The Trinity Doctrine

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 05 2009,12:45)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2009,14:35) Can a person really only blaspheme 1/3 of God? any honest trinitarian would drop their belief immediately on this proof My wife and I are one. If a man rapes my wife has he sinned against me? The answer is yes and no. He has sinned against my wife personally but against me only by association. He could not be charged with two offenses. He would be judged in a court of law only for the personal sin against my wife. So 1/3 of the trinity may be blasphemed personally. But the entire trinity is also sinned against though not in the same way. The Holy Spirit when blasphemed is sinned against personally. The Father and the Son are also sinned against by association. It is the personal sin against the Spirit that is unforgiveable and subject to damnation. Questions like this are insincere and reflect the waywardness of your heart. thinker

Jack

Good point! But the Muslim only seeks to find fault in the word of God!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2009,13:19)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 05 2009,18:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 04 2009,22:35) Can a person really only blaspheme 1/3 of God? any honest trinitarian would drop their belief immediately on this proof BD You are being evasive! Answer the questions! Is God seperate from his Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit the Father? Does God have more than one Spirit? If not then the Spirit must be greater than the Father if you can't be forgiven blasphemy of the Spirit but you can of the Father? If you say that the Holy Spirit is the Father then you are saying the Holy Spirit is God, and if so why is the Holy Spirit subject to Jesus and how did the Father send himself? Answer me and stop with all of your foolish gestures! WJ And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. Leviticus 24:14-16 Just so you know Blasphemy is to curse God. If you do this and you bear your sin as it says that means Jesus cannot bear the sin for you. This scripture says GOD so whatever you believe God to be cannot be blasphemed and it be forgiven but Jesus says this is not so with him, he says he CAN be blasphemed and it will or can be forgiven. You cannot blaspheme the Father because the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD who was the one doing the work through Jesus. Jesus did these things through the Holy Spirit OF God. any honest trinitarian would immediately drom their belief with this proof. The fact is the scripture says You cannot curse/blaspheme God you cannot blaspheme/curse The Holy Spirit You can blaspheme Jesus, in-fact the scriptures say that Christ became a curse for us so to believe that Christ is God is to believe that God is cursed which is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So I ask you is the Holy Spirit Accursed? Is God accursed? Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Galatians 3:12-14 If you say that Jesus is God and say that he is cursed you bear your own sin. Any sincere and honest trinitarian will drop their belief immediately upon reading this or declare that they believe that God is cursed, which will it be?

BD

Again, the scripture you use says nothing of blashpemy!

If what you are saying is true, then any man that cursed the Father could never be forgiven, right?

What about all the times you cursed him in your life.

According to you there is no hope of forgiveness for most.

Not only that, but the Blasphemy Jesus was speaking of was not about cursing God but about calling the works of God satans works.

Are you going to answer the questions?

WJ

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 06 2009,16:35)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2009,13:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 05 2009,18:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 04 2009,22:35) Can a person really only blaspheme 1/3 of God? any honest trinitarian would drop their belief immediately on this proof BD You are being evasive! Answer the questions! Is God seperate from his Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit the Father? Does God have more than one Spirit? If not then the Spirit must be greater than the Father if you can't be forgiven blasphemy of the Spirit but you can of the Father? If you say that the Holy Spirit is the Father then you are saying the Holy Spirit is God, and if so why is the Holy Spirit subject to Jesus and how did the Father send himself? Answer me and stop with all of your foolish gestures! WJ And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. Leviticus 24:14-16 Just so you know Blasphemy is to curse God. If you do this and you bear your sin as it says that means Jesus cannot bear the sin for you. This scripture says GOD so whatever you believe God to be cannot be blasphemed and it be forgiven but Jesus says this is not so with him, he says he CAN be blasphemed and it will or can be forgiven. You cannot blaspheme the Father because the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD who was the one doing the work through Jesus. Jesus did these things through the Holy Spirit OF God. any honest trinitarian would immediately drom their belief with this proof. The fact is the scripture says You cannot curse/blaspheme God you cannot blaspheme/curse The Holy Spirit You can blaspheme Jesus, in-fact the scriptures say that Christ became a curse for us so to believe that Christ is God is to believe that God is cursed which is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So I ask you is the Holy Spirit Accursed? Is God accursed? Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Galatians 3:12-14 If you say that Jesus is God and say that he is cursed you bear your own sin. Any sincere and honest trinitarian will drop their belief immediately upon reading this or declare that they believe that God is cursed, which will it be? BD Again, the scripture you use says nothing of blashpemy! If what you are saying is true, then any man that cursed the Father could never be forgiven, right? What about all the times you cursed him in your life. According to you there is no hope of forgiveness for most. Not only that, but the Blasphemy Jesus was speaking of was not about cursing God but about calling the works of God satans works. Are you going to answer the questions? WJ

