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Quote (thethinker @ May 06 2009,04:17) Someone said: Quote True worshipers worship the Father.
The rest is madnessThen the angels are “mad” because they worship the Son. And God also is “mad” because He commands angels to worship the Son,
Quote Again, when He brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him” (Heb. 1:6)
The explanation that Gene and bodhitarta once gave for this verse is that it refers to the future. Okay, God and angels are not mad now but will be mad in the future. Can't you all see that Jesus EARNED the right to be worshiped? And you can't worship the Father without worshiping Jesus
Quote He humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore, God has highly exalted him and has given him a name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should BOW and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is LORD to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:9-10) .
Yes we are supposed to worship the Father. But Paul tells us HOW this is done. It is done by worshiping Jesus. So Paul is “mad” too.
thinker
Hi TT,
Is this the worship you think God shoulkd receive?
Bowing the knee in submission?Your god is far too small.
True worshipers worship the Father in spirit and in truththinker …….Brother, i think you may confusing worship with Submission. We can bow our knees to Jesus, but remember to say to the glory of GOD, The FATHER, So the submission is directed to the FATHER, You can't leave that part out. IMO
peace and love to you and yours brother…………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ May 08 2009,05:32) Nick………..I agree “true worshipers worship the FATHER, the rest is madness” . Jesus is our example of what we need to do and how we need to think, in order to have a right relationship with the FATHER as HE Has. IMO peace and love………………gene
Gene,
Then the angels are “mad” because they worship the Son. And God is “mad” too because He commanded angels to worship the Son (Heb. 1). Not only is God “mad” because He commanded the angels to worship the Son, but he is really, really, really “mad” because He Himself addressed the Son as “God” (Heb. 1). So heaven is a really “mad” place
Do you want to go to a “mad” place after you die?thinker
Quote (Gene @ May 08 2009,14:04) thinker …….Brother, i think you may confusing worship with Submission. We can bow our knees to Jesus, but remember to say to the glory of GOD, The FATHER, So the submission is directed to the FATHER, You can't leave that part out. IMO peace and love to you and yours brother…………………….gene
Gene,
Then God is confused too for He spoke to the Son calling him “God” (Heb. 1:8). Your God is confused bro.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 22 2009,07:59) Quote (Gene @ May 08 2009,14:04) thinker …….Brother, i think you may confusing worship with Submission. We can bow our knees to Jesus, but remember to say to the glory of GOD, The FATHER, So the submission is directed to the FATHER, You can't leave that part out. IMO peace and love to you and yours brother…………………….gene
Gene,
Then God is confused too for He spoke to the Son calling him “God” (Heb. 1:8). Your God is confused bro.thinker
Actually, Heb 1:8 is part of a psalm and just remember God had called many people “gods” it is written in scripture “Ye are gods” God said this to the judges for whomever the word of God is given they are called as such as they are representing God.But notice how God says that you shall have no gods before Me and Jesus explains that the reason that is so, is because Our Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD according to Jesus Christ.
bodhitharta said:
Quote Actually, Heb 1:8 is part of a psalm and just remember God had called many people “gods” it is written in scripture “Ye are gods” God said this to the judges for whomever the word of God is given they are called as such as they are representing God. But notice how God says that you shall have no gods before Me and Jesus explains that the reason that is so, is because Our Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD according to Jesus Christ.
bd,
You are quite mistaken. The Psalm you are referring to is Psalm 82:6. The Psalm cited in Hebrews is Psalm 45:6-7 which says this,Quote Your throne O God, is forever and ever The whole point of the passage is that God has given Jesus a name that is so much BETTER than the angels. So how can the name “God” mean that Jesus is merely a “judge” on the same level with men? Come on! Take off your unitarian glasses and let the Word of God speak.
Yes, Jesus did address the Father as the “only true God.” But He said this BEFORE He was exalted. After His exaltation Jesus is called “God” by the Father. You guys must learn to distinguish between the pre-exalted Jesus and the exalted Jesus. A little applied common sense goes a long way.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 23 2009,03:16) bodhitharta said: Quote Actually, Heb 1:8 is part of a psalm and just remember God had called many people “gods” it is written in scripture “Ye are gods” God said this to the judges for whomever the word of God is given they are called as such as they are representing God. But notice how God says that you shall have no gods before Me and Jesus explains that the reason that is so, is because Our Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD according to Jesus Christ.
bd,
You are quite mistaken. The Psalm you are referring to is Psalm 82:6. The Psalm cited in Hebrews is Psalm 45:6-7 which says this,Quote Your throne O God, is forever and ever The whole point of the passage is that God has given Jesus a name that is so much BETTER than the angels. So how can the name “God” mean that Jesus is merely a “judge” on the same level with men? Come on! Take off your unitarian glasses and let the Word of God speak.
