The Trinity Doctrine

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2009,05:12)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 30 2009,22:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 31 2009,13:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 30 2009,02:42) Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 30 2009,18:16) Bo, You say that Christ had no actual Father and that proves that the God of the Qua'ran is different than the God of the Bible because the Bible says that Jesus' Father is God Himself.  God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son.  It doesn't say that He gave His created son.  There lies a big difference. If you want to think about a miracle think about this, the Son of God who had existed already since before creation as a living being and then morphing into a human baby's body because He and His Father cared for us.  I think that is pretty impressive but you are right, creation of Adam is amazing also. I must ask you if Jesus was a being before coming to earth did he go himself into Mary or did God place him in Mary? at what time wasn't God your Father? Hi Bo, It was a cooperative effort, both had a part in it from what I can tell. So God didn't send Jesus? They agreed he would go? Bo, God did send Him and He willingly went.  Both were involved in Christ's coming in the flesh. My opinion, Kathi

I have an interesting question: If all things by God are done through Christ, how was God getting things done while Christ was on earth?

[NickHassan]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 01 2009,13:43)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 01 2009,11:04) Hi BD, Really? You can rebirth yourself? Any old self appointed prophet is good enough? No Jesus is the source for us of the waters that well up to everlasting life [jn7]and rebirth is of that Spirit, not man's willing.[Jn1] Jesus said you can be born again whike he was still on earth so you must not design your own vision it is what it is.

Hi BD,
Indeed he did.

And when he returned to God His Spirit was shared among members of his body at Pentecost.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
How did you make Jesus Lord of your life?
Surely that is the work of God and rebirth is of water and the Spirit?

[Lightenup]

Nick,
I never remember denying Jesus as Lord in my life. I know that I haven't always pleased Him but I never felt forsaken by Him or forsook Him. I do not see rebirth from water baptism. Water baptism is an ordinance to follow as obedience to God. I was baptized as a baby and when in college I felt that it was meant to be something that I chose to do and not my parents, so I was immersed.

LU

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Men are born under the aegis of another ruler and must be reborn from above.
Our claims to his Lordship over us are not as important as his knowing of us and our obedience to him.

Repentance[as all have sinned] and baptism in the name of Jesus are part of the way and then the promise to all is the rebirth from above by God's Spirit[Acts 2.39]

Unless we have his Spirit we are none of his and yet any who have obeyed can ask for that Spirit[Lk11]

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 01 2009,14:43)

Hi LU, Men are born under the aegis of another ruler and must be reborn from above. Our claims to his Lordship over us are not as important as his knowing of us and our obedience to him. Repentance[as all have sinned] and baptism in the name of Jesus are part of the way and then the promise to all is the rebirth from above by God's Spirit[Acts 2.39] Unless we have his Spirit we are none of his and yet any who have obeyed can ask for that Spirit[Lk11]

yes, and your point??

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Thanks for sharing.

[Lightenup]

No problem, Nick.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 02 2009,06:43)

Hi LU, Men are born under the aegis of another ruler and must be reborn from above. Our claims to his Lordship over us are not as important as his knowing of us and our obedience to him. Repentance[as all have sinned] and baptism in the name of Jesus are part of the way and then the promise to all is the rebirth from above by God's Spirit[Acts 2.39] Unless we have his Spirit we are none of his and yet any who have obeyed can ask for that Spirit[Lk11]

Men are not born under the aegis of another ruler and there is no original sin for God did not create Adam with sin but he sinned by being disobedient likewise Cain and Abel were both born without sin, one yielded to sin and one proved to be righteous before God. Original Sin is a Catholic Idea and one that you still cling to?

There were many perfect men.

Yet if you believe this:

Romans 3:23 (King James Version)

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Then how can you believe that Jesus did not sin? If All really means All?

[bodhitharta]

In regards to righteousness being likened to filthy rags that does not include All

Isaiah 64

4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.

5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Did Jesus fall short of the glory of God?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 02 2009,18:23)

Hi BD, Did Jesus fall short of the glory of God?

For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1 Corinthians 11:6-8

That is my point exactly Jesus is the Glory of God as all men were made to be but most don't know.

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
Proverbs 25:1-3

[Proclaimer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 26 2009,06:09)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 26 2009,04:25) Hi Bo, Jesus is God, the begotten God.  He has a God (His and our Father) from whom we get the Holy Spirit as it pours out through His Son…it is Jesus's God that we dare not blaspheme. As I see it.  They are one in unity. God bless, Kathi I understand what you are saying but the definition of God is The Supreme Being or as it says in the Bible The MOST HIGH, that is why Jesus says “Our Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD” Therefore Jesus cannot be truly God in any way except in Godliness thus it is written And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Luke 1:34-36 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah 43:9-11 God says(according to the scriptures) that what your saying can't be true.

I see what you are both saying. I would like to add that theos and elohim can be used to identify as in the Most High God and to qualify, as in divine nature or divine authority.

Similarly, devil can identify Satan and it can be used to describe a nature or character such as the one Judas had. Also, 'Adam' identifies the first man, and 'adam' also means man (mankind). Man is a word used to describe the nature of Adam and his offspring.

Once that is understood, there is no barrier to God being the Father and the word theos/elohim being used in reference to angels, judges, and Jesus.

The confusion is gone when this truth is understood.

The Divine and divine are 2 different contexts for the same word.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 02 2009,19:36)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 02 2009,18:23) Hi BD, Did Jesus fall short of the glory of God? For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 1 Corinthians 11:6-8 That is my point exactly Jesus is the Glory of God as all men were made to be but most don't know. It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. Proverbs 25:1-3

And to take this even closer, Christ is the head of man.

1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Do you agree bodhitharta?

Christ is the head of man, just as man is the head of the woman and God is the head of Christ.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
He who knew no sin became sin for us.
He took our sin to his death by crucifixion.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 02 2009,19:57)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 02 2009,19:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 02 2009,18:23) Hi BD, Did Jesus fall short of the glory of God? For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 1 Corinthians 11:6-8 That is my point exactly Jesus is the Glory of God as all men were made to be but most don't know. It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. Proverbs 25:1-3 And to take this even closer, Christ is the head of man. 1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Do you agree bodhitharta? Christ is the head of man, just as man is the head of the woman and God is the head of Christ.

Actually Christ is the Head of Man until man over comes and at that point Man is made like Jesus and receives the crown of like “and we will be like him” and a “pillar in the temple of God” Ultimately the truth is there is God and His creation.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
No Christ is ever the head of his body.
His brothers are created in him to be alike to him and to share his Spirit but never to be equal to or be greater than the Lord of all.

You should come to him to join with his God in the celebrations but you must first be born again.
Seek first the kingdom of God-Jesus is the door to that kingdom.

[Lightenup]

Bo,
The kingdom will not just be the kingdom of God but the kingdom of God AND His Christ. Christ is much more than a prophet.

Rev 11:15
15 Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”
NASU

[RokkaMan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 03 2009,10:45)

Bo, The kingdom will not just be the kingdom of God but the kingdom of God AND His Christ.  Christ is much more than a prophet. Rev 11:15 15 Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.” NASU

Amen, Christ being God's Son is to inherit everything God owns.

In revelation Jesus is not recognized as God himself, but he is glorified along side God.

Like we've been saying, They share the same glory…but they are not the same being.

[NickHassan]

Hi RM,
The son has his own glory and John said they had seen his glory.[Jn1.14]
God does not share his glory with any but the glory of God was with him because God was with him[Acts 10]

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