I have never cursed the Father and I hope you haven't either, by the way why would you?

Cursing God is calling the works of God satanic and that is blasphemy i.e. slander.

Any sincere and honest trinitarian will drop their belief immediately upon reading this or declare that they believe that God is cursed, which will it be?

Is God 3 persons and are these 3 persons 1 God and if so can One God be blasphemed without blapheming all 3 persons?

Any God fearing trinitarian will drop their belief immediately upon reading this or declare that they believe that God can be partially cursed, which will it be?

[peace2all]

one should really only be concerned about one thing. doing the will of god as in the bible. one must repent and mean it. one must accept jesus as savior and only means to god's kingdom. preach the good news of god throughout the world and make disciples. batpism. do not accept the false teaching and worships of man. trinity,pagan solstice our holidays. no worship of other gods or idols or images – no mary or cross or other god worship!

if you adhere to what the bible says only, you will rejoice for you are in union with god and god is in union with you.

[KangarooJack]

Bodhitharta said:

Quote

You said the entire trinity is God so you believe that God is not ONE.

It is evident that you do not comprehend the concept of unity. Look it up.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 06 2009,16:29)

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 05 2009,12:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2009,14:35) Can a person really only blaspheme 1/3 of God? any honest trinitarian would drop their belief immediately on this proof My wife and I are one. If a man rapes my wife has he sinned against me? The answer is yes and no. He has sinned against my wife personally but against me only by association. He could not be charged with two offenses. He would be judged in a court of law only for the personal sin against my wife. So 1/3 of the trinity may be blasphemed personally. But the entire trinity is also sinned against though not in the same way. The Holy Spirit when blasphemed is sinned against personally. The Father and the Son are also sinned against by association. It is the personal sin against the Spirit that is unforgiveable and subject to damnation. Questions like this are insincere and reflect the waywardness of your heart. thinker Jack Good point! But the Muslim only seeks to find fault in the word of God! WJ

Yes WJ,
BD is not at all sincere in his questions. It is plain to all that he just wants to poke holes in the Bible.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 06 2009,03:52)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 06 2009,16:35) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2009,13:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 05 2009,18:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 04 2009,22:35) Can a person really only blaspheme 1/3 of God? any honest trinitarian would drop their belief immediately on this proof BD You are being evasive! Answer the questions! Is God seperate from his Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit the Father? Does God have more than one Spirit? If not then the Spirit must be greater than the Father if you can't be forgiven blasphemy of the Spirit but you can of the Father? If you say that the Holy Spirit is the Father then you are saying the Holy Spirit is God, and if so why is the Holy Spirit subject to Jesus and how did the Father send himself? Answer me and stop with all of your foolish gestures! WJ And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. Leviticus 24:14-16 Just so you know Blasphemy is to curse God. If you do this and you bear your sin as it says that means Jesus cannot bear the sin for you. This scripture says GOD so whatever you believe God to be cannot be blasphemed and it be forgiven but Jesus says this is not so with him, he says he CAN be blasphemed and it will or can be forgiven. You cannot blaspheme the Father because the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD who was the one doing the work through Jesus. Jesus did these things through the Holy Spirit OF God. any honest trinitarian would immediately drom their belief with this proof. The fact is the scripture says You cannot curse/blaspheme God you cannot blaspheme/curse The Holy Spirit You can blaspheme Jesus, in-fact the scriptures say that Christ became a curse for us so to believe that Christ is God is to believe that God is cursed which is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So I ask you is the Holy Spirit Accursed? Is God accursed? Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Galatians 3:12-14 If you say that Jesus is God and say that he is cursed you bear your own sin. Any sincere and honest trinitarian will drop their belief immediately upon reading this or declare that they believe that God is cursed, which will it be? BD Again, the scripture you use says nothing of blashpemy! If what you are saying is true, then any man that cursed the Father could never be forgiven, right? What about all the times you cursed him in your life. According to you there is no hope of forgiveness for most. Not only that, but the Blasphemy Jesus was speaking of was not about cursing God but about calling the works of God satans works. Are you going to answer the questions? WJ I have never cursed the Father and I hope you haven't either, by the way why would you? Cursing God is calling the works of God satanic and that is blasphemy i.e. slander. Any sincere and honest trinitarian will drop their belief immediately upon reading this or declare that they believe that God is cursed, which will it be? Is God 3 persons and are these 3 persons 1 God and if so can One God be blasphemed without blapheming all 3 persons? Any God fearing trinitarian will drop their belief immediately upon reading this or declare that they believe that God can be partially cursed, which will it be?