Yes, Jesus did address the Father as the “only true God.” But He said this BEFORE He was exalted. After His exaltation Jesus is called “God” by the Father. You guys must learn to distinguish between the pre-exalted Jesus and the exalted Jesus. A little applied common sense goes a long way.
thinker
Psalm 82:6 (New King James Version)6 I said, “You are gods,[a]
And all of you are children of the Most High.Psalm 45
1My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.2Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.
3Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
4And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
5Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
6Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Still this psalm was about a current King and while yes it can apply to Jesus it does not mean he is God any more than the king it originally applied to who was “Anointed above thy fellows”
If you take a part of a psalms shouldn't you consider the entire psalm?
bodhitharta wrote:
Quote Psalm 45
1My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.2Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.
3Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
4And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
5Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
6Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Still this psalm was about a current King and while yes it can apply to Jesus it does not mean he is God any more than the king it originally applied to who was “Anointed above thy fellows”
If you take a part of a psalms shouldn't you consider the entire psalm?
bd,
When you get to heaven you need to tell the author to the Hebrews to “consider the entire psalm.” Hebrews does NOT apply the entire psalm to Christ. It applies only verses 6-7 in the context of Christ's exaltation to God's right hand. Was the current king in the Psalm exalted to God's right hand. No! Was the current king given a name that is above the angels? No! The current king called Christ his “Lord”,Quote YHWH said to my Lord, sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Ps. 110) Again, the author to the Hebrews applied verses 6-7 in the context of Christ's exaltation to the Father's right hand. It says that the name He has is “so much BETTER than the angels”. This infers that Christ's name is superior to the “current king”. That name is “begotten Son, “firstborn” and “God”.
This is one of the major flaws of unitarians. They don't allow the new testament to interpret the old.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 23 2009,10:48) bodhitharta wrote: Quote Psalm 45
1My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.2Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.
3Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
4And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
5Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
6Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Still this psalm was about a current King and while yes it can apply to Jesus it does not mean he is God any more than the king it originally applied to who was “Anointed above thy fellows”
If you take a part of a psalms shouldn't you consider the entire psalm?
bd,
When you get to heaven you need to tell the author to the Hebrews to “consider the entire psalm.” Hebrews does NOT apply the entire psalm to Christ. It applies only verses 6-7 in the context of Christ's exaltation to God's right hand. Was the current king in the Psalm exalted to God's right hand. No! Was the current king given a name that is above the angels? No! The current king called Christ his “Lord”,Quote YHWH said to my Lord, sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Ps. 110) Again, the author to the Hebrews applied verses 6-7 in the context of Christ's exaltation to the Father's right hand. It says that the name He has is “so much BETTER than the angels”. This infers that Christ's name is superior to the “current king”. That name is “begotten Son, “firstborn” and “God”.
This is one of the major flaws of unitarians. They don't allow the new testament to interpret the old.
thinker
Psalm 110 (King James Version)Psalm 110
1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.2The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
6He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
Has this occured?
bodhitharta wrote”
Quote Psalm 110 (King James Version) Psalm 110
1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.2The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
5The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
6He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
Has this occured?
bd,
You do deny new testament teaching after all.thinker
Thinker ……….The problem here is understanding what the (WORD) GOD MEANS (ELOHIM) or POWERS it is not a person it is an attribute of a Person, The LORD (yah) (HE EXISTS), put it together LORD GOD. or He EXISTS WITH POWERS. Anyone give authority by the LORD GOD is considered a GOD , as in the case of Moses, and the psalm you were quoting , the elders were siting in the sit of authority and were suppose to represent GOD to the People so they were considered gods or (POWERS), Jesus understood that, that is why he quoted it. IMO
peace and love…………………gene
Quote (Gene @ May 25 2009,13:35) Thinker ……….The problem here is understanding what the (WORD) GOD MEANS (ELOHIM) or POWERS it is not a person it is an attribute of a Person, The LORD (yah) (HE EXISTS), put it together LORD GOD. or He EXISTS WITH POWERS. Anyone give authority by the LORD GOD is considered a GOD , as in the case of Moses, and the psalm you were quoting , the elders were siting in the sit of authority and were suppose to represent GOD to the People so they were considered gods or (POWERS), Jesus understood that, that is why he quoted it. IMO peace and love…………………gene
Yes! You are correct!Quote (bodhitharta @ May 25 2009,13:57) Quote (Gene @ May 25 2009,13:35) Thinker ……….The problem here is understanding what the (WORD) GOD MEANS (ELOHIM) or POWERS it is not a person it is an attribute of a Person, The LORD (yah) (HE EXISTS), put it together LORD GOD. or He EXISTS WITH POWERS. Anyone give authority by the LORD GOD is considered a GOD , as in the case of Moses, and the psalm you were quoting , the elders were siting in the sit of authority and were suppose to represent GOD to the People so they were considered gods or (POWERS), Jesus understood that, that is why he quoted it. IMO peace and love…………………gene
Yes! You are correct!
