is bringing it about? Who is coming again? Who is ruling in the Kingdom as King of Kings and Lord of Lords? His name is Jesus! But there you go again, like all the rest you seek to make Jesus the servant Messiah! Wake up and take your Arian glasses off, Jesus is no longer in the flesh but is sitting in the throne of God, ruling as God, all authority and power being subject to him! Quote (uoflfan @ Jan. 13 2010,17:42) Why are so many unwilling to see what is in front of them. And WJ you have still not explained 1Cor 15. That’s  funny I am saying the same… Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, “the King of kings, and Lord of lords”; 1 Tim 6:15 And then the Apostle John confirms who he is when he writes… These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for “he is Lord of lords, and King of kings”: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Rev 17:14 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS”. Rev 19:16 It can’t be any clearer, it is right before your eyes! Who shall make war and overcome them? WJ WJ Not even the Son knows when He's coming back only the Father knows that, so he is the one that will bring it about at the proper time.

Wrong!

Jesus spoke those words in the days of his flesh, but all things has been given back to him and he has returned to the Glory he shared with the Father when he was there in the beginning with the Father and the Spirit creating all things!

WJ

[uoflfan]

If Jesus had all wisdom and knowledge then He would know when He was coming back already and read your Bible. He is on the Throne of David not the Throne of God. He is at God's right hand.

[Author]

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