BD

Like I said, you cannot or will not answer my questions!

Any honest person will admit that if the Holy Spirit can be blashpemed then the Holy Spirit is a person.

Any honest person would have to admit either the Holy Spirit is the Father or “another” like Jesus said.

Which is it Bd, is the Holy Spirit God or not?

WJ

[peace2all]

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 08 2009,03:25)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 06 2009,16:29) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 05 2009,12:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2009,14:35) Can a person really only blaspheme 1/3 of God? any honest trinitarian would drop their belief immediately on this proof My wife and I are one. If a man rapes my wife has he sinned against me? The answer is yes and no. He has sinned against my wife personally but against me only by association. He could not be charged with two offenses. He would be judged in a court of law only for the personal sin against my wife. So 1/3 of the trinity may be blasphemed personally. But the entire trinity is also sinned against though not in the same way. The Holy Spirit when blasphemed is sinned against personally. The Father and the Son are also sinned against by association. It is the personal sin against the Spirit that is unforgiveable and subject to damnation. Questions like this are insincere and reflect the waywardness of your heart. thinker Jack Good point! But the Muslim only seeks to find fault in the word of God! WJ Yes WJ, BD is not at all sincere in his questions. It is plain to all that he just wants to poke holes in the Bible. thinker

thats what i don't understand. BOD says to claim to use the bible and love the god in the bible but then go out of the way to prove it wrong and call god a liar.

why not just say teh truth and that your bible is muhammad's bibe and yuor messiah is muhammad

Quran and muhammad you worship.

