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Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 09 2009,05:49) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 28 2009,11:56) CA, Jesus is/was a man anointed by God and you are part of the gentiles that God calls a foolish nation. Now you should understand why ther are called a foolish nation. No Jew could bear the foolishness of the Catholic belief that God is triune so the prophecy has definitely occured and it has driven the Jews mad with the ignorance of most foolish Christians and the Pagan belief of a Triune God
Islam took many elements from Judaism.There were Jews who received Christ and those who rejected Him and His revelation and declaration of the Father and the Holy Spirit. Those who received Him were Trinitarians. Those who rejected Him tried to act as thought Messiah had not yet come. But all early Christians were Trinitarian.
Islam didn't take any elements from Judaism because it is not some other religion Islam is the progression of the One religion of Submission that God has always insisted upon. Strict Monotheism has always been the message of God.All early Christians believed that Jesus was the foretold Messiah that was to come. No one was waiting for God Himself to descend to Earth and you very well know that.
There is no Jew ever in the History of Judaism that has ever even heard of God coming in the flesh. They did however believe in The Spirit of God dwelling in the Flesh as in Elijah, Elisha, Moses and Jesus. When they saw people of this quality they would say surely God is with this person and not God is surely this person.
Jesus was not the first to raise the dead, heal the sick, multiply food or even ascend into heaven so why would someone suddenly believe that a person who can do all of these things is God. Even on “The Cross” they thought he was crying out for ELIJAH so how do you say he would have been seen as any more than a Man of God?
Some people who didnt know any better had also called Paul God, is Paul God because someone believed it?
Acts 28
6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.Is Paul a God, too?
No early Christian could have conceived of a trinity because the concept of a trinity only was formed when trying to make sense out of exactly what was the nature of Jesus but at that time they had not truly studied Jewish theology or considered other prophets that had done things that they would have equally called divine.
Hi BD,
You wish.
No it is a diversion from the true path.
It even thinks it can correct the words of the Spirit of God through God's proven servantsQuote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 09 2009,05:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 28 2009,06:43) Hi CA,
Why quote carnal men whose pleasure it is to invent all manner of follies?
Scripture never mentions any trinity and it is the rock.
I think you missed this part:“Because Modalism asserts that there is only one person in the Godhead, it makes nonsense of passages which show Jesus talking to his Father (e.g., John 17), or declaring he is going to be with the Father (John 14:12, 28, 16:10) One role of a person cannot go to be with another role of that person, or say that the two of them will send the Holy Spirit while they remain in heaven (John 14:16-17, 26, 15:26, 16:13–15; Acts 2:32–33).”
Hi CA:There is no question that there are two, the Father and the Son, but the scriptures are clear that the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit and not a third person.
The scripture also states that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, but no man can receive the Holy Spirit except by coming to God through the Son. The origin of the Holy Spirit is God's soul.
Quote 1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Quote Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Quote Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].
Psa 139:9 [If] I take the wings of the morning, [and] dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
I don't see how this can be any clearer.
Love in Christ,
MartyI have just realized that no one actually believes in the “Trinity” Judaism calls it gentile consciousness and it is more like a disability to them than a reality, they say that a Jewish Consciousness is Monotheistic but it has to be kept in mind that the gentile mind has always been steeped in polytheism byt the strange thing is that Polytheist are a strange bunch who would make Idols and call them gods knowing that they were not gods so the gentile mind encountering the Jewish religion without understanding Monotheism could not handle the singularity of God because their Cosciousness cannot tolerate anything less than some form of “gods” even the Jews kept having this problem such as with the golden calf that they repeatedly worshipped which if you understood is no different than Cow worship in india today.
Monotheism literally falls apart in the mind of a “gentile” Consciousness. The gentile paganistic mind also is forced to always equate some form of god with man and always has, there mind can't concieve of a God beyond understanding unless they first humanize that understanding.
No one can actually believe in a trinity and you can know this from the fact that the first thing done is the enumeration of “persons” within what is know as a Singular God. In Other words instead of saying there are more gods they simply incorporate more “Persons” or more “revealings” anything other than there being One God consisting of ONE BEING with One Will.
The gentile mind actually does see Jesus as a god, the father as a god and the Holy Spirit as a god and every explanation leads to the conclusion of different “persons” doing different “functions” and not One being doing ALL Things according to HIS SOVEREIGN PURPOSE.
You see they have to believe that God(Jesus) died and didn't(Father) die or didn't(Holy Spirit) die at the same time and no one can really believe that.