bd,
You should think it through before concurring with Gene. He believes that the Elohim “powers” are not personal. Other Unitarians on this board think it is nonsense as do I.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 25 2009,15:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 25 2009,13:57) Quote (Gene @ May 25 2009,13:35) Thinker ……….The problem here is understanding what the (WORD) GOD MEANS (ELOHIM) or POWERS it is not a person it is an attribute of a Person, The LORD (yah) (HE EXISTS), put it together LORD GOD. or He EXISTS WITH POWERS. Anyone give authority by the LORD GOD is considered a GOD , as in the case of Moses, and the psalm you were quoting , the elders were siting in the sit of authority and were suppose to represent GOD to the People so they were considered gods or (POWERS), Jesus understood that, that is why he quoted it. IMO peace and love…………………gene
Yes! You are correct!
bd,
You should think it through before concurring with Gene. He believes that the Elohim “powers” are not personal. Other Unitarians on this board think it is nonsense as do I.thinker
God is the title of the supreme Most High being, just like Christ is the title of anointed one. Christ is not his last name like “Jesus Christ”God says that He is The only self-existing One, You can say Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah, The creator these are all attributes or titles in various tongues but God is not a formal name.
bodhitharta said:
Quote God says that He is The only self-existing One, You can say Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah, The creator these are all attributes or titles in various tongues but God is not a formal name. The Father says that Jesus is also self-existent,
Quote For as the Father has life in Himself , so He has attributed to the Son to have life in Himself (John 5:26) You should build your theology on the whole counsel of God rather than on a few select Scriptures out of context.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 25 2009,15:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 25 2009,13:57) Quote (Gene @ May 25 2009,13:35) Thinker ……….The problem here is understanding what the (WORD) GOD MEANS (ELOHIM) or POWERS it is not a person it is an attribute of a Person, The LORD (yah) (HE EXISTS), put it together LORD GOD. or He EXISTS WITH POWERS. Anyone give authority by the LORD GOD is considered a GOD , as in the case of Moses, and the psalm you were quoting , the elders were siting in the sit of authority and were suppose to represent GOD to the People so they were considered gods or (POWERS), Jesus understood that, that is why he quoted it. IMO peace and love…………………gene
Yes! You are correct!
bd,
You should think it through before concurring with Gene. He believes that the Elohim “powers” are not personal. Other Unitarians on this board think it is nonsense as do I.thinker
thinker………Where in this do you see i say that GOD is not Personal , Because i said the WORDS ELOHIM does not mean a Person but is an attribute of a PERSON does not mean it is not personal. You have misunderstood what i posted. IMOpeace and love…………………gene
Gene said:
Quote thinker………Where in this do you see i say that GOD is not Personal , Because i said the WORDS ELOHIM does not mean a Person but is an attribute of a PERSON does not mean it is not personal. You have misunderstood what i posted. IMO Gene,
The expressions “not a person” and “not-personal” are the same thing. If there is a difference between the two terms then explain it. Now come on! Even a lot of anti-trinitarians here are confused by your commentaries (except for bodhitharta who is your little “amen” support).thinker
Quote (thethinker @ May 27 2009,02:02) bodhitharta said: Quote God says that He is The only self-existing One, You can say Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah, The creator these are all attributes or titles in various tongues but God is not a formal name. The Father says that Jesus is also self-existent,
Quote For as the Father has life in Himself , so He has attributed to the Son to have life in Himself (John 5:26) You should build your theology on the whole counsel of God rather than on a few select Scriptures out of context.
thinker
The scripture says The Father gave Jesus life in himself. Tell me who attributed life in The Father?Quote (thethinker @ May 27 2009,02:20) Gene said: Quote thinker………Where in this do you see i say that GOD is not Personal , Because i said the WORDS ELOHIM does not mean a Person but is an attribute of a PERSON does not mean it is not personal. You have misunderstood what i posted. IMO Gene,
The expressions “not a person” and “not-personal” are the same thing. If there is a difference between the two terms then explain it. Now come on! Even a lot of anti-trinitarians here are confused by your commentaries (except for bodhitharta who is your little “amen” support).thinker
You believe that God is 3 persons, right?Ironically if God consists of 3 persons He would not be personal either He would be interpersonal
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