i don't think god is gping to give you new writings and a new messiah after sending his son and having his words already written, then say go disprove and demean myself and my son.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 08 2009,04:04)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 06 2009,03:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 06 2009,16:35) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 05 2009,13:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 05 2009,18:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 04 2009,22:35) Can a person really only blaspheme 1/3 of God? any honest trinitarian would drop their belief immediately on this proof BD You are being evasive! Answer the questions! Is God seperate from his Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit the Father? Does God have more than one Spirit? If not then the Spirit must be greater than the Father if you can't be forgiven blasphemy of the Spirit but you can of the Father? If you say that the Holy Spirit is the Father then you are saying the Holy Spirit is God, and if so why is the Holy Spirit subject to Jesus and how did the Father send himself? Answer me and stop with all of your foolish gestures! WJ And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. Leviticus 24:14-16 Just so you know Blasphemy is to curse God. If you do this and you bear your sin as it says that means Jesus cannot bear the sin for you. This scripture says GOD so whatever you believe God to be cannot be blasphemed and it be forgiven but Jesus says this is not so with him, he says he CAN be blasphemed and it will or can be forgiven. You cannot blaspheme the Father because the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD who was the one doing the work through Jesus. Jesus did these things through the Holy Spirit OF God. any honest trinitarian would immediately drom their belief with this proof. The fact is the scripture says You cannot curse/blaspheme God you cannot blaspheme/curse The Holy Spirit You can blaspheme Jesus, in-fact the scriptures say that Christ became a curse for us so to believe that Christ is God is to believe that God is cursed which is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. So I ask you is the Holy Spirit Accursed? Is God accursed? Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Galatians 3:12-14 If you say that Jesus is God and say that he is cursed you bear your own sin. Any sincere and honest trinitarian will drop their belief immediately upon reading this or declare that they believe that God is cursed, which will it be? BD Again, the scripture you use says nothing of blashpemy! If what you are saying is true, then any man that cursed the Father could never be forgiven, right? What about all the times you cursed him in your life. According to you there is no hope of forgiveness for most. Not only that, but the Blasphemy Jesus was speaking of was not about cursing God but about calling the works of God satans works. Are you going to answer the questions? WJ I have never cursed the Father and I hope you haven't either, by the way why would you? Cursing God is calling the works of God satanic and that is blasphemy i.e. slander. Any sincere and honest trinitarian will drop their belief immediately upon reading this or declare that they believe that God is cursed, which will it be? Is God 3 persons and are these 3 persons 1 God and if so can One God be blasphemed without blapheming all 3 persons? Any God fearing trinitarian will drop their belief immediately upon reading this or declare that they believe that God can be partially cursed, which will it be? BD Like I said, you cannot or will not answer my questions! Any honest person will admit that if the Holy Spirit can be blashpemed then the Holy Spirit is a person. Any honest person would have to admit either the Holy Spirit is the Father or “another” like Jesus said. Which is it Bd, is the Holy Spirit God or not? WJ

Holy Spirit in Islam is an agent of divine action or communication commonly identified with the angel Gabriel (ar: Jibreel) or Ruhul Qudus but also alternatively with the created spirit from God by which he enlivened Adam, made Mary pregnant with Jesus, and inspired the angels and the prophets. The belief in Trinity is explicitly forbidden by the Qur'an and called a grave sin. The same applies to any idea of the duality of God (Allah).[

Judaism
In Judaism, the idea of God as a duality or trinity is heretical.Nonetheless, the term Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit) is found frequently in Talmudic and Midrashic literature. In some cases it signifies prophetic inspiration, while in others it is used as a hypostatization or a metonym for God.[42] The Rabbinic “Holy Spirit,” has a certain degree of personification, but it remains, “a quality belonging to God, one of his attributes” and not, as in Christianity, representative of “any metaphysical divisions in the Godhead.”[43]

Does this answer your question?

You cannot blaspheme the Father where did you get that from?

Also have you never heard of the 7 Spirits of God? Tell me which one of those spirits would not be Holy? Or do you believe that these 7 Spirits of God are all individual persons? That's more than a trinity.

You cannot curse/blaspeme God but you can blaspheme Jesus (Of course no one should do such a thing but if so it is forgiveable)

In other words there would be no reason to call The Holy Spirit “God” nor is it written in any scripture at all.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You cannot be reborn from above by means of any angel.
The Spirit is as the finger of God [mt12/lk11]
God did not give His Spirit to Adam.

We are being built as a temple for God in the Spirit[Eph2]

[peace2all]

the holy spirit is not god. your right. it is what he has used to do his will.

[KangarooJack]

Bodhitharta said:

Quote

Also have you never heard of the 7 Spirits of God? Tell me which one of those spirits would not be Holy? Or do you believe that these 7 Spirits of God are all individual persons? That's more than a trinity.

The translation “seven spirits of God” is not preferable. The noun case allows for them to be identified as the “seven spirits from God.” This is more likely because it says that they were sent into the land of Asia. They were simply messengers FROM God.

Bodhitharta:

Quote

You cannot curse/blaspeme God but you can blaspheme Jesus (Of course no one should do such a thing but if so it is forgiveable)

According to John 10 the Jews wanted to kill Jesus for blasphemy. If He was not blaspheming against God then what was that blasphemy all about?

WJ has you cornered dude! You must deny that God can be blasphemed so you can wiggle out of the implication that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is blasphemy against God.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi P2,
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.
You have your own spirit and would be dead without iot.
God in heaven manifests here and accomplishes His works in creation by His finger.[mt12/lk11]

[KangarooJack]

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 08 2009,05:26)

the holy spirit is not god. your right. it is what he has used to do his will.