I would also have to say that this is shown clearly in the bible as the word “gentiles” roughly means “Nations” you see nations had gods but God told the Israelites that they were to be a Nation with The God with the concept that this One Nation has this One God and this One God is also the God of all flesh, as you can see in the bible itself there is no mention of a Plurality when it comes to God because in the beginning God was “The Gods” or “POWERS such as is the meaning of Elohim not Powers is meaning more than one but as in ALL.
Now understanding that the word ALL is singularluy inclusive with plurality only being in magnitude of itself one can see that for instance someone saying I have ALL the money is to say that money may have different magnitudes but I have ALL of it such is the same with God having ALL the POWERS but ALL the POWER belongs to God, but to say Powers is not to say Gods and this is where the gentile consciousness fails and why God loved Abraham so much because he raised his consciousness to a single point and “Saw” God was ONE.
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 09 2009,10:32) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 09 2009,05:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 28 2009,06:43) Hi CA,
Why quote carnal men whose pleasure it is to invent all manner of follies?
Scripture never mentions any trinity and it is the rock.
I think you missed this part:“Because Modalism asserts that there is only one person in the Godhead, it makes nonsense of passages which show Jesus talking to his Father (e.g., John 17), or declaring he is going to be with the Father (John 14:12, 28, 16:10) One role of a person cannot go to be with another role of that person, or say that the two of them will send the Holy Spirit while they remain in heaven (John 14:16-17, 26, 15:26, 16:13–15; Acts 2:32–33).”
Hi CA:There is no question that there are two, the Father and the Son, but the scriptures are clear that the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit and not a third person.
The scripture also states that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, but no man can receive the Holy Spirit except by coming to God through the Son. The origin of the Holy Spirit is God's soul.
Quote 1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Quote Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Quote Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].
Psa 139:9 [If] I take the wings of the morning, [and] dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
I don't see how this can be any clearer.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Those Scriptures seem to be clearly talking about another person besides the Father…which brings me to my point from another thread that I am waiting for a reply from you. Sola Scriptura is Sola Me. It makes every man his own arbiter of truth.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 09 2009,18:40) Hi CA,
Why are you so frightened to learn from the Scriptures?
Nick…………good point. I would like to know that also.peace and love………….gene
Bodhitharta said:
Quote I have just realized that no one actually believes in the “Trinity” Judaism calls it gentile consciousness and it is more like a disability to them than a reality, they say that a Jewish Consciousness is Monotheistic Jewish “Monotheists” rejected their Messiah. True or false? Moses, A Jew, and Hagar the mother of Arabs believed that YHWH was a plural one.
Quote 9 The Angel of the LORD said to her, “Return to your mistress, and submit yourself under her hand.” 10 Then the Angel of the LORD said to her, “I will multiply your descendants exceedingly, so that they shall not be counted for multitude.” 11 And the Angel of the LORD said to her: “ Behold, you are with child,
And you shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,
Because the LORD has heard your affliction.12 He shall be a wild man;
His hand shall be against every man,
And every man’s hand against him.
And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.”
13 Then she called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees; for she said, “Have I also here seen Him who sees me?” (Genesis 16:9-13).The Angel from YHWH said to Hagar, “I will multiply your seed” (vs. 10). Why didn't the Angel say to her “YHWH shall multiply your seed?” Moses said that the Angel who spoke with Hagar was YHWH (vs. 13). Then Hagar called the Angel, “The God who sees me” (vs. 13).
It appears that Moses and Hagar had the “gentile consciousness disability” you speak about. For they believed that the Angel from YHWH shared YHWH'S name. And the Angel also must have been suffering from the “gentile consciousness disability” for He said, “I will multiply your seed.”
I marvel that you would argue from what comes out of apostate Judaism.
thinker
Quote (Gene @ Sep. 10 2009,03:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 09 2009,18:40) Hi CA,
Why are you so frightened to learn from the Scriptures?
Nick…………good point. I would like to know that also.peace and love………….gene
I WAS “frightened” with my own weakness and inability to hear infallibly from God. But I am at great peace now. Praise the Lord!Why aren't you boys FRIGHTENED that you can't find one verse to support Sola Scriptura?
Why aren't you FRIGHTENED that you can't give one solid argument for why you believe in the Canon of Scripture you hold?
This is why I seldom respond to you jokers. When you want to get serious and get out of the sand box and be REAL MEN, let me know.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 09 2009,05:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 28 2009,06:43) Hi CA,
Why quote carnal men whose pleasure it is to invent all manner of follies?
Scripture never mentions any trinity and it is the rock.