Then why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit unforgiveable?

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
The Spirit is of God and proceeds from God.
Jesus is the Son of that God.
Fear God.

[peace2all]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 08 2009,06:37)

Hi TT, The Spirit is of God and proceeds from God. Jesus is the Son of that God. Fear God.

right. jesus is not god. jesus is not the almighty LORD that is to only be worship.

jesus is not equal too or greater than god, so even though one may reject jesus himself its not at god.

all those who believe the TRINITY this shows you that god and jesus are then infact not one or the same or equal.

but they will ignore and try to disprove god by cutting and pasting or using their own imagination on what a scripture.

however – the works done by means of the holy spirit is the question.

that would be god actually having used his own will or doing or force to make something happen – if that is done and one rejects or tries to hide or lie about and mislead the miracles and deeds that god himself is doing it is so against god.

if you blasphemy god or the works he has shown and you are having the understanding and knowledge of it and it being shown to you and yet you deny or demean or distort or hide or misdirect the truth , to do those detestable things you are against god directly.

best bet also is not to try to disprove or call god a liar with false messiahs and false bibles(quran) man's doctrines or try to only dispute gods words.

[peace2all]

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 08 2009,05:31)

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 08 2009,05:26) the holy spirit is not god. your right. it is what he has used to do his will. Then why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit unforgiveable? thinker

because it is god's works. god's own hand in a miracle or act or whatever.

if a man makes a great piece of art and you go and say nasty false hurtful thing and deny who made it or gave false information about it, etc..

you are hurting and doing damage to the creator or owner of the thing being done or made.

but if your against his son which has nothig to do with what ws done, then thats not the same is it.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 08 2009,10:36)

Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 08 2009,05:31) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 08 2009,05:26) the holy spirit is not god. your right. it is what he has used to do his will. Then why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit unforgiveable? thinker because it is god's works. god's own hand in a miracle or act or whatever. if a man makes a great piece of art and you go and say nasty false hurtful thing and deny who made it or gave false information about it, etc.. you are hurting and doing damage to the creator or owner of the thing being done or made. but if your against his son which has nothig to do with what ws done, then thats not the same is it.

Excellent answer!

[peace2all]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 08 2009,11:02)

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 08 2009,10:36) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 08 2009,05:31) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 08 2009,05:26) the holy spirit is not god. your right. it is what he has used to do his will. Then why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit unforgiveable? thinker because it is god's works. god's own hand in a miracle or act or whatever. if a man makes a great piece of art and you go and say nasty false hurtful thing and deny who made it or gave false information about it, etc.. you are hurting and doing damage to the creator or owner of the thing being done or made. but if your against his son which has nothig to do with what ws done, then thats not the same is it. Excellent answer!

thank you . now all you have to do is accept christ jesus as your mesiah not muhammad and use the holy scriptures in full and try not to disprove god almighty and do the spiritual works and faith that will only save you not the works of man.

your life will be elevated more than now.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 08 2009,11:24)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 08 2009,11:02) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 08 2009,10:36) Quote (thethinker @ Dec. 08 2009,05:31) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 08 2009,05:26) the holy spirit is not god. your right. it is what he has used to do his will. Then why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit unforgiveable? thinker because it is god's works. god's own hand in a miracle or act or whatever. if a man makes a great piece of art and you go and say nasty false hurtful thing and deny who made it or gave false information about it, etc.. you are hurting and doing damage to the creator or owner of the thing being done or made. but if your against his son which has nothig to do with what ws done, then thats not the same is it. Excellent answer! thank you . now all you have to do is accept christ jesus as your mesiah not muhammad and use the holy scriptures in full and try not to disprove god almighty and do the spiritual works and faith that will only save you not the works of man. your life will be elevated more than now.

Jesus is Messiah and Muhammad is a prophet why does that bother you do you dislike all of the prophets of God or just Muhammad?

Yes, Works and faith in God. Even through Christ, but in God nonetheless

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