I think you missed this part:“Because Modalism asserts that there is only one person in the Godhead, it makes nonsense of passages which show Jesus talking to his Father (e.g., John 17), or declaring he is going to be with the Father (John 14:12, 28, 16:10) One role of a person cannot go to be with another role of that person, or say that the two of them will send the Holy Spirit while they remain in heaven (John 14:16-17, 26, 15:26, 16:13–15; Acts 2:32–33).”
Let me try to understand….So when the bible says God is ONE, it does not mean one person. It merely means they are one in unity? Like a brotherhood? Like, give-me-five we are in agreement?
(not mocking, merely trying to get it).Love,
MandyQuote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 10 2009,05:50) Quote (Gene @ Sep. 10 2009,03:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 09 2009,18:40) Hi CA,
Why are you so frightened to learn from the Scriptures?
Nick…………good point. I would like to know that also.peace and love………….gene
I WAS “frightened” with my own weakness and inability to hear infallibly from God. But I am at great peace now. Praise the Lord!Why aren't you boys FRIGHTENED that you can't find one verse to support Sola Scriptura?
Why aren't you FRIGHTENED that you can't give one solid argument for why you believe in the Canon of Scripture you hold?
This is why I seldom respond to you jokers. When you want to get serious and get out of the sand box and be REAL MEN, let me know.
CA,I can tell that we have a lot in common. I wish we had the luxury of hours over coffee…..
I also tremble at the knowledge that I have no certain knowledge. How does the saying go? The more I learn, the more I find that I do not know? Something like that.
You have solved your problem with the Catholic explaination and documents. I'm afraid that I will solve my problem by walking away entirely….
Love,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 10 2009,06:03) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 09 2009,05:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 28 2009,06:43) Hi CA,
Why quote carnal men whose pleasure it is to invent all manner of follies?
Scripture never mentions any trinity and it is the rock.
I think you missed this part:“Because Modalism asserts that there is only one person in the Godhead, it makes nonsense of passages which show Jesus talking to his Father (e.g., John 17), or declaring he is going to be with the Father (John 14:12, 28, 16:10) One role of a person cannot go to be with another role of that person, or say that the two of them will send the Holy Spirit while they remain in heaven (John 14:16-17, 26, 15:26, 16:13–15; Acts 2:32–33).”
Let me try to understand….So when the bible says God is ONE, it does not mean one person. It merely means they are one in unity? Like a brotherhood? Like, give-me-five we are in agreement?
(not mocking, merely trying to get it).Love,
Mandy
Yes, but more. Of course that part is essential. But at the core, what we confess is that all three persons are ontologically one. They have the same essence: God. They have the same nature: God. That essence is completely unified (connected)Hi TT,
You really are missing something important as your god is growing every day and now contains angels?
No support from you friends it seems now you have drifted so far from the truth.Hi CA,
You can know you God and not just have to talk about His theological essense.
Fellowship with Him and His son would blow away so much of your confusion and you would not have to rely on the theories of others..Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 10 2009,06:34) Hi CA,
You can know you God and not just have to talk about His theological essense.
Fellowship with Him and His son would blow away so much of your confusion and you would not have to rely on the theories of others..
I don't necessarily believe this, Nick.CA and I grew up in a very “relationship” based church. I have felt in my life a very deep connection to God. I'm sure CA can testify as well…….
Feelings – you can't trust them.
Hi not3,
Who mentioned feelings?But trying to reach God by following the rabbit trails of the deceived is futility.
He is so close to all men even in the centre of the worldly idolatrous cities like Athens.
Finding Him in dusty theological tomes and human religion is rather less likely.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 10 2009,07:08) Hi not3,
Who mentioned feelings?But trying to reach God by following the rabbit trails of the deceived is futility.
He is so close to all men even in the centre of the worldly idolatrous cities like Athens.
Finding Him in dusty theological tomes and human religion is rather less likely.
Can you have fellowship without feelings?Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 10 2009,05:50) Quote (Gene @ Sep. 10 2009,03:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 09 2009,18:40) Hi CA,
Why are you so frightened to learn from the Scriptures?
Nick…………good point. I would like to know that also.peace and love………….gene
I WAS “frightened” with my own weakness and inability to hear infallibly from God. But I am at great peace now. Praise the Lord!Why aren't you boys FRIGHTENED that you can't find one verse to support Sola Scriptura?
Why aren't you FRIGHTENED that you can't give one solid argument for why you believe in the Canon of Scripture you hold?
This is why I seldom respond to you jokers. When you want to get serious and get out of the sand box and be REAL MEN, let me know.
Hi CA,
Would a real man entrust his soul to the theologians of Rome?
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